Less than an OK dance...

[vey]

Only once in a while, when multiple factors coincide, I can get that DANCE, you know, the one that makes you feel like you are floating in the air and are transcending yourself. Sensations that it creates make you coming night in and night out, in spite of sleep deprivation and sore feet, hoping to get another one.
The reality of salsa for me is that THE DANCE happens only once in a blue moon.

I’m curious how you, my fellow salseros, deal with less than OK dances (e.g., when you have to watch out so your partner won’t injure you, when your partner constantly leading you in other couples, when leader’s signals are systematically not clear, or when you yourself feel off balance or not quite there, etc...)
I get quite a few of these “less than OK dances” and would like to learn how handle them better and get some satisfaction from them ...

[ratherbdancing]

I get quite a few of these “less than OK dances” and would like to learn how handle them better and get some satisfaction from them ...

Whenever I get those "less than ok dances" I am typically dancing with a beginner, and I get the satisfaction of knowing that I get to help them with their dancing. Or in other cases, there are some guys that women dont like to dance with because of a jerky lead etc. or no ligitimate reason whatsoever. I always feel bad for them so I dance with them and I get the satisfaction of knowing that it is encouraging for them to get to dance because everyone should be allowed the pleasure of dancing.
*** I feel that this applys to all ballroom dancing and not just Salsa :)

[Sagitta]

Nice avatar vey! I guess it depends what you bring to each dance. I come to each dance open-minded. Trying to quickly establish connection, what kind of leads the follow requires etc. As a leader I do not come to a dance with a preconceived notion of how I'm going to dance as I know that it is different with different people. This way as I get better my dances are getting better and better. Even if I don't achieve that feeling there are more and more dances where I'm closer. This is my way of dealing with it.

I find that when I dance with some people they come expecting a certain style or way of dancing and do not attempt to accommodate me, or establish a connection. (Now when I talk of connection, note that I'm not referring to simply following leads well.) This may sound evil, but to me those are the dances when I may do more experimentation, conciously work on a particular aspect of my dancing....

[ratherbdancing]

conciously work on a particular aspect of my dancing....
I do that too- especially in group classes where I already know everything that is being taught, and I'm only taking it because for some crazy reason there are more guys then girls :D. I focus on my posture or just completing movements so that I take something away from the class/ dance.

[tj]

Hmm... a couple of things come to mind...

First, you've likely made an inexperienced dancer very happy to have danced with you, vey. He probably is intimidated to dance with a more experienced dancer, and is grateful that you gave a dance. Just don't rub it in his face that it's a mercy dance. I think mercy dances raise the general level of goodwill around the scene.

Second, without mediocre dances, the truly great ones never would stand out as much. It takes a lot of mediocrity to make the special dances, special.

Oh, and travel a bunch too. Nothing quite as fun as "fresh meat syndrome" when it clicks.

[vey]

Whenever I get those "less than ok dances" I am typically dancing with a beginner, and I get the satisfaction of knowing that I get to help them with their dancing.

I know what you mean, Ratherbdancing, and beginners who classify themselves as ones are a pretty good deal because they are usually careful, on a humble side and are willing to learn.
The worst deal, IMHO, is a dancer who percieves him/herself as being experienced but has some very bad dancing habits that put his/her partner and people around in danger. And, although I consider a healthy degree of compensation to be a legitimate part of adjusting to your partner's style, compensating for seriuos flaws makes it difficult for me to enjoy a dance.

[vey]

Nice avatar vey!
Thanks Sagitta!

This may sound evil, but to me those are the dances when I may do more experimentation, conciously work on a particular aspect of my dancing....

This doesn't sound evil at all! I think I should do it more.


Second, without mediocre dances, the truly great ones never would stand out as much. It takes a lot of mediocrity to make the special dances, special.


Wow, tj, what an interesting angle!

[salsachinita]

(e.g., when you have to watch out so your partner won’t injure you, when your partner constantly leading you in other couples, when leader’s signals are systematically not clear, or when you yourself feel off balance or not quite there, etc...)
I get quite a few of these “less than OK dances...

Ooooooh, I feel you on that one, sista!

Recently I've had a run with these (hence my rant on 'Bad Etiquette' :( ). Usually I would play traffic cop since the boys won't :roll: .....if they get too dangerous I would try & avoid them (= avoid injuries).

Usually I would find at least one friend there to dance (& get my fix, if not a magical number) with for the night.

