Dancing with the Stars Season 13 Fall Cast

[Beto]

Darnit, I swore I was done with this show when they cast Kate Gosselin a few seasons back. But now they've gone ahead and added United States women’s national goalkeeper Hope Solo to the show and for that reason alone I must watch. And fast forward through anything Brooke says backstage.
*sigh*

http://www.realityblurred.com/realitytv/archives/dancing_with_the_stars_13/2011_Aug_29_cast

[TinyDancer109]

OMG!!! awesome!!

[danceronice]

That's the first and only place I've seen call this cast "awesome." At FSU most of us have been going "oh my god. This is gonna SUCK." Though the rumor mill is that Hope's partner is Maks, so there is at least hope he will FINALLY get the mirror ball. (And of course, the perverse hope that Derek gets stuck with someone like Nancy, but of course he'll probably get the model.)

I'm actually anxiously waiting to see if the pro-cast spoiler list I saw is correct and Tristan and Peta (from the "DWTS Troupe") are now part of the competitive cast.

[TinyDancer109]

well, i referring to the part about Hope Solo being in the cast. I'm a big fan. lol

[danceronice]

Rumor mill is very strongly pairing her with Maks--if so, Hope ftw! (Athletes are usually pretty good at this sort of thing anyway.)

[sudoplatov]

I actually have heard of two of the people in the cast. Of course, one was a girl when I heard of him.

[wooh]

So I thought they were going to stop going D list and lower? When they were told to go for A List did they take it as "a list"??

[nucat78]

Meh. Sounds like DWTS has moved past the mature product phase and is in final decline.

[Griffico]

Per PureDWTS (http://www.puredwts.com/) via Good Morning America, reportedly.

Hope/Maks
Ricki/Derek
Kristin/Mark
Chynna/Tony
Elizabetta/Val
Nancy/Tristan
David A/Kym
Rob/Cheryl
JR Martinez/Karina
Carson/Anna
Chaz/Lacey
Ron/Peta

[Griffico]

Meh. Sounds like DWTS has moved past the mature product phase and is in final decline.

I disagree... it's a show that's got fresh tabloid fodder every 6 months. As long as they keep switching things up, people will watch.

On a personal level, I keep watching because there's always an unknown that surprises me and hooks me in. I love when somebody has a routine and you just go, "That's it! That's what I want to see! That actually looked like a paso/waltz/foxtrot/etc. (!)"

[danceronice]

I watch it because I like the pros. Most of the "stars" could get run over by a truck in the studio parking lot and it wouldn't really matter one way or another to me. Once in a while they get someone good and the professional dancers are always fun to watch. And unlike SYTYCD I don't have to sit through much non-ballroom stuff. (Plus no matter how annoying Bruno is, all the SYTYCD judges are much, much worse. Bruno at least just has his predictable schtick.)

[jjs914]

I actually don't watch anymore...I just read all your informative comments here. Therefore, I am up to date on all the drama, but don't sit through all the fluff and don't have to listen to the judges!

:p

[Griffico]

I watch it because I like the pros. Most of the "stars" could get run over by a truck in the studio parking lot and it wouldn't really matter one way or another to me. Once in a while they get someone good and the professional dancers are always fun to watch. And unlike SYTYCD I don't have to sit through much non-ballroom stuff. (Plus no matter how annoying Bruno is, all the SYTYCD judges are much, much worse. Bruno at least just has his predictable schtick.)

I guess I take for granted that I watch it for this, too... I'm happy that the pros are finding a way to make some money in ballroom dance and get some exposure to the sport. Riccardo, Yulia, Arunas and Katusha last year on the show was a real treat as well.

(Also, agreed on SYTYCD...)

[anp73ga31]

I watch it because I like the pros. Most of the "stars" could get run over by a truck in the studio parking lot and it wouldn't really matter one way or another to me. Once in a while they get someone good and the professional dancers are always fun to watch. And unlike SYTYCD I don't have to sit through much non-ballroom stuff. (Plus no matter how annoying Bruno is, all the SYTYCD judges are much, much worse. Bruno at least just has his predictable schtick.)

This.

[Wannabee]

I love this show. It is far far from perfect, and I will admit I hit the ff button on my TIVO more frequently in recent seasons than I have in the past. But I will always watch this show because it is what inspired me to take dance lessons. I had never danced a step in my life but thought, if he/she can do it and not be perfect, so can I.

That was 2 years, 2 showcases, and one ballroom competition ago (where I actually placed in several of my dances). I can't imagine what I did with my life before I started ballroom dance. And I don't want to imagine what I would do now without it.

So through thick or thin, I am a fan of DWTS for the duration...

[Beto]

It amazes me how much hate there is on this forum for SYTYCD and non-ballroom styles. Then again, 90% of you or more are pure ballroom dancers, and this is a ballroom-centric site, so I guess that's to be expected.

I'm watching for Hope Solo and Maksim. That's it. I'll FF through the rest.

[Griffico]

I'm watching for Hope Solo and Maksim. That's it. I'll FF through the rest.

Why? You never know who might surprise on the first night.

[Beto]

Why? You never know who might surprise on the first night.
Right now Hope Solo, and Maksim, are the only couple I care about on the show. And of course I care more about the dance pros then I do the people that they're paired up with. Reality show "stars" don't interest me and if memory serves me correctly they never have in past seasons of the show. It pains me to this day how some of these people got famous in the first place and I feel as though they shouldn't be getting more exposure. I will keep an open mind for some of the other contestants for the reason you mentioned.

[danceronice]

When SYTYCD gets in real ballet dancers doing real ballet, and less street stuff and "contemporary/lyrical/modern/whatever made-up hair-whipping they're calling it this time", call me. And less annoying judges. The 'ballroom' judge is the most annoying (the screams need to stop. It's rarely THAT good. At least Carrie Anne cries quietly.) How anyone can take half the routines seriously (the flowers in heaven thing was a laugh riot) I do not know.

[Beto]

I'll take Mary over Carrie Ann and Bruno any day. She at least knows more about the dances than those two do. Contemporary and lyrical aren't your thing so I get that. If DwtS would just add one more permanent ballroom judge, and get rid of CA or Bruno, I'd be happier. For now I'll watch but with clenched teeth and my finger on the TiVo's FF button.

[Terpsichorean Clod]

I actually don't watch anymore...I just read all your informative comments here. Therefore, I am up to date on all the drama, but don't sit through all the fluff and don't have to listen to the judges!

:p
Freeloader! :bkick:

[Beto]

Freeloader! :bkick:
Hey now, it's what I did for the past 2-3 seasons. No shame in admitting it! :D

[bia]

It amazes me how much hate there is on this forum for SYTYCD and non-ballroom styles. Then again, 90% of you or more are pure ballroom dancers, and this is a ballroom-centric site, so I guess that's to be expected.

Speaking only for myself, I certainly do not hate non-ballroom dance styles. As far as these two shows, my watching of DWTS fell off before my watching of SYTYCD -- the latter clearly has the better dancers among its competitors, and there are a lot of non-ballroom routines and dancers that I have found extremely memorable over the years. But what bothers me about SYTYCD and its treatment of ballroom is that the show pretends to be all about dance diversity and that it's treating all dance styles equally, and then it somehow mysteriously ends up all contemporary-heavy each and every year. Though I watched very little beyond the auditions this year, I did see a couple of the ballroom routines from very late in the season, and they were just weak. So, the show is what it is, but I wish they'd stop pretending to be something else.

As far as DWTS, I haven't watched much lately, but I'm kinda curious to see Hope and Maks, and I like watching the pros, so I may watch a bit this year. I haven't listened to the judges on either of these shows for years.

[Griffico]

Let's try and steer the discussion back to DWTS, eh?

I'm curious to see who comes out as a frontrunner. Nobody on the list screams 'ringer' to me, so it should be interesting. Then again, last season just kind of ended up feeling kind of mediocre...

[Wannabee]

Let's try and steer the discussion back to DWTS, eh?

I'm curious to see who comes out as a frontrunner. Nobody on the list screams 'ringer' to me, so it should be interesting. Then again, last season just kind of ended up feeling kind of mediocre...

Agree about last season. I felt the same way, almost like the fewer couples that were left, the less desire I had to watch. Usually it's the other way around for me, making the later rounds and finals great to watch. I would try to predict who was gonna rise to the occasion and who was gonna choke, who I wanted to rise vs who I wanted to choke, and so on. Hopefully this season will be a good one.

[TinyDancer109]

i think maks' tough coaching style will be perfect for a disciplined athelete like hope - hope FTW!

[danceronice]

i think maks' tough coaching style will be perfect for a disciplined athelete like hope - hope FTW!

I am really, really, REALLY hoping this is a sign that the producers are angling for Maks to finally get his mirror-ball trophy. Athletes tend to do well, there are no glaringly obvious ringers, Maks has really gotten very very close only to get pipped at the post before....he's past due.

Someone on the DTWS facebook was asking where Chelsie went. What about Louis? That one surprises me.

[jjs914]

Freeloader! :bkick:

Admittedly! ;)

Doesn't help that I am often in the studio the nights the show runs!

[gingerbread]

No one commenting on the addition of Valentin? It's going to be great watching him in the pro routines. Of course the show will punch up some fake rivalry between the brothers, but for me, I am happy to have someone of his caliber to watch. May make Derek and Mark try a little harder...

[danceronice]

There's a whole thread in the main forum on Val retiring. Most of the chatter's been there.

Didn't he and Mark do a thing last season about how they competed against each other during one of Val's guest appearances? (And I cannot help but hope this is either a response to Derek's....divided fan response/backlash, or a little reminder to him that hey, we can find a new pretty boy to replace you, Mr. Movie Star.)

[Terpsichorean Clod]

Admittedly! ;)

Doesn't help that I am often in the studio the nights the show runs!
Surely there is a TV in the studio that you could watch when no one is reviewing a comp video. ;)

[davedove]

Someone on the DTWS facebook was asking where Chelsie went. What about Louis? That one surprises me.

I hadn't noticed that until you mentioned it. What a shame; Chelsie is such a cutie. At least my girl Kym is still there.

Louis has never really seemed to get good partners. I think the closest he got to winning was with Kelly Osbourne at 3rd place, if I'm not mistaken.

I noticed that Karina is still in the cast. I guess the producers weren't as bothered about her Playboy pictures as everyone thought, probably because it brought the show more publicity.:rolleyes:

[Griffico]

I hadn't noticed that until you mentioned it. What a shame; Chelsie is such a cutie. At least my girl Kym is still there.

Louis has never really seemed to get good partners. I think the closest he got to winning was with Kelly Osbourne at 3rd place, if I'm not mistaken.

I noticed that Karina is still in the cast. I guess the producers weren't as bothered about her Playboy pictures as everyone thought, probably because it brought the show more publicity.:rolleyes:

Louis was complaining on Twitter about how it wasn't his decision to not come back. He seemed to think it was about how busy he was with his LAblast program, but who knows really.

I heard something about Chelsie being under a conflicting contract with SYTYCD, but I can't verify that at all.

[danceronice]

Louis was complaining on Twitter about how it wasn't his decision to not come back. He seemed to think it was about how busy he was with his LAblast program, but who knows really.

I heard something about Chelsie being under a conflicting contract with SYTYCD, but I can't verify that at all.

Unless she's doing an all-stars thing with SYTYCD, that would seem odd, as she's been on DWTS two or three seasons and it hasn't been a problem...

[Bailamosdance]

LOL!


http://jezebel.com/5836410/comment-of-the-day-qa-with-dwts-most-bigoted-fans

[anp73ga31]

It amazes me how much hate there is on this forum for SYTYCD and non-ballroom styles. Then again, 90% of you or more are pure ballroom dancers, and this is a ballroom-centric site, so I guess that's to be expected.

I'm watching for Hope Solo and Maksim. That's it. I'll FF through the rest.

Who said anything about hate? :confused: I like to watch other styles, I just prefer ballroom. Thus I like DWTS better than SYTYCD because it's all ballroom. I don't "hate" or even dislike any of the other styles just because I prefer to watch ballroom, though. That's like saying I hate lasagna and spaghetti because I want to eat pizza more....when in all actuality, I really like lasagna and spaghetti but I just could eat pizza every day whereas I would need breaks in between the other foods. Geez....its too early to be hungry...but now I am....

[jjs914]

Surely there is a TV in the studio that you could watch when no one is reviewing a comp video. ;)

The partner might have something to say about the drop in productivity of our practices!!

[ajiboyet]

I hadn't noticed that until you mentioned it. What a shame; Chelsie is such a cutie. At least my girl Kym is still there.

Louis has never really seemed to get good partners. I think the closest he got to winning was with Kelly Osbourne at 3rd place, if I'm not mistaken.

I noticed that Karina is still in the cast. I guess the producers weren't as bothered about her Playboy pictures as everyone thought, probably because it brought the show more publicity.:rolleyes:

I've never been a fan of Chelsie's dancing. I like her person, at least as much as I'm allowed to meet her on TV. But I'm not a fan of her dancing.

On the other hand, I completely ADORE Louis van Amstel. But I think I read the thing about all the female pros being taller than he is somewhere in the past few days. I know he has missed a season before solely because of that...I hope he shows up on the pro dances at least.

[Griffico]

I've never been a fan of Chelsie's dancing. I like her person, at least as much as I'm allowed to meet her on TV. But I'm not a fan of her dancing.

On the other hand, I completely ADORE Louis van Amstel. But I think I read the thing about all the female pros being taller than he is somewhere in the past few days. I know he has missed a season before solely because of that...I hope he shows up on the pro dances at least.

I think he's still going to be involved in the new Dance Battle segment, FWIW

[kckc]

Unless she's doing an all-stars thing with SYTYCD, that would seem odd, as she's been on DWTS two or three seasons and it hasn't been a problem...

Actually, I believe she did do an all-star thing on SYTYCD, and on the rare occasion that I actually saw it this season, Louis V. had done some of the choreography for one of the couples. Interesting that he isn't on DWTS this time...

