Little Known Facts For Leaders

[Vince A]

1. Good leads are better than bad leads
2. Light leads are lighter than heavier leads
3. Strong leads are stronger than weak leads

[pygmalion]

How about bad leads are better than no leads? :roll: :wink:

[Vince A]

Ah, you caught my lead . . . I'm trying to get others to keep adding to this . . .

[tsb]

- simple moves led well are preferable to more complicated moves led poorly;
- smiling & making occasional eye contact is preferable to not smiling and/or looking bored;
- choosing moves less challenging for the follower is preferable to selecting moves that are beyond the follower's ability to execute;

[Vince A]

We could even start making up our own DF of "Dance Confucious" like this one I just made up . . .

Man who step back one in WCS, usually lead too!

[Chris Stratton]

Man who try following make better lead

[Vince A]

Man who try following make better lead
Excellent!!!!

[twnkltoz]

Woman who let man follow get more dances.

[Vince A]

LOL . . . great!

[SDsalsaguy]

Woman who let man lead get even more dances!

[pygmalion]

Woman who leads while making man think he leads ... is a teacher at Arthur Murray. :lol: :lol: Just kidding!!!

[DancePoet]

Woman who back leads should stop.

[bjp22tango]

How about bad leads are better than no leads? :roll: :wink:

From a follower - NOT NECESSARILY


Painful leads lead to the hospital.

[jon]

If your follower isn't getting your lead, leading more forcefully is much more likely to cause her pain than to make your intent clear.

[twnkltoz]

Woman who let man follow get more dances.

DOH!! I did that wrong.

"Woman who let man lead get more dances."

[etchuck]

Great... sounds like we should add "in bed" to each aphorism.

Advice to leaders to me boils down to:
1) Stay on time.
2) Have fun.
3) Don't grope.

As for the art of leading...
Leading involves maximal suggestion with minimal force.

[Sagitta]

Woman who let man follow get more dances.

DOH!! I did that wrong.

"Woman who let man lead get more dances."

Noooo!!!! :(

[SDsalsaguy]

Leading involves maximal suggestion with minimal force.
Great formulation etchuck! :D

[Vince A]

You can always lead a follower to the dance floor, but you can't make them dance.

[salsachinita]

The more a follower knows, the less she knows 8) .

Traffic hazards (on the dance floor, that is) are caused by bad leads.

[suek]

If "lead" means to go first (you could look it up), it also means (to me) that the lead must be timely and committed. I am learning to lead now and I see that when my lead is uncommitted, or incomplete, my follower doesn't know what I want or where I want his or her body to move.

Also, speaking now as a follower: lead me with your body, your core--not your arms! I think the WCS dancers in the group might not agree. Maybe the lindy hoppers and balboa dancers will be the only ones who get what I mean. Them and the Argentine Tango-ers.

Here's a hint for the leaders: My job as a follower is to step underneath myself and wait wait wait for the lead to tell me where and how to move. No anticipation. No "I know this move, I'm supposed to go forward and then turn around on the 3and4 and then move the other way." No! Even a lindy hop swingout can have multiple flavas and be changed, altered, turned inside out and morphed into something else and if I'm following (coming after) and not anticipating and keeping my footwork/rhythm, wonderful things can happen.

[etchuck]

Also, speaking now as a follower: lead me with your body, your core--not your arms! I think the WCS dancers in the group might not agree. Maybe the lindy hoppers and balboa dancers will be the only ones who get what I mean. Them and the Argentine Tango-ers.

WHOA WHOA WHOA.... Not so fast! As a westie dancer, I absolutely agree you must lead with your center/core, not your arms. As a ballroomer, I agree. Maybe you don't need to if you're a novice contra dancer. Or grinder.

[jon]

Also, speaking now as a follower: lead me with your body, your core--not your arms! I think the WCS dancers in the group might not agree.

Who have you been learning WCS from? Leading with your center is one of the most fundamental techniques in the dance.

[SDsalsaguy]

Also, speaking now as a follower: lead me with your body, your core--not your arms! I think the WCS dancers in the group might not agree.

Who have you been learning WCS from? Leading with your center is one of the most fundamental techniques in the dance.
Same for ballroom and salsa as well!!! :shock:

[Vince A]

suek,
I was going to join the group and gang up on you, but I think you got what they said? Besides, I may have to Lindy w/you some day???

[SDsalsaguy]

Ack! I certainly didn't mean to "gang up" on SueK in case that's how it came across! :oops: :oops: :oops:

And I'd certainly agree that any number of dancers fail to do this -- in all styles I'm sure -- but, ideally, I think that leading from the center is fundamental to all partnered dancing.

[suek]

Phew! Was it good for you? The gang-bang?

Kidding aside, I wish you guys were my WCS partners.

No that doesn't state it right, either.

It's different; in WCS a lighter (presumptive?) lead is used. I often get looked at askance by my lead in WCS because I haven't moved forward when all I've felt has been very light, leadwise. (If I moved forward with that small amount of lead in lindy hop, I'd get even more of a "look"! As in hey I didn't led you yet!) I don't have the same "communication problem" in Carolina Shag, which has a totally unique lead/follow communication going on. Sigh. I'm sure it's me.

[jon]

It's different; in WCS a lighter (presumptive?) lead is used.

I'd agree that generally WCS leads are lighter than Lindy, with the caveat that it of course can vary by style and region - frex country-based WCS dancers, IME, are likely to have heavier connections. Perhaps the tempo differences in the favored music for Lindy and WCS bear on this as well; more speculative here, but as I dance to faster music, it feels more natural to use a stronger lead (unless dancing with a Ferrari, rather than a Honda :-)). In any event, this is a different issue from arm leads.

Not sure how you mean "presumptive"?

[suek]

It's different; in WCS a lighter (presumptive?) lead is used.I'd agree that generally WCS leads are lighter than Lindy, with the caveat that it of course can vary by style and region - frex country-based WCS dancers, IME, are likely to have heavier connections. Frex?
Not sure how you mean "presumptive"?
As in the lead twitches his/her hand and it's presumed that I will come forward. Bends his/her arm and it's presumed I will execute a side pass. This sounds coarser than I intend; I don't have the vocabulary to state the fine distinctions and Damon--my best interpreter--is sunning his self in Hawaii. Dance with me and I'll illustrate my point; I'm better at the visceral than the verbal.

[jon]

Frex?

"for example".

As in the lead twitches his/her hand and it's presumed that I will come forward. Bends his/her arm and it's presumed I will execute a side pass.

There is a continuum between adapting to lighter leads than you're used to, and telepathically interpreting nonexistent leads, although of course as a follower you are under pressure to do both :-)

I don't get to Sacramento often, but maybe we'll intersect at Two Left Feet sometime.

[twnkltoz]

Man who dance in sweater and never wash it repel partner.

[Chris Stratton]

Man who dance in sweater and never wash it repel partner.

Woman who dance in gown and never wash it "because the stones would fall off" ___________ ____________?

[Vince A]

jon and suek,
If you all decide to go to Two Left Feet someday, let me know? Care and I go there a lot. Scorpianguy wants to try it too . . .

[El Quimico De La Salsa]

Smooth and steady will please a lady.

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

Is she limps or calls an ambulance after the dance, you may consider being a little less rough.

[Vince A]

Man who slip on dancefloor and fall flat on face have crack up!

Think about it . . .

[Purr]

Man who slip on dancefloor and fall flat on face have crack up!

Think about it . . .


:shock: :lol: :wink:

[suek]

jon and suek,
If you all decide to go to Two Left Feet someday, let me know? Care and I go there a lot. Scorpianguy wants to try it too . . .1. After ganging up on me now you want to dance with me? (joke.)
2. what's 2 left feet? when and where and what kind of dancing?

[suek]

oh if it's the one in Danville I just found in google, that has WCS on Saturdays, no wonder I've never heard of it.

Is that the one you mean?

[Sakura]

Man (or Leader) who helps woman (or Follow) through move she/he doesn't undestand/do well is well praised.

Having Fun is main goal of Dancing.

Man who angers woman should beware of high heels. :twisted:

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

[Vince A]

jon and suek,
If you all decide to go to Two Left Feet someday, let me know? Care and I go there a lot. Scorpianguy wants to try it too . . .1. After ganging up on me now you want to dance with me? (joke.)
2. what's 2 left feet? when and where and what kind of dancing?Hi Sue, I missed your reply . . .

After the gang up on you??? Sure, I'd want to dance with you again . . . you follow very well!

