Competitors. How much do the tiny details matter?

[pygmalion]

Things like manicures and pedicures and fake eyelashes. Do they really make a difference in terms of how well you're judged in competition? And is the answer different in collegiate, amateur, pro-am, or pro competition?

[mamboqueen]

I've asked various people about this, including judges, and their response is usually along the lines of.....all things being equal between two competitors, if there is one that looks like they put greater effort into their appearance will get the edge.

[Laura]

It's needed for all levels, and the attention to detail becomes more and more important the higher you rise. Like, no one expects a newcomer college student to get it all right the first time, but if a Pro has a bobby pin out of place she'll hear about it (I have this bit of info first-hand from a multi-time National finalist).

[robin]

I don't think it matters very much as long as there is enough differentiation in the dancing. I've seen competitions where a couple turned up without full competition dress, ie. wearing a shirt and tie / skirt and top and still beat all the other dancers wearing full competitive dress, just because they were actually better.

There are a lot of different levels in dancing, and if you are a level above someone else it will show through, even with messy hair, pale skin and an old dress.

As mamboqueen said, "all things being equal" the details might make the difference in the overall impression. But all things are very rarely equal. If you put Chris and Hazel in a sack, gave them crazy multi-coloured make up and died their hair blue, they'd still be marked first against everyone in the world apart from the top 5 or so... and even then they'd have a good chance...

So details improve your chances if it's close, especially in early rounds where it's about creating an instant impression, but in the end they probably don't make that much difference...

Robin

[tasche]

Well imho you dont want to give them any excuse to mark you down. Unless you 100 times better than the competition and in which case you might have to reconsider the level you dancing in. I notice everything and I'm a judge and tend to sit waaay up the back so I can talk smack about everyone :D

[Victoria]

Well imho you dont want to give them any excuse to mark you down. Unless you 100 times better than the competition and in which case you might have to reconsider the level you dancing in. I notice everything and I'm a judge and tend to sit waaay up the back so I can talk smack about everyone :D

I so agree with this - far better to have everything perfect as possible - then you know it's your dancing that is being marked. Though you will never convince everybody with your look - everybody has different likes and dislikes, but if you are well turned out that should make you feel better too - less to worry about, less what if's!

[pygmalion]

Exactly. Your grooming should never become an issue. That way, the focus is on your dancing, good or bad.

[dave_aw]

I think grooming is particular important if you are dancing in an enormous competition with crowded heats. The less time the judges have to look at you, the more the first impressions count. I've seen one couple at blackpool make one or two more rounds than they would probably have done otherwise just because they wore fairly outrageous loud purple heavily stoned matching costumes - it did the job!

Trouble is when people spend their time doing lots of small competitions where they are mostly semis and finals then they put all their energy in to improving dresses and tweaking routines and they forget to go back to fundementals - they're often the cynical and bitter ones who start thinking the judges are corrupt, I think.

[ShyDancer]

I think it must be important,
I got comments on my grooming and presentation in my exams! Although had my teacher not warned me it was an issue I would not have even considered it! So even at the most basic of dance levels the appearance counts.
I think my appearance played a part in my exams recently.. the examiners notice my skirt change and commented on it......quite a thing to notice when you are examining 200 odd people!

[chocolatchica]

I had that same question! I have the other stuff but not the nails because they are hard to keep up with fills and what not and all my money goes to lessons and my son. So when I have som extra money sould I go and get them done??? Any suggestions?

[swan]

For nails, here's my take - for standard competitors, you don't need long nails. I file them myself & put barely one coat of something on it so that at least I look like I've got manicure :) Pick some color that's not so obvious - meaning don't pick vibrant color that'll show that you've done a poor job on your nails (like me :)) I pick those pastel but shiny (w/ glitter on it) ones.

Another option is fake nails - you can glue them on yourself & it's pre-painted (color choices are limited).

Latin, you definitely need better looking nails as there's so much arm/hand work that'll be shown. I guess if you don't have time go for the fake nails.