I personally don't care for SYTYCD either DOI, I'm not a fan of the contempojazzhop ...stuff... that seems to dominate. However, I also don't see why people keep trying to compare the two shows (might have been a different thread). They are completely different formats.

(hijack over) I always intend not to watch any more DWTS because the "celebs" keep getting sketchier and sketchier in terms of actual fame, but I've already been asked umpteen times if I watch it and what I think, so I may have to watch just to keep up.

[Ray Sison]

Darnit, I swore I was done with this show when they cast Kate Gosselin a few seasons back. But now they've gone ahead and added United States women’s national goalkeeper Hope Solo to the show and for that reason alone I must watch. And fast forward through anything Brooke says backstage.
*sigh*

http://www.realityblurred.com/realitytv/archives/dancing_with_the_stars_13/2011_Aug_29_cast

Beto, I know! I am sooo excited about Hope Solo... :banana:

[TallTenDancer]

My first reaction on seeing the list of stars was "who are these people?!" Maybe I'm just out of touch... I'll watch to pick apart the pro's and see what I can learn from them, and skip all the pointless parts. Maybe they'll have a segment where all the couples have to dance/jump over a shark ;)

[Ray Sison]

Maybe they'll have a segment where all the couples have to dance/jump over a shark ;)

Clever! :cheers:

[RickRS]

My first reaction on seeing the list of stars was "who are these people?!"
I would say that's typical every season. There's never anybody that a A-list, or ever a B-list from the entertainment world. If you follow sports, some names may be recognizable.


Maybe they'll have a segment where all the couples have to dance/jump over a shark ;)

Should they had that three or four seasons ago? :rolleyes:

[RickRS]

I heard something about Chelsie being under a conflicting contract with SYTYCD, but I can't verify that at all.

Weird,

Chelsie only did one "All-Star" guest performance on SYTYCD, and it was announced by Nigel after her number that Chelsie wouldn't be able to do more because of her contract conflicts. It was assumed by all us fans the conflict was the start of DwtS.

[TallTenDancer]

Should they had that three or four seasons ago? :rolleyes:

Yeah, I think they should have. Oh well, I can keep hoping and looking for something good to replace it... (as a ballroom-focused show, not that SYTYCD isn't decent)

[Ray Sison]

I disagree... it's a show that's got fresh tabloid fodder every 6 months. As long as they keep switching things up, people will watch.

On a personal level, I keep watching because there's always an unknown that surprises me and hooks me in. I love when somebody has a routine and you just go, "That's it! That's what I want to see! That actually looked like a paso/waltz/foxtrot/etc. (!)"

Griffico, I agree with you. It can't always be like our past favorite seasons, otherwise it would become redundant. There is always something (like Hope Solo being in it) that keeps me coming back... :cheers:

[Imhere]

First Rehearsals
http://www.youtube.com/user/ABCNetwork#p/c/40EB3606E5DDD8DA

[TinyDancer109]

hahaha well based on that alone carson and hope get my votes! :)

[Griffico]

I hope the background is their new set...

[Beto]

hahaha well based on that alone carson and hope get my votes! :)
Ditto. Also, I didn't know that they were bringing new (to DwtS and to non-ballroomers like myself) pros to the show so that's another reason I'm interested in returning this show to my TiVo schedule.

[danceronice]

Tristan and Peta were both in the the "DWTS Troupe" last season, which actually introduced the pro dancers performing in results shows (to the point of making me wonder if it was a kind of audition for the main cast) so they're actually not new to viewers.

[Wannabee]

I hate that my life is so boring that the highlight for me is that DWTS starts tonight lol.

I love Tony and Maks. It appears they both have decent partners (as far as I could tell from first rehersal footage). Either of them are WAY overdue to win the whole thing IMO.

[Purr]

Per PureDWTS (http://www.puredwts.com/) via Good Morning America, reportedly.

JR Martinez/Karina


Got to cheer on the Iraq Army veteran!

[chachachacat]

It amazes me how much hate there is on this forum for SYTYCD and non-ballroom styles. Then again, 90% of you or more are pure ballroom dancers, and this is a ballroom-centric site, so I guess that's to be expected.


Whoa! I love SYTYCD, and I love seeing all the styles of dance.
I started out with ballet and jazz. Count one dance lover; I'm sure there are more!

[sambanada]

countdown!

[pygmalion]

Die, Nancy Grace! Die! Just kidding. *grin* I do have to admit that this will be the first season I've watched in a long time, and she is the draw. I want to see her lose! She irks me on headline news. I realize that my position has nothing to do with dancing ... but then what about DWTS really does?

[ajiboyet]

In the end, I don't think it really matters if they're A-list Grammy/Oscar winning celebrities, or just a handful of people plucked off the streets. It's a dance show, and I love ballroom dancing, and I want to see good ballroom dancing. I doesn't matter how popular or not they are. I just want to see people who dance well.

[Griffico]

In the end, I don't think it really matters if they're A-list Grammy/Oscar winning celebrities, or just a handful of people plucked off the streets. It's a dance show, and I love ballroom dancing, and I want to see good ballroom dancing. I doesn't matter how popular or not they are. I just want to see people who dance well.

This..

Did anybody else feel like David Arquette was horribly underscored? I thought his Viennese Waltz was magnificent, especially for the first week.

[Wannabee]

This..

Did anybody else feel like David Arquette was horribly underscored? I thought his Viennese Waltz was magnificent, especially for the first week.

I so agree with you Griffico. My favorites by far last night were Chynna and Arquette. To me, they are the ones to beat so far. I really like Hope and she did pretty well last night but she is rougher around the edges than DA and CP. However, she has an incredible work ethic and is talented so she may be able to catch up to others' natural ability. Carson had me literally laughing out loud, in both good and bad ways, but I like him so I hope he stays around for a few episodes anyway.

[danceronice]

Die, Nancy Grace! Die! Just kidding. *grin* I do have to admit that this will be the first season I've watched in a long time, and she is the draw. I want to see her lose! She irks me on headline news. I realize that my position has nothing to do with dancing ... but then what about DWTS really does?

Sorry, I have to vote for her because of Tristan. If it makes you feel better I have never seen her show in my life.

[davedove]

This..

Did anybody else feel like David Arquette was horribly underscored? I thought his Viennese Waltz was magnificent, especially for the first week.

I thought David's VW was great, but not nearly as smooth as Chynna's and JR's.

Does anyone else find JR to be just an amazing person. After all he's been through, he just seems so upbeat and positive.

I would like to see Chynna go the distance, not so much for her, but because Tony seems like such a great guy, he deserves to win one.

[Griffico]

I thought David's VW was great, but not nearly as smooth as Chynna's and JR's.

Does anyone else find JR to be just an amazing person. After all he's been through, he just seems so upbeat and positive.

I would like to see Chynna go the distance, not so much for her, but because Tony seems like such a great guy, he deserves to win one.

Upon watching the videos again I'd have to agree, though I still think David got underscored...

[sambanada]

Intersting season.

[want2dance]

I thought Chynna and JR were the best. I also liked David Arquette and thought his scores were low. I was pleasantly surprised by Chaz! It would be nice for Tony or Karina to win since neither of them get the credit they deserve on this show! Go Tony and Karina!

[GGinrhinestones]

Sorry, I have to vote for her because of Tristan. If it makes you feel better I have never seen her show in my life.

I have never really watched DWTS before, don't even have broadcast TV at home, but I'm in a hotel this week and just happened to turn it on last night. And I am completely in love with Tristan. I was watching him thinking I really hope Nancy Grace sticks around for a while so I can keep watching him dance. Plus, I want to dance with him. And just listen to him talk. ;)

I was also very impressed by Chynna (yeah, I know I'm probably spelling her name wrong) and JT...oh my, that man is inspiring. So very grounded, like so many of the military people I know, an amazing attitude, and has the most incredibly bright, wonderful smile. Both danced very well, and I might just have to find a way to keep watching the show as long as they're both on it. I could take a lot of pointers from the way those two, in particular, just let go and showed off their sheer love of dancing last night.

[danceronice]

I have never really watched DWTS before, don't even have broadcast TV at home, but I'm in a hotel this week and just happened to turn it on last night. And I am completely in love with Tristan. I was watching him thinking I really hope Nancy Grace sticks around for a while so I can keep watching him dance. Plus, I want to dance with him. And just listen to him talk. ;)

He's nice to dance with, too. If she listens (and they actually judge/vote on improvement) it might bode well.

And I think you spelled "Chynna" right. It's something like that. I hope Tony gets to stick around for quite a bit, too. After all the years he's put in for this show he deserves it.

[pygmalion]

Sorry, I have to vote for her because of Tristan. If it makes you feel better I have never seen her show in my life.


*giggle* Just ftr, that does make me feel marginally better. I 'm feeling you on the Tristan thing. I just cannot stand her. It's personal. *shrug*

[sambanada]

It seems that the energy is up this season. I'm enjoying it.

[danceronice]

*giggle* Just ftr, that does make me feel marginally better. I 'm feeling you on the Tristan thing. I just cannot stand her. It's personal. *shrug*

Lol, I knew Tristan before he was on the show (that "studio in Boston" he mentioned in one of the clips?) so I would vote for him no matter who his partner might have been. They'd have had to TRY to come up with someone I disliked THAT much.

[Ray Sison]

It seems that the energy is up this season. I'm enjoying it.

+1 :cheers:

[mindputtee]

Tristan is adorable. I want him to come back again and again just so I can hear him talk more and more.

[ajiboyet]

Is it just me who didn't like the Troupe's jive?

[mindputtee]

I didn't catch it cause I didn't watch the results show (I looked it up on wiki instead).

I have to say though... Hope Solo's costume was not flattering on her. It made her torso look very long and made her legs look shorter.

[danceronice]

Is it just me who didn't like the Troupe's jive?

It struck me as trying a bit too hard to be "personalities" and edgy.

[sounddguy]

I thought Hope's keeper training really paid off in her frame. She almost had too much knee flex. I think she will be strong enough to keep Max in line (if anyone can).

[mindputtee]

Do you ever vote for the pros rather than the stars? I was wondering if people think Val and Elisabetta got saved because of Val rather than Elisabetta.

[danceronice]

Do you ever vote for the pros rather than the stars? I was wondering if people think Val and Elisabetta got saved because of Val rather than Elisabetta.

Uh, that's pretty much ALL I do, unless there's a star I feel particularly strongly about one way or another. Most of them are total nonentities to me (like all of them this season, though I guess Carson shows Saddlebreds so I ought to show some equine-related love) to the point I honestly can't remember who most of them are, so the pros are all I have to go on. This season in particular one pro's an actual real-life acquaintence whom I've actually worked with so of course I'm voting to keep him on.

And I am SURE Val is what saved Elisabetta's butt, as models tend to have a very short lifespan on DWTS unless paired with a propular pro (see Brooke and Derek, though with Shannon and her whineyness that did eventually backfire.) Very limited name recognition, most women aren't going to like them (as they're impossible to identify with). Peta or whatever her name was (tsunami-girl) was the exception that proved the rule, she happened to be good, have a cute pro with name rec himself, and a Tragic Backstory (tm) that garners sympathy. In Elisabeta's case, "Poor me, I broke up with George Clooney" is not exactly going to go very far as idenfiability goes. Having Maks's hottie younger brother as a partner? Gonna go a VERY long way.

[IsaacAltman]

You can get my no holds barred review on video here http://www.internationaldancestudio.com/IDSViewer.html

[chachachacat]

I really liked Lacey's choreography for the big pro number! Different.
Nice dramatic opening. Very sharp choreography.

[gingerbread]

That's my problem. I really can't stand watching Elisabetta, but I would hate to see Val leave so early. He is the reason I am looking forward to this season. On the other hand, she has no fan support and she is really pretty awful, so I can't see her staying more than another week at most.
Petra wasd the only model I ever liked, as she seemed genuine (is that possible? a model who is genuine?), and she had at least some dance quality.

Uh, that's pretty much ALL I do, unless there's a star I feel particularly strongly about one way or another. Most of them are total nonentities to me (like all of them this season, though I guess Carson shows Saddlebreds so I ought to show some equine-related love) to the point I honestly can't remember who most of them are, so the pros are all I have to go on. This season in particular one pro's an actual real-life acquaintence whom I've actually worked with so of course I'm voting to keep him on.

And I am SURE Val is what saved Elisabetta's butt, as models tend to have a very short lifespan on DWTS unless paired with a propular pro (see Brooke and Derek, though with Shannon and her whineyness that did eventually backfire.) Very limited name recognition, most women aren't going to like them (as they're impossible to identify with). Peta or whatever her name was (tsunami-girl) was the exception that proved the rule, she happened to be good, have a cute pro with name rec himself, and a Tragic Backstory (tm) that garners sympathy. In Elisabeta's case, "Poor me, I broke up with George Clooney" is not exactly going to go very far as idenfiability goes. Having Maks's hottie younger brother as a partner? Gonna go a VERY long way.

[ChaChaMama]

It amazes me how much hate there is on this forum for SYTYCD and non-ballroom styles. Then again, 90% of you or more are pure ballroom dancers, and this is a ballroom-centric site, so I guess that's to be expected.



Far from true in this household! Both my 8-year-old daughter and I are taking hip-hop this year with a Season 1 SYTYCD top 3 finisher, Jamile McGee. We LOVE it!!! (We're not in the same class, obviously. She's in with 5-8 year olds, and I'm in the adult class.)

I will say that I think SYTYCD has gone downhill for me since the awesome season 4, and I don't think I've watched all the way to the end since season 5...but season 8 did seem to me a big improvement on the bland 6 and 7.

+++
I am now going to make a possibly annoying editorial comment. Is it absolutely necessary for them to show a clip of Kristen Cavallari calling someone a b-word during a show that airs at 8 PM and has tried to market itself as family entertainment? I am a pretty liberal parent, and no, I'm not naive enough to think my 4th grader doesn't know curse words, but seeing an adult direct a curse word in the face of another adult? Not cool in my book, and not necessary for this show.

