My first AT lesson!!!

[squirrel]

It'll be this Sunday! I'm happy! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Were you guys happy when you started taking AT lessons?

[MacMoto]

I was in pain... :lol:
It's that rigid, fixed hold of tango, which is very different from salsa, where the position and tension of arms change constantly (I have arm/neck/shoulder problems :(). Being a beginner makes you tense up as well, which made things worse.

It's a fascnating dance though. I hope you'll like it. I see quite a few salsa people at milongas, and my AT teacher also dances salsa.

[Sagitta]

I was very happy from my first AT lesson. Are you leraning the follow or leader role? As a follower you can easily make a lot of progress. As a leader it is a lot slower, a lot slower. The followers in my beginner class, who attended the weekly practices, are way ahead of me.

[Sagitta]

I was in pain... :lol:
It's that rigid, fixed hold of tango, which is very different from salsa, where the position and tension of arms change constantly (I have arm/neck/shoulder problems :(). Being a beginner makes you tense up as well, which made things worse.

That was my problem at first. The hold is not rigid and not fixed. Thinking of it as such only makes the problem worse. Right at the start I was beginning to get neck pains from the tension, but relaxing into the hold/frame takes care of that. :)

[squirrel]

I am going to learn as a follower... :) but eventually as a leader as well!

[Cats]

A little confused. My first dance is Salsa also. I had to take the Tango beginners series twice. Tango breaks most of the rules. There is not a lot in common with any of the other dances. When it all clicks you feel like you are right on top of the world though because you've mastered the worlds most beautiful dance.


>^..^<

[MadamSamba]

Oh, Squirrel, did you enjoy your first lesson? I was thinking about you on Sunday (well, Monday morning our time).

How did you find it? I remember my first lesson. I went home confused and perplexed, but also excited.

As Cat says, tango does break many of the rules learned in other forms of dance and it certainly calls upon principles not found in other dance forms too, but, as with any new form, stick with it and one day it will just happen and, my goodness, you'll love it!!! There's something about tango that just gets into a place no other dance can. I'm a mad ballroom dancer and can't live without salsa, but there's something so special about AT that words barely suffice.

[squirrel]

hmmm... it wasn't what I expected!
It was all right... I guess! But something just wasn't right! Maybe I jsut didn't like the instructor! He is soooo arrogant! He just taught us some steps... first la salida... But he just said: "the step goes like SSSQQS..." showed us with his partner a few times (didn't break down the step) and then we did it with him and then we just paired up and tried the step and then the guy put music! But I had no idea about the Tango beat! So...
This is actually the first time I am happy about my Salsa training! God it helped!
Then we did ocho adelante and ocho arriba... and then the sandwich and then la sentada... :( he said nothing about how to lead a woman! I am going again next week and start asking questions!

[bordertangoman]

hmmm... it wasn't what I expected!
It was all right... I guess! But something just wasn't right! Maybe I jsut didn't like the instructor! He is soooo arrogant! He just taught us some steps... first la salida... But he just said: "the step goes like SSSQQS..." showed us with his partner a few times (didn't break down the step) and then we did it with him and then we just paired up and tried the step and then the guy put music! But I had no idea about the Tango beat! So...
This is actually the first time I am happy about my Salsa training! God it helped!
Then we did ocho adelante and ocho arriba... and then the sandwich and then la sentada... :( he said nothing about how to lead a woman! I am going again next week and start asking questions!

This is what IMO is wrong with tango teaching: it should be focussing on how to walk, how to lead, how to follow, how to listen and move to the beat not the D8CB! Learn basic skills then build up the movements. :evil:

[squirrel]

and what can I do? he is a very well known Ballroom instructor!

[squirrel]

I shall give him another try... and start asking questions!
What should I ask about? (I have no idea...). I want to ask about how to lead, and how to listen to the music... and the like... any other ideas?

[MacMoto]

it should be focussing on how to walk, how to lead, how to follow, how to listen and move to the beat not the D8CB! Learn basic skills then build up the movements. :evil:
That was my first, absolute beginners' AT class -- how to walk & move to the beat, then how to lead/follow. The lead/follow in AT works in such a different way from other dances (the ones I know anyway), you really need to work on it before you can move on to more complicated moves... The sandwich in the first class? That doesn't sound right.

Squirrel, I'm sorry to hear your first tango experience wasn't so good...
I wonder how well your well known ballroom instructor" knows AT, which I've been told is very different from the ballroom tango.

[MacMoto]

What should I ask about? (I have no idea...).

Exactly as BTM says:
how to walk, how to lead, how to follow, how to listen and move to the beat
I'd say these are an AT equivalent of "how to do the basic step" in salsa. There's no point in moving on to complicated stuff until you've got that.

[Sagitta]

Ask to spend 5 minutes just walking to the music, with him clapping the basic beat out in a fairly open two handed position. Next ask instructor to show the closed position, explaining both leader and follower on balls of feet, placement of upper bodies and hands. Then 5 minutes of walking in closed.