[Anna]

I use drug store glue-on fake nails for latin, but I've been wondering if it's really worth it since it does add about $5 per competition...I could pay for my share of an extra private lesson each year for what that adds up too!

But all these little things help me get in the competition mindset, too, so they could help more than just appearance.

[ChaChaMama]

I think it doesn't matter nearly as much on the syllabus amateur level as it does in either pro-am or the higher level amateur competitions. In fact, I think it is quite rare to see tanning, fake nails, fake eyelashes, and over-the-top make-up in prebronze, bronze, silver...or really even gold amateur events. (People do wear make-up, of course, but not as much as you see at higher levels.) I think of the people I saw dancing in bronze and silver at MAC, Northeast Regionals, Philly, and Yankee Classic this year. I don't remember a single person who looked like they fake-baked. I will also say that the winner of the silver amateur at the Yankee Classic had her hair in a loose ponytail/bun arrangement and the second place woman had a ponytail.

Pro-am is totally different, in my view. In pro-am, even on the newcomer level, many people do their hair, makeup, and tan as if they were professionals.

By the way, at the Yankee Classic Sunday afternoon, I was sitting next to a non-dancer (business traveler) who happened to be staying at the hotel and was interested enough to pop in. She found it interesting, but

A) She couldn't believe admission was $30. (She only wanted to watch for one hour.)
B) She thought that the tans looked orange-y, fake, and excessive,
C) she thought that the make-up was excessive, especially on the J and PT competitors.

That's not to say she was right. I'm just reporting her observations. She did think the dancing was amazing, and she was especially impressed by the boys, given how many fewer American boys dance.

ChaChaMama

[Chris Stratton]

But all these little things help me get in the competition mindset, too, so they could help more than just appearance.

That's one of my complaints with the move to extremely restrictive syllabus dresscodes - optional little things don't make a big cost difference, and no results difference, but they're fun and add to the sense of doing the whole ballroom thing. Wheras if they are only allowed in the open divisions, that encourages racing through syllabus to get to the fun stuff - and incidentally skipping little things in the dancing that do matter. The devleopmental divisions shouldn't feel restricted halfway dancing - they should be "real" only with the emphasis on developing skills.

Was also thinking about business suit or tuxedo length jackets vs tails - and finally realized that they reason they just don't work on anyone, even when made by the best tailors and worn by perfectly slim blackpool champs, there's just too much leg division today for a coat cut that long in front not to pull and wrinkle. Of course one doesn't have to wear a jacket at all in order to get rid of the baggy shirt look - a cardigan works nicely.

[tanya_the_dancer]

I've asked various people about this, including judges, and their response is usually along the lines of.....all things being equal between two competitors, if there is one that looks like they put greater effort into their appearance will get the edge.
That's what I heard too. So my thought is, why do (or not do) something which will make you stand out in the bad way (am I making sense here)?

[yanka]

Latin, you definitely need better looking nails as there's so much arm/hand work that'll be shown. I guess if you don't have time go for the fake nails.
I used fake nails once and didn't like it one bit (both during the comp and afterwards, when I realized how badly it damaged my real nails). Nowadays, I just make sure to start caring for my nails (strengthening/growing them out) a couple weeks before a comp, and they look fine (at least for someone at my level). This way, I'm used to the length by the time of the comp, and my nails are kept healthy.

If it ever becomes an issue . . . gloves :-D

[LXC]

Yes, the importance of grooming increases with proficiency level. I danced through syllabus without a clue on makeup and hair. It was not until my first competition in novice and a friend commented to our coach how I looked all washed out that I started paying attention to grooming, not because I'm afraid of losing marks but I want to look my best on the floor:)

I use false eyelashes because it seems to me essential to stage makeup. But I don't do nails. I don't have time and I don't want to spend the money. I don't ever notice how people are doing their nails so I figure it's not the first thing judges or audience notice either.

When I first learned to do the makeup, I hated it because it added a lot of stress on the day of the comp. Now I have a better handle on the basics, it is fun.

[RIdancer82]

If it ever becomes an issue . . . gloves :-D

That was my thought exactly when deciding to pair gloves w/ my new latin costume this past spring. Makes the nail thing sooooo much easier. Plus, you can "feel" your hand and fingers better, which makes you more aware of them.

[fascination]

I wont spend money on nails...until comp time...then I do it for myself and the psychological aspect...I really doubt it matters much to anyone else, but I feel more confident knowing that from head to toe I am in top form

[yanka]

That was my thought exactly when deciding to pair gloves w/ my new latin costume this past spring. Makes the nail thing sooooo much easier. Plus, you can "feel" your hand and fingers better, which makes you more aware of them.
:)

totally.

[fascination]

That's what I heard too. So my thought is, why do (or not do) something which will make you stand out in the bad way (am I making sense here)?yep...I will again repeat that the last coach I had came in two months after a comp he judged that I was at and the first thing he said was, "you have beautiful dresses"...he also said "you danced well" (thank goodness), but I was stunned that he even bothered to mention my gowns...and he really doesn't strike me as the "smoke blowing type"...quite the opposite in fact

[tanya_the_dancer]

yep...I will again repeat that the last coach I had came in two months after a comp he judged that I was at and the first thing he said was, "you have beautiful dresses"...he also said "you danced well" (thank goodness), but I was stunned that he even bothered to mention my gowns...and he really doesn't strike me as the "smoke blowing type"...quite the opposite in fact

Interesting, I was told similar thing - the coach who judged the competition I was in remembered my dress. He said it made me stand out.

[waltzgirl]

I love fake nails from the drugstore. I used them for the first time for a showcase recently, and they were so great I'm wearing them all the time now! I got a box of 100 nails of diffeent sizes for about $5. I do modify them, though. I file the sides if necessary so they fit my nails well. After they're on, I trim and file them the same shape as I would my own nails and paint them any color I like. They are indestructable and the polish--even cheap polish--never chips! I've worn them as long as three weeks and then only needed to change them because they were growing out.

True story: I was having a pedicure recently and the manicurist complimented me on my fingernails. She didn't know they were fake until I told her! (I've known her for years, so I know she wasn't just blowing smoke.)

Hints: I prefer the glue that comes with a brush to apply. It's easier to control how much goes on.

If you get glue on your fingers and it dries, rubbing with a gentle emery board will get it off.

I can remove them easily by flipping them off from the side, especially if I've been wearing them a while and the glue has weakened a bit. Took me a while to figure out that I should keep one nail on each hand until I've gotten all the others off, so I only have to use my real nails to flip off the last one. Nail polish remover and a gentle emery board gets the rest of the glue off the nails.

I could never justify getting acrylics (one appointment=1/2 dance lesson, and 2 hours I could be practicing), but the drugstore fakes are the best thing since sliced bread!

[SuzieQ]

I have awful nails--I've wasted time and money on hardeners, strengtheners, vitamins, you name it. I usually use fake nails for comps because mine look terrible if I just put some nail polish on them. I've been using the Broadway brand of "everyday" nails because they're not as long as the others and I can wear them to work and play the piano. I leave them on for as long as I can afterward--actually should use them more for everyday--they sure look better!

[Joe]

That was my thought exactly when deciding to pair gloves w/ my new latin costume this past spring. Makes the nail thing sooooo much easier. Plus, you can "feel" your hand and fingers better, which makes you more aware of them.
Actually, gloves make it harder for your partner to dance with you. Unless they're rubber gloves. It's harder to maintain contact/grip with your hand.

[redhead]

oh. I was considering gloves for Latin... I guess not.
Thanks Joe

[yanka]

Actually, gloves make it harder for your partner to dance with you. Unless they're rubber gloves. It's harder to maintain contact/grip with your hand.
Satin gloves, yes. Some form of mesh/lace/other non-smooth material...not that bad.

[musicchica86]

Another option I just thought about to cut down costs of manicures/fake nails--go to your local cosmetology school, they always do them for much cheaper and a lot of the time, they're just as good.

