The Dark Side of Dancing?

[SDsalsaguy]

Ok, this one may stir up some controversy, but here it goes anyway…

Back in early May I sent the following e-mail to someone here in town. I normally would not post such a thing publicly but apparently her s.o. (in reference to whom I was making my comments) happened to see the e-mail, balled her out for it, and now won’t “let” her dance with me. She strikes me as a nice person and was fun to dance with so, of course, I regret that outcome…at the same time, however, I can’t help but think that he has to (at some level?) realize that the apple has to have landed fairly close to the tree for such a strong reaction, no?


Hiya “X”,

Just wanted to make sure I had your e-mail down right.

Are you going to [club] tonight? If so, save me a few dances, ok?

Also, May 9 & 10 are the next weekend I'll be in town...and my last for the summer, so I hope to see you then.

In a totally different vein – I hope I'm not overstepping myself (and if I am please feel free to tell me to shut up and mind my own business) but this has been on my mind: you seem so much happier when I see you out on your own! You obviously love to dance, and no one should prohibit you from that enjoyment or stunt your growth as a dancer. More specifically, dancing with different people is part of the learning process and even more important for a follower. Given your genuine enjoyment of dancing, any curtailment of this development is not in your best interest. Maybe even more to the point, you have great timing, nice style, and follow well. Is there room for improvement? Of course…but that’s true for everyone! Criticizing you is not called for in any circumstance; dancing is supposed to be fun – if its not, then what’s the point? And this is true regarding both the physical and psychological dynamics of dancing. Tugs, yanks, and “bruises” to either should never come form your partner – in dance as in life.

I don’t mean to interfere in what’s none of my business, but I spend a lot of time around and interviewing dance partners and couples (from casual social dancers up through world champions) so such dynamics are very salient to me.

Again, I apologize if this was out of line.

Just take care of yourself, ok?

–Jonathan

[salsarhythms]

I don't know what it is, but SD and I have
been writing about the same things lately!!

I just finished publishing to my newsletter an
article, I will provide the link here because the
article that I wrote has a LOT to do with what
SD is pointing out here...

http://www.salsa-rhythms.com/nl/issue14.htm

Click on the link above for the latest newsletter
I sent out to my subscribers and read the article
that deals with "Arguing on the Dance floor".

[msc]

I hear you, SdSalsa. I've seen that happen on the pro competitive level too, where the guy just snipes at the woman like a total putz (and the woman is often about 10x more talented than the guy.)

[Danish Guy]

Don’t know how the lady X, and this O.D. is related, maybe there could be something there?

Is it a husband or family kind of relation?

When I was a big kid, my parents got this fine idea, that dancing with my sister was a fine solution. She missed a tall partner, and I was looking for a new girl, but didn’t want to rush to competitions all the time. That solution killed my mode for dancing for over 10 years. :(

Trying a 10-lesson course with my wife would have ended in a divorce, if we had continued to the next level. But I knew when to quit. (Well, it ended in divorce anyway, but some years later)
I think it have something to do with the tolerance levels; combined with all the unfinished business you sometimes are carrying with you to the dance. (Besides I knew the basics of waltz, and the rhythm, but how could I explain that, without she felt it like a personal attack).

The Salsa thing with the changing partners seems to be working fine. Couples are at the same training, but make the errors with other people, so it is much easier to laugh at the bummers, and get them corrected. And much easier to get the stuff corrected, because the focus is on the dance and your partner. You get used to dancing with others, and with salsa you can go out dancing. You don’t have to settle with the classes in school and the family soup, steak and ice parties. “If my partner will learn the salsa, I’m not the one going to teach him”, is a statement I have heard more than once.

Of course, its much easier to have fun, if you are out dancing alone, without an off level boy or girlfriend. You don’t have bad conscience because your partner don’t dance as much as you do, don’t get jealous, don’t think you are showing of or flirting too much, or maybe even trying to hunt something better down. Besides, you don’t get that many dances, if you are sitting holding hands.

Maybe he thinks you are trying to score, or run of with his talented dancing partner?

Nice comments and love letters have a tense to be stored away, and then read by other persons then they where attended for. Maybe some misunderstandings could be avoided, by communicating voice only in another case like this.

The prohibitions dancing with you, wont solve anything. Maybe it will speed things up a little, so she will find a new partner for the dance/real life. Maybe she will cut down, or stop dancing for a period, before, hopefully start up again later with new energy. Or maybe she will dance with you anyway.

[Danish Guy]

I've seen that happen on the pro competitive level too, where the guy just snipes at the woman like a total putz (and the woman is often about 10x more talented than the guy.)

Yes, sadly enough, many pro dancers end up like grumpy old married couples. :( :( :(

[Phil Owl]

TURRRNNNNN TOOOOO THEEEE DAAAARRRRRK SSSSSIIIIIIIIIDE!!

TURRRNNNNN TOOOOO THEEEE DAAAARRRRRK SSSSSIIIIIIIIIDE!!

:D :twisted:

Just kidding

In all seriousness, it is disturbing to me that with something like dancing which is supposed to be fun, some folks get sooooo uptight and even nasty with one another over it.

For me, if my partner misss a lead or turn or whatever, I've made up my mind to just laugh it off and keep going. If you set your mind to put your partner at ease, they will actually be motivated to improve and try harder I've found.

[SDsalsaguy]

I hear you, SdSalsa. I've seen that happen on the pro competitive level too, where the guy just snipes at the woman like a total putz (and the woman is often about 10x more talented than the guy.)
Yup, certainly isn't limmited...which, of course, highlights what a problem this is...

[SDsalsaguy]

I don't know what it is, but SD and I have
been writing about the same things lately!! Why did you have to go and point that out? Now we can't use it as a secret cover to gain world domination!

Seriously though, these interrelated topics reminded me of an older, similar thread that some of the newer members might want to take a look at: What's with the agression? (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=274)

[DanceMentor]

What you should do is 'accidentally' bump them (lightly), and then turn and say, "You run into the nicest people!" (with the most pleasant sounding voice possible) :lol:

There are things that sometimes outsiders might not understand like maybe this person had an affair and now the partner is extremely watchful or maybe they got injured when they danced with someone else and now they are extremely paranoid or some drunken guy asked her to dance one time and started making sexual advances and now she's paranoid about this.

It may just be an unfortunate situation that nobody is going to understand very well, but there may be some reasonable logic that will never be revealed to you.

[SDsalsaguy]

It may just be an unfortunate situation that nobody is going to understand very well, but there may be some reasonable logic that will never be revealed to you. Hmm. Well, if you consider overblown jealousy reasonable logic, then I guess so... :lol:

Honestly though, I do feel sorry for people such as this, as such jealousy earmarks underlying insecurities... :cry:

[Vin]

There is another side to this though right. I was dating a girl who just didn't get into dancing. I saw that if we stayed together much longer I might have ended up just being completely frustrated going out with her because she would get upset when I would dance with other women(Not openly mind you, she would always have some other reason to explain why she was upset but it was really just a cover) and she didn't put any effort into learning. We ended up breaking up over it. I felt bad seeing the ugly side of myself but I caught myself and broke it off before I got ugly with her.

[SDsalsaguy]

There is another side to this though right. I was dating a girl who just didn't get into dancing. I saw that if we stayed together much longer I might have ended up just being completely frustrated going out with her because she would get upset when I would dance with other women(Not openly mind you, she would always have some other reason to explain why she was upset but it was really just a cover) and she didn't put any effort into learning. We ended up breaking up over it. I felt bad seeing the ugly side of myself but I caught myself and broke it off before I got ugly with her.

Vin....while what you're talking about is a different scenario and dynamic, it definitely is (unfortunately) another element of the dark side of dancing. I know several dancers, who won't date non-dancers, precisely in order to avoid exactly this type of problem. Yet by the same token only dating dancers isn't prohibitive of the situation I recounted above...

Oh well, as Danish Guy says..."may the dance be with you..."

[Danish Guy]

We ended up breaking up over it. I felt bad seeing the ugly side of myself but I caught myself and broke it off before I got ugly with her.
Yes, there are times in life where you must realise you can't have everything, and the chose accordingly. :(
Looks like you made that choice before you ended like at bitter man in the armchair. :wink:


Oh well, as Danish Guy says..."may the dance be with you..."
WOW
My punch line quoted by SD.:shock: :shock: :shock:

[SDsalsaguy]

WOW
My punch line quoted by SD.:shock: :shock: :shock:

:lol: :lol: :lol: That made me laugh...who am I after all? Just one more salsaholic...

[Danish Guy]

:lol: :lol: :lol: That made me laugh...who am I after all? Just one more salsaholic...

Laughing is good for the health :D :D :D

Anyway, you are an experienced salsaholic, who made a new salsaholic feel welcome.

And no, I’m not looking for a cure. :wink:

[Dreamer]

It can be frustrating if there are outside tensions infringing on your dance relationship. I have an ongoing problem with my boyfriend who got a dance partner after we met, whilst at the same time, his intention was to 'bring me on' so we can dance together in future (see the 'Partner.. or Partner? (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=430)' discussion thread). Now we've finally started to dance together, I've noticed he can be quite verbally rough if I make beginners mistakes and I have to be quite thick skinned about it and keep going. Added to this, when he criticises, I think about his partner who has been dancing for 4 years, and of course I hurt because I feel I'm being compared to her. I don't let it spoil my determination though because I love dancing and I want to be the best I can be. However, dancing should be fun and I've begun to pull him up short with a few choice words. He lightens up because I don't let him get away with it; just like all relationships, you have to start as you mean to go on!

[SDsalsaguy]

you have to start as you mean to go on! Excellent, excellent point Dreamer – And applicable in so many ways.

Dreamer...as I quoted in my initial post:
Criticizing you is not called for in any circumstance; dancing is supposed to be fun – if its not, then what’s the point? And this is true regarding both the physical and psychological dynamics of dancing. Tugs, yanks, and “bruises” to either should never come form your partner – in dance as in life.

Of course with vastly different levels of experience there is a real and legitimate possibility for frustration on the behalf of the newer dancer…what’s at issue is how one deals with it. Criticizing you, however, seems quite uncalled for as you are trying hard and progressing rapidly. If you were being lazy about it, not willing to put in the work, etc., fine, that’s a different issue but, as it is, you’re doing the most you can with where you’re at now. Basic psychology says that positive feedback (vs. negative) is far more productive in eliciting desired responses. Energy and concentration you could be investing in your dancing is being taken up with building a “thick skin” as you called it and in sticking up for yourself (good for you by the way!). In an ideal partnership though—again, in dance as in life—you shouldn’t need to stick up for yourself with your partner…if you’re really partners then that person should be “sticking up” for you as well.

[SDsalsaguy]

For some excellent reading on some other dynamics that qualify as "The Dark Side of Dancing," check out this article by Terryl Jones: Controversial Moves, Controversial Contests (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=612).