Giggling during dancing

[RoyHarper]

This is a little thing, I know. Please don't think that I'm trying to make a federal case out of this, since I'm not. I recognize that this is a relatively minor thing, and I'd prefer to treat it as such. Still, I do feel that I'd like to put this sentiment into words, and I hope that nobody will begrudge me that.

I've found that a good number of follows -- not the majority, but a few of them -- tend to giggle a lot when I try to lead them through moves that they're not expecting or with which they're unfamiliar. Again, I don't want to be misunderstood. I know that there's a learning curve involved, and that some are less experienced that others. I also know that some of them are nervous, and that sometimes we need to simplify the moves so that the follows can keep up.

However, it does bug me a little when people tend to giggle when they don't quite get a move. The majority don't have this problem; in fact, I've found that most dancers (beginners or otherwise) will simply try again, or perhaps say something like, "I'm not doing this right," or "I don't know what I'm supposed to do." A few of them tend to erupt into fits of (presumably nervous) giggling though, and while I can understand their trepidation, I'll admit that the giggling does bother me somewhat.

One problem is that the giggling tends to disrupt the timing and flow of the dance. It's difficult to recover smoothly from a failed move when one partner is still engaged in nervous laughter. Again, I understand that mistakes will happen and that some folks will tend to have less composure than others. Still, it's frustrating when one has to come to an abrupt halt or make an awkward transition because one's partner has a case of the gurgles.

Of greater concern, I think, is the matter of consideration toward one's partner. If you're giggling or laughing, then it may not always be clear what you're giggling or laughing about. One's partner might think that you're laughing at them, rather than simply having a nervous response. This is particularly true when one's partner is a relative beginner, or perhaps even an intermediate-level dancer. Personally, I'd want to avoid that at all costs.

Ultimately, it's a matter of going with the flow. Some people will tend to giggle when they're nervous, and I accept that. Ultimately though, I think it's just the sort of thing we should try to control. In other words, relax, do one's best, and just keep going if one makes a mistake. It makes the dance smoother, it makes learning a lot easier, and it's more considerate to one's partner as well.

[fascination]

I see your point...but I also think others will disagree...nervous tension and a person's response to it is often difficult to curb...bizarre as it may seem, my husband used to laugh at funerals when he was young.......I was horrified...likewise there are folks who, when they see someone taking the dancing process too seriously try to inject some levity into it...it is incumbant on everyone to anticipate the other person in kindness...it's fair to vent here...but I am not certain that it will get you much beyond an opportunity to do just that..which is welcome here

[pygmalion]

Hmm.

I see both sides. Yours: giggling can be unnerving and can throw off your flow, especially if you're thinking about what moves to do next, etc. Hers: Nerves are nerves, and she may not have control of whether or not she giggles.

Hmm. Question (fully aware that you didn't ask for a solution, so I may be off base, here) Have you considered disarming the gigglers with a little humor of your own? "Wow. That didn't go quite the way we expected huh?" Add a wink and a smile, and you've made it okay for her to giggle, maybe diffused some of her nerves, then both of you can get back to dancing.

Just a thought. *shrug*

[nucat78]

I see your point...but I also think others will disagree...nervous tension and a person's response to it is often difficult to curb...bizarre as it may seem, my husband used to laugh at funerals when he was young.......I was horrified...

GS1 (3 years old) was at the altar with other kids and a priest last Christmas Eve for the kids' sermon. The priest (who we suspect was drunk, BTW) kept talking about people dying. GS1 thought it was hilarious - DD had to bring him back to our pew halfway through.

<BOT> Meh. I'd just laugh back. It's just nervous tension. I see OP's point, but better the giggles and some slack than either lead or follow storming off in a huff, no?

[Wannabee]

I'll try to offer my best attempt at explaining the other side of the coin, since I ALWAYS giggle when I dance, whether it is going well or going very very wrong. I can't control it, it just happens that way.

I am a generally happy person, and at no time is that more the case than when I am fortunate enough to be dancing. I smile.... ALOT! And giggling is not far behind. Dancing is by nature already a bit awkward, as I never get that close to anyone but my husband outside of the dancefloor, and with complete strangers at times, it just adds to the oddness of dancing. If you and I were to dance together, I can assure you 100% that I would definitely giggle, but only to alleviate my tension of being in the arms of a stranger. Add to that the fact that I'm a newbie at dancing in general, and we have a whole new can of worms. So I have 2 reasons to giggle now: 1. I am being held closely by a man I barely know (except that he enjoys dancing)...*giggle* and 2. I have no idea what I am doing but I'm having so much fun... *giggle*.

I can dance and move my feet along with the music in time while I giggle, so it rarely interrupts the dancing itself. And I do try to offer a quick "I'm sorry, I missed your lead right there." *giggle*. "I'm gonna have to give my instructor a stern talking to about that cuz I know it's not my lack of skill." *giggle*

I will do my best to let you know that I'm certainly not giggling about you or your leading or your shirt, etc. etc. But I can't stop giggling, unless I'm not having any fun. And at that point, you wouldn't want to dance with me anyway.

So giggling is not always a bad thing. It's when I stop giggling that one should worry. But if I knew it made you uncomfortable, I would do my best to just smile only and not giggle ;)

[RoyHarper]

You're all absolutely correct, which is why I said that it's not a huge deal. It's frustrating, but not worth making a federal case over.

The way I see it, a few giggles is tolerable, though not ideal. It's a disruption, but a relatively mild one. It's not strictly courteous (and for reasons that I gave earlier, should be avoided0, but it's not a deliberate offense either. Frequent giggling can get to be irritating though, at least in my experience.

So yeah, I understand that some people will tend to giggle more than others, and we have to accept that. The occasional chortle is understandable. At the same time though, I think it's the sort of thing that people usually keep under control -- and indeed, that grown adults generally learn how to do. Most people know better than to giggle uncontrollably when taking a college exam, for example, or when learning how to drive for the first time. Those are the sorts of situations that can make one nervous as well, yet people know that it's best to avoid doing so. (Heck, I can imagine a good number of church sermons that would make people nervous too, yet I think we'd all understand the need to strive for composure in such a situation.)

fascination, you mentioned that your husband used to giggle at funerals. I think we can all agree that this is inappropriate, and that grown adults should really learn to curb those impulses. You're right though -- it's not always easy, and I'm sure that your husband felt the same way.

[RoyHarper]

Hmm. Question (fully aware that you didn't ask for a solution, so I may be off base, here) Have you considered disarming the gigglers with a little humor of your own? "Wow. That didn't go quite the way we expected huh?" Add a wink and a smile, and you've made it okay for her to giggle, maybe diffused some of her nerves, then both of you can get back to dancing.

Just a thought. *shrug*

I think it's a pretty good solution, and I'm pretty sure that I've used similar tactics before. I guess it would depend on how capable the follow is when it comes to getting back on track. If it's a minor misstep, if she's really trying, and if she has an easygoing demeanor, then I can see that tactic working well. If she's overly nervous though, and if the giggling is throwing her timing off really badly, then I would probably just deal with it and wait for the dance to end.

A similar situation occurs with one of the semi-regulars at our local swing dances. She has this bad habit of letting out a loud YELP! whenever I lead her through an unfamiliar move, or sometimes even basic moves that she's not expecting. (In other words, she's anticipating too much, which means that she's constantly getting surprised -- and vocalizing that surprise loudly.) This disrupts the flow of the dance and takes most of the fun way. What's more, that kind of loud yelping tends to make other dancers look in your direction -- and not in a good way.

So eventually, I just stopped dancing with her. Of course, if she were to ask me to dance, I would heartily accept and try to make the best of it. Ultimately though, I decided that dancing with her just wasn't any fun, and I wanted to spare myself the embarrassment of having people looking our way whenever she'd let loose with a cry of surprise.

[RoyHarper]

<BOT> Meh. I'd just laugh back. It's just nervous tension. I see OP's point, but better the giggles and some slack than either lead or follow storming off in a huff, no?
Totally agreed on that point as well. I generally try to ignore or make light of the giggling, despite my frustration, and i try to diffuse the nervousness if possible. ("Think happy thoughts," I like to say with a smile when the music is bouncy and my partner is inexperienced.) When the giggling is truly out of hand though -- well, that's not very common, and in such situations, there's not a whole lot that one can do.

[toothlesstiger]

So, things didn't go as planned. Do you expect no reaction at all? Consider that they could very well think that any problems were their own fault, and a nervous giggle is a way of saying "oops". When I mess up dancing, I often laugh it off myself, to try diffuse any sense of blame my partner might feel.
Certainly, a giggle is better than a dirty look or rolling eyes. :rolleyes:

[RoyHarper]

So, things didn't go as planned. Do you expect no reaction at all? Consider that they could very well think that any problems were their own fault, and a nervous giggle is a way of saying "oops". When I mess up dancing, I often laugh it off myself, to try diffuse any sense of blame my partner might feel.
Certainly, a giggle is better than a dirty look or rolling eyes. :rolleyes:

I'm saying nothing of the sort, toothlesstiger. As I've said several times now, it truly is a minor matter and not a big deal. I certainly don't expect a complete lack of reaction. As I said in the OP, I've found that most people will make some sort of harmless comment. (A vocalized "Oops" would definitely fall into that category.)

I wholeheartedly agree that a giggle is better than a diry look or rolling one's eyes. However, it's not as though one is forced to choose between giggling or offering a hostile response. The best approach, as I said, is to react with composure, try to recover smoothly (as smoothly as one can, that is) and go with the flow. And conversely, if one's partner does lapse into giggling for whatever reason, try to deal with it as graciously as possible. That's what I try to do, even though I find that the giggling makes me self-conscious and tends to disrupt my transitions into subsequent moves.

You mentioned laughing off one's errors. Again, as I said, it's not always clear when a dancer is laughing at himself/herself or laughing at one's partner. This is especially true when it comes to giggling or other kinds of semi-suppressed laughter. That's one reason why I think it's best to avoid that. Of course, if one truly is laughing in a way that unambiguously says "Oops, I made a mistake. Let me shrug that off" -- and if one manages to do so in a way that doesn't bring the dance to an abrupt halt -- then that's another matter altogether.

[RoyHarper]

BTW, Wannabee, I do appreciate that you're trying to make the dance keep going smoothly. I also love the fact that you try to make it clear that you're not laughing at your partner, and that you're simply laughing off your errors. That's a great approach to take.

Laughter is a wonderful thing. A lot of people don't understand that it's important to reserve it for the proper context, though. For example, I'll never forget one lady who was laughing heartily when two of my friends were putting on a dance performance. She was chortling at a story that she had just finished sharing, but I couldn't help but cringe. What if the dancers thought that she was laughing at their performance? After all, they had no way of knowing that she was simply laughing at her own joke.

As a rule of thumb, I'd say that if we do giggle, snicker, or chortle during a dance, we should try to do so elegantly -- keeping the timing and footwork while we do so. We should also make it very clear that we're not laughing at our partner in any way. Sometimes, this will be obvious from the context, but at other times, it won't be. And if we are indeed laughing at our partner -- well, we shouldn't. Plain and simple.

[fascination]

perhaps...but again, deciding how to percieve it and deciding to give the benefit of the doubt is in everyone's best interest

[RoyHarper]

You'll get no argument from me on that final point, fascination. When I hear my partner snickering or otherwise making sounds of amusement, I do get self-conscious, and sometimes even annoyed. Still, I choose to give her the benefit of the doubt and assume that no mockery was intended. I'd rather that they didn't snicker at all -- at least not in any way that could imply an element of ridicule -- but I'd rather not assume that any sort of mockery is intended.

[Steve Pastor]

First of all, you need to check out the response I got from suggesting that a "follow" lighten up by using a giggle, etc.

http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=39121

Now a story.

When in Nepal, our group spent two hours in the company of a Nepalese couple. The wife spoke only Neplaese the entire time we were there. The entrance/exit to their lodge was a very very step set of stairs. As we slowly made our way down, one at a time, the wife said in "Bye bye, see you", or something similar.
I laughed out loud.

Now, I have had many people in the countries I've visited burst into laughter after I've said a complete sentence to them in by best Nepalese, Swahili, etc. (not so lucky with the French, I'm afraid)
At first this bothered me greatly, thinking I had made some sort of very stupid mistake, and I would get all embaressed. Eventually I came to realize that people were just reacting to something that was completely surprising to them, just as I had done to the woman in Namche Bazare.
Now, when someone erupts into laughter, I usually think, right on!
(and I HAVE had guides tell me that people are very pleased that I made an effort to learn to speak their language. I can still say, "I don't speak Norwegian very well!" )

Sometimes I laugh when I am dancing with someone. Sometimes they wonder if I am laughing at them. No, I'm not.

To me dancing is enjoyable. I have practiced diligantly to get as good as I am, and now I want to enjoy myself.

She has this bad habit of letting out a loud YELP! whenever I lead her through an unfamiliar move, or sometimes even basic moves that she's not expecting.


I had the pleasure of demonstrating an off the books West Coast Swing move with Sharlott Bott in a Skippy Blair intensive. Even though she sort of knew what was coming, she let out an exclamation. I am treasuring that moment because I was able to surprise someone who is at the highest level WCS.

I LIKE that kind of interaction with my parnters.

I think I have fair understanding of my limitations as a dancer in various styles, so giggling to me is a sign that someone is amused in some way or another. I can recognize that "I've had enough" look pretty easily, and I'd rather know what a partner is feeling/thinking than have them hide it.

Ultimately, it's a matter of going with the flow.
Again, to me, bottom line is that dancing should be fun (AT included!) on one level or another, not just fullfilling.
So, go with the flow and accept the giggling as a sign that you are entertaining your partner.

(Easier said than done, I know.)

[fascination]

You'll get no argument from me on that final point, fascination. When I hear my partner snickering or otherwise making sounds of amusement, I do get self-conscious, and sometimes even annoyed. Still, I choose to give her the benefit of the doubt and assume that no mockery was intended. I'd rather that they didn't snicker at all -- at least not in any way that could imply an element of ridicule -- but I'd rather not assume that any sort of mockery is intended.
and Roy, fwiw, speaking for myself....though I am not a giggler at all....when I do make some sort of vocalization while dancing it is generaly directed at my own inadequecies...and based upon my own observations of how women work, they aren't as likely to playfully harass or ridicule as men KWIM?...So, I do think that the vast majority of women who are doing what you are observing are reacting to their own percieved screw ups...with nervous attempts to laugh them off

[RoyHarper]

I'm not going to say that you're wrong, Steve. I do think, however, that your comments don't inherently contradict the points that I'm making. To wit,


Now, I have had many people in the countries I've visited burst into laughter after I've said a complete sentence to them in by best Nepalese, Swahili, etc. (not so lucky with the French, I'm afraid)

At first this bothered me greatly, thinking I had made some sort of very stupid mistake, and I would get all embaressed. Eventually I came to realize that people were just reacting to something that was completely surprising to them, just as I had done to the woman in Namche Bazare.

Now, when someone erupts into laughter, I usually think, right on!
Ah, but that wasn't immediately clear, was it? As you said, you initially thought that you were doing something horribly wrong. It's fortunate that you caught on, but other people might not have figured it out.

That's why I say that if we do find ourselves laughing, we should make it clear that we're not simply laughing at our partners, nor should we give them reason to suspect that we are.

Sometimes I laugh when I am dancing with someone. Sometimes they wonder if I am laughing at them. No, I'm not.

Again, I think that underscores my point. Sometimes they do wonder... hence the need to be careful. I've learned to give my partners the benefit of the doubt, but others might not -- and even I have occasional moments when I wonder.

To me dancing is enjoyable. I have practiced diligantly to get as good as I am, and now I want to enjoy myself.

I think we can all agree that we should try to enjoy ourselves. This cuts both ways. It means trying to help our partners enjoy themselves too -- whether by controlling one's chortling or by setting a nervous partner at ease.


I had the pleasure of demonstrating an off the books West Coast Swing move with Sharlott Bott in a Skippy Blair intensive. Even though she sort of knew what was coming, she let out an exclamation. I am treasuring that moment because I was able to surprise someone who is at the highest level WCS.
That's entirely different from the yelping that I was talking about, though. You're talking about a single instance of yelping that amounted to a pleasant surprise. I was talking about someone who constantly yelps throughout a dance because she's trying to anticipate moves and backlead, and who ruins the timing as a result.

