Question about shoes

[standardgirl]

I just got a pair of latin dance shoes from Capezio. But, my shoes slip on the dance floor. Does anyone have any idea about why this is happening? I have a shoe brush and I brush my shoes everytime after using them. Thank you~

[Sagitta]

Welcome to df chinwenl! What sort of soles do you have? That makes a difference.

[standardgirl]

It's Suede sole. I don't really understand the differences between soles. Can someone explain that to me? Thank you

[Chris Stratton]

Suede on shoe soles refers to the rough, unpolishable surface of a soft (chromium salts) tanned leather. It is either the inside surface of the skin, or more likely the leftover underlayer after the top layer is split off - so pieces are often called 'splits'. It should grip the floor a bit (when the nap is raised with a sharp brush) but still allow you to slide and spin when you want to.

Grain leather, as used on shoe uppers is the smooth polished stuff - the outer layer of the skin. It wouldn't make very good soles. (Patent leather is grain leather coated with a plastic-like substance to give it a permanent shine)

Vegetable tanned leather is very hard and slick - it's often used on street shoes but wouldn't provide enough traction for comfortable dancing on a wood floor. (Going outside and scuffing your feet back and forth on the sidewalk has been recommended as a means of getting a little extra traction for unexpected social dancing opportunities)

Rubber is usually too sticky for dancing, but some varieties may work in some cases. If a rubber sole sticks when you hadn't expected it to, there is the possibility of suffering at least a knee injury - hopefully only a temporary one.

The original poster seemed to be having slipping problems. One thing to do is to be really merciless with the shoe brush, and make sure it is a sharp one - some of the ones available are really made for cleaning the grit out of metal files, and so aren't sharp at all. Also the floor in question may simply have too much wax. In extreme cases, I've heard of people who had to do demonstrations on dangerously unsuitable floors resorting to using part of one of the anti-slip pads sold for street shoes on their dance shoes. There's one floor that used to be so waxy a roll of duct tape would be provided at classes - you could stick a piece to the sole of your dance shoe (shiny side on the floor) if you got really desperate, but it usually would fall off before the end of the hour.

[standardgirl]

Thanks a lot for the answer. That is really helpful. But now my quesiton is - which brand od shoe brush would you recommend me getting? The one I am using right now is from dance natural, I don't know how sharp is sharp enough. Also, the dance shoes are new (only been wearing them for 3 weeks), is it not normal to get slipping problem with new dance shoes?

[Sasashay]

is it not normal to get slipping problem with new dance shoes?

Hi chiwenl, no, it's not normal to get slipping problems with new dance shoes. Slipping problems usually occur when you've been using your dance shoes too long without brushing. As Chris Stratton says, there's a good possibility that the floor you danced on just got waxed, and that could create a problem, although I've danced on floors that were just waxed, and it became too sticky :)

[Chris Stratton]

Thanks a lot for the answer. That is really helpful. But now my quesiton is - which brand od shoe brush would you recommend me getting? The one I am using right now is from dance natural, I don't know how sharp is sharp enough.

There are two types of wire brushes I've seen:

One is flat with a large area of dull bristles. You can buy this in a hardware store, because it's actually designed to get metal particles out of the teeth of files. It's okay for loose dust and wax, but won't raise the nap. You could probably gently pull this over your hand without injury.

The other has a smaller head with the bristles set on a slight curve, has a rounded handle, and is wickedly sharp. You could press this against your hand, but you would cut yourself if you slid it over your skin.

Some people recommend a very gentle rolling or "picking" motion for brushing shoes. If all you are trying to do is get a little dirt off that's fine. But if you are trying to raise some nap on new, relatively compressed/dense suede, you have to really tear at it with the brush. You do have to be very carefull when doing this though, as one little slip and you raise the nap of the hand hodling the shoe...

[ACtenDance]

Using pipe cleaners works well on stubborn suede soles. I'm not talking about the old grade school kind of pipe cleaner... I'm talking about the metal wire-brush kind that a plumber would use for small pipes. I've seen this make soles like new, but be careful, they're very sharp. I've seen people use a cut off piece of pvc pipe as a sheath for the brush. They can be found in hardware stores.

[JohnK]

Related questions -

How often should you brush the soles, and...

when do you know it's time to replace your dance shoes (besides obvious holes, split seams, etc)?

I'm still on my 1st pair of dance shoes, about a year old, they get about 6-8 hrs a week use. I have a sharp shoe brush (maybe don't use it as often as I should), but it seems nearly impossible to raise the nap any more.

Anyone (recommend or ever tried) using a solvent to scrub off wax build up?