[bordertangoman]

I was in pain... :lol:
It's that rigid, fixed hold of tango, which is very different from salsa, where the position and tension of arms change constantly (I have arm/neck/shoulder problems :(). Being a beginner makes you tense up as well, which made things worse.

The arms don't need to be fixed - especially for the leader as he should be leading with his chest and the follower needs her hands on his shoulders to feel this movement, so its almost better if the leaders arms are not involved at all. Eventually the left arm becomes an extension of the shoulder and the right provides a sense of security for the follower.
If you have shoulder or arm problems there are alternative positions for the left hand; eg close to your own shoulder with your palm facing toward you; or dropped alongside your thigh -but I only use this last one temporarily for squeezing by on a busy dance floor.
Another beginners embrace is follower drapes both her arms loosely around his neck and both his arms around her back. Needs to be a loose embrace to allow for upper torso disassocciation.

[newbie]

It was not so long ago, so it's still in my memory. :wink:

A group of friends invited a couple of teachers in their vast farm in the country, for a week-end. Four couples-in-life students, plus one girl, plus the two teachers. I got invited at the last moment, when they realized they had a shortage of leaders.

On saturday, for five hours, they explained posture, walk, lead-follow stuff. On the evening they arranged a milonga in a small, wooden warehouse. On sunday they demonstrated the salida step.

I liked this week-end very much because the atmosphere was always very friendly, mainly the meals near the fireplace, when the teachers spoke for hours about their trips in buenos-Aires, about all the misterious codes of milongas, and so on. :shock:

[squirrel]

I think I owe you guys a comeback on my second AT lesson....
It went much better... first 'cause I started asking questions... which made the instructor realise we are no fools and he slowed down and started to explain leading... :) I took it as a personal victory! I asked many questions and got answers!

A question for you guys... I think you probably have covered this already so please direct me to the right topic...

What is the beat of the AT music? Am I supposed to dance to the beat?

I am asking this 'cuase the instructor said the beat don't matter... you can go Slow or Quick as suits your fancy!

[newbie]

Squirrel-Raluca,
Existà oare o communitate a tango-ului la Bucuresti? Sau chiar undeva in Romania? Deocamdatà mi s-a parut ultima tara in lume unde tango-ul nu ajunsese...

(Is there any AT tango community in Bucharest, or even somewhere in Rumania? Up to now, I thought it was the last country in the world not yet reached by tango)

[squirrel]

Wow a fellow Romanian... where are you from?

[squirrel]

Well, newbie, it seems that the Tango Argentino finally reached Romania!
Yes, it is true... but it is not a community yet... the instructors are ballroom dancers (I don't know of any others...) and no parties or socials are organised... of course, no AT played in clubs either... :(
Hope to change this one day!

[newbie]

I'm not sure about learning AT from ballroom instructors.

In my school, the regular AT teacher (a social dancer, who goes to milongas, makes trips to Bs-As,etc) is sometimes replaced for the AT class by a ballroom teacher, himself a much better dancer overall (I mean if the two of them made a 12-dance contest, he would win easily). But I don't like his classes. What he does is not AT, it's international/stage tango with some AT sequences. It goes like "on beat 14 the man steps twice backwards, dragging the lady, while she looks at him with a passionate expression until beat 19".

In my town (western Europe) we have many AT schools. When I know beforehand that our regular teacher will be replaced, I can go somewhere else.

But even if in your town the alternative is either taking AT classes with ballroom teachers or not taking AT classes at all, I tend to think that by learning this way you'll just get bad habits.

Bs-As teachers travel a lot (Julio & Corina will be in Moscow soon, Fabian & Carolina are in Greece by now), maybe one day one of them will stop in Bucharest for a few workshops...

[squirrel]

maybe... I certainly hope so... I shall take another lesson with the ballroom teacher... it's an obligation...

[Sagitta]

A question for you guys... I think you probably have covered this already so please direct me to the right topic...

What is the beat of the AT music? Am I supposed to dance to the beat?

I am asking this 'cuase the instructor said the beat don't matter... you can go Slow or Quick as suits your fancy!

Okay. There is a beat. This beat varies dependon on whether it is a tango, milonga or vals song. You don't have to step on every beat, but it is important that when you step that you step on the beat. Does this make sense?

[Cats]

Shades of the old Addam's family, tango dancing in Dracula's castle!

The 3 dances, Tango, Waltz and Milonga are somewhat different. I believe the slow Tango is mostly is on the major beats 1 and 3. The Waltz is Viennese tempo so you step on the 1 although there are some syncopations in which you may step on alternate beats. Milonga is the fastest dance, and the step is on at least every beat. Again there are various syncopations. In this case you step on and between the beat. In case you haven't tried Milonga yet, it varies in speed, the fastest is a little slower then a moderate salsa beat.