Again, to me, bottom line is that dancing should be fun (AT included!) on one level or another, not just fullfilling.
So, go with the flow and accept the giggling as a sign that you are entertaining your partner.

The problem, I think, is that giggling is NOT always a sign that your partner is entertaining. It could meant that your partner looks ridiculous. Or it could mean that one is simply overcome with nerves. And so forth, and so on. It all boils down to what I've been saying -- trying to make our (presumably honest) intentions clear.

I remember one partner who brought our waltz to a screeching halt because she was overcome with laughter. She was doubled over and laughing uncontrollably, so I know this wasn't because she was simply having a good time. Fortunately, I was experienced enough to know that I was doing things correctly, and that she was simply too nervous to do the moves. However, I could imagine that a less self-assured lead might think, "Oh, no. She must think that I'm really, really bad at this."

[Steve Pastor]

I was experienced enough to know that I was doing things correctly, and that she was simply too nervous to do the moves. However, I could imagine that a less self-assured lead might think, "Oh, no. She must think that I'm really, really bad at this."

Did I mention my African dance class?
No?
Now, there's an instance where if I saw someone laughing I could probably guess that it's because I look truly dorky. But, when I see myself in the mirror, I'm almost always smiling, because it's so much fun. But then, we are all smiling!
So? I suck right now. But I'm going to get better because I'm going to keep doing it and work on it - doing my "homework". So, go ahead and laugh on.


Who we dance with is a mix of things, including to a large extent how WE react to someone else's behavior. But then, the way they behave towards us in the future depends on how we react to them in the present.

And it's not always about how well they dance, technically. (often not for me)

Should you be sensitive to someone else's feelings? Sure.
But if someone is so sensitive that you have to hide honest enjoyment.....

I'd sure say to someone who is just starting out to take their training seriously and practice seriously, but not worry so much about how people act regarding giggling, etc.

[RoyHarper]

Again, Steve, I don't think that your comments disprove the points that I'm making. As you yourself acknowledged, there are times when one might indeed look foolish -- hence my recommendation that we avoid giving our partners the impression that we might indeed be laughing at them.

NONE of this means that we need to "hide honest enjoyment." One can express one's enjoyment in all sorts of ways -- through a smile, an open compliment, or even by laughing in a manner that clearly convey's one's pleasure. I'm quite certain that I said nothing which suggests that someone should attempt to suppress all signs of pleasure or otherwise adopt a dour demeanor.

In fact, did I not repeatedly say that if we do find ourselves laughing, we can improve the situation by letting our partners know that they're not the object of our amusement? I think that's a pretty reasonable approach which makes things better for everyone concerned.

I do appreciate your recommendation that beginners should avoid worrying too much about how their partners might respond. To cite a previous phrase from this thread though, that's easier said than done. In fact, beginners are the ones who are least capable of discerning their partner's response.

As I've often said, it's a two-way street. We should avoid taking immediate offense, but we should also be careful not to inadvertently make our partner's feel self-conscious. Only a Grade-A lout would say, "I'm going to chortle if I feel like it, and my partner needs to assume that I'm just having a blast. If he doesn't understand that, then tough noogies."

[toothlesstiger]

Here's the main thing that bothers me about the concern with giggling. Laughter is a spontaneous expression of amusement and/or joy. A nervous giggle is an attempt to defuse an awkward circumstance. I'd much rather make an effort to suppress real snarkiness than to suppress a happy expression, because it could become a habit.

I think that if someone's first assumption is that people are laughing at them, there's a problem of self-confidence that needs to be addressed, and there is an assumption of hostility on the part of others.

Never have I had a sense, when a partner giggles, that is was anything other than a nervous giggle trying to make light of her perceived mistake. When a lady is inclined to blame me and let me know, giggling ain't how it's communicated. Eye-rolling, pained expressions, dirty looks, and out and out "You're doing it wrong!" I have experienced.

[danceronice]

I think you're obviously oversensitive about it because you think they are in fact laughing AT you, not with you.

Honestly, you cannot control every single exclamation and response because someone MIGHT misconstrue it. Especially in a situation like the woman laughing while people were dancing. If I'm at a competition and talking to someone while people are dancing, I'm not going to keep from laughing at something I'm talking about on the off chance someone on the floor will happen to be looking my way and will make the (rather self-absorbed) assumption I'm laughing at them.

People, as you say you realize (but don't actually seem to want to accept, as your response is consistently "I recognize that BUT...") laugh when they're nervous, surprised, happy, amused--it's not a reaction people can usually control any more than a yelp if they're surprised by something. I've seen people laugh dancing. I've seen people laugh when they get tossed off a horse (or when they narrowly avoid it). One of the most famous skating moments was Janet Lynn grinning when she fell on a sit spit and torpedoed any chance of winning the 1972 Olympics (and it was her laughing at a fall on an element she normally never missed that cemented her as an artistic-skating legend.) I've laughed in the middle of competitions. I've seen pros do it.

You can't make someone feel self-conscious if you're not trying. People aren't laughing and giggling AT you. They're not pointing and sneering. In fact they are probably not thinking that much about you beyond trying to follow your lead while thinking about their own dancing. They cannot be responsible for your feelings to the point they have to shut down spontaneous reactions on the off chance they might damage your ego.