[Laura]

I've been told it's possible to be so vigorous with the brush that you can eventually wear the nap off the soles. I don't know if that's true or not, but I recall reading it somewhere.

[Chris Stratton]

I think it's theoretically possible to wear through the soles, but I haven't yet managed to do it before tearing the uppers.

If she sole isn't rough enough to grip, I say dig into it - it may wear out in a year instead of two, but a shoe that lasts forever without doing its job is no bargain.

Though as dance technique improves it does seem more possible to deal with less than ideal floor friction situations. One thing I've been really noticing lately is how accruate foot placement makes a big difference in the qualify of figures. I would guess that placing the feet more accurately reduces the amount of friction needed, and increases your ability to get your weight over the foot, which would increase the friction available.

[Joe]

If your shoes are slipping a lot you might want to consider working on your technique. I know we had this discussion on Dancescape, and the Latin folks like a slow floor, but your standing leg is still your standing leg in Latin or Standard.

I find that I rarely need to brush my shoes...perhaps once every other month. I'm a Standard boy, though.

[ayume]

I'm currently doing a search and found this thread by accident. My coaches passed on a tip: Rub castor oil on the soles. This really works, espcially on dirty or too-waxy floors.

[kansas49er]

I am really confused here. My shoes seem to be much slicker, for instance--in doing pivots, after I brush them up to make the nap stand. Also, from a strictly mechanical point of view, this would seem to be correct becaue you have a smaller surface contact with the floor.

[leftfeetnyc]

I dance 10-12 hours in a normal week, 20-25 in a competition week and find myself wearing the nap on the soles down so much that after 6 months I need to have them resoled.

I am of the school that you can be overly vigerous in brushing can wear some of the nap off. I'm at that place right now with my favorite shoes. They are in perfectly good condition and feel so wondefull, I practically live in them at competition weekends and only take them off to shower (yes, I've been known to sleep in them). When I first got dance shoes, I would brush them once a week. It's a habit I havn't entirely gotten out of as I feel frequent brushing avoids getting to the point where you need to really dig into the shoe. But now my technique has improved so drastically in the last two months that I find it not as necessary to brush them as often as I can compensate with newly learned body control.

I do find new shoes to slide a little bit more than a worn in and brushed pair. Like any shoe it doesn't have any experience in it, no dust and dirt from the floor, and the suade is still very soft. After a night or two the suade seems perfect and I have about a month and a half before brushing begins.

My brush is a large flat wooden handle and back with metal bristles. While not sharp enough to do major damage, I have torn skin a few times when really working the suade before a competition. Be sure to hold the shoe a bit away from you when brushing..if you have a sensitive nose the tiny bits of suade that come off and the dust and dirt that comes out can be unpleasant.

[ayume]

I am really confused here. My shoes seem to be much slicker, for instance--in doing pivots, after I brush them up to make the nap stand. Also, from a strictly mechanical point of view, this would seem to be correct becaue you have a smaller surface contact with the floor.

The castor oil seems to provide some kind of traction with wax on the dance floor. I've tried brushing my soles out, but it never works as well as castor oil, espeically on dirty floors since the dirt will get caught in the nap and "smooth out" the nap.

[wyllo]

At one competition I attended the floors were slick as ice - turns out the building managers were so excited that a dance competition was being held in their building that they decided to wax all of the floors the day before the comp. I hear castor oil works well in cases like this, but since no one carries that around I'm told soda works too. I'm not sure if your soles will ever recover from that though...

As for shoe brushes -- I like the ones that are curved and sharp since I rarely brush my shoes and they need some extra strength help. But it stings like crazy when you accidently brush your hand!

[standardgirl]

At one competition I attended the floors were slick as ice - turns out the building managers were so excited that a dance competition was being held in their building that they decided to wax all of the floors the day before the comp. I hear castor oil works well in cases like this, but since no one carries that around I'm told soda works too. I'm not sure if your soles will ever recover from that though...


I like water....since they will just dry out and wont harm your sole.
Water works quite well for me in latin, in standard, it often turns the soles to sticky though.

[Larinda McRaven]

I use castor oil at a competition if the floor is just too slick and absolutely everyone is falling. If it is only mildly slick, well then buck-up buddy and get over your feet. I also NEVER practice with castor oil, that only would train me to rely in the extra traction. And I never use water , since it only lasts for the first wall and then my shoes are slippery again.

We also take several of shoes with us to competitions so that if the floor is fast we use a certain pair, if the floor is slow we can switch to a different pair.

Castor oil is a last resort, but when a comp floor is trecherous it is a life-saver.

[Joe]

If it is only mildly slick, well then buck-up buddy and get over your feet.
Quoted for truth.