Any professional female leaders?

[PsychoSalsaGuy]

This Chaz Bono controversy has me wondering. How prevalent is it for a female to lead. (Let's keep the Chaz Bono controversy out of this discussion.)

I know some dance styles lend themselves better to female leads. Swing for example, and it happens in salsa too, although not as often from my understanding.

But what about professionally? It seems to me that if women only learn to follow because they are assigned that role, there would be at least one female professional dancer who almost exclusively leads. Do competition rules say a woman can only follow? If so, what about performing? Are there any professional female performers who almost exclusively lead?

If there are some female professional leaders, why aren't they more common? If there aren't any professional female leaders, then why do you think that is? Is the dance culture so biased? Or is there really something innately feminine about following?

Lay people (people who don't dance) would certainly attribute this to a(n) (perhaps?) almost misogynistic dance culture. Or women who would prefer to lead just aren't attracted to dance. Are they right? Is the dance culture changing? Seems the rest of the world has almost completely become unsexed. The dance world seems to be the last place to find traditional roles being exercised. Why do you you think that is?

Oh! And I suppose we shouldn't completely leave social dancing out if it. What about social dancing? I hear people say following gives them a chance to cast off the worries of the day. But I know personally, leading allows me to do that, not following. Is this attitude split down gender lines do you suppose or do you think it's more individual?

I'm very interested in hearing the perspective of actual dancers on all of this, especially from women who do lead.

[tanya_the_dancer]

Teachers usually know both parts, even if they're more accustomed to dancing their usual part - leading for men, following for women. However, I have seen a female teacher dancing a lead with her female students in a pro-am competition a few years back.

[PsychoSalsaGuy]

Oh shoot I forgot to ask something.

Maybe it's not fair to ask this question, but when women do compete or perform as leaders, how are they compared to the men? This is a touchy question I know but I'd appreciate real honesty here. If your congress for example included a showcase whereby a woman led, was her performance the performance of the night? I've been to plenty of congresses that featured student teams and the audience would EXPLODE after the performance. But it was understood that this excitement was expressed in the context that the students had only been dancing for 6 months. They might have got the most applause, but we all knew that the professionals who have been dancing for 20 years were better. So I'd like complete honesty here.

And please understand, I'm not trying to propose a mysoginistic view. I don't mean to imply that women are incapable of leading as well as men. I'm genuinely curious as to whether or not any take up the challenge. And if none do, why not?

[danceronice]

If it's REALLY necessary, I'll switch sides (I can fake my way through bronze foxtrot) for mixers as we're always short on guys. Or in a beginner class if there aren't enough men. As long as the followers are more inept at the dance than I am, it works out. I wouldn't want to social dance with a woman leading me, though, and I certainly wouldn't compete it. Male roles were meant for male bodies, regardless of what you do off the floor.

[Sagitta]

When something is common those who do the uncommon have to encounter societal attitude as well as overcome their own unconscious attitudes/beliefs. I have seen female leaders who easily misunderstand comparisons by feeling males vs females are being compared. Similarly there are many who use that sort of comparison because they lack dancing knowledge. Here I am talking not only about how good one is technically, but also stylistic differences, the feeling one gets when one dances with a person, move choice, musicality. It is not necessarily easy for the average Joe to tease out the differences due to gender and those that aren't.

[Zhena]

Do competition rules say a woman can only follow?


Most competition rules that I am aware of say a couple consists of a male leader and a female follower. I believe the college circuit is less strict ... which is a good thing given the usual gender ratio of the participants. There are also some same-sex competitions.

[Zhena]

Thoughts in random order:

Leading requires different skills than following. I have to admit I'm not a very good leader (though I have had some very positive comments on my backleading in class ... "thanks so much; now I understand what I'm supposed to do" :uplaugh:). A few years ago when I was regularly attending beginner-level classes before socials, I would lead if the gender balance was off. When I stopped going to those classes, I essentially stopped leading ... but I may start up again. I don't doubt that I could become a good leader if I put enough effort into it. Then again, I don't have enough time to learn everything I need to know about being a good follower, so it's probably not going to happen soon!


I will dance with anyone who asks me without regard to gender. And I have asked other women (including those who are not teachers) to lead me.


My West Coast Swing teacher is a woman. The classes are set up so that she teaches an intermediate class while a less-experienced man teaches the beginners, then she teaches the advanced class using the man as a partner. Unless she is making a particular point that requires her to demonstrate as the follower, she leads and he follows. It is common for the classes to have more men than women, so at least one other man (in addition to the co-teacher) often dances as a follower. Students manage to learn the difference between gender roles and dance roles.

[Zhena]

Male roles were meant for male bodies, regardless of what you do off the floor.

I'm not sure that I agree with this. I admit that the closed-hold dances (Standard and Smooth) tend to work better when the leader is larger and stronger than the follower, but I dance in an area with a large population of small men. I'm 5'7" and average build, and I tower over some of my partners. I've been able to see over the top of the heads of certain leaders (both male and female). Some smaller people try to make up for size by being incredibly strong, but others just go with what they have.

Yes, if other things are equal I prefer a larger man (DH is 6'3" for example). But often other things are NOT equal, and there are enough good dancers who happen to be short that I would be depriving myself if I refused to dance with anyone under a certain height limit. And there are some women who match my size better than some men ...

[danceronice]

I'd rather deprive myself than dance with someone too short or too lightweight. Just dancing is not good enough to overcome physical discomfort.

[Zhena]

I'd rather deprive myself than dance with someone too short or too lightweight. Just dancing is not good enough to overcome physical discomfort.

IIRC, you don't do a lot of social dancing, and you DO compete. In other words, you probably try to maintain a proper frame ("keep left ... more ... more ... keep you hips to me ... but keep left ..." ARRGHH). Even when I'm doing it as well as I can, this frame is not comfortable for me. Therefore I don't even begin to attempt it with anyone but a few select individuals, and I usually slack off more than I should about 3 seconds into the dance. I do a fair amount of my dancing in a more "social" type of frame, with a lot of space between me and my partner, which minimizes the discomfort of a height discrepancy.

Full-on dancing in proper frame is great, but exhausting. Relaxed dancing in social frame can also be pretty nice, and is much more accessible to most people. I find the relaxed variety worth my time and effort, so the size (or gender) of my partner is not a major concern.

YMMV ... It's all good.

[rbazsz]

Later this week I'm competing in a pro/am West Coast Swing competition. My teacher (a lady) has offered to dance as a lead for women who want to dance pro/am with her.

She is small in stature but local dancers all recognize her as a very capable lead. She could probably lead at least up to intermediate level and then I think her petite body would put her at a disadvantage to stronger and bigger male leads.

It will be interesting to see if any women ask my teacher to dance with them as a lead. My guess is that women prefer male leads so she is unlikely to find females that do pro/am with her. Perhaps I will be proven wrong?!?