As TJ, I'm also a great believer in goodwills achieved by mercy/out-of-comfort-zone dances. I know for a fact that I have recieved them (I'm sure I still do :oops: ), so it's only fair that I do my share too (ok, but not to a point where we totally sacrifice our own enjoyments either!).

Mediocre dances of today might turn out to be THAT dance in the near future. Thoes who we help (or who helped us) get there will remember this 8) .

[Sagitta]

So true SC. I know people whom I danced with when they started out, or when they weren't known, and I'm assured of dances with them every night now that they are ahead of me, way ahead of me. :oops:

[Sagitta]

Oh. I just thought of something else. This lady told me that she found that many people she danced with would break when there was a break with the muisc and then restart dancing not taking that break into account. So a break of two beats meant they started dancing on3, when they were dancing on1. I offered to let her lead so she could keep on1 or on3 or on2 for the entire song! :wink: She generously declined and said that she figured that since we had so much to do as leaders she guessed that she could follow.

[youngsta]

As long as I don't string to many really bad ones in a row I'm ok with it. Normally I'll intersperse women I've never danced with before with my regular partners. That way at least I know I'll have some good dances no matter what the 'unknown' brings :lol: Now THE DANCE only happens once, maybe twice a month for me--and it usually comes from an unexpected source. So I just enjoy the good, or the ok, or the slightly uncomfortable knowing buried in their somewhere when least expected is THE DANCE!!

[vey]

THANK YOU GUYS! I really needed to hear your take on this...


Mediocre dances of today might turn out to be THAT dance in the near future. Thoes who we help (or who helped us) get there will remember this 8) .

That is so true, SC. Although I consider myself a beginner, I feel like a proud mama when one of "struggling beginners" surprises me with a solid lead a couple of month after our less than OK dance :!: :D :D :D

[danceguy]

Some great advice here. :)

I avoid calling any dance a "mercy dance." I will be honest in stating that some nights I really want to dance with a Salsera who has some experience, and not a total beginner. But along those lines, I always consider dancing with a beginner "spreading the love" because we're welcoming them to a wonderful new way of life. If we want Salsa to grow in our area (and we need more ladies where I live!) we have to provide a safe and fun environment for them.

I can't control what others do, but I can control what I do. So even if a dance is going horribly (and believe me, I've had some that left me checking to make sure all my body parts were still attached), I always smile and thank the lady. I remember all those who were kind enough to dance with me when I started out, and their kindess is what kept me coming back.

If we are ever in a mood where we don't want to dance with a beginners....then we shouldn't, plain and simple. I know when I ask a more advanced dancer and she sighs and goes "sure, why not,"...all of that wonderful, loving energy (the stuff Boriken talks about) is tainted from the get-go. At this point, I'd rather that the lady said no and held her boundaries firm. I'd rather be turned down than have to dance with a grump-frump Salsera any day of the week! :oops: :roll: :?

Like youngsta mentioned..."the dance" can come from just about anyone. I know that my best dances are always with strangers...since we have such a small number of ladies in my area I've gotten to know them all pretty well. But that's one good reason for me to start branching out. 8)

Best,

SG

[MacMoto]

As long as I don't string to many really bad ones in a row I'm ok with it. Normally I'll intersperse women I've never danced with before with my regular partners.
Same here. When I've had a good dance with a favourite leader, I often ask either a beginner, a new face or "a challenge" (:lol: you know... not a beginner but someone who you haven't been able to have an OK dance with before) to dance. I've had a good fix, so I'd feel less frustrated even if the dance doesn't go well. After a run of mediocre and bad dances though, I start stalking my favourite leaders! :lol:

Now THE DANCE only happens once, maybe twice a month for me--and it usually comes from an unexpected source. So I just enjoy the good, or the ok, or the slightly uncomfortable knowing buried in their somewhere when least expected is THE DANCE!!
Again, same here. Many of my most memorable dances have been with complete strangers, so I always try to dance with someone I haven't seen or danced before.

[squirrel]

hmmm... there's a shortage of good leaders in my area... gee... it's actually a shortage of leaders in my area... :)
I dance with anyone, if they invite me. I invite only guys I really like to dance with... I am a teacher and therefore I don't get asked a lot :cry: ... it is sad, 'cause sometimes I get bored... but I have to deal with it...
sometimes I dance with guys who are a bore... and it's not their level... it's just that they have no idea how to make me feel good... or maybe we just don't match... I tend to avoid them...

[tj]

You know, what I find interesting about this thread is how the perspective changes depending on the level of the dancer. When I first read this thread, I was assuming that vey was an Advanced salsera wondering where her “champion” dancer is (in other words, how a salsera’s gotta kiss a lot of frogs to find her prince, lol).

But for a novice/beginner, I think it’s quite different. I’d say the easiest way is for one to get familiar/acquainted with a more experienced dancer who is able to put you at ease and into your comfort zone. It’s not that hard to meet someone like this, and then keep an eye out for your favorites. So I think that’s the easiest way to get more consistency in one’s dances.

Another helpful thing would be to describe what makes a “perfect dance” for you. This varies from person to person, obviously.

[vey]

I was assuming that vey was an Advanced salsera wondering where her “champion” dancer is (in other words, how a salsera’s gotta kiss a lot of frogs to find her prince, lol).


Well, I've been learning/dancing salsa for about year now and I have prior dance experience, so majority of my dancemates classify me as an Intermediate-Advanced salsera, it's just I use different criteria for myself than most people would....

And yes, there are several leaders, dancing with whom would guarantee me at least a very good dance but there're really too few of them and they're sought after... :cry:

[tj]

Well, I've been learning/dancing salsa for about year now and I have prior dance experience, so majority of my dancemates classify me as an Intermediate-Advanced salsera, it's just I use different criteria for myself than most people would....

And yes, there are several leaders, dancing with whom would guarantee me at least a very good dance but there're really too few of them and they're sought after... :cry:

Well, I had a good friend whose teacher used to say something to the effect of "nurturing your leaders while they're still learning and they'll remember you when they are in demand".

[youngsta]

Word! What TJ said :D

[tj]

Word! What TJ said :D

Where ya been, R? We needed you around last week when a salsera was visiting Denver. She sent you and email...

[salsachinita]

"nurturing your leaders while they're still learning and they'll remember you when they are in demand".

Hence I spend 20-50% of my time working on my hand-picked protegees. One of them is now teaching & in great demand 8) .

Random thought: could the above statement apply to followers too :? ?

What do you think?

[danceguy]

That's very sweet Salsachinita! :P

Hmm, I think the same definitely applies to followers...where I go dancing the newcomer follows get so much attention they never sit down. In a short amount of time they will be in high demand and become great dancers. One of my fav Salseras to dance with is like that now...she started after me and we were at about the same level. Now you have to stand in line to dance with her!

I guess that's what happens when there's too many leaders in a small dance community. Maybe I should just learn to follow. :roll: :wink:

SG

[youngsta]

Word! What TJ said :D

Where ya been, R? We needed you around last week when a salsera was visiting Denver. She sent you and email...
Yeah, I replied to her...a bit after the fact. :oops: I've been busy with Grad school! :headwall:

[Vin]

I have been thinking about thia in the back of my mind for a while now and this is what I have been doing.
When I have a less than stellar connection with someone I try and do whatever it takes to improve that connection FROM HER PROSPECTIVE. If we are on a different rhythm I hold myself back and try and find the beat she is on. If she can't follow certain patterns I try and stick to those that she knows.
Thinking about this makes me wonder though, in general the less advanced dancer enjoys the dance much more than the more advanced dancer. I wonder who out of my favorite dance partners dreads dancing with me :cry: .

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

Well, I had a good friend whose teacher used to say something to the effect of "nurturing your leaders while they're still learning and they'll remember you when they are in demand".

Hmm... How come this never happened to me when I was a struggling beginner? :shock:

I totally agree with this point of view however this very rarely occurs on the social dance floor... I also beleive that followers are "nurtured" far more than the leaders. :cry:

[squirrel]

Especially if the followers are good-looking, MLS... :lol: :lol: :lol:

[MacMoto]

I wonder who out of my favorite dance partners dreads dancing with me :cry: .
I know what you mean. I know that some of my favourite leaders genuinely like dancing with me (because they've told me so), but I do wonder how many of the others are just too polite to say no to me... :?

Note to self: Tell the guys I enjoy dancing with that I enjoy dancing with them.

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

Note to self: Tell the guys I enjoy dancing with that I enjoy dancing with them.

Yeah, you should.

[Vin]

Definitely the right thing to do.

[etchuck]

Well, I had a good friend whose teacher used to say something to the effect of "nurturing your leaders while they're still learning and they'll remember you when they are in demand".

Hmm... How come this never happened to me when I was a struggling beginner? :shock:

I totally agree with this point of view however this very rarely occurs on the social dance floor... I also believe that followers are "nurtured" far more than the leaders. :cry:

Well, that's at least one of the reasons I sit out a lot. I'm seeing exactly how much in demand I am. I'm always in need of a little nurturing. ;)

[danceguy]

What a ham. :D

SG