[RoyHarper]

danceronice, I've consistently adopted a balanced approach here -- one wherein I advocate giving people the benefit of the doubt AND trying to avoid giving unintended offense.

With all due respect, you are incorrect to say that I refuse to recognize that people sometimes laugh because they're nervous. Quite the contrary; I *do* recognize that. I simply think that a certain amount of balance and self-control is advisable. Saying so does not, by any stretch of the imagination, amount to denying that people do giggle under such circumstances, or that some people have a harder time controlling it that other people do.

As I said, it's a two-way street, and it's all a matter of striving for some balance. Steve Pastor, whom I respect greatly, himself acknowledged that there were times when he was uncertain if people were laughing at him or not. A little bit of caution costs us nothing, and it makes things better for all parties concerned.

[wooh]

What DOI said... It really seems like there's quite a few men around here getting offended if the women aren't constantly flattering them. "Obviously she doesn't know there's a shortage of men.". "She sat down for 10 minutes." "She wasn't smiling.". "She smiled too much." Etc...
I think dancing turns us all into insecure teenagers. The trick is remembering that your 20,30,40,50+ years old, and give people the benefit of the doubt.

[Peaches]

Wow. Get a grip. Find a shred of self-confidence somewhere, and learn to give people the benefit of the doubt. I'm sorry, but there it is.

If dancing and having fun isn't an "appropriate" place to giggle or laugh, god only knows what is.

You're NOT being terribly open about this--women and others who have chimed in with valid reasons why they giggle (either voluntarily or otherwise) have been shot down because they need to consider your/their hypothetically insulted partner's feelings...more than their own. Yeah.

If it seriously throwing off your concentration (the way people trying to engage me in conversation to encourage me to relax does to me), then simply telling them that can go a long way. "I'm sorry, but when I lose concentration when you giggle, and I need all the concentration I can get right now. *SMILE*" works wonders.

[nucat78]

Eye-rolling, pained expressions, dirty looks, and out and out "You're doing it wrong!" I have experienced.

Yup. Been there.

I sometimes dance Argentine tango with a follow who shakes like a leaf. I'd have preferred giggles but then I decided she's just secretly in love with me and trembling with excitement. Everybody wins! ;)

[wooh]

So what if they are laughing at you! I looked ridiculous as a beginner. I prefer laughter to the horrified looks that I've seen some people get. If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen. I've made a complete fool of myself on many occasions. Ask the people here that have danced with me. Life went on.
I can choose to be offended, or I can choose to move on. I hear about all these "do not ask" lists. I've got pretty much two people on mine. A guy that was a total jerk to me on my first dance outing (stopped 30 seconds in, left me mid floor. I'd have been forgiving if he'd walked me off the floor.). And a guy that's plain creepy, and is a pro, so I feel no respoinsibility to be nice to him. There's guys here with lists 20 pages long of all the women that made various slights like nursing their bleeding toe instead of dancing with them. If you've got that many people being "rude" to you, then that's something going on with you, not them.
I been holding grudges for over 3 decades. But some of the guys here make me look like an amateur at grudge holding. If I have to be careful of every little thing I say or do while dancing with you for fear of offending your delicate ego, THAT is what makes you an unattractive dance partner, NOT your technique/repertoire/looks/hygiene.

[DerekWeb]

I like women who giggle. Its cute!

[toothlesstiger]

To put it another way, if a lady is so self-absorbed that she takes offense at my laughter, where none was intended, I'm probably going to think twice before asking her again. Or course, if I did intend offense, I'm probably not going to ask her again anyway. (For the humor-challenged, that was a joke. :-P)

[CANI]

This is a little thing, I know. Please don't think that I'm trying to make a federal case out of this, since I'm not. I recognize that this is a relatively minor thing, and I'd prefer to treat it as such. Still, I do feel that I'd like to put this sentiment into words, and I hope that nobody will begrudge me that.
Yes, fair enough -- I appreciate you putting this sentiment into words.

A few of them tend to erupt into fits of (presumably nervous) giggling though, and while I can understand their trepidation, I'll admit that the giggling does bother me somewhat.
In the past, I've tended to giggle quite a lot while dancing. The amount of giggling depending on a few things.

One problem is that the giggling tends to disrupt the timing and flow of the dance. It's difficult to recover smoothly from a failed move when one partner is still engaged in nervous laughter.
Again, I understand that mistakes will happen and that some folks will tend to have less composure than others. Still, it's frustrating when one has to come to an abrupt halt or make an awkward transition because one's partner has a case of the gurgles.

I definitely hear you. This was definitely me at times. Quite frankly, I looked back on it several months later and was pretty embarassed at how many times I did it -- sometimes flat out stopping moving because I was giggling so much. IMO, I was inconsiderate to my partner of the moment. I had accepted a dance, and I could have done a better job of keeping myself under a bit more control so there was a hope of the dance being enjoyable for both parties. As you presumed, some was nerves, some was other things -- but, in my case, I definitely think it fell in the category of something I am glad to now do differently.


Of greater concern, I think, is the matter of consideration toward one's partner. If you're giggling or laughing, then it may not always be clear what you're giggling or laughing about. One's partner might think that you're laughing at them, rather than simply having a nervous response. This is particularly true when one's partner is a relative beginner, or perhaps even an intermediate-level dancer. Personally, I'd want to avoid that at all costs. Yes, I hear you on this point -- especially as a very beginner dancer with lots of insecurities (and personal insecurities), I danced with anyone who asked, but have to admit -- without a doubt -- that I preferred dancing with the men who weren't laughing during the dance. My insecurities, yes, but still a good perspective to share.