[redhead]

I dunno. I've tried manicure at a salon several times, and only once did they do better job than myself.
For comps, if my natural nails brake, I get fake ones at Ulta and use just enough glue so they don't fall off for several hours, and then rip them off (just can't stand the feel of fake nails, although they look fine unless one looks up close). That is, if I have time for that right before the comp... after hair and makeup is done.

[alemana]

rhythm dancer here - can't dance in fake nails or gloves. connection to partner tenuous enough as it is.

also, i don't want to risk poking him in any bodypart. (he recently was poked hard in the EYE during a comp by his pro partner, who was sporting some very long fake nails. i don't think he'd be as forgiving with me if i did that to him, so i stay away from that stuff.)

[Anna]

The only problem I have with drug store nails is that I have to get my partner to buckle and unbuckle my shoes, and it's almost impossible to put on fishnets without losing a couple. (and at college comps there is usually hardly time to change clothes between smooth/standard and latin/rhythm, so taking time to put nails on after standard is out of the question)

[skwiggy]

My old partner told me a horror story of when his previous partner used to wear long fake nails. Once while leading her at the end of a turn her nail got caught on his pocket, and came off. Apparently it was ugly and painful. After that, anytime he so much as grazed anything with my hand he would freak out and check to make sure he hadn't caused me some sort of hideous injury.

On the gloves--if you really want to wear them, why not try them out during a practice to see for yourself how much they interfere with the connection? I agree it probably depends somewhat on the fabric type and thickness.

[bailarín]

I agree that all glove situations are not bad. You can be slippery when bare-handed and sweaty also (or should I say - perspire?!). Please consider these two aspects - how you make your connection, and when you do try the gloves during practice, work with them long enough to simulate your competition conditions.

[yanka]

I agree that all glove situations are not bad. You can be slippery when bare-handed and sweaty also (or should I say - perspire?!). Please consider these two aspects - how you make your connection, and when you do try the gloves during practice, work with them long enough to simulate your competition conditions.
Agreed. In general, I think it's wise to run all new costumes through a practice session before you go out and compete in them. You just never know...

[redhead]

Agreed. In general, I think it's wise to run all new costumes through a practice session before you go out and compete in them. You just never know...
even if you did you never know lol, but odds are better

[yanka]

even if you did you never know lol, but odds are better
;)
yes, that's what I meant.

[Joe]

Satin gloves, yes. Some form of mesh/lace/other non-smooth material...not that bad.
Nope. I've done the stretch illusion gloves before and they are the same way. Now, if you were to rubberize them somehow...

[redhead]

Nope. I've done the stretch illusion gloves before and they are the same way. Now, if you were to rubberize them somehow...
hmm... decorate surgical gloves?

[fire_dancer]

ooh, swarovski surgical gloves.

Anyone think there could be a market for those? *gets out glue, stones.... waits patiently....*

[redhead]

why, those things are awesome! I don't know if they come in black or red though... May need to be painted first :)

[tanya_the_dancer]

Satin gloves, yes. Some form of mesh/lace/other non-smooth material...not that bad.
At Chicago Crystal Ball one Latin pro couple had a dress with built-in gloves covering entire arm (the best comparison I can come up with is onesie with a skirt, but for arms only).

[yanka]

At Chicago Crystal Ball one Latin pro couple had a dress with built-in gloves covering entire arm (the best comparison I can come up with is onesie with a skirt, but for arms only).
Yes, I've worn a costume like that (long sleeved with gloves built in), and the material wasn't slippery. Also, it was a pretty tight fit, so the material on the hands/wrists didn't really move at all. And in wost-case scenario, my partner could always just grab onto the glove and I'd have to follow along :-D

[fire_dancer]

lol.... *mental picture of yanka's partner dragging her around the floor by an empty glove attached to her costume*

[yanka]

lol.... *mental picture of yanka's partner dragging her around the floor by an empty glove attached to her costume*
rofl! Although, I gotta say - with a costume like that, you're kind of stuck...