[Leon Theou]

I am now going to make a possibly annoying editorial comment. Is it absolutely necessary for them to show a clip of Kristen Cavallari calling someone a b-word during a show that airs at 8 PM and has tried to market itself as family entertainment?
Actually, I hadn't given this any thought, but I am surprised that they could get away with that before the watershed.

[danceronice]

Actually, I hadn't given this any thought, but I am surprised that they could get away with that before the watershed.

The watershed's more or less 9pm in the US, so it's borderline, but workable. And actually, while ABC (being one of the "free" broadcast networks) might get in minor trouble for it, it's relatively minor, not like one of the big words you cannot say before 10pm or un-pixelated nudity. (And on cable, it's strictly a courtesy thing to advertisers--they AREN'T subject to any of the Safe Harbor rules, they just normally tone things down before 10 because advertisers worry. Hence the premium channels not having to worry about it, and PBS some nights, too.)

Given the shows Kristen (or whatever Mark's girl's name is) was on, it's probably not like they had a lot of scenes to chose from.

[TinyDancer109]

My Faves (in no particular order):
-JR
-Carson
-Hope
-David
-Chynna (although she is obviously one of the better dancers, I think she will need to appeal to the audience more personality-wise to make it all the way)

[gingerbread]

Today's New York Times has a nice article on DWTS that states the people now tune in to see the pros rather than the celebrities. The paper says this is because the celebrities are less and less of star quality, but also, and more importantly, becasue the pros have now become famous, people relate to them, know them and want to watch them. On the downside, in another article in the Business section, the paper reports that the ratings for last week were way below last year's (28% lower for the results show) and that this may spell the slow end of some reality shows. So enjoy while you can, folks.

[GJB]

End of reality shows? Yeah Buddy !!!!

[danceronice]

If we're getting rid of reality shows, we can keep DWTS and lose Jersey Shore (which is probably going to lose its NJ state film incentive funding, yay, not that it'll put a stop to the show...)

[GJB]

Yeah, I'd keep DWTS and SYTYCD and get rid of the rest.

[salsera_alemana]

I just watch DWTS for the fun of it because I love to see dancing, especially partner dancing. (My favorite show, though, is SYTYCD, because it has so much more and so much better dancing).

I have seen all seasons except season 1 and I normally know one celebrity when I am lucky, so my expectations in that respect are always low (I have a good chance to know the internationally known athletes except the football, baseball, basketball players) . But over time I get to know them all a bit and then might have my favorites. This season I even know 3 of the so called stars, who would have thought... I was excited to hear that Hope Solo would be on the show. She did great in the women's soccer world cup in June!

However, I think the level of dancing is considerably lower this season than in previous seasons. Or is it only me? I am not a ballroom dancer and cannot judge technique, but tonight it seemed to me that all except JR Martinez had a hard time making it through. It was painful to watch them for the most part.

I think JR was by far the best tonight, he had great musicality and was light on his feet. And I cannot understand how Ricky gets higher scores than him, her jive looked very heavy to me, as if she was not able to get her feet and weight off the ground and tried to "cover" that by trying to be fancy and sexy.

If I had to choose a pro to train me, it would definitely be Tristan, I thought tonight. His partner (Grace?) seems to be a difficult person and he was so kind and gracious with her. I sympathized with Elisabetta because I would not be able to cope with neither Val nor Max. I would have reacted the same way. Somebody who would talk to me like that, accusing me of not listening and not wanting to learn when I give my everything, would completely frustrate and demotivate me and make me give up.

I might be the only one her, but I just have a blast with Bruno. The show would not be the same without him! I could do without Carry Ann, though. And I love Len but wasn't he in a grumpy mood tonight? I think his expectations had been much higher, too.

I miss Chelsea! After Julianne left, she has been my favorite pro. I loved her as a contestant on SYTYCD and was excited when she came to DWTS! I hope she will be back next season.

JR Martinez all the way!!!!

[danceronice]

Tristan's partner is Nancy Grace, tv lawyer.

And Riki got high scores because she's dancing with Derek. Derek can do no wrong, for some incomprehensible reason.

[hereKittyKitty]

JR Martinez killed that Jive!- I don't give a crap what the judges thought. It was as close to perfection as it gets. So maybe a few more kicks would have made it more jive and less lindy (which is where jive came from!) :rolleyes:

[Griffico]

However, I think the level of dancing is considerably lower this season than in previous seasons. Or is it only me? I am not a ballroom dancer and cannot judge technique, but tonight it seemed to me that all except JR Martinez had a hard time making it through. It was painful to watch them for the most part.

It's about on par with most seasons and really, it's actually better than the past two in my opinion. The judges are niggling about a bit, but for the most part people aren't selling out to the audiences and they're making a concerted effort to really dance well (Thank you Mark and Derek for doing tolerable choreography again). I feel like we've actually got some dancers here who are capable of making a decent run at it, whereas the last couple winners were more of the "Well it doesn't exactly look like the real deal but they're having a lot of fun!" variety.

What I don't understand is how JR gets marked down for doing a lindy-ish jive when that sort of thing is as common as it has been. To me the jives always seem to stray the furthest from what you would see on the competition floor going back many seasons, and this is the first I can recall somebody being called out on it.

Other notes:
I wish Chynna had better fast-twitch muscles or she'd be tops! She reminds me a lot of Jane Seymour...

I was so glad to see Carson tone it down a bit this week (not a fan of the "omg sequins!" schtick), and was even more glad to see him putting some visible work into his dancing.

Ricki Lake looked improved but kind of leaves me dry... she seems to obsess about the weight loss thing too much.

I'm still kind of disappointed in Hope... Should she really be doing this and also the USWNT simultaneously? Being an active athlete isn't quite the same as being a soap star or a retired [insert whatever profession here]. Lots of contradictory muscle memory happening. Then again, I'm still holding out for a surprise.

I like Tristan very much but can't see past Nancy Grace's other occupation (sensationalized gossip) enough to like her.

David Arquette... oh dear. He might be gone this week after seeming like he had potential last week.

I was getting kind of excited for Elisabetta and Val during their quickstep... and then halfway through they broke hold. It was almost like that was the point in the dance that matched up with the training video when she quit on Val. She has potential for sure, but I'm wondering if she'll go all the way with it.

Chaz is quickly becoming a forgettable character on the show... he doesn't seem like he came in at all prepared for what was headed his way, and it might be a KO by mercy rule. (On a side note, the costume crew also managed to make Lacey look pretty darn dumpy this week)

[TinyDancer109]

the most hilarious part of the night was when Nancy Grace fell out of her costume several times... and the best they could think of to do was cut to scenes of the audience not clapping and looking like they were at a funeral... when you could hear the applause in the background! hahaha

[Griffico]

On a different note... does anyone else think that the music is significantly better this year? They seem to be going mostly back to the dances' roots, which is awesome.

(Let's face it... the "Yankee Doodle Dandy" foxtrot was an all-time low and you can't go anywhere but up from that)

[fascination]

my 2 cents having seen bits and pieces of it; yes, JR rocked it, regardless of the nit picking (which I actually found to have some merits although I think those horses left the barn on this show a long time ago) beyond JR, I thought rikki was the only other dancer whose legs even minimally approximated jive....and while I have no love at all for Nancy Grace, I give her pro big props for doing a real quickstep instead of flash and trash (not at all impressed with Mark Ballas' version of QS)....um, and I would like to express my deep appreciation for the open shirt group number with Val...as well as his teaching style which sort of works for me :)

[TallTenDancer]

Is it just me, or are the "freshman" pros getting booted first this season? IIRC Tristian is the only new pro still in the running. Would have liked to see Chaz go before Elisabetta, though, I thought she had more potential.

I think right now, my top-3 would have to be JR, Hope or Chynna, and probably David. They seem to have the best potential so far.

Griff, I agree on the music... there's still been a few questionable choices, but on the whole much better -- and some good contemporary pieces that fit the dances pretty well (like Breakaway... maybe one of my favorite VW's). But the more... unusual... music seems to get more common later in the season as the dances get harder and the dancers get better.

[fascination]

for me, the big three are; JR by a mile, followed by Hope and Rikki...

While Elisabetta had WAAAAY more potential to improve, I can see that her attitude killed her with the public and I won't miss her either...but I will dearly miss Val whom I thought was adorable as he said to her that he wished he could have done better by her...are you kidding me dude?...He did a great job.

[salsera_alemana]

I think Elisabetta would have deserved to stay a little longer. I was hoping for Chaz that the voters would put him out of pain and let him go. I find him likeable, however, if he is in so much pain in week 2 already, how will he "survive" next week?

My favorites are clearly JR and Hope. Although Carson does not look like a talented dancer, I find him very entertaining and hope he will stay for a couple of weeks.

[danceronice]

I didn't see Ricki's jive until tonight, and honestly my reaction was "I wish my closed bronze routine was that easy." Nothing to do, she barely moved while Derek did tricks. I also question what Derek and Mark's ability to do backflips has to do with either jive OR quickstep. I hope they're both off soon.

[fascination]

she certainly could have had more pep in her step, but I would rather see a simple thing that can be identified as a jive... pretty sure I never saw a pointed toe or straight knee on the others...regardless of what Derek was doing

[danceronice]

It doesn't look like jive if you're shuffling and standing. I'll take JR's, where the body shaping might be more lindy but there are definite active flicks (and basic triple steps, come to that) over standing around doing single-time swing while the pro showboats. She shouldn't have been ahead of JR OR Chynna, who had just as much jive action as Ricki. But the overscoring of Derek continues (and it's not helping with the non-dancing audience, at least as FSU, where the non-dancing viewers are really sick of him. I can see he's good, but that doesn't make him a good teacher.)

[fascination]

well, I was pretty clear in previous posts that JR did the best job...that said, there is alot more to good technique than how much energy one has...certainly, it would have been far better had she done that as well... but I appreciated that her legs weren't a nightmare, unlike many of the others...I don't particularly care about the whole Derek issue

[nikkitta]

yeah, big dittoes, and nor do I care what figure skaters think about the pros, so it would be really great if those repeated comments and snarky words were eliminated here.

I personally thought Ricki's jive cheated a bit by sneaking in some single-timing where it should be triple, but heck I've done the same thing when I couldn't keep up with the music. That said, she has surpassed my initial expectations of her, regardless of who she's dancing with. I'm impressed.
David's jive looked so off the music because he seemed to be frantically trying to get his steps in no matter what. Poor guy. Kinda cruel to throw Viennese and Jive at them so soon. Some people's brains and bodies just don't move that fast when first learning to dance.
Chaz's quickstep didn't seem that much slower than Nancy's, and either her topline is really bad or her pro was literally carrying her - hard to tell (and maybe that's how her bosoms oozed out?). I was too distracted to look at her footwork.
Carson had fleeting moments of what looked like nice simple quickstep. I hope he sticks around long enough to "get it" and really dance instead of being a spaz.
Hope... clearly she's fit enough to be up to this challenge but maybe her muscle memory from her other training is crossing wires with what needs to happen in ballroom. But I suppose with less than a week to learn these new dances, you gotta pick your battles and be satisfied with a reasonable facsimile rather than spent an inordinate amount of time on heel-toe vs. ball-flat.

[TinyDancer109]

i feel bad that carson and anna got some pretty crappy music. i know he isnt the best technical dancer, but he couldnt even work with the PERFORMANCE aspect with THAT music.

[danceronice]

I think Nancy's dresses haven't fit very well. They really don't seem to be supportive enough.

Straight knee in jive is nice, but not without the high knee before it on the accent. Otherwise it's just ECS at high speed. Ricki's just seemed extremely content-free, like someone took all the hard bits out and left in tricks that didn't require actually doing jive. Definitely unworthy of an encore and being the top score.

Did they do QS/Jive second week last time? Even though I get not wanting to do two dances in one week, I like when they had the double-elimination first week and had everyone do the dance (cha or waltz)

(And as for the figure-skater comment, Nikkitta, which is random as I haven't skated in a few years but I do dance, I'd suggest keeping YOUR opinions of other posters to yourself. No one died and made you a moderator, so you have no say over what gets discussed. As the NYT noted in their article, the pros are bigger stars than the celebrities now anyway. As for the skating fans on the other board I frequent, they're a lot better sample size than this board of what real viewers things, as each episode's thread is over a thousand posts. There's a much bigger chunk of the general viewing publilc on there and they're by and large sick of the blatant producer interference. Also there is much regret Val's off. Not his girl, just him.)

[fascination]

agree about the high score and the encore issue, would have preffered JR for that....

as to issues of moderation, um...yes, let's keep it civil

[Purr]

I thought JR had the best performance last week.

I didn't think Ricki's jive was all that great to rate the top score and encore. She didn't have the knee action or other jive technique I thought she have. I wasn't impressed with Derek's choreography either.

I haven't been impressed with a lot of the pro's choreography so far. The tendency seems to have a big fluffy entrance; extravagent props; lots of shimmies, twirls and gimmicks in the middle to make up for a lack of real dance steps; and then a big fluffy finish. It dumbs down the dancing, so it speak, at least in my opinion. It's ok to make the dance fun, but let's have some real dancing, people.

I'm also less than impressed when a pro deliberately flouts the rules, for example Mark Ballas breaking hold in the middle of the quickstep.

[danceronice]

I am kind of hoping that at least was one reason Len gave Nancy a high score for QS that was about what it should be for her age and experience (ie okay for bronze)--closed hold, quick entrance/finish, no props. I don't mind when they use a chair, or start an AT at a cafe table or something, but some of these routines have gotten ridiculous with sets that wouldn't be out of place in a high-school theater production. Like Val and Elisabetta's first routine. Not only is it silly, it eats up a lot of time.

[gingerbread]

Weren't you all just sick of the whining by the celebrity-students? I wanted to shout at Elisabetta and Nancy when they refused to try what their pros wanted. i try as hard as I can every second of every lesson. They are so spoiled, and rude. Glad Elisabetta is out. Flabbergasted Nancy would get such a good score. Me, I loved JR. Period.And Hope for good attitude. By the way, follow-up article in today's New York Times that, uh-oh, DWTS' ratings dropped even further this second week and ABC not happy. Much as I complain, I would be sad if the show is cancelled.Even though Val is out, I am sure they will feature him as much as possible amytime there is a chance for pros to dance.
I don't understand why people are upset with Derek. I have read the comments and don't get it. I think he is super talented, adorable and entertaining, and he tries to teach whomever he has as much as they let him.

[danceronice]

All Derek does is jump around and show off. Plus he usually gets people he doesn't have to teach much. Plus he gets massive amounts of praise from the judges even when it's not warranted. What seems to really hack a LOT of people I talk with off is it's often been at the expense of pros like Tony, Louis, Anna, and ESPECIALLY Maks, who's a huge favorite but has never won and never been handed an outright ringer. The season with Nicole, with the judges flat-out calling her the winner before the others even danced, pretty much capped it for a lot of people. Derek is clearly in with the producers--they obviously think he's the money-maker. That really gets on people's nerves.

I didn't really think Nancy was whining. It looked more like a BSOD (Blue Screen of Death) moment. Like an "OMG what am I doing here I suck and I am never going to get this and everyone will think I suck" freeze-up. I didn't see Elisabetta's pre-dance segment, so I don't know if she was whining, she just wasn't very good and in front of the judges she looked sour. Nancy took critiques graciously (which doesn't surprise me as older contestants seem to.) And of course, Elisabetta has no fan base. Nancy has a huge show on another network, annoying as the rest of us might find it (and I don't even disagree with her necessarily, I think Casey Anthony's guilty, too, but yeesh, lady, the law is what it is) while Elisabetta is basically the girl who got dumped by George Clooney. I thought Val would carry her a little farther, but apparently not.

And I think Len scored Nancy high like it says upthread--to make a point they are getting too carried away with goofiness and props and ignoring what the dance is supposed to look like (in QS's case, in hold the entire time.)

[fascination]

I think all of the pros do whatever they can to make their students look as good as possible, including occasionally diverting attention to themselves...as to their merits as teachers, I doubt any of them will be worse for how far their students did or didn't get on this show

[AStarDanced27]

I have to agree with gingerbread; it makes me really angry to see the celebs shut down and refuse to try what their pro is suggesting. I think Nancy Grace's moment was related to being overwhelmed and frustrated, but she could have handled it with much more grace (pun sort of intended).

Yes, grueling practices that last for hours can be exhausting, mentally and physically, especially for people who have never danced before. But be grateful - you're getting the chance to work with an amazing professional dancer, who does this for a living and loves it. I would kill to have that kind of opportunity.

Totally going to put it out there that they should do a spin-off where they pick college students instead of celebrities to partner with pros. Partially for my own selfish reasons, and partially because I think it'd be quite entertaining.

[ash_sk8s]

Yay for showing Hope at my town's soccer field!!! I so wish I had gone to the game.

[ash_sk8s]

yeah, big dittoes, and nor do I care what figure skaters think about the pros, so it would be really great if those repeated comments and snarky words were eliminated here.


The other figure skater here wants to know what the means exactly...

[Casey]

I am not sure why people keep bashing Elisabetta for just being George Clooney's ex. She has a career in Italy that is certainly as good as Brooke Burke's is here. She was not as good a dancer as Brooke was, true. And I haven't seen a lot of the rehearsal clips, so it's hard to know when she and Val got into such a negative place with each other. But I'm not sure we can judge based on the few clips we have been shown. I know, for example, that my teacher would never have come off with that kind of vibe with her.

[NonieS]

The other figure skater here wants to know what the means exactly...

Not taking sides here, but I think that it was in reference to DOI's relaying what people at FSU were saying about DWTS rather than a jab at people on this board who also figure skate.

[nikkitta]

Correct, I don't care if FSU hates Derek, or XYZ hates another pro. IMO it's not relevant here. If you are a ballroom dancer and a figure skater and happen to hate Derek, it's still not really necessary to mention that either. Saying "Pro B's waltz was rather disappointing; the hold and footwork was horrible" is not the same as "Pro B and his partner always get higher marks and it's not fair because I really hate him and so does FSU and XYZ".
Whatever. Back to lurking :cool:
My main enjoyment is seeing people who have never experienced ballroom fall in love with it. I can really live without the other drama.

[nucat78]

Weren't you all just sick of the whining by the celebrity-students?

Stop watching. (Or DVR it and fast forward to just the dancing.)

[danceronice]

Not taking sides here, but I think that it was in reference to DOI's relaying what people at FSU were saying about DWTS rather than a jab at people on this board who also figure skate.

Easily solved with the ignore list, which that poster's now on. Such a useful feature.

And I skip half the "entertainment" (ie filler) segments and just watch the dancing and the judges most nights. Though results night that is difficult. (The "Cribz" segment was rather painful...)

[JudeMorrigan]

Easily solved with the ignore list, which that poster's now on. Such a useful feature.

And I skip half the "entertainment" (ie filler) segments and just watch the dancing and the judges most nights. Though results night that is difficult. (The "Cribz" segment was rather painful...)
I always thought it was great for the results shows. I could blast through those in 15 minutes, easy, and not feel like I missed anything. Alas, I cancelled my directv, figuring that was money that could be better spent on dancing, so I no longer have a dvr. It makes watching the show take a whole lot longer. ;)

And fwiw, I don't have a thing to do with figure skating (in fact, I'd been confusedly parsing FSU as Florida State University), and I quite agree with you on Derrick. He still annoys me less than Mark though.

[NonieS]

Easily solved with the ignore list, which that poster's now on. Such a useful feature.


OT, I didn't even realize you could put posters on an ignore list.... that makes things interesting.

Sorry for hijacking, mods.

[nucat78]

[...] I no longer have a dvr. It makes watching the show take a whole lot longer. ;)

abc.com

You can fast forward there as well and the commercials seem to be limited.

Not sure about hulu.com - it's been awhile...

[danceronice]

I don't have DVR, but I mentally tune out (or play my own music LOUD.) Or channel surf. Of course the easiest solution of all is the 8pm hour on Tuesdays--in a contest of DWTS versus NCIS? No contest at all. NCIS wins.

[shimkirina]

I don't have DVR, but I mentally tune out (or play my own music LOUD.) Or channel surf. Of course the easiest solution of all is the 8pm hour on Tuesdays--in a contest of DWTS versus NCIS? No contest at all. NCIS wins.

Nice! I like NCIS too :)

[RickRS]

the most hilarious part of the night was when Nancy Grace fell out of her costume several times... and the best they could think of to do was cut to scenes of the audience not clapping and looking like they were at a funeral... when you could hear the applause in the background! hahaha
I had no idea what was going on at that time and to me it was like, "What? Half the audience hates Nancy to the point they won't clap?" Later I hear about the nip-slip and still didn't make that connection to the stoned face audience. So thanks for clearing that up.

[RickRS]

However, I think the level of dancing is considerably lower this season than in previous seasons. Or is it only me? I am not a ballroom dancer and cannot judge technique, but tonight it seemed to me that all except JR Martinez had a hard time making it through. It was painful to watch them for the most part.

...JR Martinez all the way!!!!

Maybe just you (as to the level of dance). My recollection of the past seasons is we've alway had a lot of bad dancing for the first two weeks. When we get to the halfway mark, the worst dancers are gone and the "stars" have improved some more.

[Griffico]

Maybe just you (as to the level of dance). My recollection of the past seasons is we've alway had a lot of bad dancing for the first two weeks. When we get to the halfway mark, the worst dancers are gone and the "stars" have improved some more.

Agreed! I think there's a bit more talent this season than there has been (especially the last two seasons), and I'm really excited to see what JR and Chynna can do. Just in my opinion, I think JR has the potential to be the best male celebrity ever on the show...

[Griffico]

Thoughts on last night:

The 'stories' thing is an easy way to introduce Rumba as a dance, but once you set up stories like that it's really hard to tell somebody they didn't live up to their own life's most inspirational moment.

Hope/Maks - Hope, you need to learn how to close your legs dearie. It was kind of awkward again, but not over the top wrong I guess.

Ricki/Derek - I thought she did a good job, but also got a bit overrated. No way was this better than Chynna's.

Kristin/Mark - Mark's back in my doghouse for choreography... What the heck kind of samba was that?

Chynna/Tony - Loved it, and was surprised at how well she moved. I was hoping for a little more hip action though..

Nancy/Tristan - Looked like Tristan was dragging around a lump of clay, but it wasn't awful I guess.

David A/Kym - I can't get a read on this guy. I kind of like him, kind of don't. He appears to be trying really hard, so I'll certainly give him credit for that.

Rob/Cheryl - It was an impressive effort in basic foxtrot, though they spent far too much time diddling around on the stairs.

JR Martinez/Karina - I was once again impressed with his musicality and lines, but I'm not a fan of all the posing. Too much standing around for his ability...

Carson/Anna - I'm not sure I've ever seen a dance so bipolar... it was kind of crisp on the legs, but fantastically wacky up top (and sometimes completely the other way around, yet somehow it kind of worked. I'm still not sure how he managed to dip himself!

Chaz/Lacey - The judges need to stop giving him softball comments. He's got a background nobody wants to offend and bum knees, but that can't be an excuse for showing so little improvement (especially in the upper body). He's already defeated Val and Elisabetta, and if he goes on again tonight he'll be beating somebody who doesn't deserve to go home yet.

[danceronice]

I thought Ricki had the best rumba legs/feet, at least of the women, but she lacked the stretch through the body (NOT the back, Bruno) as much as anyone else they called on it, yet the judges let it slide.

I thought JR was clearly best. Excellent lines and he danced head to toe.

Nancy had a nice bronze routine. Not flashy, but appropriate for her age and (true) skill level.

Chaz was awful. I appreciate he's trying, but he just isn't any good. However, his "fans" and people who want to make a sociopolitical point will keep voting for him.

Hope...Maks isn't getting that mirror ball this time. She really needs to learn to relax. And over on his blog for ABC Louis van Amstel called it, with apologies, "a bit butch." It was uncomfortable to watch.

Kristen: what a joke of a 'special memory.' I realize not everyone can have a truly tragic or joyful memory (and let's face it, as far as having a good story goes, the minute JR's began "I was driving a Humvee in Iraq" he won that contest) but gee, what a tragedy, school or celebrity. And it's not street dancing during Carinvale, it's ballroom samba. Do it.

David: What on earth were those scores for? He should be in the bottom with Chaz. That was him standing around while Kym spun really fast.

Chynna: I was holding my breath because she seemed so nervous, but I had to wonder if it's distracting trying to dance while the band tackles YOUR song. If she just lets the nerves go she would do so, so well...

Rob: Okay, my surprise of the night! I was thoroughly charmed. Like Nancy, it wasn't really any more than it really should be (a nice bronze-quality routine) and yet he was engaging, appealing, and clearly trying. I loathe the Kardashians and their reality-tv empire but I found him very appealing last night.

Carson: His legs were decent, his topline is TERRIBLE, and he keeps doing odd things with his hands (like he keeps forgetting they're attached or something)...but I don't care, he's so much fun. I was thoroughly entertained. He is clearly just having FUN, which I think makes the difference between him and David and Chaz, whom I think are the other weakest links (with Nancy, like Carson, enjoying herself and putting herself up with him.) David and Chaz do not look happy, they look nervous, stresed, etc. Nancy looks like she's having a good time, and Carson is just bringing the party! Same thing happened with Rob last night, none of them are the class of the field but those three seemed really glad to be out there. David and Chaz seemed uncomfortable.

[TinyDancer109]

i looooove carson!!!!! <3

And as much as i truly dislike Kim Kardashian, i think i'm falling for her brother!! =P

[Wannabee]

I must say I am very shocked that Kristin went home last night. I didn't think she was to be in the running for the finals or anything, but honestly, I thought Hope was toast (and probably should have been). I'm not sorry that Maks is still around though. I didn't particularly like Kristin's dancing, but I thought there were others that were much worse.

Anyhow, I'm liking Chyna, JR, and Ricki for the finals based on what I've seen so far. And I'm really hoping that Tony gets his first mirror ball this season.

[danceronice]

I know I'm not the only person (we basically liveblog it on FSU with running commentary posts) who just completely forgot Kristen was there last night, which is usually IME a bad sign for someone vote-wise--if I totally forget they're even on the show, that usually means other voters aren't remembering them either. (Seriously, someone posted "I forgot about Kristen" and my first thought was "Kristen who?")

[kurisutina]

Who else was really excited when Val and Daria performed last night? Samba was an odd choice for the song but they totally rocked it! I almost didn't recognize Daria with her hair loose--she looked absolutely stunning. It's really such a pity that they aren't competing together anymore... Seeing them dance at Nationals up close as a spectator this past year was really inspiring. I was a bit confused at first when they were introduced as the "U.S. Latin champions" but I suppose most wouldn't have known the difference between pro and amateur.

That aside, I'm not really surprised to see Kristen go home, despite the fact that she wasn't the worst dancer. Like someone else mentioned, fairly forgettable, and the least relatable for Monday's theme. As a fan, I'm happy that Maks and Hope made it to the next round, though she will need to step it up a lot.

[davedove]

I must say I am very shocked that Kristin went home last night. I didn't think she was to be in the running for the finals or anything, but honestly, I thought Hope was toast (and probably should have been). I'm not sorry that Maks is still around though. I didn't particularly like Kristin's dancing, but I thought there were others that were much worse.

Anyhow, I'm liking Chyna, JR, and Ricki for the finals based on what I've seen so far. And I'm really hoping that Tony gets his first mirror ball this season.

You're making the mistake of thinking it's about the dancing. It's all about the fan base and in the first few weeks, if you don't have the fan base, you go home. If you make it through those first weeks, then it becomes more about the dancing, but fan base still counts for a lot.

[Mengu]

Anna is brilliant. She led Carson through a majority of that tango, and I was smiling/laughing (in an entertained sort of way) the whole time. Props to Carson for being a good follow.

[danceronice]

You're making the mistake of thinking it's about the dancing. It's all about the fan base and in the first few weeks, if you don't have the fan base, you go home. If you make it through those first weeks, then it becomes more about the dancing, but fan base still counts for a lot.

Fan base + entertainment value. I wouldn't say I'm part of Carson's fan base but he just cracks me up. Likewise I was voting for Kyle both for dancing and because he just was a pleasure to watch. I've never seen a thing he's done acting-wise as I'm not hte Disney Channel demo. If someone comes on without a huge fan base but people enjoy them, they vote.

[davedove]

Fan base + entertainment value. I wouldn't say I'm part of Carson's fan base but he just cracks me up. Likewise I was voting for Kyle both for dancing and because he just was a pleasure to watch. I've never seen a thing he's done acting-wise as I'm not hte Disney Channel demo. If someone comes on without a huge fan base but people enjoy them, they vote.

Very true, likability is a big factor, all the way through the competition. Although I don't vote for these things, I was rooting for Kyle the whole time because he was fun to watch and did a good job.

[gingerbread]

How does one access Louis's blog?

[Beto]

How does one access Louis's blog?
Google helps. :-)

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/entertainment/2011/10/louis-van-amstels-dancing-with-the-stars-dish-week-3/

[gingerbread]

Thank you.

[salsera_alemana]

Could the ballroom dancers here please explain what justified 2x10 for Ricky compared to only 9/9/8 for JR? I thought that JR was so much better than the other stars who got 8s. Ricky looked good but was she really so much better than everybody else?

My favorite was JR and I think Carson is always hilarious! He makes me laugh! I hope he will stay for a while because of his entertainment factor.

[nikkitta]

Frankly I thought the evening was doomed as soon as they awarded "7"s to Chynna. She bombed. It was painful to see - you could tell as she was dancing that she knew she blew it - but it was not worthy of the scores she received, so I couldn't help but wonder if the subsequent scores were inflated because of it. I did not feel Ricki's dance was perfect, but it was very good. It looked like there was too much space between her and Derek at times, particularly in promenade, and I'm not sure she's 100% in control all the time. Derek seems to overpower her. For JR, the major thing that stood out to me was his hand styling. It didn't match the rest of his fluid body movement. But my goodness, that was a lovely flowing foxtrot, and that ain't easy. So, Ricki and JR were pretty evenly matched IMO, but I don't feel either of them deserved to see the "10" paddles just yet. Relative to Chynna, however, I can understand scoring a "10".

[duffypratt]

They are setting this up for a finale between Rikki and JR, with JR winning it. Her overinflated scores now will later lead to "disappointing" results, as JR pulls ahead. Keeping JR in second or third at this point is actually a good thing for him. The only other one with a chance is Hope, but I wouldn't count on it unless she dramatically improves.

[danceronice]

The only thing that could justify a ten is rewarding DEREK for choreographing to a tricky piece of music, not Ricki's dancing which was only okay. (And Psycho's not meant for dance. That was a rough piece to give anyone, that and the utterly undanceable Raiders March/Indiana Jones theme.)

JR's marks were toal BS--Carrie Anne essentially said there was no difference between his performance and Rob's. Her judging was outright insane on most people and Len's was wonky at times as well (I don't remember who it was but at one point CA and Len were both gushing and BRUNO of all people was the voice of reason, though apparently that was more his thing on SCD anyway and he plays up the wackiness for DWTS.)

Another WTFery was Carson (who wasn't great technically but once again was the best showman of the night) being tied with Chynna, who was absurdly overscored. She choked worse than I've seen real-life newcomer competitors ever choke and basically didn't complete her dance, and that got 7s? In Carrie Anne's mind that was only one point worse than JR?

I have to assume (going by the BS scores and the busy signals) that JR has a HUGE lead in the phone-in votes and they don't want to give him a runaway. I'd guess Carson has much bigger numbers, too, and they would rather keep Hope around (they were certainly peeved about loosing Reality Girl, whose name I can't be bothered to remember at this point so they apparently really want to hang on to a young hot female) than Carson or Nancy and only want Chaz for the "controversy" (which by this point is a nonissue) and his mother.

[salsera_alemana]

The only thing that could justify a ten is rewarding DEREK for choreographing to a tricky piece of music, not Ricki's dancing which was only okay. (And Psycho's not meant for dance. That was a rough piece to give anyone, that and the utterly undanceable Raiders March/Indiana Jones theme.)

JR's marks were toal BS--Carrie Anne essentially said there was no difference between his performance and Rob's. Her judging was outright insane on most people and Len's was wonky at times as well (I don't remember who it was but at one point CA and Len were both gushing and BRUNO of all people was the voice of reason, though apparently that was more his thing on SCD anyway and he plays up the wackiness for DWTS.)

Another WTFery was Carson (who wasn't great technically but once again was the best showman of the night) being tied with Chynna, who was absurdly overscored. She choked worse than I've seen real-life newcomer competitors ever choke and basically didn't complete her dance, and that got 7s? In Carrie Anne's mind that was only one point worse than JR?

I have to assume (going by the BS scores and the busy signals) that JR has a HUGE lead in the phone-in votes and they don't want to give him a runaway. I'd guess Carson has much bigger numbers, too, and they would rather keep Hope around (they were certainly peeved about loosing Reality Girl, whose name I can't be bothered to remember at this point so they apparently really want to hang on to a young hot female) than Carson or Nancy and only want Chaz for the "controversy" (which by this point is a nonissue) and his mother.

Thanks, danceronice and all others who have responded to my question. Although I cannot judge the technique of ballroom dances, I thought that JR looked very good in his foxtrott, he has nice lines, a great feel for the music and always looks elegant.

I haven't voted for ages, but now I "digged" for my user credentials for the abc site so that I can vote for JR!

[Griffico]

I agree that JR's Foxtrot was under-scored, but I can sort of see where Carrie-Ann was coming from with the lack of entertainment. She obviously doesn't just look at technique and appears to not have any idea how hard that dance is to do. Between that and the lift (hooray for lift police.. oy) it makes sense that she would give him the scores she did.

Ricki on the other hand was gifted with some intense-looking choreography to go with a powerful song, and she did a pretty good job with it, so I can see why she got the highest marks. Still, it does all seem a bit over-inflated... Sabrina Bryan is the only other contestant I can think of who had better scores this early on.

Can we (and by 'we' I mean the judges) please stop sugarcoating Chaz's dancing? There was definite improvement, but it still wasn't anywhere close to anybody else's..

[Griffico]

Another WTFery was Carson (who wasn't great technically but once again was the best showman of the night) being tied with Chynna, who was absurdly overscored. She choked worse than I've seen real-life newcomer competitors ever choke and basically didn't complete her dance, and that got 7s? In Carrie Anne's mind that was only one point worse than JR?


Remember she is also the lift police... gotta go after those unsightly lifts!

[sambanada]

I was happy to see Cher supporting her son last night

[Another Elizabeth]

I agree that JR's Foxtrot was under-scored, but I can sort of see where Carrie-Ann was coming from with the lack of entertainment. She obviously doesn't just look at technique and appears to not have any idea how hard that dance is to do. Between that and the lift (hooray for lift police.. oy) it makes sense that she would give him the scores she did.

There was no lift. I remember commenting during the dance that Karina was keeping that foot nailed to the floor this time.

I loved JRs foxtrot, and was kind of meh on Ricki's tango, although I will agree that that was very difficult music.

[TAK]

I'm not sure I thought Ricki was 2 points better than JR, but I do think they were about even, and I was pretty impressed by both of them. To me, Ricki looks like a pretty competent ballroom dancer, not just someone whose pro is carrying her around, which is unusual on this show. Her technique appears to be decent and her movement across the floor is better than most of the other contestants'. So, I do feel like I "get" the enthusiasm about her. Like Len, I would have given both her and JR 9's.

[danceronice]

I think Derek and Kym should have a chat with the music people--Derek made it work, with a reverse-lit scrim/shadow puppet thing, but David's "Indy" number....yeah. Also if I were in Nancy's shoes I would have said "If I have to dance to a Queen song from a semi-obscure SF movie, can't it be "Princes of the Universe" from Highlander?"

And I agree, I think they need to stop propping Chaz up. I feel for the guy but he's not even up there with Carson and Chynna (and Carson at least is a pleasure to watch, no technik or not.)

[fascination]

for me, JR and Ricky are the only two to watch...I have no clue what carrie ann was drinking wrt her comments on his foxtrot...I thought carson was adorable and that Hope, given all of her advantages better step it up or I'd be getting rid of her for squandering the advantages that she should have and I was glad that len ripped her a new one on that..and I hope that, now that cher has made an appearance (and a rather sad puffy plasticized one at that....which is a thought I have been having about kim lately as well, btw :( , unless I was just imagining it in my tequila induced post lesson exhaustion)...anyhow, now that cher has made her apprearance, it is time for chaz to go

[danceronice]

I wish the voters got your memo, fasc. Was not surprised or disappointed with the choice to go tonight but all three who were "in jeopardy" have been better overall than Chaz. Carson's no great technician either but at least I find him fun to watch and he's clearly loving every minute.

[davedove]

I wish the voters got your memo, fasc. Was not surprised or disappointed with the choice to go tonight but all three who were "in jeopardy" have been better overall than Chaz. Carson's no great technician either but at least I find him fun to watch and he's clearly loving every minute.

I wasn't surprised Chynna went home either; she had a horrible week. That's one reason I don't like the elimination format. She was actually a fair dancer and I would have liked to see what she could do. Of course, I have to say that to me, she just didn't exude a likability; she always seemed cool and reserved, no personality.

And yeah, Chaz needs to go. I agree with what a local radio personality said around here: it's no longer Dancing with the Stars, it's Dancing with a Platform.

[TinyDancer109]

cant believe Chaz wasnt even in the bottom 2!!! people - it's a DANCE contest!! no need to be politically correct!

[TinyDancer109]

cant believe Chaz wasnt even in the bottom 2!!! people - it's a DANCE contest!! no need to be politically correct!

so i asked myself why is it that, for me, it is ok for Carson to stay and Chaz must go..

I decided that it's in the essence of dance. Chaz was ok, considering everything, in the beginning - but now i really dont enjoy watching him - hes forgettable, and, at times, difficult to watch.

Carson, on the other hand, technique or not, is an absolute joy to watch. You can SEE the joy exuding from him, the joy in his soul, and in turn brings out the joy in me. Isn't that, essentially, what dance is about??

[danceronice]

Carson, on the other hand, technique or not, is an absolute joy to watch. You can SEE the joy exuding from him, the joy in his soul, and in turn brings out the joy in me. Isn't that, essentially, what dance is about??

That's why I'm okay with Carson staying and think he should be scored well above Chaz. I'm also fine with Nancy (I can identify with her, plus, this is ballroom and I'm nepostistically voting for the pro I know), and really even Rob or David over Chaz because while I don't enjoy any of them as much as Carson and all of them are clearly fighting for third (which Hope will probably get unless she does what Chynna did and completely chokes) they all seem to be happy to be there and like the experience. Chaz doesn't make me happy to watch and I didn't believe a word of "I feel great."

(And it has nothing to do with weight. No, he's not physically appealing to look at, but Kyle had a bit of pudge too a few seasons back and I was rooting for him for the win because he not only pulled off some technique, he was just so joyful to watch doing it.)

[Leon Theou]

cant believe Chaz wasnt even in the bottom 2!!! people - it's a DANCE contest!! no need to be politically correct!

It's not, and really never has been totally a dance contest. It's equally about who can build support from the public. One of the better ways to build that support is by being a good dancer, but having a good story, or being attractive enough (or your pro) that people will want to see you in skimpy Latin costumes/shirtless is just as strong a way of getting votes. Spectacular dancing can save an unpopular celeb, but so can popular support save a mediocre dancer. Also, never discount schadenfreude as a motive.

[TinyDancer109]

IMO, at some point the lack of entertainment outweighs the biased support...

For example, as much as i like Hope because i am her soccer fan (biased support), if she doesnt get better soon i wont be rooting for her (lack of entertainment outweighing).

By the same logic, Chaz should NOT be there anymore.

[duffypratt]

cant believe Chaz wasnt even in the bottom 2!!! people - it's a DANCE contest!! no need to be politically correct!

They rarely say who is in the bottom two. It's entirely possible for a person in "jeopardy" to have a higher score than others who are safe. That's one of the games that the producers play. If they think that someone should stay on, but is not getting the votes that they would expect, then they might put that person in the "bottom two" in the hope that that will wake up the fan base.

[mazharshah]

Well Please letting me know that from where can i get an opportunity of dance with American stars?..;)


Thanks
Mazhar

[Ray Sison]

imo, at some point the lack of entertainment outweighs the biased support...

For example, as much as i like hope because i am her soccer fan (biased support), if she doesnt get better soon i wont be rooting for her (lack of entertainment outweighing).

By the same logic, chaz should not be there anymore.

+1...

[fascination]

JR was so adorable in the practice "I dont count 'ands" between my numbers " :)


and then did so well

[fascination]

and chaz wins most improved in my view...I think Len must just have a crush on Nancy b/c I thought her rumba was lame

[danceronice]

I'm actually over Rob, but also tired of Chaz (his best is still worst overall by a country mile). But I'm kind of wondering if it would be a shocking elimination of Hope--she went early, the forgetful spot, and it wasn't really very good at all. Looked to me like Maks was having to haul her around, and her upper body was really bad. For an athlete, she's really done rather poorly overall (though if she's doing her full soccer schedule and this she might be tiring herself out.)

[Keithers]

I found the clips of Hope and Maks rehearsing for tonight's performance more than a little disturbing. It looks like they're in a full-blown power struggle and this won't end well, on the dance floor and off.

In his (sincere) belief that Hope is a beautiful, sexy woman who just needs to let that side of her out, Maks seems to be battering her (psychologically) to "just do it."

I understand that it must be very frustrating for him, but I wonder if he realizes that there are all sorts of pressures on Hope -- both internal and external -- to NOT get in touch with her feminine, sensuous side and let it out.

- She's a tomboy and always has been.
- Her life is dedicated to a sport in which feminine and sensuous are not prized. In the uber-tough world of world class women's soccer, those qualities are like "hen's teeth" -- they're very hard to find because they're not there or they're buried very deeply or they're suppressed or hidden.
- And she's a goalkeeper, for cryin' out loud. Her job is to be tough and intense and intimidating and to present nothing that could come across as a weakness or potential weakness. As she said in Week 1, "I'm a tough and intense goalkeeper." That's her identity.
- Yes, Hope is a beautiful woman (strikingly so, imo), but if you look at what she and her teammate were wearing in, say, her appearance on David Letterman after the World Cup, you'll get a sense of how far her normal world is from the glamour and style of DWTS and ballroom dance.

I'd very much like to see Maks take a different approach. The one he's using is clearly not working -- and it's very painful for both of them and very painful for us to watch.

[Keithers]

** Not for publication **

Hi Moderator,

I just posted re Hope and Maks and I hope you will approve it. If you object to it for some reason, please save a copy for me before you delete it.

Many thanks,

Keithers

[Keithers]

^^ Ok, this post became visible immediately. I guess I don't know how the system works yet. :oops:

[SDsalsaguy]

** Not for publication **

Hi Moderator,

I just posted re Hope and Maks and I hope you will approve it. If you object to it for some reason, please save a copy for me before you delete it.

Many thanks,

Keithers^^ Ok, this post became visible immediately. I guess I don't know how the system works yet. :oops:
No worries Keithers. In short, as a newer member the software system here automatically scans through your posts. Longer posts sometimes trip the "review" trigger even when there aren't any problems, so (1) your post was just waiting on administrative review, and (2) has now been approved. :)

...and lest I forget: welcome to DF!!! :cheers:

[Keithers]

No worries Keithers. In short, as a newer member the software system here automatically scans through your posts. Longer posts sometimes trip the "review" trigger even when there aren't any problems, so (1) your post was just waiting on administrative review, and (2) has now been approved. :)

...and lest I forget: welcome to DF!!! :cheers:
Thanks much, SDsalsaguy, for the explanation and the welcome. :)

Cheers!

[fascination]

Hope is disappointing, but, given her tough back ground, she should be far less likely to be poorly affected by a hard--- coach...I think you are being too kind...she's just not very good at all...and I wanted her to be because I am totally over the pretty girly girls winning or getting too far because of it...I really like her but she is epic fail...with no good excuse...Rob, otoh is improved....I don't see Hope improving and that is unfortunate

[fascination]

also...that is why I have changed my mind about Carson, it is now clear to me that he has no intention of improving ONLY of having fun...

lastly, welcometo df keithers

[TinyDancer109]

I actually thought that Carson DID improve technically... maybe not as visibly as others, but he also isnt as naturally talented to pick it up as quickly as others... i imagine he is the type that spends loads of time just learning the choreo. not to mention he was learning JIVE, so any improvement is a huge deal. small improvement technically + fun factor = should stay over Chaz who is horrendously boring to watch, IMO. But ABC clearly is pulling for Carson to go home. I thought both Chaz and Nancy were over scored and praised too much.

MY choice for the bottom 3:
Chaz
Nancy
Hope

[danceronice]

I would rather watch Nancy and Carson than Hope and Chaz. I do think, if as I've heard Hope is still in full practice for soccer, too, she may just be too tired and stressed to really improve. But still, she was just sloppy last night. Chaz is incredibly dull to watch. Nancy looks to me like a real bronze beginner, which I always approve of since it indicates she's actuall learning a bit and being taught correctly (and of course I can sympathize with heard 'be over your own foot!') And, again, Carson is just purely entertaining.

Really, I'd LIKE Rob to go, as I find him clunky and weirdly gropey. Plus, can I please have at least one show that's Kardashian-free? I swear, every time I turn around they're sneaking onto ANOTHER TV show.

And I wonder, is it something about Derek that all his partners end up crying about how harrrrd it is and how much pressure they're under? Suck it up. Also, had to laugh about Derek saying "Oh, the music's not good for foxtrot." Nice to see you've finally found out what all the other pros have dealt with getting random songs that have nothing to do with the dance style--ask your sister, wasn't it, about trying to tango to Jessie's Girl. That and Ricki's scores (trying to set up a 'from defeat to victory' arc for her, as they were bizarrely low--she got totally lowballed compared to Rob and David-if they had 8s, she should have had all 9s as her wonky part was still better than Rob's entire dance) suggest to me JR's running away with the viewer votes and they're trying really hard to make a race of it with Ricki the best candidate.

[jmuise]

I don't know why Carson is still on that show other than he adds the most humor to the show. He certainly cannot dance to save his soul! I think it will come down to Ricki and JR. Of course who knows with the audience vote. It could be anyone!

[fascination]

Carson..I didn't see an imporvement and I saw him basically commit to the idea tat it wasn't that big a deal...and I don't see anna really even bothering....I like him alot, don't get me wrong, but I don't see him caring earnestly to improve, and that should be the diea in a contest

Nancy--even a beggining bronze dancer should be able to effect SOME cuban motion...she had nothing...I applauded her quickstep, her rumba was pathetic...but I still respect her desire to do well, but have a major issue with her lack of respect for her pro

Rob...while I too get a rash over the Kardashians and thei love affair with the camera, I still think rob is trying hard,and improving...and not being the smart aleck punk that e usually is

chaz is normall dull, last week he was a bit mor animated but tstill stunk, this week e stayed animated and actually displayed some technique...enough to stay " dunno, but I thought he was significantly improved and unlike last week, deserved okay marks this week

Hope--no woman that tough and that fit should have to be dragged along in her routine....she doesn't have performance, she, doesn't ave technique, and she has every possible advantage...she needs to figure it out or go...I don't see her heart in it

[fascination]

I did think ricky was sub par last night and derek (whom I like) sounded a tad petulent whining about the song

[danceronice]

Derek gets petulant very easily (see his temper tantrum with Shannon.)

But his whining aside, Ricki still got lowballed there. I don't see any improvement from Rob and his gropey hands bug me. David, maybe, but how was Ricki THAT much worse than she was last week? I'm not saying it should have gotten tens or anything, but it was hardly a midpack performance.

And it'll be JR and Ricki for the final, that's been pretty clear. Remember, no one ever knows what the vote tallies really are so the producers could ignore them completely or just change the scoring system for the final two weeks like with Nicole's season os the judges can determine the winner. At this point or next week it kind of doesn't matter who goes, the final two are pretty set. I am starting to really think tonight might be Hope's night to go, actually.

I don't find Nancy's attitude a problem. But I'm used to sassing back and actually won't put up with stick-up-the-rear teachers (and I get saying "Please stop talking at me while we're dancing." I tune out pros who try to teach and move at the same time. Dance it, stop, explain, dance. Don't make me try to process what you're saying while we're moving.) I find Hope actually more of a problem as she doesn't seem to WANT to get it, but again that might be overscheduling. This isn't really a show you can do while keeping a full schedule with your normal life.

[Griffico]

As much as Derek sounded petulant, he was right. I wish the pros would be more vocal about when their music sucks, to be honest. It would save us the pain of having to reconcile some weird music/dance combinations :P

That being said, I thought they did a pretty good job all things considered. The song begged for some (not necessarily all) of the stuff the judges were getting on them about, and I thought it was decent choreography. I wouldn't have thought this was the case if you'd turned off the music and just had to watch them that way.

At this point as long as Ricki and JR stick around, I won't have any qualms with other people leaving. Just based on a lack of improvement I would like to see Hope, Carson or Nancy leave. If you asked me about actual dancing I'd go with Chaz, though there was visible improvement for him this week so I'm not as down on him as normal.

Did anyone else think JR's samba timing was weird? I thought the movement and the choreography was fun, but when I related it to the music it didn't seem quite right and I can't place exactly why.

[TinyDancer109]

hahaha i wonder if Harold Wheeler took offense to Derek's comment since this is the second week in a row Derek has had a complaint and been blunt about it....none of the other pros complain about their music no matter how sucky... and i believe harold chooses the music if i am not mistaken.

[danceronice]

hahaha i wonder if Harold Wheeler took offense to Derek's comment since this is the second week in a row Derek has had a complaint and been blunt about it....none of the other pros complain about their music no matter how sucky... and i believe harold chooses the music if i am not mistaken.

Not only chooses (I would think the producers and the legal/clearance people have a big say), but has to arrange it for orchestra and singers, since they're playing it live and have to figure out how to perform it. Complaints about the music on the show aside, he actually has a really difficult job. (Though I wish someone would have suggested during movie week they invest in a pitch pipe and tuner for the high winds as they were shriekingly off on some pieces.)

It's less that Derek doesn't have a point than that he's hardly the only one who's ever been given problematic music, and the others have not whined about it right on camera or blamed weak performances/marks on 'well, it was a bad song.' It's in poor taste. Just like a real competition, save it for in private (Maks seems to have learned to do that as he started out being a lot more vocal than he is now.)

[Griffico]

I still say the pros should have some veto power in the music, but if they don't, I think they should film the pros' reactions when they get truly awful music. I would have probably paid money to see Louis Van Amstel's reaction when he was told to do a Foxtrot to "Yankee Doodle Dandy." :)

[duffypratt]

I still say the pros should have some veto power in the music, but if they don't, I think they should film the pros' reactions when they get truly awful music. I would have probably paid money to see Louis Van Amstel's reaction when he was told to do a Foxtrot to "Yankee Doodle Dandy." :)

The music choices can be bizarre at best. Derek's music was pretty bad last night, and unlike with Psycho, there probably not much he could have done to make it fit here. But making Hope dance tango to Bon Jovi was even worse, and I really don't get it. There are tons of fun songs from the 80s that would more naturally fit a tango. Living on a Prayer isn't in the ballpark, not in the same state, and maybe not even on the same planet. (I would have liked to see tango to maybe Blinded Me With Science or Der Kommisar.)

[Another Elizabeth]

I would have probably paid money to see Louis Van Amstel's reaction when he was told to do a Foxtrot to "Yankee Doodle Dandy." :)

:uplaugh:

I could forgive Hope's clunky dancing if she weren't so openly contemptuous of the judges. Honestly, she makes me want to smack her when she's (not) listening to them.

[danceronice]

I still say the pros should have some veto power in the music, but if they don't, I think they should film the pros' reactions when they get truly awful music. I would have probably paid money to see Louis Van Amstel's reaction when he was told to do a Foxtrot to "Yankee Doodle Dandy." :)

That must have been priceless. I do wonder sometimes how many takes they have to do when the pro gets the music....

[TinyDancer109]

he's hardly the only one who's ever been given problematic music, and the others have not whined about it right on camera or blamed weak performances/marks on 'well, it was a bad song.'

normally, i would agree. but this season i do believe it was possibly Chynna (?) that said, "It's difficult because the music isnt the same as we practiced".... or maybe that WAS ricki?? .... lol :confused:

[TinyDancer109]

PS - very sorry to see Carson go. Should have been Chaz.

[danceronice]

EVERY season it would be different music from when they practice, people have said it before. Live is always going to vary from recorded (tempo, balance, etc) and I just hope whoever cuts the CDs for the pros has the good sense to give the the edited-for-time version they'll be using as all the songs are cut down. Just the sound of full orchestra vs. recording could be enough to mess with your head. But it's the same for everyone.

And I thought Hope actually looked let down when she realized she was staying. I think she really doesn't seem to be enjoying herself at this point.

[TinyDancer109]

oh, i agree, regarding the live music.

i will have to watch that part again to see what hope's reaction was.

[Griffico]

Finally saw it over lunch... agreed that Hope looks like she's checked out. Not only did she look bummed that she's not done, I would add that she also looked positively gleeful when she found out she was in jeopardy.

If that's really the case, I wish she would have just quit and let Carson stay. I don't want to watch a broadway-themed dance that she's not into.

[Another Elizabeth]

If that's really the case, I wish she would have just quit and let Carson stay. I don't want to watch a broadway-themed dance that she's not into.

Not to mention, Carson, on Broadway! It would have been fabulous! (Ok, the dancing would still have sucked - but the theme was totally made for him.)

[fascination]

I think it is also possible that Hope that, given her degree of fitness, this was going to be much easier than it actually is....and she doesn't have much time to process through that particular bubble burst

[Leon Theou]

I still say the pros should have some veto power in the music, but if they don't, I think they should film the pros' reactions when they get truly awful music. I would have probably paid money to see Louis Van Amstel's reaction when he was told to do a Foxtrot to "Yankee Doodle Dandy." :)

In one season of Strictly Come Dancing, a couple was assigned a song in 4/4 time for a waltz. In the post-dance interview, the pro basically said 'the biggest difficulty there was that that song was not a waltz, it was not in the right time signature, it was a rumba or a foxtrot.'

[nikkitta]

After seeing the additional behind-the-scenes footage of Hope and Maks, I also feel that she is overwhelmed with not being able to be as good as many had predicted. I can't speak to attitude versus ability, but her being an admitted perfectionist in a highly pressured and emotional situation is tough. I think she expected to be able to dance well and it's not coming easy to her at all, and she's not happy settling for OK-ish dancing like Carson. She almost needs to step back and start over and fix both her mindset and her body's reaction to what it is being asked to do by Maks; but unfortunately there really isn't time for that now...:neutral: Her expression last night to me looked more like "Why the heck can't I do this?!?" than "Whatever. I quit and I just wanna go home."
I don't believe she's a quitter, but I think she unexpectedly found herself in over her head. I imagine it's a painful blow to the ego for an athlete.

Loved seeing Louis and Karina dancing. Very nice.

[Griffico]

After seeing the additional behind-the-scenes footage of Hope and Maks, I also feel that she is overwhelmed with not being able to be as good as many had predicted. I can't speak to attitude versus ability, but her being an admitted perfectionist in a highly pressured and emotional situation is tough. I think she expected to be able to dance well and it's not coming easy to her at all, and she's not happy settling for OK-ish dancing like Carson. She almost needs to step back and start over and fix both her mindset and her body's reaction to what it is being asked to do by Maks; but unfortunately there really isn't time for that now...:neutral: Her expression last night to me looked more like "Why the heck can't I do this?!?" than "Whatever. I quit and I just wanna go home."
I don't believe she's a quitter, but I think she unexpectedly found herself in over her head. I imagine it's a painful blow to the ego for an athlete.

Loved seeing Louis and Karina dancing. Very nice.


Thanks for putting it in perspective... I hope you're right!

[duffypratt]

Athletes have been a very mixed bag on this show. For whatever reason, everyone expected Hope to be really good, and no one had anywhere near that expectation for Ron Artest. I don't understand why. With the skaters and gymnasts, I can understand that they have strong natural advantages from their training. But a soccer goalie? Sure, she might have ended up being a natural dancer too, but there's almost no reason to expect that she would be any better than a Rick Fox or Kurt Warner, etc...

[Another Elizabeth]

But she's a girl! And she's pretty! Obviously she will be a good dancer!

[/sarcasm]

[danceronice]

I think no one had high hopes for World Peace Guy because basketball players seem to have more issues with it than the other athletes. (Also, how seriously can you take a guy who is busy changing his name to Metta World Peace?) There was no frame of reference for a soccer player.

And of course she got assigned to Maks, so I think there's a lot of high hopes for a popular pro to get a really good star. Especially since he's probably the most popular but he's never won. So there's always the "Maybe THIS TIME..." However, apparently not.

[duffypratt]

I think no one had high hopes for World Peace Guy because basketball players seem to have more issues with it than the other athletes. (Also, how seriously can you take a guy who is busy changing his name to Metta World Peace?) There was no frame of reference for a soccer player.

And of course she got assigned to Maks, so I think there's a lot of high hopes for a popular pro to get a really good star. Especially since he's probably the most popular but he's never won. So there's always the "Maybe THIS TIME..." However, apparently not.

Keep in mind that she's a goalie. It doesn't necessarily require the amazing footwork that you see in some other positions in soccer. I agree that pairing her with Maks might have raised some hopes, but maybe the producers have Maks pegged as the Susan Lucci of the show? (Losing 18 Daytime Emmy nominations before finally winning once, and no, I didn't know that she was on DWTS til I just looked her up). But if you are looking for a frame of reference for Hope, it may be that Monica Seles is a better fit than Kristi Yamaguchi.

[danceronice]

Keep in mind that she's a goalie. It doesn't necessarily require the amazing footwork that you see in some other positions in soccer. I agree that pairing her with Maks might have raised some hopes, but maybe the producers have Maks pegged as the Susan Lucci of the show? (Losing 18 Daytime Emmy nominations before finally winning once, and no, I didn't know that she was on DWTS til I just looked her up). But if you are looking for a frame of reference for Hope, it may be that Monica Seles is a better fit than Kristi Yamaguchi.

I doubt most Americans really know enough about playing goalie versus any other position to realize there's any difference, and just assume "athlete" = way more physically fit than 99% of the population. I'd think the producers are probably in that group and don't always know what to expect--I doubt they would deliberately stick Maks with an obvious clunker as he's one of the most vocal about complaining. Unless that's all part of the act, they'd be risking a pro with a big fan base finally saying 'forget this' and walking. Sure, no one other than Edyta cared when Alec left, but Maks? He's got a brand and a fanbase on the show...I really don't think they'd actively decide to really hamstring him. (Now, Tony, on the other hand...at least he seems to have achieved a certain zen about it all.)

[rbazsz]

PS - very sorry to see Carson go. Should have been Chaz.

Carson is so much more fun to watch than Chaz. I'm surprised that Chaz can pull so many votes. Apparently his mother still has a lot of clout!

[Wannabee]

So I'm guessing if you are posting in this thread, you saw the Maks vs the judges fiasco tonight. Wow. I love Maks, always have, always will. But I will admit perhaps he was a bit egotistical (even for Maks) with the whole "this is my show" "I helped make this show what it is", etc. Not that he is wrong about that per se, just a bit pompous. And it was definitely rude what he said to Len. But I was thoroughly entertained, so I guess ABC should be happy.

As far as Len's comments about Hope, I have to agree with him. I took my first ballroom lesson a little over a year ago and all my untrained eye saw was a pedestrian type heel/toe walking motion for Hope. Tons of bent legs and very awkward arms too. She looks like a fish out of water, which she admits. I hope she stays though one more week, just so she doesn't have to end on that note.

[salsera_alemana]

I agree! I also thought Max was very rude to Len and he went on and on! I am not a fan of Max anyway and it is because of his arrogant behavior, it has nothing to do with his dancing.

I would like to make the point again that I cannot judge ballroom technique. I can only say whose dance appealed to me and whose did not. I hope the ballroom experts will also give their opinion and correct me if I am wrong.

I loved JR's and Ricky's quicksteps! I thought there was quite a gap between them and the rest of the pack.

I also loved the broadway music tonight! And I am exited that Kenny Ortega will be on the results show tomorrow.

Now, what justified Carrie Ann giving Nancy a 9 for her foxtrott? Nancy always looks like a dance student who carefully does her steps and at times is pulled or dragged along by Tristan. I did not enjoy her foxtrott at all. I thought she walked a lot instead of dancing. What do the experts say?

I hope that Chaz and Nancy will be in the bottom 2, with Chaz going home (I might be wrong). I am afraid Hope might be there again, too. Admittedly she was not good tonight.

Oh, and wasn't it a shame that we did not see Carson dance broadway? I even gave him a couple of votes last week just to keep him in but my votes apparently did not help.

[fascination]

a) I think Max was out of line...I mean heels leads in latin isn't what I would call nit-picking

b) I find chaz, Hope and Nancy to all have a bit of a sense of entitlement going on and an over inflated sense of how they all did...I will not miss any of them...but I see more effort out of Nancy, much as I don't like her, than I do out of the other two.. though I would say that I think chaz worked closer to his potential than Hope by far...

[Purr]

Now, what justified Carrie Ann giving Nancy a 9 for her foxtrott? Nancy always looks like a dance student who carefully does her steps and at times is pulled or dragged along by Tristan. I did not enjoy her foxtrott at all. I thought she walked a lot instead of dancing. What do the experts say?

Agreed. There's no way Nancy deserved a 9 for that mediocre foxtrot.

[sambanada]

a) I think Max was out of line...I mean heels leads in latin isn't what I would call nit-picking

b) I find chaz, Hope and Nancy to all have a bit of a sense of entitlement going on and an over inflated sense of how they all did...I will not miss any of them...but I see more effort out of Nancy, much as I don't like her, than I do out of the other two.. though I would say that I think chaz worked closer to his potential than Hope by far...

I agree. Max was out of line. He was rude and mean to Len. In addition, the statement that it is his show, and that he made it what it is was disrespectful to all other pros on this show. I was really disappointed.

[kckc]

much as I think Max was out of line, I'm more peeved with Nancy. To demand that Tristan give her harder choreography and then be peeved when he did just that irritated me more than I can say. I've had disagreements with DP, but he would boot me to the curb if I acted like that.

[fascination]

much as I think Max was out of line, I'm more peeved with Nancy. To demand that Tristan give her harder choreography and then be peeved when he did just that irritated me more than I can say. I've had disagreements with DP, but he would boot me to the curb if I acted like that.
yea ...that just killed me...she wanted fancier choreo, not really harder choreo...."oh no not those spin thingeys"...this is what I mean about delusional about her own skill...she decides that she's not doing better because of his choreo? gimme a break....frankly, I loved it that Len, her biggest advocate, nicked her for it this week...I cannot fathom someone at that stage in their dancing mouthing off to their pro about content in that manner....not at any stage, but particularly as a newb

just as I also thought it telling that both chaz and Hope acted as if they got hosed in the judging...

[danceronice]

I don't mind Chaz and Nancy (I think Nancy's just easily frustrated, but unlike Hope she gives credit where it's due and STOPS WHINING) but someone please put Hope out of her and everyone else's misery. I love that in the midst of the group dance the camera caught her doing a Nancy-Kerrigan-at-Disney-World "this is the cheesiest thing I've ever done" eye roll. (I also give Nancy props for trying to save Tristan from a collosally stupid question about how was he liking the show--really, it's his first season, what's he going to say "Man, this sucks, don't have me back?" I'm sure that wasn't Brooke, though, but the producers feeding her questions.)

Buried in the complaining Maks had a valid point--they DON'T always judge equally. Some people are given a great deal more credit for effort while others are judged harder. But lashing out at Len, who not only has the most valid ballroom cred and twice Maks's years of experience (probably more like three or four times his judging experience) was out of line, especially considering Len has overall been very kind to Hope. Tom (and Bruno, who pulled out his SCD-voice of reason hat) tried to defuse the situation but Maks just kept right on going...

[danceronice]

Agreed. There's no way Nancy deserved a 9 for that mediocre foxtrot.

They really COULDN'T diss her for it, considering that last season they praised the Yankee Doodle Stripper routine Louis and Hugh Hefner's castoff did. Nancy's had more foxtrot content in the first thirty seconds with the coconuts than the ex-bunny's did in the entire routine.

[fascination]

I thought Tristan handled that question thoughtfully though I do think it was nice of Nancy to hop in and buy him some time as well as be grateful to hime when she got her marks...I still think she needs to realize that she isn't the boss in the studio and have some respect that given her level of talent, she is very fortunate to still be on the show....but at least she cares more to do well more than Hope

[Griffico]

Pretty much agree with what's being said here, though I will say that I was happy to see Hope look like she finally had a sense of the direction she needs to go to get the 'look'... Granted it's about 3 or 4 weeks too late, but still.

I'm glad that Chaz got scored like he did... you could tell there was a lot of smoke and mirrors going on with his performance. I was worried that the crazy lighting, the mask, and the pre-dance theatrics would inflate his scores. I also think he--like Hope--needs to have somebody of his own gender come in and show him how to dance his part. He's kind of a one-trick pony so far.

Aside: Cher went NUTS on Twitter about the judges last night
http://twitter.com/#!/cher

[danceronice]

I thought Tristan handled that question thoughtfully though I do think it was nice of Nancy to hop in and buy him some time as well as be grateful to hime when she got her marks...I still think she needs to realize that she isn't the boss in the studio and have some respect that given her level of talent, she is very fortunate to still be on the show....but at least she cares more to do well more than Hope

She's REALLY not the only one who's done that, though. There have been many, many people in the past who backtalked, and far worse dancers who lasted longer than she has (like the bunny, Shannon, etc.) But she comes around in the end. I'll take that over Chaz, and I'll take Chaz over Hope and her borderline-crybaby inability to handle it. Nancy's just as out of her depth and just as frustrated but in the end she doesn't lash out or run off crying, just expresses frustration. And Chaz is COMPLETELY out of his league and now being scored like it, but he's taking it like an adult. Heck, Lacey's being a lot harder than Maks or Tristan (and I think she knows their time's running out) and he's still handling it.

And of course Maks needs a slapdown anyway after HIS tantrum. What got up his rear end, anyway? He's been gifted before, he knows how it works, and he ought to remember just how well it worked out for Derek when he threw a tantrum just on the confession cam about Shannon (was that her name? The one he was dating) and her scores--not well.

We get it. You're frustrated at not having won, Maks. Throwing a fit in front of the judges isn't going to help you there when you've got a student who clearly has quit trying.

[fascination]

DOI...I am only speaking to this season because I haven't had the opportunity to watch much of the previous seasons....

[Purr]

They really COULDN'T diss her for it, considering that last season they praised the Yankee Doodle Stripper routine Louis and Hugh Hefner's castoff did. Nancy's had more foxtrot content in the first thirty seconds with the coconuts than the ex-bunny's did in the entire routine.

I don't recall the ex-bunny's routine. And I'm not that interested to look for it on You Tube.

Nancy looked was just walking her way through the steps - it wasn't really dancing. Her desire for harder choreography wasn't very appropriate either. If she can't do something basic, what does she think she's going to do with harder? Hope that the flash and dazzle of whatever she's looking for makes up lacks of basic dancing. :rolleyes:

[Beto]

Reading the comments that you all have posted here has made me glad that I didn't TiVo last week's episodes and this week's. Looks like it might be worth watching next week after tonight's elimination.

[Griffico]

Reading the comments that you all have posted here has made me glad that I didn't TiVo last week's episodes and this week's. Looks like it might be worth watching next week after tonight's elimination.

I don't know if I'd say that... there were definitely a few encouraging moments worth watching. (You know you can watch all the episodes on abc's web site, right?)

[Phil Owl]

I actually liked JR's performance, and Ricki Lake in my eyes did very good. The others, OMG it was like a train wreck. ARRRRRRRGH! :doh::eek:

[duffypratt]

Maks was doing a few things at once with his outburst. He was trying to show Hope that he really did believe in her, and that he would defend her. He was making good television (and probably cleared the "outburst" with the producers beforehand). He was painting Len as the bad guy, in the hope that some would vote for Hope because Len had been harsh and nit-picky with her. And he was preserving his image as the bad boy on the show.

The question to Tristam was awkward. I'm pretty sure that he's never spent this many concentrated hours devoted to trying to make an untalented beginner watchable. That's got to be a new and difficult challenge for even the best of teachers. But how does he get that point across clearly without disparaging his student?

[danceronice]

I am not fond of something about Ricki's topline or SOMETHING about her upper body in hold, but she has very nice footwork in general. She and JR are pretty clearly final-two material. The third spot is anyone else's at this point.

JR FTW! For a true non-dancer who's even new to entertainment in general, he's been SPECTACULAR.

[danceronice]

Maks was doing a few things at once with his outburst. He was trying to show Hope that he really did believe in her, and that he would defend her. He was making good television (and probably cleared the "outburst" with the producers beforehand). He was painting Len as the bad guy, in the hope that some would vote for Hope because Len had been harsh and nit-picky with her. And he was preserving his image as the bad boy on the show.

The question to Tristam was awkward. I'm pretty sure that he's never spent this many concentrated hours devoted to trying to make an untalented beginner watchable. That's got to be a new and difficult challenge for even the best of teachers. But how does he get that point across clearly without disparaging his student?

Given how Tom and Bruno went into salvage mode, I really don't think Maks ran that by anyone. And if that's his idea of support...if I were Hope, I'd pass. That was embarrassing and unprofessional. (And if he believes in her as a contender at this point, he's not just disrespectful, he's delusional.)

And I really don't think think Tristan was trying to find some way not to trash Nancy. For starters, he is not that sort of person and I say that from personal experience. He's a sweet guy and a very good teacher. (And frankly, just about everyone except JR is more or less untalented, so he's not the lone ranger there.) I think the question came across as more baiting. They didn't get the drama from him, but they definitely got it from Maks.

[fascination]

I am not fond of something about Ricki's topline or SOMETHING about her upper body in hold, but she has very nice footwork in general. She and JR are pretty clearly final-two material. The third spot is anyone else's at this point.

JR FTW! For a true non-dancer who's even new to entertainment in general, he's been SPECTACULAR.
she has a tendency to stick her chin forward...particularly in promenade...

[danceronice]

she has a tendency to stick her chin forward...particularly in promenade...

Thank you. I am not good enough at Standard/Smooth in closed to put my finger on what was bugging me.

She and JR are still the clear class of the field, though.

[Beto]

I don't know if I'd say that... there were definitely a few encouraging moments worth watching. (You know you can watch all the episodes on abc's web site, right?)
Yes, I do know that but I'm very picky about which shows I watch online for those times when I forget to TiVo them. DwtS is not one of them. ;)

HOWEVER, I did record the results show tonight and watching JR's performance with Karina was really enjoyable! :D

Also, was anyone else digging the Macy's Stars of Dance performance? I was *really* happy to see "In the Heights" included in the montage/medley with "West Side Story" and "42nd Street" as it's a show I got to see 3 years ago in NYC and absolutely loved!

[danceronice]

Also, was anyone else digging the Macy's Stars of Dance performance? I was *really* happy to see "In the Heights" included in the montage/medley with "West Side Story" and "42nd Street" as it's a show I got to see 3 years ago in NYC and absolutely loved!

Normally I hate the Macy's Stars of Dance numbers (total fridge break time) but I LOVED this one!

[Phil Owl]

At last, Chaz got voted off the island as it were.

Definitely enjoyed seeing JR"s performance again though, so glad he's staying.

[Keithers]

also...that is why I have changed my mind about Carson, it is now clear to me that he has no intention of improving ONLY of having fun...

lastly, welcometo df keithers
Belated thanks for your welcome to df, fascination.

I want to say up front that I am not a dancer. I wish I were! I think it's a wonderful, beautiful art form and one of the most beautiful things a man and a woman can do together.

[Keithers]

Hope is disappointing, but, given her tough back ground, she should be far less likely to be poorly affected by a hard--- coach...I think you are being too kind...she's just not very good at all...and I wanted her to be because I am totally over the pretty girly girls winning or getting too far because of it...I really like her but she is epic fail...with no good excuse...Rob, otoh is improved....I don't see Hope improving and that is unfortunate
You are probably quite correct about Hope not being very good at dancing. Her performances have not improved much (if at all) since you wrote that a couple of weeks ago.

I do find myself wondering, though, whether she might not have done a little better with another teacher -- or at least enjoyed the experience more than she has.

The way I see it, Maks has not been up to the challenge -- which, admittedly, was a difficult one. He's been pretty inflexible and unimaginative in his approach to teaching Hope, save for bringing in 3 women from the DWTS troupe this week to coach Hope a little (which seemed to work quite well). If criticism and swearing and being a hard--- are not working, does he not have any other tools in his toolkit? I don't see that he has.

[rbazsz]

I am suspicious that DWTS rigs their phone voting. Last season and this week I called to register a vote. I did this for three different shows and have yet to get anything but busy signals. I called at various times of the day up to about 3 am PST. This week I tried voting for JR and Hope and the same thing. I was afraid to test it for Chaz because I would feel horrible if he got my vote.

Surely they have enough bandwidth to handle a large number of phone calls so I find it very improbable that people are tying up the lines 24/7.

Has anybody else had problems calling to vote?

[fascination]

You are probably quite correct about Hope not being very good at dancing. Her performances have not improved much (if at all) since you wrote that a couple of weeks ago.

I do find myself wondering, though, whether she might not have done a little better with another teacher -- or at least enjoyed the experience more than she has.

The way I see it, Maks has not been up to the challenge -- which, admittedly, was a difficult one. He's been pretty inflexible and unimaginative in his approach to teaching Hope, save for bringing in 3 women from the DWTS troupe this week to coach Hope a little (which seemed to work quite well). If criticism and swearing and being a hard--- are not working, does he not have any other tools in his toolkit? I don't see that he has.I do think that there are some folks who are not well suited for a hard--- instructor...and sometimes those of us who look like we are tough aren't always...but I would find that perplexing about Hope given her training...but I do think it likely that she thought it was going to be much easier than it is due to her physicality...and when folks are accustomed to being very competant with their bodies, it can be doubly frustrating when it suddenly own't obey....but yes, Maks certainly has some room for improvement in the people skills area and I rather doubt that he cares to explore that...

[salsera_alemana]

I am suspicious that DWTS rigs their phone voting. Last season and this week I called to register a vote. I did this for three different shows and have yet to get anything but busy signals. I called at various times of the day up to about 3 am PST. This week I tried voting for JR and Hope and the same thing. I was afraid to test it for Chaz because I would feel horrible if he got my vote.

Surely they have enough bandwidth to handle a large number of phone calls so I find it very improbable that people are tying up the lines 24/7.

Has anybody else had problems calling to vote?

I never call, I always vote online (if I vote). I hadn't voted for many seasons but this season I think JR should win and I "dug out" my credentials. Online voting is very easy and without hassles. You can vote more than once by deleting your cookies after you have used up all your votes the first time.

[TinyDancer109]

so glad Chaz finally went home. He has been out of his league for a while and now had a fit because of his sense of entitlement. Can't believe Cher offered to "cut a b*tch" for him on her twitter last night... totally borderline psycho.

JR was great. He and Karina also have a great chemistry. He is my pick to run away with the mirror ball trophy. Ricky was very good too, but i agree that her topline is a little bizarre at times... she tends to tilt her head to the right (although i dont think that hairdo helped to hide that - same reason i never liked it on JT Thomas - it makes your head look heavy).... but i like her attitude and the way she handles Derek when he is having a diva moment.

Although I dont necessarily agree with the way he said, i def agree with DOI that Maks did have a point buried deep down in that temper tantrum - and that is, that the judges play favorites and judge some on effort and others on technique. Does that excuse him? no... just sayin'. What bothered me more than his fiasco with the judges, personally, was when he told Hope that everyone lost hope in her and he was starting to lose confidence in her too... i have never experienced that, but i have to to imagine that has to be deflating to hear from your own coach.

PS - i thought the group dance was ok, but not my favorite group dance. altho i did enjoy watching karina help coach other girls on how to do lifts. :)

[Griffico]

I never call, I always vote online (if I vote). I hadn't voted for many seasons but this season I think JR should win and I "dug out" my credentials. Online voting is very easy and without hassles. You can vote more than once by deleting your cookies after you have used up all your votes the first time.

I've done the calling thing a few times, and I've noticed that if you can't get through after several attempts you shouldn't be too worried about the contestant that week. If you do get through, then there may be reason to keep calling... (ominous music)

[TinyDancer109]

oh, and as far as nancy, i really think she made an improvement this week performance-wise... but the rest of the dancers are still out of her and hope's league, so she needs to continue to improve to stay...

[danceronice]

I think Nancy and David have both improved more than Rob, who had one good dance (the foxtrot) and hasn't done well since, but it would take a miracle to get rid of a Kardashian from any reality show.

And I'm sure the voting is rigged (though I don't think you CAN phone vote at 3am--they cut the phones off fairly quickly) though not by keeping people from calling in. Since they never release the totals they can really eliminate whomever they want no matter how many votes they get.

[anp73ga31]

I didnt think so at first but now I am definitely thinking that Hope would have done better with another instructor. Its obvious that Maks' way of teaching does not work for her. Maybe Louis? Or someone who comes at his teaching from a different place? Not sure. But I really feel like the main problem is her feet, and I can't for the life of me figure out why Maks hasnt tried to work on that yet. She dances with such flat feet that it makes her look like she is clomping around the floor when doing a ballroom dance and walking around the floor when doing latin. I don't think her dancing would look so bad, if her feet were fixed. Not technical enough to know what needs to be done to fix them, only that they make her look horrible and honestly I cant bear to watch when she dances. That being said, the rumba was NOT her worst dance and I DO wish that Len and the other judges from the very beginning would have given her something more to go on than "practice more!" or "try to be sexy!". Well, what makes you look sexy is the way you move your legs and your feet and your torso, etc. So why couldnt they have mentioned her feet?! Or anything for that matter that would have helped her. I think it just turned out bad all around and I do feel bad for her.

[fascination]

Len specifically noted that heel leads in latin are a place to begin correction...how hard is it to point your freaking toe?...that Maks hasn't gone there or she can't manage that, makes me wonder about one or the other of them

[danceronice]

I wonder if it's a combination--Maks does not seem flexible in his teaching style, Hope may be the type to balk when told repeatedly to do something without the explanation being made more clear, winding up with a bad combination all round. From where he's sitting, she WON'T do it and won't try, from where she's sitting, he keeps telling her to do something but not how.

[Beto]

Maks defends his comments and there's a response from Len Goodman here as well.

http://www.realityblurred.com/realitytv/archives/dancing_with_the_stars_13/2011_Oct_25_maks-defense

[TinyDancer109]

the other point that i think Maks did have but was unable to articulate properly was that the judges dont always give constructive crticism but prefer to just rip contestants' egos apart with broad negative comments sometimes.

[fascination]

zomg....I find the opposite to be true...the crap they gush over and call awesome makes me ill...usually when they make a critique it is booed by the crowd and done so tinged with guilt and regret ...

[Beto]

zomg....I find the opposite to be true...the crap they gush over and call awesome makes me ill...usually when they make a critique it is booed by the crowd and done so tinged with guilt and regret ...
Ditto. Carrie Ann's especially guilty of this. Bruno I tolerate and Len I absolutely respect but the inconsistency of their judging just makes me ill at times.

[TinyDancer109]

but i think that was his point... they gush over some people for no reason and for other people they tell them, "you suck, you look like pinocchio chasing jimmeny cricket, it's time for you to go home" with no feedback.

[JudeMorrigan]

Honestly, both their positive and negative feedback is usually pretty worthless in my opinion. I imagine the blame in that regard rests a good bit on the show's producers. I have no trouble believing that they think that the empty gushing and the histrionic slagging is what the audience wants to hear.

And as for who gets which, I have no trouble believing it's often as much about trying to manipulate the voting audience as anything else. I actually don't think the voting is rigged per se (otherwise blatant manipulation like the winner-take-all dance last season to keep Chelsea from going home wouldn't be necessary).

[LatinDancer006]

zomg....I find the opposite to be true...the crap they gush over and call awesome makes me ill...usually when they make a critique it is booed by the crowd and done so tinged with guilt and regret ...

I agree. I think Bruno is the worst culprit, but for some reason he's been brutal with Chaz. I can see on the judges faces that they sometimes strugled to find something positive to say about some performances.

[danceronice]

I agree with fasc--usually, Len is the most useful, Bruno is 50-50 (note how when he jumped in to defuse the confrontation after Tom called time out, he gave Hope a quiet, reasoned critique) and Carrie Anne needs to adjust her meds or something as apparently everything makes her cry. And they are FAR more likely to gush over something that doesn't deserve it than really slam something for being bad (and fair enough, not only would that be cruel if they're TOO harsh they wind up with a combination of pity voters and vote-for-the-worsts.) For them to be brutally "You suck at this completely" the person usually has to be exceptionally bad, a la Michael Bolton or Master P (where they really must have HAD to lowball him.)

And it does reach a point where they have to tell someone "You *are* the worst of those remaining and it might be time for you to go." Not everyone gets to make the finals, and the last three are usually at least one really good dancer, one "most improved" and either another good dancer or a combination of the two.

It's funny Derek was quoted in the Maks-makes-excues article as one of the "hidden gems" from this week was the look on Derek's face in the background as he says it--not so much offended as "I can't believe he just said that." And while he's right, emotions are high, and while Maks may say he meant it was all the pros, that still came out sounding really like a slap to the other pros and the celebs.

[davedove]

It just seems to me that more and more the judges are fitting into three roles. In fact, it really seems like the producers are pushing them to these extremes:

Len is the grumpy old man who only likes things a certain way.
Bruno is the over the top wild man.
Carrie Ann is the over-emotional one.

[rbazsz]

What really irks me is the disparity between what the judges say and how they score. Even when all of them agree the dance had flaws they will score 7s, 8s, and 9s. Apparently later in the season they are instructed to give high scores no matter what they think of the dance.

[duffypratt]

Here's an illustration of Maks' point. Just the week before, Nancy and Tristan danced a rumba. She wore heels instead, but to my eye it was still just as loaded with heel leads as Hope's rumba. Len called the dance simple and effective. Bruno was glowing over it. And she got a 22, as compared with Hope's 20 in a later week. (Later weeks tend to score higher, but it was just the next week, so...) Nobody said boo about Nancy using toe leads or pointing her feet.