Gender Imbalance in WCS Community

[rbazsz]

I know what most of you are thinking by the title -- but in this case there are too many men and not enough women that turn up for West Coast Swing.

I take WCS lessons in various places in the Phoenix area and in all of them the number of men far outnumbers the women. It doesn't seem to matter who is teaching or which studio there is always more men.

In a recent WCS group lesson and dance afterwards there was probably 30% more men. A couple days later I went to a studio across town (about 30 miles) and there was 27 men and 8 women. Ironically a famous WCS dancer walked in and danced with the few ladies that were there. That was their lucky day!

Typically after the lessons men hang around for awhile and get discouraged and go home. The less skilled men learn very quickly that ladies become very selective when there is a large pool of men to choose from. The guys either get tired of women putting them down or saying no -- so they shrug their shoulders and leave.

As the evening goes on the gender balance evens out but not because more women show up -- it's more because men leave.

WCS isn't the only dance I have seen this happen at. I was very surprised that lessons in Night Club Two Step, Waltz, and ECS have more men. Recently a Tango lesson I went to had far too many men -- and a week later the same was true for Cha Cha. WCS is definitely the most imbalanced however.

About the only place you will see more women than men is the ballroom parties.

Eventually this situation will balance out because men will give up on the dancing scene. Then women will complain that not enough men dance. :confused:

Can anybody explain why there seems to be such gender imbalances -- especially in WCS? Do people in other cities see the same thing happening?

[Spitfire]

Even at the DCS? Now, I'm not up there every week, but maybe if I haven't noticed when I do go for a WCS dance is that I've always found enough ladies to dance with up there.

Now, down here it's about even - men to women at the WCS dances.

[rbazsz]

Even at the DCS? Now, I'm not up there every week, but maybe if I haven't noticed when I do go for a WCS dance is that I've always found enough ladies to dance with up there.

Now, down here it's about even - men to women at the WCS dances.

Yes, even DCS on most Sundays.

I expect that to change tomorrow because Luis Crespo will be at the VFW GPSDC event. I expect him to attract lots of female admirers.

[Spitfire]

Yes, even DCS on most Sundays.

I expect that to change tomorrow because Luis Crespo will be at the VFW GPSDC event. I expect him to attract lots of female admirers.

He was here a few weeks ago to give a workshop.

[jennyisdancing]

I know what most of you are thinking by the title -- but in this case there are too many men and not enough women that turn up for West Coast Swing.

I take WCS lessons in various places in the Phoenix area and in all of them the number of men far outnumbers the women. It doesn't seem to matter who is teaching or which studio there is always more men.

Can anybody explain why there seems to be such gender imbalances -- especially in WCS? Do people in other cities see the same thing happening?

Amazing...what is this surplus of men of which you speak? Never witnessed it. Hmmm...maybe time to move West. :rolleyes:

[Steve Pastor]

Can anybody explain why there seems to be such gender imbalances -- especially in WCS?

Missed this thread before because I was away.

I've been working on Skippy Blair's West Coast 101 and the 15 Basic patterns stuff.
One thing you learn there is that the woman has a relatively limited set of things she has to learn compared to the man, who has to learn how to lead all of the patterns. Of course they both have to learn the same basics, and there are things specific to the woman's role that have to be learned.

To me, though, I can see that I can get someone to do all of the patterns if I can get them familiar enough to have that limited set of responses that are found in all the basic moves.

Now, if you take one of Skippy's intensives, there will be plenty to work on if you are leading or not. Other instructors, though...

I'm thinking it's like Argentine Tango, where the men keep taking lessons and most women stop. Mostly that's because most teaching is about doing patterns, and the women get the message that they are supposed to "just follow". (I've always seen a lot of parallels between the two dances.) So they stop taking lessons.

Meanwhile the guys are still trying to put the feet and the leads and the music together well enough that they can get dances.

[twnkltoz]

That is definitely not the case here in Northern California. While there will be extra men maybe 50% of the time in classes (as someone mentioned, many women don't feel the need to take classes after a point). However, there is ALWAYS more men than women at the social dances. Yet, we sit around and wait our turn. Most women won't leave just because there are too many women. We just sit and chat and wait until we get a chance to dance. Men don't seem to be able to do that.

[opendoor]

Though I am a tango dancer, I encountered the same phenomenon frequently in the tango community of my home town: Very often I early left a party frustrated because there were no women around to dance with. I thought this way until my girlfriend opened my eyes. By now we try to compare our impressions the next day. Her answer to my moaning always is : What?! More guys than girls, seriously, have you seen a, b, c, d, e, f, ....... x, y, and z sitting and waiting for a dance? I actually didnt, but she did. So bit by bit I come to the insight, that inverse gender imbalance is a matter of male perception and male brain. So, sorry girls, we dont do so deliberately and consciously. Whereas I am not that sure now whether this confession makes the things worse or....