>^..^<

I think I owe you guys a comeback on my second AT lesson....
It went much better... first 'cause I started asking questions... which made the instructor realise we are no fools and he slowed down and started to explain leading... :) I took it as a personal victory! I asked many questions and got answers!

A question for you guys... I think you probably have covered this already so please direct me to the right topic...

What is the beat of the AT music? Am I supposed to dance to the beat?

I am asking this 'cuase the instructor said the beat don't matter... you can go Slow or Quick as suits your fancy!

[Sagitta]

That's true Cats! Now that I think of it I do syncopations, even with tango. For instance, 1 a 2 to switch feet and lead ochos. :oops: Just kind of stuck in my mind what I said previously as that was what I was told my first AT lesson, when just learning to identify the beat and focusing on being able to step on the beat.

[bordertangoman]

It goes like "on beat 14 the man steps twice backwards, dragging the lady, while she looks at him with a passionate expression until beat 19".

...

funniest thing i've read for ages lol :lol: :lol: :lol:

[bordertangoman]

Okay. There is a beat. This beat varies dependon on whether it is a tango, milonga or vals song. You don't have to step on every beat, but it is important that when you step that you step on the beat. Does this make sense?

Sagitta's is a good description; the music also changes a couple of times so you get melodic sections where ochos are more appropriate as they are more flowing movements. You are also allowed to pause

[squirrel]

Sorry, guys... I haven't listened to enough AT music to understand what it is that you say...
To me, it is still SSSQQS... :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

[newbie]

apart from AT, I'm taking ballroom tango classes too, and we have a fixed rythmic pattern, which goes SSQQSQQS SSQQSQQS and so on.

But for AT, as far as I know you can do what you want. SSSSSSSS...is ok, as well as S[nothing][nothing]SS is ok.
I've even seen more advanced guys move SSSS while the lady moved SSQQS, or, in the opposite way, guys moving QQQQQQ while in the same time they led the lady into doing a SSS sequence.

Who on earth are your teachers?

[Sagitta]

Okay squirrel. I feel that I owe you another explanation of your dancing as a follower! You move where your leader places you. There is no pattern at all. You know where to move by following the lead from your leader's upper body, keeping your legs loose and naturally letting them follow along. While doing this you work on keeping your upper body facing the leader's upper body. For instance, the cross is achieved because the follower aligns herself with the leader.

[squirrel]

:) I have to at least know some basics before I can follow! Don't you think so, Sagitta? I mean, I am hard to lead unless I know what it is I am doing!

[Sagitta]

I really don't think so. You just need to know to walk, posture of being on balls of feet and connected to leader, idea of having aligned upper bodies, loose legs... I've had leaders lead me into quite complicated stuff whenever I just let go and went with the flow.

One common beginner follower problem is following using the knees of the legs rather then letting them be loose. By this I mean if I feel your knees as I move forward there is a problem in our frame, or in your legs not being loose. Since we both lean slightly forward we should have enough space so that this doe snot happen.

Now that I'm learning to follow dancing is sort of beginning to make sense to me. Dancing concepts are similar for salsa and AT in some respects. In both dances the leader's center is a guide, or it should be. However, how this is communicated is slightly different.

When dancing salsa as a follow I let the leader's suggestions made with his/ her hands guide where my feet move. I cannot listen to his/her upper body motion, as often the feet can follow the beat, the body the clave and other instruments, while hands are doing their thing. In AT we are much closer, and the upper body is quiet, so I listen to the upper body rather then the hands. Here the leader's feet often can be doing tap dancing and it shouldn't matter to me as a follower.

[Sagitta]

Note I'm a beginner, but I spend quite a bit of time thinking about what is taught, what I do etc.

When I talk of follower basics this is what I think of for AT.

Frame: posture of being on balls of feet and connected to leader, idea of having aligned upper bodies, loose legs...

I've had leaders lead me into quite complicated stuff whenever I just let go and went with the flow.

One common beginner follower problem is following using the knees of the legs rather then letting them be loose. By this I mean if I feel your knees as I move forward there is a problem in our frame, or in your legs not being loose. Since we both lean slightly forward we should have enough space so that this doe snot happen.

Now that I'm learning to follow dancing is sort of beginning to make sense to me. Dancing concepts are similar for salsa and AT in some respects. In both dances the leader's center is a guide, or it should be. However, how this is communicated is slightly different.

When dancing salsa as a follow I let the leader's suggestions made with his/ her hands guide where my feet move. I cannot listen to his/her upper body motion, as often the feet can follow the beat, the body the clave and other instruments, while hands are doing their thing. In AT we are much closer, and the upper body is quiet, so I listen to the upper body rather than the hands. (It should not make a difference as the arms are connected to the upper body as one unit and upper body guidance is translated into the arms as well, but I find the distinction an important one that makes my AT dancing better.) Here the leader's feet often can be doing tap dancing and it shouldn't matter to me as a follower.

[squirrel]

Well... my instructor taught us to follow the lead, but he is not staying close enough for us to feel his upper body! and anyway I do not feel comfortable with being too close!!!
I think I'm gonna drop AT... I don't have either good instruction or a place to rehearse...

[Sagitta]

Well... my instructor taught us to follow the lead, but he is not staying close enough for us to feel his upper body! and anyway I do not feel comfortable with being too close!!!
I think I'm gonna drop AT... I don't have either good instruction or a place to rehearse...

I'm sorry to hear that Raluca. While I prefer upper body contact there are others who prefer a more open frame, so the leaders lead through the upper body, but the upper body isn't touching. Remember the idea of arms being connected to body and just moving along with it as one unit? It is tough to learn AT without practice, so I can understand the frustration of not being able to do that.

[MacMoto]

:) I have to at least know some basics before I can follow! Don't you think so, Sagitta? I mean, I am hard to lead unless I know what it is I am doing!
As I understand it (not that I know much :oops:), the basics of AT is basically, follow the lead. Your salsa experience should help in this respect. One difference is that salsa has the basic step, whereas AT doesn't. In salsa, when the leader does not offer any lead you do your basic to the beat. In AT, you don't do anything. You just stand ready and wait for the lead to move you.

Well... my instructor taught us to follow the lead, but he is not staying close enough for us to feel his upper body! and anyway I do not feel comfortable with being too close!!!
I think I'm gonna drop AT... I don't have either good instruction or a place to rehearse...
According to my teacher, the lead (torso pressure from the leader) is transmitted through the contact between the leader's right shoulder and the follower's left upper arm. You don't need a direct torso contact. My teacher's lead/follow exercise starts with the follower putting hands on the leaders shoulders with arms fairly straight... He should be slightly leaning forward towards you and you towards him, and as long as there is a contact, you should be able to feel the pressure from the leader's upper body that makes you walk back.

I really hope you don't have to drop AT as it's such an amazing dance, but I must say your instructor's methods sound rather dubious.

[etchuck]

Okay... so I took a three-hour-long "foundations" class in Argentine tango. I have a better understanding now than the 40-minute beginner blitz lesson from a few months ago.

As a ballroomer and salsa-nut, I can pretty much agree with squirrel... this is really tough.

The essential elements of this class was to not think about dancing ArT in terms of patterns. So we spent a few minutes (we = me as only guy, two novice followers) relying on VISUAL cues to lead the follower. I have spent a lot of time in ballroom and swing and salsa relying so much on the physical connections that a purely visual lead is now very hard to focus on. I can get used to it, but it takes for me an added level of discipline.

Then deal with arm connections... ballroom frame sneaks back in with the expectation of the right type of "tension" and communication. But I really have to let it loose a bit more. But while I know I can lead a follower with my center/core from WCS, it is really tough to do that with mostly visual cues rather than with leverage/compression as you expect with WCS. Man: it is so hard not to "invite" the woman to do ochos/swivels after being trained to do puertas in ballroom tango.

I'll pretty much admit... it's very hard to actually practice ArT by oneself, at least if you want to free yourself from learning it as a "patterned" dance. If the major characteristic of the dance is the purely improvisational aspect, then patterned combinations have to be thrown out of the window, and the lead-follow technique must be mastered... and it's SO DIFFERENT from ballroom or swing...

So I guess I want to say as a newbie who has had dance training before, this is not easy to retrain your mind...

[DancePoet]

Wow!

I knew I would like it ... but I'm already hooked!

Had a friend of mine, who knew I was looking to learn, point out a class had been restarted up in my local area. I couldn't start attending immediately, but went this past Sunday. I was under the impression that the first hour would be a beginner's class followed by an intermediate class, but this was exactly the opposite. My friend showed me some basics of walking before the intermediate started, but boom right into the intermediate I went. It wasn't too difficult. The instructor showed some basic dance techniques with emphasis on lead and follow along with balance and weight shifting. Then the beginner course focused on the various walking aspects, posture, and a basic "pattern" if it can be considered such since he explained there were different ways to dance it depending on how the feet was placed, body twisted, and weight shifted.

I asked questions throughout, which slowed the teaching process down, but allowed me to better understand the principles he was talking about.

During the practice time at the back end of the lessons I got to work with the instructor on fine tuning what was learned. He corrected several things that I recognized as me having the ballroom stuff creep into my efforts, and it was very helpful to get this persoanlized attention. Interestingly the first lesson was for free, and it's only $7 per lesson in the future.

P.S. Atmosphere was wonderful ... we worked in an old hallway of an old mill building which was built back before the American Civil War. The floors were all wood, the ceilings were high, the temperture was higher then outside, but cool and crisp, the lighting was almost all natural, and the music really seemed to float! An all around cool first lesson!

[Sagitta]

Wow!! Good to hear such good news DP!! :)

[bordertangoman]

velcom to Argentine tangoholics Anonymous...

(sound of mad cackling laughter) :twisted: :twisted:

[MadamSamba]

Yeah, welcome to the addictive world of tango, DP! :) How are your lessons going and what are you learing? Also, what is it that you like about tango?

[DancePoet]

I have only had the lessons written about above, so far.

I like tango because it appeals to my feelings. The combination of the music and the style of dance seems to emerse one's self into the emotions of the human spirit. There is an acceptance of one's feelings whether they be happy or sad, angry or fearful. It is sexual and sensual with out being overly so. There is a natural flowing beauty that spans the spectrum of human emotion, rather then focusing only one.

[DancePoet]

MacMoto wrote: "I was in pain... :lol: It's that rigid, fixed hold of tango, which is very different from salsa, where the position and tension of arms change constantly (I have arm/neck/shoulder problems :(). Being a beginner makes you tense up as well, which made things worse.

It's a fascinating dance though. I hope you'll like it. I see quite a few salsa people at milongas, and my AT teacher also dances salsa."

I actually was told recently not to use a "rigid, fixed tango hold", to be more flexible and relaxed with less tension then ballroom, and more like salsa. 8)

[DancePoet]

Sagitta wrote: "I was very happy from my first AT lesson. Are you leraning the follow or leader role? As a follower you can easily make a lot of progress. As a leader it is a lot slower, a lot slower. The followers in my beginner class, who attended the weekly practices, are way ahead of me."

I've been focusing on the lead, but there seems to be some focus placed on the follow as a way of teaching the lead. This has been very helpful! :)

[DancePoet]

BTM wrote: " ... it should be focussing on how to walk, how to lead, how to follow, how to listen and move to the beat ... "

This was definitely included in my first beginner lesson! :D

[DancePoet]

squirrel wrote: "and what can I do? he is a very well known Ballroom instructor!"

He might, and I say might, be a good ballroom instructor. Yet this does not mean he would immediately make a good Argentine Tango instructor. I am beginning to see after four lessons, two practice sessions, and three workshops, that although we ballroomers have lots to bring to AT, we carry baggage with us, too. ;) :)

[DancePoet]

squirrel: "I shall give him another try... and start asking questions!
What should I ask about? (I have no idea...). I want to ask about how to lead, and how to listen to the music... and the like... any other ideas?"

Ask questions throughout the lessons! When ever something is unclear ask, ask, ask! And if it is still not clear, find a new way to ask!

My new moto for learning ... questions are cool. 8)

[DancePoet]

squirrel wrote: "I think I owe you guys a comeback on my second AT lesson....
It went much better... first 'cause I started asking questions... which made the instructor realise we are no fools and he slowed down and started to explain leading... :) I took it as a personal victory! I asked many questions and got answers!"

Yeehah! :D

(Guess I should have read further as I was revisiting this thread. :roll: )

And also wrote: " ... the instructor said the beat don't matter... you can go Slow or Quick as suits your fancy!"

The beat doesn't matter??? :shock: One can certainly go slow, regular or quick, but it certainly matters like any other music.

[DancePoet]

bordertangoman quoted newbie: "It goes like "on beat 14 the man steps twice backwards, dragging the lady, while she looks at him with a passionate expression until beat 19".

And then wrote: "funniest thing i've read for ages lol :lol: :lol: :lol:"

Ah ... after several lessons, this has become very funny! Reasons why taking AT lessons might not work from a ballroom teacher. :lol:

[DancePoet]

Sagitta wrote: " ... Now that I'm learning to follow dancing is sort of beginning to make sense to me. Dancing concepts are similar for salsa and AT in some respects. In both dances the leader's center is a guide, or it should be. However, how this is communicated is slightly different."

Leading from the center seems to be important in ballroom as well.

[DancePoet]

squirrel wrote: "Well... my instructor taught us to follow the lead, but he is not staying close enough for us to feel his upper body! and anyway I do not feel comfortable with being too close!!!
I think I'm gonna drop AT... I don't have either good instruction or a place to rehearse..."

How's this going for you now? Are you still doing AT? Have you found a better instructor?

[DancePoet]

Well, I finally had my third and fourth AT lessons a week ago. And I had three lessons during a AT workshop yesterday! But I thing I'll start a new thread and leave this one for the 1st AT lessons instead. :)

[rails]

Interesting. I've had 8 or 9 AT lessons from a few different instructors and they've all made a point of telling us to relax our hold - often several times during the same lesson. "Rigid, fixed" was bad.

Instructors can make such a big difference. Back in 1996 I signed up for a swing series with my then-girlfriend. This was two years before the Gap commercial. The teacher was so bad that I stopped going after the 2nd class. The experience put me off the idea of any partner dancing for years. It's too bad because I basically missed the whole swing boom of the late '90's. Of course, nowadays, teachers I don't connect with don't put me off so much since my desire to dance is a heck of a lot greater. I just go looking for ones that work for me. I've already found some of those for tango.

I'm looking forward to learning more as soon as they put more nights in a week so I can find the time.

[MacMoto]

MacMoto wrote: "I was in pain... :lol: It's that rigid, fixed hold of tango, which is very different from salsa, where the position and tension of arms change constantly (I have arm/neck/shoulder problems :(). Being a beginner makes you tense up as well, which made things worse.

It's a fascinating dance though. I hope you'll like it. I see quite a few salsa people at milongas, and my AT teacher also dances salsa."

I actually was told recently not to use a "rigid, fixed tango hold", to be more flexible and relaxed with less tension then ballroom, and more like salsa. 8)
Interesting. I've had 8 or 9 AT lessons from a few different instructors and they've all made a point of telling us to relax our hold - often several times during the same lesson. "Rigid, fixed" was bad.
I should have explained better. My teacher also says the hold must be relaxed, with no tensing of arms. You are not supposed to move your arms about (unlike in salsa, where the hold changes constantly-- closed, two-hand open, one-hand open, cross-hand, arms down, arms up, one arm up and the other down, separating for shines, etc...), but you should keep your arms relaxed while keeping them in the (more or less) same position. I do understand this is achievable for most people through training; it's my arm/neck/shoulder problems (mild disability) I mentioned that makes it a problem for me.

And now that I can salsa every Sunday, it's simply impossible to find the time to do AT...

[bordertangoman]

ok here's a following exercise derived from 'sticking hands' in tai Chi.

With a partner: put your left hand on top of their right with light contact and let them move the arm while retaining contact; try it with your eyes closed, then try it again with the leader walking around the room (with their eyes open!)

If you don't have a partner then a small active child or pet would do equally well; just 'glue' yourself to them while they roam around. :)

this exercise should be done relaxed. You can extend it with more people so you lead with left hand and floow with right. This unfixes the mind since you have to allow focus to both hands at once and relaxing - mental and physical is essential!!

[newbie]

To come back to Squirrel, who initiated this thread, it seems that A.T finally found its way in Romania: a new site appeared (http://www.eltango.ro) with teachers with not that much experience, but
who seem to be specialized in A.T, and not ballroom teachers adding some A.T hours in their school's schedule.

Sà revenim la Veverità, c-a inceput chestia, se pare cà in cele din urmà T.A a aparut si la Bucuresti, si cu un site nou. Profesorii n-au experientà mare, dar màcar sunt interesati in T.A si nimic altceva, nu sunt invatatori de ballroom care ar fi adaugat un pic de T.A.

[mambo_munkey]

If only I could find me a partner! :roll:

[Sagitta]

If only I could find me a partner! :roll:

There are some places where one cannot learn without a partner. Classes are only offered to couples. 'Tis very sad! :(

[ReneeJoan]

My first experience with AT was August 27, 2002, the day that changed my life.

I had no previous dance training or experience in dance whatsover. And when the teacher (70 years old and handsome enough to make my heart do flip-flops) called the class to order, I was transported to another world. He was almost like a zen master, talking about the spritual aspects of dancing before addressing the technical aspects of the body. He spent about half an hour discussing proper body alignment, carriage, and balance, and how to walk, how to embrace your partner. He taught us a simple pattern (little was I to know that I would spend the next two years working on that "simple" eight step pattern), and within an hour we had enough tools and elements to be able to dance a number with each other. A couple men were kind enough to dance with me, and encouragingly told me I was "very light" and easy to lead.

At the milonga afterwords, a young couple (to this day I do not know who they were) did an exhibition. I was enchanted, mesmerized, converted. I had never in my life seen anything so hot, so exciting, so erotic, so sensual, so beautiful. I thought, "Paul Verhoven should take lessons from these people."

I immediately dived in, signing up for classes, lessons, and going to milongas. I was extremely blessed to have an extraordinarily PATIENT teacher, as I brought him absolutely nothing to work with except a willingness to work very hard and to listen without question or argument to everything he said.

I celebrate August 27 every year now, as both my "anniversary" with the tango, and the birthday of my soul as a dancer.

Renee

[SDsalsaguy]

Welcome to the Dance Forums ReneeJoan! :D

[Patapouf]

Renee Joan, welcome to the club (Err... the tango fanatic club!) and the DF too :D

I totally know what you're saying! When I first started doing AT, I had no clue what it was. Ballroom tango was my favorite at the time, and I was very much into dancing, so when I met my AT instructor through my ballroom instructor, I thought, why not? So I went to my first AT class that afternoon, and that's it. I've been forever converted to a AT person! And no offense to the ballroom fanatics here, ballroom tango doesn't sound and look that intriguing to me anymore. :D But I do not know my tango anniversary!! :? (need to find that out) :lol:

[pygmalion]

Welcome ReneeJoan. :D

[DancePoet]

My first experience with AT was August 27, 2002, the day that changed my life.

I had no previous dance training or experience in dance whatsover. And when the teacher (70 years old and handsome enough to make my heart do flip-flops) called the class to order, I was transported to another world. He was almost like a zen master, talking about the spritual aspects of dancing before addressing the technical aspects of the body. He spent about half an hour discussing proper body alignment, carriage, and balance, and how to walk, how to embrace your partner. He taught us a simple pattern (little was I to know that I would spend the next two years working on that "simple" eight step pattern), and within an hour we had enough tools and elements to be able to dance a number with each other. A couple men were kind enough to dance with me, and encouragingly told me I was "very light" and easy to lead.

At the milonga afterwords, a young couple (to this day I do not know who they were) did an exhibition. I was enchanted, mesmerized, converted. I had never in my life seen anything so hot, so exciting, so erotic, so sensual, so beautiful. I thought, "Paul Verhoven should take lessons from these people."

I immediately dived in, signing up for classes, lessons, and going to milongas. I was extremely blessed to have an extraordinarily PATIENT teacher, as I brought him absolutely nothing to work with except a willingness to work very hard and to listen without question or argument to everything he said.

I celebrate August 27 every year now, as both my "anniversary" with the tango, and the birthday of my soul as a dancer.

Renee

Glad you shared this story! :)

[pygmalion]

Wow. That is a beautiful testament to the power of AT in your life. 8)

[DancePoet]

Renee Joan, welcome to the club (Err... the tango fanatic club!) and the DF too :D

I totally know what you're saying! When I first started doing AT, I had no clue what it was. Ballroom tango was my favorite at the time, and I was very much into dancing, so when I met my AT instructor through my ballroom instructor, I thought, why not? So I went to my first AT class that afternoon, and that's it. I've been forever converted to a AT person! And no offense to the ballroom fanatics here, ballroom tango doesn't sound and look that intriguing to me anymore. :D But I do not know my tango anniversary!! :? (need to find that out) :lol:

AT is intoxicating. I'm not planning on giving up my ballroom any time soon, but I now fit in AT as often as possible.

[Patapouf]

So DP is into AT too! :banana:

Well, I'm not giving up ballroom either and still enjoy it very much, but I "feel" AT much much more than ballroom. Somehow I think if someday someone forces me to pick one and I have no choice but to make a decision, it will definitely be AT.

[DancePoet]

So DP is into AT too! :banana:

Well, I'm not giving up ballroom either and still enjoy it very much, but I "feel" AT much much more than ballroom. Somehow I think if someday someone forces me to pick one and I have no choice but to make a decision, it will definitely be AT.

Tango of any kind is my first love in dance.

[ReneeJoan]

DancePoet:

I enjoy lots of dances -- waltz, foxtrot, rumba, salsa, cha cha -- but my soul craves tango with a tangible, physical, spiritual hunger. Tango is so cleansing, so healing. I have felt the Madness of Dionysus descend a few times, but only during the tango. Tango is a storytelling art form, like ballet, and it gets into my soul and connects me to the gods in a way no other dance form does. Ballet I study for discipline. Tango I study for love. I remember the first time I lied to my children and snuck out of the house to go tango dancing in the middle of the night. I felt like I was having a rendezvous with a lover. And I guess I was, but not with a man. The Milonga I was going to I knew I wouldn't know anyone there (and I didn't), but I wasn't going because I was hoping to see any particular person there. It was Tango Argentino itself who was my lover. And everytime I see Him, I sigh with contentment, completely spent and satisfied afterwards. AT is a tender and fantastic lover, but jealous and extremely demanding. He brooks no rival. But then, what woman would want another after AT?? I cannot imagine.

Renee

[pygmalion]

Wow. 8)

[DancePoet]

I enjoy lots of dances -- waltz, foxtrot, rumba, salsa, cha cha -- but my soul craves tango with a tangible, physical, spiritual hunger. Tango is so cleansing, so healing. I have felt the Madness of Dionysus descend a few times, but only during the tango. Tango is a storytelling art form, like ballet, and it gets into my soul and connects me to the gods in a way no other dance form does. Ballet I study for discipline. Tango I study for love. I remember the first time I lied to my children and snuck out of the house to go tango dancing in the middle of the night. I felt like I was having a rendezvous with a lover. And I guess I was, but not with a man. The Milonga I was going to I knew I wouldn't know anyone there (and I didn't), but I wasn't going because I was hoping to see any particular person there. It was Tango Argentino itself who was my lover. And everytime I see Him, I sigh with contentment, completely spent and satisfied afterwards. AT is a tender and fantastic lover, but jealous and extremely demanding. He brooks no rival. But then, what woman would want another after AT?? I cannot imagine.

I like the way you write. :D

If you find a lover who likes AT as much as you ... AT might actually be even better. ;)

Although my emotion for AT does not seem to be quite as deep as your's (at least not yet ;) ), my love of reading, writing, and tango in general is very deep in deed. :D

[ReneeJoan]

Dear DancePoet:

"If you find a lover who likes AT as much as you ... AT might actually be even better."

One always hopes, with every dance. I'm not sure if it's really possible. Dionysus and Aphrodite are both very jealous gods, and I'm not sure either is interested in sharing a disciple with the other. You can give your life to Dionysus, and He will reward you, but you will probably suffer a lonely existance, as celebate and poor as a monk. You can devote your life to Aphrodite, and like Pygmalion, She might reward you too, but once you have Galetea in your arms, you may never sculpt again. I once danced tango with a friend of mine, and it was so beautiful that at the end of the number he had tears in his eyes and kissed me right on the dance floor. It was weeks before he danced with me again, and it has never been quite as lovely as it was that night. And a couple of weeks ago, everything came together so beautifully in my lesson that my teacher cut the lesson short because he didn't want to spoil it. That moment of tango ecstacy is so fragile. The Madness of Dionysus is terrifying, and as rich and exquisite as I know it would be, I still fight against that surrender, frightened of letting go, of being swept away and lost in that thundering torrent of tango ecstasy. The loss of the self, the surrender to the infinite, the oneness with the universe, as humans, we long for it. As humans, we resist it.

I think I shall have to let Hermann Hesse speak for me: "His heart belonged to women. They could win him easily: one longing look was enough. He found it hard to resist a woman and responded to the slightest hint. In spite of his strong sense of beauty, of his preference for the very young in the bloom of spring, he'd let himself be moved and seduced by women of little beauty who were no longer young. On the dance floor, he'd sometimes end up with a discouraged elderly girl who no one wanted, who'd win him by the pity he left for her, and not pity alone, but also a constantly vigilant curiosity. As soon as he gave himself to a woman -- whether it lasted weeks or just hours -- she became beautiful to him, and he gave himself competely. Experience taught him that every woman was beautiful and able to bring joy, that a mousy creature whom men ignored was capable of extraordinary fire and devotion, that the wilted had a more maternal, mourningly sweet tenderness, that each woman had her secrets and her charms, and to unlock these made him happy. In that respcet, all women were alike. Lack of youth or beauty was always balanced by some special gesture. But not every woman could hold him equally long. He was just as loving and grateful toward the ugly as toward the youngest and prettiest; he never loved halfway. But some women tied him to them more strongly after three or ten nights of love; others were exhausted after the first time and forgotten. Love and esctasy were to him the only truly warming things that gave life its value. . . . The rapid, soaring, blissful burning of desire, its brief, longing flame, its rapid extinction -- this seemed to him to contain the kernal of all experience, became to him the image of all the joys and sufferings of life. . . . Death and ecstasy were one."

Renee

[DancePoet]

Dear DancePoet:

"If you find a lover who likes AT as much as you ... AT might actually be even better."

One always hopes, with every dance. I'm not sure if it's really possible. I believe it could be, but even if not, having AT as a similar interest could certainly help. :D

Dionysus and Aphrodite are both very jealous gods, and I'm not sure either is interested in sharing a disciple with the other. You can give your life to Dionysus, and He will reward you, but you will probably suffer a lonely existance, as celebate and poor as a monk. You can devote your life to Aphrodite, and like Pygmalion, She might reward you too, but once you have Galetea in your arms, you may never sculpt again.
This makes me want to reread an important book that has shaped my life to see if it holds the answer to this apparent contradiction. ;)

I once danced tango with a friend of mine, and it was so beautiful that at the end of the number he had tears in his eyes and kissed me right on the dance floor. It was weeks before he danced with me again, and it has never been quite as lovely as it was that night. And a couple of weeks ago, everything came together so beautifully in my lesson that my teacher cut the lesson short because he didn't want to spoil it. That moment of tango ecstacy is so fragile.
Hmmm ... haven't experienced AT at this level, yet. Although other experiences lead me to believe this can be obtained more often then we think. ;)

The Madness of Dionysus is terrifying, and as rich and exquisite as I know it would be, I still fight against that surrender, frightened of letting go, of being swept away and lost in that thundering torrent of tango ecstasy. The loss of the self, the surrender to the infinite, the oneness with the universe, as humans, we long for it. As humans, we resist it.
Once again, very nice! :D

And where does the Herrmann Hesse quote come from?

[bordertangoman]

To quote Jack Kornfield:

" After the Ecstasy, the Laundry"

[Sagitta]

Right, and after not going to bed I do indeed have laundry to do. :car:

[ReneeJoan]

Dear Dance Poet:

Thank you for your kind words and your sympatico spirit.

The quote is from "Narcissus and Goldmund."

Something exquisite happened in my lesson last night and I want to share it with all of you and open it up to discussion, but I think I'd better start a new topic thread for it -- "Music of the Night"

Renee

[pygmalion]

Did you start the thread yet? I haven't seen it ... and I'm dying to. 8) :D

[ReneeJoan]

Yes, its int he tango Argentino area, and the topic is, "The Music of the Night."

I look forward to your comments.

renee

[DancePoet]

Hi folks!

Anyone else have a 1st Time AT Lesson Experience to share with us :?: