Ballroom Dance Shows - Can they be brought back to TV?

[cy_phi]

Hi all,

I'm looking for reasons why ballroom dance shows are not on TV anymore. I believe the last one was broadcast nearly three years ago on A&E [with hosts Clive Phillips and Suzanne Somers], and I think it was the IDSF Latin Comp in Slovenia where Andrei Skufca and Katerina Venturini won.

About a year ago, I took the initiative to investigate what it took to get these shows back on TV. I talked to a producer of the local PBS station, WGBH, here in Boston and asked her what could be done to bring back these dance shows. She told me the original producer, Aida Moreno, had moved on to different projects and that the ball [for lack of a better term] was dropped producing these shows.

She also told me that producing the previous shows, which was taped at the Ohio Star Ball, cost approximately $400,000, and that there was a sponsor for 2003 but they pulled the funding at the last moment. Also, in order for a show to be produced, it has to be presented before an editorial board for approval.

I asked her if WGBH would be interested in producing a dance show locally in Boston that way production costs would be relatively low. I told her about the Yankee Classic in Cambridge. Her reply was sure it would be less expensive to produce the show locally but we'd have to contend with the local unions. Also that the YC, compared to Ohio Star, would be too small a venue.

I've seen topics on bringing Strictly Come Dancing from BBC here to the US but I don't believe it will have the same effect as watching the top professional couples compete. However, it could be an interesting concept for a reality TV show.

Also, I saw a comment that ballroom dance shows have generally lower ratings. I tend to believe it is the opposite case but that is probably because I'm biased as I love ballroom dancing so much.

Are we that isolated a subculture that we don't understand why the general viewing public won't watch these shows? What can we do as a community to bring ballroom dancing in the mainstream and back on television? Can we raise the funds to produce the shows? Can we get corporations to help underwrite them?

I realize that funding was probably an issue after 9/11 but the economy has picked up [depending in which industry you work], and corporations should have money to donate.

I'm sure this topic has been discussed and debated before I joined Dance Forums but I like some current opinions.

Thanks for reading, :)
Carlton [cy_phi]

[Laura]

Also, I saw a comment that ballroom dance shows have generally lower ratings. I tend to believe it is the opposite case but that is probably because I'm biased as I love ballroom dancing so much.

You can believe what you like but the numbers didn't lie. Back when dancesport was on NBC, A&E, and Bravo, it couldn't get high enough ratings to interest advertisers and sponsors to continue making new shows for broadcast. That said, there's no reason why -- given the time and money to boostrap such a project -- someone couldn't try again. After all, PBS's "Championship Ballroom Dancing" from the Ohio Star Ball was quite highly rated on that network. So there's that toehold to fall back on, for instance.

Are we that isolated a subculture that we don't understand why the general viewing public won't watch these shows?

I think we have some idea, but with the proliferation of cable channels over the past few years there's no reason why we couldn't find the right niche (i.e., the right cable channel) to show ballroom dancing -- again, given the money to bootstrap such a project.

What can we do as a community to bring ballroom dancing in the mainstream and back on television? Can we raise the funds to produce the shows? Can we get corporations to help underwrite them?

Excellent ideas. I have no idea how to do this, but obviously it would take someone with industry contacts and a lot of drive and energy.

corporations should have money to donate.

I've been trying to raise money to fund dance scholarship awards at our upcoming dance competitions, and I keep meeting up with the statement "we do not give money to sporting events." Of course, this is not true of every corporation on the planet, just the few in my area of the US that I've researched. But it does bring up a question: would it be easier to get funding presenting it as a sporting event or as an artistic event? We all know that dancesport is both, but it might help to figure out which to emphasize when trying to get sponsorship money. By the way if anyone is considering getting money from USABDA, I sincerely doubt they have much to spare these days for such endeavors.

I hate to be a downer here, but Peter Pover worked very hard on this for a number of years in conjunction with IMG, which is the firm responsible for getting figure skating so much exposure. Figure skating's ratings have dropped way off, though, to the point where ABC will not be showing all the Grand Prix events on their main broadcast network next year. Rather, they will be shown in ESPN and ESPN2. Mr. Pover's efforts got dancesport the exposure it did, but the ratings never took off and the TV industry likes to back proven winners. The track record from the previous try does not show that dancesport is a winner for American TV, so some new angles will have to be developed and tried in order for it to be different from before so that some network will take a chance on it. A lot of creativity is needed to work out what to do -- it will be a huge challenge, but of course with the possible payoff of bringing dancesport back to TV.

Good luck in your endeavors! I'm looking forward to hearing what ideas other people have, and seeing where this conversation goes!

[Chris Stratton]

Having ballroom on TV would be nice, but I'm not sure it's worth the price that might be paid (arguably already is being payed, in futile hope of someday attracting TV cameras) of putting showmanship over good dancing. Today competitors are already sacrificing basic principles in order to show off for ballroom-aware audiences, think what it will be like when they are seeking ratings from ballroom-ignorant TV viewers?

If ballroom is going to be on TV, I think it should be either in a fairly strictly documentary context, or as a purely made-for-TV spectacle that the ballroom community can clearly seperate from what we do for internal consumption.

[Laura]

If ballroom is going to be on TV, I think it should be...as a purely made-for-TV spectacle

Which brings us back to getting "Strictly Come Dancing" on to American TV! :D :) (Crossing fingers & hoping that BBC America and/or The Learning Channel comes through for us.)

[Chris Stratton]

... so that we can ignore it, or laugh at all the basic errors

[Laura]

Well, it might get some non-dancers interested in dancing! If people saw other non-dancers making the jump and enjoying it and looking good (to their untrained eyes), then maybe they'll think that it's something actually doable and enjoyable and fun. Ya gotta start somewhere....

[Chris Stratton]

Absolutely true - exposure is good. I just think it's better if semi-serious participants in the activity can cleary differentiate between the TV adapations and what they should actually be trying to do themselves.

[Phil Owl]

Well, it might get some non-dancers interested in dancing! If people saw other non-dancers making the jump and enjoying it and looking good (to their untrained eyes), then maybe they'll think that it's something actually doable and enjoyable and fun. Ya gotta start somewhere....

How right you are Laura!! It was repeated exposure to the original 70's-80's Dance Fever that got me started.

[DancingMommy]

I happen to know that public access is about $200/hour for airtime depending on the market. Perhaps a dance infomercial would be a better sell? Like ET (entertainment tonight)?

My dad is a video producer and he would love to be able to do stuff like this. Maybe we need to get the "DF Consortium" together to create something..... It isb't expensive to air it if you pick the right time.

[Pacion]

It isb't expensive to air it if you pick the right time.

I thought 'peak times' were the expensive times and the times very late at night, when most people except key workers and members of the DF Insomnics R Us Club are asleep :lol:

In the thread on the article in the Articles section about two guys dancing together at the MIT competition, it said that women outnumber guys by 3:1? I think someone also said previously here: if dancing had more men in it, you would bet there would be more programmes on television. :?

Both snooker and darts get a lot of airplay :roll: :?

[cy_phi]

It isb't expensive to air it if you pick the right time.

I thought 'peak times' were the expensive times and the times very late at night, when most people except key workers and members of the DF Insomnics R Us Club are asleep :lol:

In the thread on the article in the Articles section about two guys dancing together at the MIT competition, it said that women outnumber guys by 3:1? I think someone also said previously here: if dancing had more men in it, you would bet there would be more programmes on television. :?

Both snooker and darts get a lot of airplay :roll: :?


Dancing Mommy, I believe what you are referring to is syndicated TV. Much like how Star Trek: The Next Generation, Baywatch [and ET] were programmed and sold to TV stations. Public access would be good but I think Dancesport is already ingrained in some TV viewers minds watching it on PBS, and A&E. Dancesport just has to be revived, and how we do that I don't know...

One thing I do know is if the sports channels like ESPN and Fox Sports air content like cheerleading contests, aerobics beauty pageants, and best of breed [dogs] shows, then there's a place for Dancesport. :o

Pacion, I'm not sure about the exact ratio of women to men, but it is certainly the case that women outnumber the men who are interested in Dancesport. I would tend to think that since the ratio is to the men's favor, then more men would be interested in dancing. However, it really isn't the case. What is it like in the UK?

[Pacion]

Pacion, I'm not sure about the exact ratio of women to men, but it is certainly the case that women outnumber the men who are interested in Dancesport. I would tend to think that since the ratio is to the men's favor, then more men would be interested in dancing. However, it really isn't the case. What is it like in the UK?

:nope: their self consciousness it greater than their desire to meet women :wink: As a whole, I think women outnumber the men. Sometimes at salsa classes though, we might get lucky and there are more men than women :banana:

[cy_phi]

Pacion, I'm not sure about the exact ratio of women to men, but it is certainly the case that women outnumber the men who are interested in Dancesport. I would tend to think that since the ratio is to the men's favor, then more men would be interested in dancing. However, it really isn't the case. What is it like in the UK?

:nope: their self consciousness it greater than their desire to meet women :wink: As a whole, I think women outnumber the men. Sometimes at salsa classes though, we might get lucky and there are more men than women :banana:

Oh yeah, now I remember...being self-conscious in meeting women. :lol: An awful condition that some guys find difficult to get over from their adolescence. If they only knew... :) More women for me!

[DancingMommy]

The idea of doing a "newsmagazine" style show is not a bad one actually. It's pretty good if I do say so... Ishould have thought of that... Wait a minute, I did! 8)

The audience you want to target to get interested in dancing are young(er) folks, right? College age or just starting out in a career? Getting career training?

Well, late late night programing is uber cheap and effective. Most of the infomercials on then get spectacular results! BTDT. Burned the T-Shirt.

Here's my thought...

Here at DF, we have a great range of styles of dancing, locations and venues and personalities. If we could get sponsorship (maybe from a studio or three) to put up the video crew and pay travel expenses, I bet we could get a show produced... Much like Antiques Roadshow. A grassroots effort is all it takes. If we get a pilot and one season's worth of shows done (13 episodes) I know people who have the clout to put this in front of the right people to get it on the air.

Low budget does NOT have tomean low quality. I've been thinking about doing a show like this for about 8 years now. It's definitely do-able. :)

[SDsalsaguy]

Count me in on any way I could help! :D

[cy_phi]

The idea of doing a "newsmagazine" style show is not a bad one actually. It's pretty good if I do say so... Ishould have thought of that... Wait a minute, I did! 8)

The audience you want to target to get interested in dancing are young(er) folks, right? College age or just starting out in a career? Getting career training?

Well, late late night programing is uber cheap and effective. Most of the infomercials on then get spectacular results! BTDT. Burned the T-Shirt.

Here's my thought...

Here at DF, we have a great range of styles of dancing, locations and venues and personalities. If we could get sponsorship (maybe from a studio or three) to put up the video crew and pay travel expenses, I bet we could get a show produced... Much like Antiques Roadshow. A grassroots effort is all it takes. If we get a pilot and one season's worth of shows done (13 episodes) I know people who have the clout to put this in front of the right people to get it on the air.

Low budget does NOT have tomean low quality. I've been thinking about doing a show like this for about 8 years now. It's definitely do-able. :)


Well, for a target audience, perhaps a focus on youth would do well to bring Dancesport into the mainstream. "This is not your grandparents' dancing." :)

Do you think the folks at Dancebeat [http://www.dancebeat.com/] would want to bring their publication to TV and make it a newsmagazine style show? The support is there from the dancing community so it doesn't necessarily have to be a grassroots campaign. Anybody know the publishers?

[SDsalsaguy]

Whether they'd be interested or not I have no idea, but yes, I know the Dancebeat guys fairly well (they regulalry use my photos from the comps I make it to).

[cy_phi]

Whether they'd be interested or not I have no idea, but yes, I know the Dancebeat guys fairly well (they regulalry use my photos from the comps I make it to).

Well, I guess we'll have to come up with an action plan to get this project underway. If nothing comes of it, then at least we did something. :)

[DancingMommy]

You were the first person I thought of. Perhaps if we did a documentary? Hmmmmm Just ideas floating around....

It costsoa bout a grand a day to shoot a show like this - assuming it's all on location and no actors getting paid. Maybe we could get comp organizers to subsidize this a bit? What do you think?

[pygmalion]

I missed most of this thread and haven't had a chance to read through the whole thing, but I'll respond fully when I do.

In the meantime, one comment. I think one reason ballroom dance isn't on TV is not just that people don't watch. It's that people took it for granted for years. I've lost count of how many people from all walks of life have said to me, "Oh yeah! I used to watch ballroom on TV all the time! I wonder why it doesn't come on anymore?" I don't want to quote Richard Nixon, but I suspect that there's at least a silent plurality of people out there who were watching. They just weren't getting counted. Now that it's gone, those people aren't motivated to get dance back on TV. But, if it were there, they'd watch.

[pygmalion]

Did anyone see this one-hour pledge special on PBS? It was produced and is supposed to have aired on Connecticut Public Television in the US during the December, 2004, membership/pledge drive.

PROGRAM DESCRIPTION:

In BALLROOM DANCING BASICS, former
U.S. professional dance champions Tony
Meredith and Melanie LaPatin teach a
studio audience how to perform several
simple dance patterns (such as the Box
Step, Turning Box Step, Zig-Zag Rock,
Hesitation Step, Fifth Position Break, Under
Arm Turn and Dip) and show how these
steps enable couples to perform different
dances like the Waltz, Foxtrot, Rumba,
Samba, Merengue and Night Club Sway.
Tony and Melanie are competitors, judges,
coaches and dance teachers. Familiar to
public television audiences through their
performances for 13 years on
Championship Ballroom Dancing, they have
become known as “America’s best-loved
couple” in the dance world.


And, while we're on the subject, what do you think of the idea of a one-hour instructional video airing on TV as a way to popularize ballroom dance?

(Source: aptonline.org/catalog)

[Chris Stratton]

I saw most of it last fall. I think you would have to have taped it (so you can rewind) to actually learn to dance from it.

Which raises the question: perhaps rather than getting things on TV, it would be better to try to get sponsorship to run ballroom programs on the net - both instructional and competition - where people could watch at their own pace and convenience.

I wonder if there is a balance of putting just enough ads into a competition video to pay for the bandwidth and production costs, but not so many that people would start editing them out?

[pygmalion]

I missed it completely. I have this thing about avoiding PBS pledge week (seems like a month) altogether, if I can. :?

Although, from the fine print on that website, it looks like PBS affiliates who bought the rights can show it unlimited times through 2007. So maybe it'll pop up again. Sadly, probably during pledge week again. :?

I wonder about the online format. That approach seems to have promise. Of course, people'd have to go looking for programming via google or some other search engine, unless... :? If a program is on television often enough, there's a good possibility someone might happen on it by accident. :) I wonder if it's possible to do both approaches with the same programming, kinda like the AOL/ABC News on demand, which broadcasts real ABC news footage via the web on demand. Hmm. 8)

[wooh]

My tivo picked up that ABC will be showing "International Dancesport" on Monday 4/18. Is there maybe hope?

[Ashley]

Wooh-
I tried looking for a schedule online at abc.com. I don't know what else "International Dancesport" could be, so keep us updated!

[Laura]

My tivo picked up that ABC will be showing "International Dancesport" on Monday 4/18. Is there maybe hope?

At what time is it showing? What time zone are you in? Do you get the ABC satellite feeds from the network or just your local affiliate? I have TiVo with DirectTV in San Francisco and there is nothing showing for 4/18 with "Dancesport" in the title or description.

Thanks for any additional information!

[wooh]

Oops, never mind. I misread the station. It's going to be on PBS. But hey, it's still exciting for me, haven't seen ballroom on tv in ages.

[Laura]

Oh damn. That explains why I'm not getting it on my TiVo -- not all the PBS stations run the same shows at the same times, or even at all. I get 5 PBS stations locally and none of them have it :( :(

[DancingMommy]

Anyone in Atlanta can you TAPE THIS PLEASE???? OR TiVo it?

International DanceSport World Championships
World Latin Championship
Monday, April 18, 10:00pm
CHANNEL 18 (GPB/Georgia Public Broadcasting)
E-mail reminder

No program description available

CC, Stereo TVG

[pygmalion]

I looked on both the PBS stations I have access to, DM. No luck. :(

[DancingMommy]

If DanceMentor could tape this it would be great. Hint.. Hint....

[Chris Stratton]

Anyone in Milwaukee?

International Dancesport Championships "Latin Championship" 00:52 #101 APT
Art, entertainment, and sport combine to create DanceSport--a flamboyant spectacle which gathers international momentum, with competitors from all over the world challenging each other for prestigious titles in the three main disciplines: Latin, Standard, and World Ten. This series highlights the championship nights of competition in the three major disciplines. Each program includes illuminating features giving insight into the background of the sport, and a candid look at the dancers. The Standard competitions are comprised of the Waltz, Slow Foxtrot, Tango, Viennese Waltz and Quickstep; the Latin competitions feature the Cha-Cha, Samba, Rumba, Paso Doble, and Jive; and the World Ten features all 10 dances. First of 3 programs features the IDSF championship, which was filmed in Leipzig, Germany, on October 9 of 2004. The competition is comprised of the Cha-Cha, Samba, Rumba, Paso Doble, and Jive. [TVG]

[Chris Stratton]

A new TV reality series, "Ballroom Boot Camp", will be introduced on The Learning Channel (TLC) later this year. The program takes average people off the street and, with the help of some experienced dance instructors, turns them into competitive novice level dancers. These new dancers will compete against each other as their 'Boot Camp' course progresses.

The series is produced by Dean Ollins, of 'Original Productions', who will be making the series for TLC. The first 4 programs in the series will be made during the competitive pro-am events at Yankee Classic this year - should be fun and interesting for all!

Original Productions creates many other shows, such as Monster Garage, Monster House, Biker Build Off and Plastic Surgery to name a few.


And next up: "Monster Ballgown"

[pygmalion]

*giggle* I've seen a few. (Ask Laura about the rainbow Latin dress. :wink: :lol: )

Where'd you get the blurb? Is that coming up in the 2005/2006 season?

[Joe]

And next up: "Monster Ballgown"
As long as I can slap a Chevy small-block with a hot cam in that puppy.

[Chris Stratton]

Well I want to see the tattoo-covered biker dudes wrestling with yards and yards of pink chiffon.

[DancingMommy]

I'd give money to see Jessse James IN a ballgown....

[pygmalion]

What is this thread about? :roll: :lol: And is that discover channel blurb about a show that's still upcoming?

(I guess I could google it ... :roll: )