[rbazsz]

That is definitely not the case here in Northern California. While there will be extra men maybe 50% of the time in classes (as someone mentioned, many women don't feel the need to take classes after a point). However, there is ALWAYS more men than women at the social dances. Yet, we sit around and wait our turn. Most women won't leave just because there are too many women. We just sit and chat and wait until we get a chance to dance. Men don't seem to be able to do that.

I too noticed that men leave the dances early if there are fewer women. So, when the dances have too many men I tend to sit it out for awhile. It never takes more than 30-45 minutes for many of the men to clear out. Once that happens my odds of getting good ladies to dance with are greatly improved.

[Spitfire]

Has there been a reverse trend? In the past women outnumbered men at dances; something the ladies would often lament about.

[rbazsz]

Has there been a reverse trend? In the past women outnumbered men at dances; something the ladies would often lament about.

Yes, there is definitely a reverse trend. Lately there has been a flood of men who are interested in learning to dance.

Of course I can only speak for the Phoenix metro area. Other parts of the country might be different.

Ballroom usually still has an excess of women but in every other type of dance there is more men. That's especially true in Country, West Coast Swing, East Coast Swing, and Lindy. Even the ballrooms aren't bad for the ladies because there are usually dance hosts that make sure no lady sits down very long.

Ladies in Phoenix rarely have to wait long to dance because as soon as they sit down there will be a man asking them to the floor.

[Wolfgang]

Regardless of whether it's WCS or anything (and I do mean anything....) else, there are ALWAYS at least a few extra guys. In lessons, socials, practice parties and such, the ratio tends to be about 60-40.
In what I call the Real World (night clubs and other 'uncontrolled' environments), it's more like 5:1 or even 15:1.
Apparently, the entire western US suffers from a shortage of women, according to varioius web sources, dancing or no dancing.

[Grilas]

One solution, as far as the lessons are concerned (and even some parties if you're comfortable enough), is for the guys to learn the followers part as well. This would even out the leads and follows for the class to allow more dancing for everyone. Which in turn gives the guys both more practice and some insight into what the follower experiences, both of which will expedite the process of becoming a better dancer. I know this at least used to be a common practice amongst those learning Argentine tango.

[Steve Pastor]

I know this at least used to be a common practice amongst those learning Argentine tango.
Well, at least in lessons. Sometimes in practicas, but much less so. Practically never in miolongas.

[Wolfgang]

All of those men flooding the dance studios/lessons are there because they have been told they are great places to meet women.
See also: fairy tales, urban legends, political speeches and other lies.
I have attended dance classes where there were 3 men, 0 women and 1 male instructor playing the part of the 'follow'.
Yes, it can get that pathetic.
The one notable exception being Country line dancing.
There's a weekly CLD class held at a local night club (during 'off' hours) that usually has 10-20 or so women, 1-3 men.

[Spitfire]

All of those men flooding the dance studios/lessons are there because they have been told they are great places to meet women.
See also: fairy tales, urban legends, political speeches and other lies.
I have attended dance classes where there were 3 men, 0 women and 1 male instructor playing the part of the 'follow'.
Yes, it can get that pathetic.
The one notable exception being Country line dancing.
There's a weekly CLD class held at a local night club (during 'off' hours) that usually has 10-20 or so women, 1-3 men.

Are the social dances at the studios likewise? I've been dancing at the WCS club and USAdance held at the square dance center there in Albuquerque and those are good; plenty of ladies to dance with and a lot of men too.

[Wolfgang]

If you are of baby boomer age + (and looking for same), those are good.
If not, not so much.

[Spitfire]

If you are of baby boomer age + (and looking for same), those are good.
If not, not so much.

Yeah, don't recall many young people at either of those. Traveled there a couple of times when I was living in the Show Low, Arizona area.

[chuck4788]

I know what most of you are thinking by the title -- but in this case there are too many men and not enough women that turn up for West Coast Swing.

I take WCS lessons in various places in the Phoenix area and in all of them the number of men far outnumbers the women. It doesn't seem to matter who is teaching or which studio there is always more men.

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I've observed the same thing in the Phoenix area and don't know why. I've also observed the opposite in other locals.

My wife keeps track of the lead/follow ratio because it has an impact on her dances, and she likes Phoenix!

When in Phoenix we visit Arthur Murry (DCS), VFW (GPSC), Paragon, and Graham Central. We'll be back in Phoenix this fall, maybe our paths will cross.

[Spitfire]

I've observed the same thing in the Phoenix area and don't know why. I've also observed the opposite in other locals.

My wife keeps track of the lead/follow ratio because it has an impact on her dances, and she likes Phoenix!

When in Phoenix we visit Arthur Murry (DCS), VFW (GPSC), Paragon, and Graham Central. We'll be back in Phoenix this fall, maybe our paths will cross.

Great choices. Never been to Graham Central though.