Ultimately, it's a matter of going with the flow. Some people will tend to giggle when they're nervous, and I accept that. Ultimately though, I think it's just the sort of thing we should try to control. In other words, relax, do one's best, and just keep going if one makes a mistake. It makes the dance smoother, it makes learning a lot easier, and it's more considerate to one's partner as well.
Thanks for being accepting and giving the benefit of the doubt. And, thanks for raising this issue. One of the great things about dance forums -raising things that others may/may not have considered. I remember having a similar reaction when several women were complaining about how inconsiderate it was of men to lead picture lines in the middle of a crowded floor or something and that they would refuse to follow the men because it was so rude and so against dance etiquette -- who knew? Not me. Perhaps some of this stuff is obvious for others, but not always to me, so I value discussions such as this one that raise things for consideration as you have done. While I came to this particular realization on my own, I believe I would have come to a realization sooner had a read this post when it was the case for me. I still, at times, giggle, of course, but I've made changes that I feel better about, for me; changes that I think up the likelihood of the dance being enjoyable for both parties, based on some of the things you've mentioned. (That's not advocating that anyone else change -- if you love giggling the way you giggle -- have at it and enjoy.) And, I appreciate you framing it as a minor issue, so any gigglers out there reading this needn't feel bad, but rather can consider (or not) this perspective.

[debmc]

I have alot of fun at socials and part of that fun is always smiling when I am dancing and often giggling/laughing when a pattern is done that is really cool, or one that I can't get or if the partner that I'm dancing with at the time and I are just having a good time dancing together. I would never have guessed that someone would take it as anything else other than I am having a blast. I keep on dancing and don't miss a beat, but I may smile, laugh, giggle. Its a good thing! If I'm serious that probably means I am not having fun!

[freeageless]

I have alot of fun at socials and part of that fun is always smiling when I am dancing and often giggling/laughing when a pattern is done that is really cool, or one that I can't get or if the partner that I'm dancing with at the time and I are just having a good time dancing together. I would never have guessed that someone would take it as anything else other than I am having a blast. I keep on dancing and don't miss a beat, but I may smile, laugh, giggle. Its a good thing! If I'm serious that probably means I am not having fun!

I agree and I am a male. :)

[RoyHarper]

Wow. Get a grip. Find a shred of self-confidence somewhere, and learn to give people the benefit of the doubt. I'm sorry, but there it is.

With all due respect, I think that you missed the parts where I *repeatedly* said that I choose to give people the benefit of the doubt, and wherein I urged other people to do the same.

I'm trying to say this as gently as I can. I'm not trying to tear you a new one, but I do want to point out that I have been saying this over and over again.

As for self-confidence, perhaps you missed the story I told wherein a dance partner started doubling over in laughter, bringing the dance to a complete halt. I was self-assured enough to know that I was going the moves correctly, and I was confident enough to understand that she was probably just nervous. Still, I also understood that someone with less self-assurance would have been more likely to be discomfited by her unrestrained laughter.

And ultimately, that's what it's all about -- expressing a measure of caution and sensitivity both ways. This doesn't mean that we need to suppress all signs of enjoyment, nor does it mean that the occasional chortle is some inexcusable offense.


On a related note, I know that sometimes people are eager to put their two cents in when it comes to contentious discussions. People aren't always interested in making sure that they've understood the people to whom they're responding. We're all guilty of that on occasion, myself included. That's why I try to be patient when I pointed out that I have consistently advocated the need to give people the benefit of the doubt whenever reasonable, even as I opine that it's best to exercise caution and make our intentions clear.

[RoyHarper]

What DOI said... It really seems like there's quite a few men around here getting offended if the women aren't constantly flattering them. "Obviously she doesn't know there's a shortage of men.". "She sat down for 10 minutes." "She wasn't smiling.". "She smiled too much." Etc...
There might indeed be. If your comment was directed toward me though (and I'm not going to assume that it is), I'd like to point out that I've never asked for any flattery -- not here or elsewhere. Rather, I simply urge people to try to deal with these situations gracefully, in both directions.


I think dancing turns us all into insecure teenagers. The trick is remembering that your 20,30,40,50+ years old, and give people the benefit of the doubt.

That's very true, which is why I (again, Peaches) keep emphasizing that phrase, "benefit of the doubt."

It's also why I try to be sensitive toward beginners who might be self-conscious about others laughing at them. I remember what it was like to be a novice. I remember the times when I realized that I was doing badly, or that I wasn't anywhere near as good as I thought I was.

And it's not just beginners. I've even heard experienced dancers -- both leads and follows -- say things like "I get the feeling that so-and-so thinks I'm a total goof on the dance floor" or "So-and-so won't dance with me. Does he person think I'm that bad?" These people were by no means wracked with insecurity, but there were occasions when they felt unwelcome or otherwise doubtful, even though they weren't total noobs.

[fourand1]

I like the giggling. I really think it is just a way to share a moment within the dance. More than two bars, though, then I'd rather just dance.

To me, a giggle now and then is far nicer than hearing "sorry" for every misstep or missed lead. Too many "sorry"'s in a dance and I will actually suggest that she just overlook the mistakes that we make. But, I wouldn't think of telling someone to stop the giggling.

[Peaches]

You haven't torn me a new anything.

RH, I did read your posts, and I did understand your stories. And I still see you saying that you give people the benefit of the doubt, but still think giggling is generally offensive and should be avoided. I see you saying one thing, but it doesn't seem like you're willing to entertain ideas which disagree with your own. So...I suppose that's an impasse.

Shrug.

[Peaches]

That's very true, which is why I (again, Peaches) keep emphasizing that phrase, "benefit of the doubt."
Well, then, apply it to yourself...and give the gigglers the benefit of the doubt and get over this already.

[nucat78]

And it's not just beginners. I've even heard experienced dancers -- both leads and follows -- say things like "I get the feeling that so-and-so thinks I'm a total goof on the dance floor" or "So-and-so won't dance with me. Does he person think I'm that bad?" These people were by no means wracked with insecurity, but there were occasions when they felt unwelcome or otherwise doubtful, even though they weren't total noobs.

Well... nobody wants to look foolish or dance poorly, I'm sure. But, really, who cares? Not all follows will like my leading and I will not like all follows following. Such is the nature of the beast. Best to stay calm and carry on.

[rbazsz]

I met a lady that giggles every time we dance. At first I felt defensive because I thought she was laughing at me. It was uncomfortable for myself so I questioned whether I should ask her to dance again. She showed up at many of the same dance events as myself so either by rotation or by choice I danced with her many times.

After many dances at many different venues I began to realize that she giggles because that's how she reacts to having a very good time. She is probably almost 50 years old and yet when she giggles I'm reminded of those silly teenage girls when I was in high school.

Now I hope she giggles every time we dance because I don't know what I would think if she didn't have that sweet smile and innocence of a schoolgirl. She wears simple dresses and skirts that adds to her mystique almost as much as her innocent smile. I danced with her last night and her giggle was sweeter than the music!

[danceronice]

Well, then, apply it to yourself...and give the gigglers the benefit of the doubt and get over this already.

Exactly. You keep using this phrase, RoyHarper, but it always comes with the "but people should...", making it hard to believe you're actually doing it. If you in fact were, you would not be obssessing over it enough to have to vent. And see nucat78's post--not everyone's going to enjoy dancing with everyone else. Keep calm and carry on.

rbazsz, sounds like dancing makes her feel like young!

[skwiggy]

i have alot of fun at socials and part of that fun is always smiling when i am dancing and often giggling/laughing when a pattern is done that is really cool, or one that i can't get or if the partner that i'm dancing with at the time and i are just having a good time dancing together. I would never have guessed that someone would take it as anything else other than i am having a blast. I keep on dancing and don't miss a beat, but i may smile, laugh, giggle. Its a good thing! If i'm serious that probably means i am not having fun!

this. :)

[RoyHarper]

Well, then, apply it to yourself...and give the gigglers the benefit of the doubt and get over this already.
You and danceronice clearly don't get the point. I *do* make a point of giving them the benefit of the doubt, which is precisely why I don't assume that they have some sort of ill motive. It's also why I urge other people to do the same. I simply think that it's best to avoid giving the wrong impression, especially when one's partner might be less experienced or less self-assured.

This is not just idle speculation. As both rbazsz and CANI have attested, based on their personal experience, there were times when they thought that other dancers were laughing at their own performance. With a little bit of caution, we can avoid giving that impression. CANI herself confirmed that, as a follow, she came to realize these same things long before I brought them up in this forum.

I also acknowledged that people may sometimes laugh because they're having a good time. As I said, I have no problem with that. If it's clear that one is simply laughing out of enjoyment (and I'm sure that this is usually self-evident), then that's surely no problem. It's when we give a false impression that trouble might ensue (again, as others have personally testified in this thread).

Peaches, if I had said that gigglers must surely be snickering at their partners, then your sharp comments would have merit. As you and danceronice should know by now though, I have said no such thing. Quite the contrary; from the very start, I have taken great pains to emphasize that this is generally just a matter of mere nerves. It may throw the dancing off, but it's not a deliberate offense. For some reason though, you keep insisting that I'm ascribing some ill motives to these people, even though that is the exact opposite of what I've been saying.

[RoyHarper]

I met a lady that giggles every time we dance. At first I felt defensive because I thought she was laughing at me. It was uncomfortable for myself so I questioned whether I should ask her to dance again. She showed up at many of the same dance events as myself so either by rotation or by choice I danced with her many times.

After many dances at many different venues I began to realize that she giggles because that's how she reacts to having a very good time. She is probably almost 50 years old and yet when she giggles I'm reminded of those silly teenage girls when I was in high school.

This is a perfect example of what I've been talking about. You felt uncomfortable, and frankly, I don't blame you -- hence my emphasis on caution. Instead of jumping to conclusions though, you dealt with it gracefully, presumably giving her (to use a much-repeated phrase) "the benefit of the doubt." Eventually, you realized that she meant no offense and was simply having fun.

As I keep saying, it's a two-way street. You treated it as such, and as a result, handled it maturely with positive results. Utterly commendable.

[danceronice]

So if you know they're not--STOP EXPECTING THEM NOT TO.

You're basically asking people to utterly stomp down on a fast reaction that you admit is natural because you're "uncomfortable." That's like me wishing people wouldn't freakin' cry in public because I find it awkward and undignified and am, therefore, uncomfortable (and openly sobbing in public is something only recently acceptable, in historic terms, so I've got a lot more 'manners' weight behind it.) My being uncomfortable with overt displays of grief does not entitle me to ask people to tone it down.