Yes, it's the one in Danville, and Fridays are the best days . . . strictly WCS, ECS, Lindy for those that do it, Hustle, Cha Cha, NC2S . . . Saturdays are pretty much the same except they add some *choke* Two Stepping . . .

Many Pros come in around 11:00, and sometimes, it's just fun to sit and watch, then again, time to grab a Pro and dance!

It's about an hour-and-a-half drive for us . . . probably an hour for you???

We save TLF for those Fridays that we get off work early and have no plans for Sat morning . . .

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

Ladies, if you get dizzy, tell us...

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

If the person you want to dance with looks like there´re going to pass out, wait for another oportunity.

[Sakura]

If the person you want to dance with looks like there´re going to pass out, wait for another oportunity.

:shock: And get them some water after sitting them down!

SK :kitty:

[Sagitta]

If the person you want to dance with looks like there´re going to pass out, wait for another oportunity.

Grab them as they probably aren't in full control of all their faculties, their senses!! When you dance they can swoon on you! :wink: :) Which guy does not want a lady to swoon on him, I ask you?

[swinginstyle]

Wash your hands after visiting the restroom. Make sure to dry your hands.

[Swing Kitten]

Which guy does not want a lady to swoon on him, I ask you?

I can imagine some circumstnaces where that may be less than pleasant... but then again, I'm not a guy so who knows?!

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

If she looks bored, lead her into an endless sequence of spins. :wink: :wink:

[Vince A]

Man who take longer stride take big step

[Swing Kitten]

that's a subtle one Vince ;)

[Vince A]

"Longer Strides" . . . "take bigger steps" . . . those are echoes of my Pro, esp in Waltz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sagitta]

If she looks bored, lead her into an endless sequence of spins. :wink: :wink:

I know a couple ladies who love spins too!! I start spinning and they want to go on and on and on... Very good advice MPS.

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

If she looks bored, lead her into an endless sequence of spins. :wink: :wink:

I know a couple ladies who love spins too!! I start spinning and they want to go on and on and on... Very good advice MPS.

Well actually Sagitta, I was referring to those ladies who look completely bored out of their minds, or are looking every which way except at their partner. These ladies need to be educated... :twisted: After a strong dosage of spins, they´ll give over their boredom. Nevertheless, they may never want to dance with you again, but that´s beside the point. :wink:

I do know however a number of ladies that love spinning. Some even say, "what only 5 spins?!". :shock:

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

Good follows are a rare species. :cry:

[SDsalsaguy]

Good follows are a rare species. :cry:
...and should be carefully cultivated accordingly!

[Chris Stratton]

"Longer Strides" . . . "take bigger steps" . . . those are echoes of my Pro, esp in Waltz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You might want to find a new teacher. The way to take big steps is not to try to take big steps, but to learn to execute every phase of the stepping action properly.

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

Dancing with a great variety of follows from ALL levels makes you a better lead.

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

Dancing with only the BEST will undermine your lead.

[don_svendo]

Lead is heavier than iron.

[SDsalsaguy]

Lead is heavier than iron.
:doh:

[Sabor]

to lead or not to lead..
.. that is the question

[don_svendo]

:doh:
I wish you would stop doing that, SDsalsaguy!... Looks kinda painful. :D

[don_svendo]

to lead or not to lead..
.. that is the question
:doh: :lol:

[Pacion]

Woman who leads while making man think he leads ... is a teacher at Arthur Murray. :lol: :lol: Just kidding!!!

Actually, I think this one can apply where the man is a beginner :wink: and the woman is competent enough to make it look like the man is leading through all the moves :D

[SDsalsaguy]

:doh:
I wish you would stop doing that, SDsalsaguy!... Looks kinda painful. :D
....
to lead or not to lead..
.. that is the question
:doh: :lol:
:doh: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Sakura]

to lead or not to lead..
.. that is the question

Whether 'tis nobler to Dance the Salsa, or turn that girl down because your feet are screaming, "GET OFF OF ME!!!!"

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Btw, nice new Sig. Sabor! =^_^=

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

[Sagitta]

Good follows are a rare species. :cry:
...and should be carefully cultivated accordingly!

I'll make an acceptable exception for eugenics in this case.

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

Woman who leads while making man think he leads ... is a teacher at Arthur Murray. :lol: :lol: Just kidding!!!

Actually, I think this one can apply where the man is a beginner :wink: and the woman is competent enough to make it look like the man is leading through all the moves :D

You may get away with this with a beginner but a more experienced dancer would spot you a mile away... 8)

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

When dancing with a wild beast, don´t try to tame her.

[SDsalsaguy]

When dancing with a wild beast, don´t try to tame her.
...just hope you can run faster! :shock:

[Anonymous]

Col. Alois Podjasky always said "Sad is the teacher who can no longer learn"...

Sad is the leader who cannot also follow would be my redundation (poni-ism) of the thread :)

[Sagitta]

Col. Alois Podjasky always said "Sad is the teacher who can no longer learn"...

Sad is the leader who cannot also follow would be my redundation (poni-ism) of the thread :)

I'll follow, but can you lead?

[Anonymous]

Nope, that's why I ain't a leader.

[Sakura]

When dancing with a wild beast, don´t try to tame her.
...just hope you can run faster! :shock:

:shock: :shock: STAMPEDE!!!!!!

:lol: :lol: :wink:

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

Perfection is rarely encountered on the dance floor.

[Sagitta]

Nope, that's why I ain't a leader.

Hey!! :shock: It goes both ways. It should!

[Vince A]

I'll follow, but can you lead?

"I am leading, I am leading."

"Aren't I???"

[Sakura]

I'll follow, but can you lead?

"I am leading, I am leading."

"Aren't I???"

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

SK :kitty:

[Mr Cool]

For me leading depends on the feel of the lady. and needs to be adjusted to suit each partner, some ladies need only the lightest lead throughout and tend to be a joy too lead, others need a very firm lead, many require a mixture of the two. I particuarly enjoy giving the lady time to do her thing. The worst are the ones who are almost but never quite on the music one tends to try to lead them into it but this can be very difficult and I confess I sometimes resort to a lot of breakaway steps in flustration, and making a mental note to not ask her to dance again. 8) 8) 8) 8)

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

If you look and drool over her cleavage for more than 2/3 of the song, you may lessen your chances of getting that second dance.

Then again, I may be wrong... :wink:

[Vince A]

If you look and drool over her cleavage for more than 2/3 of the song, you may lessen your chances of getting that second dance.

Then again, I may be wrong... :wink:
OK . . . I'll give it a try . . . if I get hit, can I blame it on you?
Anything else, and I'll take the credit :twisted:

[jon]

If you look and drool over her cleavage for more than 2/3 of the song, you may lessen your chances of getting that second dance.

Especially if you drool onto your partner's cleavage rather than onto the floor, as polite leaders know to do.

[Sakura]

If you look and drool over her cleavage for more than 2/3 of the song, you may lessen your chances of getting that second dance.

Especially if you drool onto your partner's cleavage rather than onto the floor, as polite leaders know to do.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: You leads are a very interesting lot, aren't you?! =^_~=

And welcome to the DF, Mr. Cool!

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

If you look and drool over her cleavage for more than 2/3 of the song, you may lessen your chances of getting that second dance.

Then again, I may be wrong... :wink:
OK . . . I'll give it a try . . . if I get hit, can I blame it on you?
Anything else, and I'll take the credit :twisted:

Yeah sure Vince, just blame it on poor MapleLeaf. :wink: 8)

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

If you look and drool over her cleavage for more than 2/3 of the song, you may lessen your chances of getting that second dance.

Especially if you drool onto your partner's cleavage rather than onto the floor, as polite leaders know to do.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: You leads are a very interesting lot, aren't you?! =^_~=


Yeah Sakura, we´re such a considerate bunch aren´t we? 8)

[Vince A]

Yes . . . just give me a follow who doesn't consider my drooling as inconsiderant . . .

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

If you want to dance with her, then ASK her. :wink:

[twnkltoz]

If you want to dance with her, then ASK her. :wink:

Here's a funny story. When my husband and I were first becoming friends at the dance studio, he had a little crush on this girl. When the last song came on, we were standing by each other and he asked me if it would be bad etiquette to ask her for the last dance since she was there with someone. I said probably not if her date didnt' seem to mind. As we were talking, she got up and danced with her date, so now-DH asked me to dance. I gave him a heck of a ribbing for being his second choice. :D

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

If you want to dance with her, then ASK her. :wink:

Here's a funny story. When my husband and I were first becoming friends at the dance studio, he had a little crush on this girl. When the last song came on, we were standing by each other and he asked me if it would be bad etiquette to ask her for the last dance since she was there with someone. I said probably not if her date didnt' seem to mind. As we were talking, she got up and danced with her date, so now-DH asked me to dance. I gave him a heck of a ribbing for being his second choice. :D

Oh come on! Hasn´t he told you yet that it was YOU who he was really interested in at the time. :wink:

[twnkltoz]

LOL nope! Although he did tell me later that he assumed I wouldn't give him the time of day, even though our mutual friend the dj told him that the ambient temperature spiked every time I came over to the dj booth to talk to them. :)

[DWise1]

LOL nope! Although he did tell me later that he assumed I wouldn't give him the time of day, ...
OTOH, (before we met) my wife would always give the guy the time of day. He'd ask her for her phone number and she'd give the number for time (he'd never recognize it because here only the first three numbers matter and the last four could be anything).

In my case, she drew me a map to her house.

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

If the lady is hugging and kissing her boyfriend/husband, don´t interrupt her for a dance request. :wink:

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

If for some reason there´s a lady you loathe dancing with, make sure you´re always on the opposite side of floor. 8)

[shopper-lisa]

Woman who back leads should stop.

what is back leading? :?:

[shopper-lisa]

For me leading depends on the feel of the lady. and needs to be adjusted to suit each partner, some ladies need only the lightest lead throughout and tend to be a joy too lead, others need a very firm lead, many require a mixture of the two. I particuarly enjoy giving the lady time to do her thing. The worst are the ones who are almost but never quite on the music one tends to try to lead them into it but this can be very difficult and I confess I sometimes resort to a lot of breakaway steps in flustration, and making a mental note to not ask her to dance again. 8) 8) 8) 8)

oh no! I am worried that people are thinking that about me... I am a new lindy hopper (only been dancing for a couple of months) and at times I cannot tell if I am supposed to be doing the 6 or 8 count steps and also the little syncopated steps can be hard to read if the upper body isn't moving at all in either way... UG!

[Sagitta]

Woman who back leads should stop.

what is back leading? :?:

Welcome shopper-lisa! Backleading is where a person who is doing the follower footwork leads him/herself through moves. He/she does what she wants/anticipates rather then what is led.

[shopper-lisa]

thanks for explaining back leading. Very helpful! :lol:

[pygmalion]

LOL! If you're like most new followers, you may not know what it's called, but already know how to backlead. Backleading has to be unlearned. at least, I had to unlearn it. :oops: :lol:

[shopper-lisa]

very true! And I got away with back leading during the lessons when were all doing set patterns of steps. But my first try on the social dance floor was pretty tough! For the first time I am having to learn to really feel the lead. It's so much fun though.

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

very true! And I got away with back leading during the lessons when were all doing set patterns of steps.

Backleading during lessons can sometimes be a good thing. If the pattern is long and complicated and the leader is lost, backleading can be helpful but only if the follower knows the pattern and if the leader doesn´t mind...

While social dancing, backleading is problably the worst thing a follower can do. I personally would prefer dancing with someone who has never danced in their lives than dancing with someone who backleads...

[Sagitta]

very true! And I got away with back leading during the lessons when were all doing set patterns of steps.

Backleading during lessons can sometimes be a good thing. If the pattern is long and complicated and the leader is lost, backleading can be helpful but only if the follower knows the pattern and if the leader doesn´t mind...

While social dancing, backleading is problably the worst thing a follower can do. I personally would prefer dancing with someone who has never danced in their lives than dancing with someone who backleads...

You backlead during the lesson and then the leader dances like crap on the dance floor. A fair warning to all!! Never backlead unless the ledaer knows that you are doing it and you are doing it to show the leader what it should be like. I do little things in the latin lessons I teach / help out to stop all anticipating / backleading from followers.

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

Ladies, do not ask for a garantee of a certain proficiency level before accepting a dance.

[Jell-O]

Never forget Murphy's laws

- Nothing is as easy as it looks.
- If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something
- If anything can go wrong, it will.
- If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong
- Just when you think things cannot get any worse, they will

;)

[SDsalsaguy]

Welcome to the Dance Forums Jell-O! :D

[Sagitta]

welcome jell-o!

[youngsta]

Youngsta say...Big step during fast song cause off-beat