If you truly are giving them the benefit of the doubt, stop asking them to shut down--have you realized that makes THEM self-conscious and uncomfortable? Now you're asking them to constantly think about their *emotional* reactions and worry "OMG, am I smiling enough? Am I smiling too much? I didn't mean to laugh! I didn't mean to frown!" What you're asking someone else to do is assume a lot of discomfort and unease by curbing a harmless reaction because you're self-conscious and think they're laughing at you (as the fact you can't let it go and have to vent about it attests.) So, they need to be self-conscious and unsure so that you won't be.

Stop worrying about it. If they're giggling, they're having a good time. Or just tell yourself they are. The truth is they're probably not even thinking that much about YOU at all.

[toothlesstiger]

This is a perfect example of what I've been talking about. You felt uncomfortable, and frankly, I don't blame you -- hence my emphasis on caution. Instead of jumping to conclusions though, you dealt with it gracefully, presumably giving her (to use a much-repeated phrase) "the benefit of the doubt." Eventually, you realized that she meant no offense and was simply having fun.

As I keep saying, it's a two-way street. You treated it as such, and as a result, handled it maturely with positive results. Utterly commendable.

So, Roy, when will you realize that they mean no offense (or at least take it that way.)

[RoyHarper]

So, Roy, when will you realize that they mean no offense (or at least take it that way.)
I did that a long time ago. Have I not repeatedly (repeatedly!) emphasized that I deliberately choose to give them the benefit of the doubt? And have I not emphasized that in general, such reactions are probably just the result of nerves? In fact, I said so right in the OP.

I like you a lot, toothlesstiger, but really -- and I don't want to sound too upset by saying this -- I'm getting a little bit tired of pointing this out over and over again.

All I'm saying is that it helps to avoid giving people the wrong impression. Clearly, this is not the same as saying that we should assume wrongful intentions on their part.


So if you know they're not--STOP EXPECTING THEM NOT TO.

You're basically asking people to utterly stomp down on a fast reaction that you admit is natural because you're "uncomfortable." ...
You're doing it again. You're severely misrepresenting what I said. If I were a different kind of person, I would offer a much more caustic response. Instead, I'd like to cautiously point out that you've been doing this quite a bit. For my part, I've made a deliberate (though doubtlessly flawed) attempt to respond to you with graciousness and patience, and with a genuine attempt to understand your viewpoint. With all due respect, I wish that you would do the same.

I'm just saying that it's advisable for folks to try to control these reactions in a way that avoids giving the wrong impression -- and no, not to the point of suppressing any expression of joy whatsoever. You may think of this as "stomping down on a fast reaction," but I don't. Rather, I recognize that we've all been in situations where we sometime have to exercise some control -- trying not to laugh at a funeral, for example, or at wrong moments in a classroom. It's the sort of thing that people sometimes have to do.

And if they fail nonetheless, it's usually not a disaster. As I said in the OP, it doesn't warrant a federal case.

Now, you may disagree with me on that point. You may think that it's utterly unreasonable to try to catch one's reactions, or to turn them around and make sure that they're conveyed in a positive way. Fine. I think you're entitled to your disagreement -- and no, I'm not the kind of guy who's going to rail against you on the Internet based on such disagreement.

And that's why I choose not to raise my voice against you here.

[latingal]

Okay, lots of good views here....but let's try to take it a bit easy on the OP. It doesn't sound like to me he is being dismissive of people's views, but he wants to share his own with others.

The following thought goes both ways here, for all of us - not just the OP:

"Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live." -- Oscar Wilde

And NO, before anybody gets up in arms, I am not calling anybody selfish here, just giving a quote for thought....

[rbazsz]

This is a perfect example of what I've been talking about. You felt uncomfortable, and frankly, I don't blame you -- hence my emphasis on caution. Instead of jumping to conclusions though, you dealt with it gracefully, presumably giving her (to use a much-repeated phrase) "the benefit of the doubt." Eventually, you realized that she meant no offense and was simply having fun.

As I keep saying, it's a two-way street. You treated it as such, and as a result, handled it maturely with positive results. Utterly commendable.

Your description of the situation is better than what I wrote!

[fascination]

thing is...the particular people involved have no clue...and posting here isn't going to help them...it may help those here who read it and realize they do the same thing...but it won't help the ladies involved

[chomsky]

thing is...the particular people involved have no clue...and posting here isn't going to help them...it may help those here who read it and realize they do the same thing...but it won't help the ladies involved

I consider myself one of these ladies. Indeed, this thread hasn't helped me a lot. I am afraid it hasn't helped a lot the OP either. Anyway, guys..:peace:

[chomsky]

:nope:I haven't stopped gigling...I'm still doing it...

[Sagitta]

I know one young lady who does this as she gets flustered when something new comes along. She used to do this all the time when she danced with me, but now is learning to go along with the flow and she told em once that she is beginning to enjoy dances with other people too a lot more.

Lots of reasons why a person giggles.

[chomsky]

I giggle when I make a mistake and it does happen a lot.
I giggle when I'm surprised.
I giggle when I am shy dancing with someone.
In general, I kind of smile a great deal.
To be honest, lately I giggle less and less... I still verbalise a lot out of joy. I say things like yupee or my dance partner's name when I see he is excited as well...

[davedove]

You know, I've read through this and, despite his constant assertion that he gives them the benefit of the doubt, Royharper is still bothered by the giggling.

Guess what, they're going to giggle. You're not going to stop that. Quit letting it bother you. We have absolutely no control over how others react. Most of the time the giggling is just an unconscious reaction to something they did or their own insecurities. The vast, VAST, majority of the time, they are not commenting on you at all.

But even the few times where they might be, SO WHAT? Learn to laugh at your own mistakes and you will never cease to be amused.:grin: