PDA

View Full Version : Evolution of Swing Dancing and Music - a brief overview


d nice
08-13-2003, 03:41 AM
There was a set of name changes as the music and dance evolved... The Lindy Hop, the eight count Charleston/Texas Tommy evolved dance of the 20's was eight counts done in four steps, evolved in the 30's to an eight count basic with 10 steps (the two sets of triples) as the music Hot Jazz went from 2/4 time to Swing in 4/4 time. Less hop more variance in the connection between leveraged tension and compression.

As the dance caught on with "mainstream America" it changed mixing with the various regional styles of "swing" dancing. In the black neighborhoods it varied little in over all dynamic/style more of different flavors of the Lindy Hop rather than styles. Swing became the popular music of it's day.

The biggest change in dance styles was what happened when it was danced by white dancers with little connection to blacks. Ernie Smith actually goes into a bit of detail about this in "Call of the Jitterbug", an excellent documentry BTW. The African rooted aesthetic was replaced with a European one. Moves and movements altered, evolved, and in some cases sanitized. It was still recognizably the same dance, but black dancers in Oakland, CA were more likely to look like those in Harlem than the white dancers who danced across the river in Jersey.

Popular music changed going from 4/4 Swing, in the early to mid 40's to Jump Blues in many parts of the country and the dance of course changed to reflect that. The simpler rhythms and harder hitting drums caused the dance to simplify the footwork, this is where we start to see more and more of the eight count basic being replaced with the truncated footwork in six, believed by some to be based on the Foxtrot, but a decent amount of evidence in fact shows the source to be more likely another jazz dance called the "Jig Walk" which was popular amongst the black communities from Mobile, Alabama to Chicago, Illinois and all along the Eastern Seaboard. This newer form was starting to be consistantly refered to as Jitterbug or Swing rather than Lindy Hop, though New Yorkers refered to it by the name Lindy (the Hop was pretty much dropped from the name at this point).

In the 50's popular music switched again, Rock and Roll and Rhythm & Blues were the order of the day. The dance began to not just evolve but split into two directions. Rock and Roll had a harder driving beat with simple syncopation and almost no swing, and Rhythm & Blues had a softer beat with simple syncopations but with more swing. The result was one dance to R&R music that was very energetic, lots of tricks but little in the way of improvised rhythmic footwork, and another dance to R&B that was was "smoother" with few tricks but more complicated footwork.

This is where the style of swing known as East Coast Swing (danced to R&R) started to gain real popularity and at the same time what are generally thought of as the "smooth" swing styles started in the late 50's (West Coast Swing, Carolina Shag, Hand Dancing, Stepping, Bop, Push, Whip, Imperial, etc.).

The 60's and 70's swing dancing pretty much died in main stream America, going under ground in various locals and regional styles flourished in the nightclubs and bars, while Disco music with the Hustle and solo dancing became the big draws.

The 80's saw a slight upsurge in Swing Dancing, The smooth styles dominated by West Coast Swing gained in popularity, and Lindy Hop started peeking it's head out from the black dominated clubs were younger dancers in the mid twenties were mixing with those in their seventies.

In the early 90's what is most often refered to as Neo-Swing or Retro Swing (a mix of Jump Blues, Swing, with some Bop stylings) spurred a sudden interest in swing dancing. The new style of swing dancing was heavily influenced from the Jitterbug/R&R dancing of the fifties, but with less refinement for the most part, as dancers stole moves off of old video movies, and TV Shows, but the force of the new movement (if a single source can be credited) was inspired by the Thomas Carter movie "Swing Kids". By the time Jon Favreau's "Swingers" came out in 1996 Swing dancing was a counter-culture movement and on its way to being an over exploited media sensation. Dancers were becoming more adept at the various forms of Swing dancing, regular lessons were being offered at clubs, ballrooms, churches, and in living rooms and garages in every major city. Old timers in their eighties were being sought out and revered by Gen X'ers regailing them with tales of life "back in the day" and sharing with them their home movies and favorite steps.

It is important to note that Lindy Hop had not died out. There were still numerous places where the dance structurally remained the same though the aesthetic altered a little as the Jazz music changed from Hot Jazz of the 20's, Swing of the 30's early 40's, Bebop in the mid 40's to mid 50's, and Main Stream and Cool Jazz of the late 50's. In the 60's through 70's various forms of earlier jazz were being revisted as well as the growth of Soul Jazz and the 80's saw the birth of Post Bop. The 90's saw a renewed viability in big swing bands to support themselves and Lindy Hoppers were once again dancing to the sounds of classic Swing. The roots were still strong.

Vince A
08-13-2003, 10:47 AM
Enjoyed reading this very much.

I actually could see each of the dancing styles in my mind as I progressed through your words . . . especially after dancing through some of those eras.

I too . . . went back . . . thanks for taking me there . . . . . . . . .

pygmalion
10-01-2003, 10:48 AM
This was a great summary. Now my question, from the perspective of a notoriously goal-oriented person, is what dances went along with the musical evolution you're talking about? Where do they all fit in? Needless to say, I have an agenda in asking this. I hate ignorance, especially when it's my own, and I'd love to know a little about how to do these dances! I'll probably nevere be a died-in-the wool swing afficionado, because I love other dances too much and refuse to pick. But I don't ever want to have to sit down because I don't know a dance, either. Where's a good place to start?

Vince A
10-01-2003, 12:54 PM
This was a great summary. Now my question, from the perspective of a notoriously goal-oriented person, is what dances went along with the musical evolution you're talking about? Where do they all fit in? Needless to say, I have an agenda in asking this. I hate ignorance, especially when it's my own, and I'd love to know a little about how to do these dances! I'll probably nevere be a died-in-the wool swing afficionado, because I love other dances too much and refuse to pick. But I don't ever want to have to sit down because I don't know a dance, either. Where's a good place to start?
You are starting to think like I have been doing lately. I asked the same question to a couple of Pro dancers. They said to start taking lessons.

I used to compete, and as I responded to you in another topic, for all the wrong reasons. So, until I start competing again (for fun???), will look at other dances to learn. I've started Salsa and AT again. And now I'm trying to hook up with another member of this forum in an attempt to get some private lessons in the Lindy Hop.

I too, am very goal-oriented, and do about nine dances, but now, have the time to learn to do more dances.

Hope this helps and hope that others give you answers!!!!!!!!

SwinginBoo
10-01-2003, 01:19 PM
That was some really great information. You certainly know your stuff.

As an aside...I remember going to Father/Daughter dances with my dad in elementary school. We used to dance ( didn't know it then ) east coast swing to all the fifties rock and roll songs.

I was really able to visualize the evolution of the dances from your post. Thanks a lot. :D

d nice
10-01-2003, 02:34 PM
Specifics girl! ;)

What dance do you want to here about first. Give me some direction. Otherwise I'll ramble on and never get to the point. Dealing with someone touched by senility and a touch of ahlzeimers... hmmm, not the best of mixes.

pygmalion
10-01-2003, 02:41 PM
Senility? Unless your picture is VERY OLD, you're not! :lol: Don't use that as an excuse, mister. Just get some sleep! :lol: :lol: You'd be surprised how much that helps.

Okay, here's a more concise problem statement and question for you. Since joining the forums, I have become aware of a myriad of swing and swing-derived dances that I never knew existed, or, for whatever reason, never appealed to me before. Now, after a month of reading commentary I can barely understand, I'm motivated to start learning some of those swing dances. I plan to take lessons to branch out and am really hungry to know everything I can. Is one swing dance preferable to any of the others as a starting point for study (in terms of commonality of figures or styling, for example)? I have other questions, but I'll start there. :D

SDsalsaguy
10-01-2003, 03:38 PM
Is one swing dance preferable to any of the others as a starting point for study (in terms of commonality of figures or styling, for example)?
This is an excellent question! Knowing this type of information can really be a great short cut to branching out into more and more dance forms. And, following up on this, what forms are the most common today? Always good to have "transportable" material!

d nice
10-01-2003, 04:01 PM
Most transportable? Jitterbug. a six count dominated dance closely related to lindy hop. Danced historically in the late 40's through the sixties with several regional styles of its own.

The best base form? Well I always suggest going to the headwaters. Lindy Hop. Nearly every current swing dance is decsended from or used lindy hop as its inspiration. So many styles and musical variety and the root of so many of the techniques the others use as their definitive base.

I think most of the swing dances are pretty amazing in their own right, and I have been lucky enough to have studied most of them, but Lindy Hop is my favorite because of it flexibility and energy.

SDsalsaguy
10-01-2003, 04:14 PM
Thanks for the information d nice! Just so I understand better though, why isn't Lindy the most transportable if it is the foundation?

d nice
10-01-2003, 05:31 PM
WHen I was saying transportable I was thinking about the most danced version of swing. Definitely Jitterbug. If you are looking at the one which will serve you the best as being able to adapt your own dance to match others... Lindy Hop.

pygmalion
10-01-2003, 05:43 PM
Then I guess Lindy it is, to start. There are a lot more Lindy hoppers around here, so I'll have more places to practice and people to practice with. The mid- to long- term goal is to learn several dances. But you have to start somewhere! :D

Thanks. :D

Vince A
10-01-2003, 05:51 PM
Hey d nice,
I remember hearing in some of my more recent Music Appreciation classes in college (went back to get another degree a few years ago), that some Swing dancing had help evolving from the television dance shows of the time. It seemed that they wanted the dancers to stay perpendicular to the camera, yet parallel with the tv screen of the viewers - in a slot, perhaps? All to make the dancers look better, especially since some of them were stars in their own rights.

I tried to argue this point in class, as I grew up playing bass/and guitar in an all black band, and we played in mostly all black establishments. Back in the late 50's, early 60's, I saw lots of dancers dancing in a slot!

The dancers were great and the music, even greater!

Any knowledge on this???

d nice
10-02-2003, 02:32 PM
You are both right. They asked the slots be turned to fit the camera angle for the TV shows, but the slot was used in the 20's you can see George Snowden dancing in a slot in "After Seben".

As to slots in the dance for dancing's sake... Lindy Hop was a circular dance the moves being more elliptical causing the direction the dancers faced changing to various degrees as the dance went on.

Modern lindy hop uses both a loose slot and arcs. It is not and never was slotted in the sense that WCS is slotted today, but there are numerous linear moves that give the impression of a slot.

The dances that evolved out of lindy hop all have their own unique form. Hand Dancing from the D.C./Baltimore area uses an asteriks, the leader maintaining a "center" postion and bringing the follower in and moving her out at various angles.

Vince A
10-02-2003, 04:01 PM
Thanks d nice, nice update on that info. It great to have someone on the DF with your knowledge of Swing dancing.

ANd thanks for mentioning George Snowden . . . I was trying to recall his name about a month ago . . . several of us were talking "Swing stuff," and somehting came up about George, but none of us could bring the name to our lips . . . now I can go back and tell them the answer!

pygmalion
10-02-2003, 04:03 PM
It great to have someone on the DF with your knowledge of Swing dancing.

Amen to this! We are very lucky! :D

Vince A
10-02-2003, 04:20 PM
It great to have someone on the DF with your knowledge of Swing dancing.

Amen to this! We are very lucky! :D

I see you kissin' up to him . . . and calling him "cute" too! What gives Jenn?

pygmalion
10-02-2003, 04:25 PM
I see you kissin' up to him . . . and calling him "cute" too! What gives Jenn?

:lol: :lol: Hey! Anybody patient enough to answer my dumb swing questions deserves a little flattery in return! :lol:

d nice
10-02-2003, 04:32 PM
No problem. To think I was "invited" here by someone posting on Yehoodi.

Vince A
10-02-2003, 04:53 PM
I see you kissin' up to him . . . and calling him "cute" too! What gives Jenn?

:lol: :lol: Hey! Anybody patient enough to answer my dumb swing questions deserves a little flattery in return! :lol:
You betcha . . . and he straightens me out a lot too!

Swing Kitten
10-03-2003, 12:01 AM
You betcha . . . and he straightens me out a lot too!

LOL! Sorry Vince, I SOOO took that the wrong way!! hheeehehehehehe

Besides... d nice is cute! You've seen the favorite memories thread! ...adorable and he knows it :wink:

Vince A
10-03-2003, 11:22 AM
:oops: :wink:

Spitfire
10-03-2003, 10:26 PM
Well written d nice.

Would like to mention country swing. I don't know much about the history of swing where C&W is concerned, but it experienced a surge in the early 80's due in part to Urban Cowboy and perhaps it helped to give a boost to swing in general at this time?

I can only think of two forms of swing unique to C&W as I learned and experienced it. One is called the Pony Swing which I never became very familiar with and the other being known at least locally as the Rodeo Swing which is very similar to the Hustle, but done to the same rhythm as single time swing. Don't know if the latter is even being done anymore, but I used to do it quite a bit some years back.

ECS and WCS though were used just as much as the above two I mention and many of the common patterns such as the Pretzel and Window are believed by many as being more particular to C&W.

Now, I have never seen or heard about Lindy Hop being incorporated into C&W even though I've heard a number of songs that at least to me have the tempo that would be suited to it, but I'm certainly open to correction if I am wrong.

d nice
11-07-2003, 07:25 AM
Despite the claims of some, "...the Savoy Lindy Hop (Known by the West Coast vernacular in the 1950's as 'Street Swing')." Savoy Style Lindy hop as a named style did not exist until the mid 1980's.

The surviving Savoy regulars all apparently agree that there was no one style associated with the Savoy Ballroom, at any point in it's history. Any claim that a dance style anywhere is "authentic Savoy Style Lindy Hop" is nothing more than smoke and mirrors and a transparant attempt at aligning two unrelated things in the publics mind IOW marketing.

What Savoy Style Lindy Hop refers to is the style of Lindy Hop that Frankie teaches, and those who have studied under him.

The "Street Swing" referenced above bears no stylistic resemblance to the mainstream styles of lindy hop danced in Harlem or at the Savoy Ballroom.

HepcatBob
11-07-2003, 10:10 AM
What Savoy Style Lindy Hop refers to is the style of Lindy Hop that Frankie teaches, and those who have studied under him.


That's what I learned and I learned most of it from Frankie.

I've been out dancing at different places and had guys in their 60s, 70s and even 80s come up to me and say stuff like "Where'd you learn to dance like that? You're doing that Harlem sh**."

pygmalion
11-07-2003, 01:10 PM
Amazing how obnoxious some people can be, isn't it? You'd think people would find out a little about the dances they're doing, if only to help them with styling, before they start making derogatory statements about other people's dancing. Go figure! :x

HepcatBob
11-07-2003, 05:36 PM
???
Was that a reply to my previous post?
If it was, then the way they said it wasn't derogatory at all. I guess you had to be there to hear the comments and the whole conversations. They were actually being quite complimentary. It was more like a druggie saying "That was some good s***."

pygmalion
11-07-2003, 07:17 PM
Wow! I totally misinterpreted. I've gooten SO HOOKED on emoticons. :shock: :lol:

Sagitta
11-08-2003, 02:17 AM
Very nice summary of swing music history d nice.


So have you guys started learning lindy? Pygmallian? Vince? When I started I had this tendency to rush about, as that's what I saw a lot of on the dance floor. I would watch out for that!! While it can be fast and whiplike, it can also be a lot more groovy and playful.

I too am trying out many different dances as I hate sitting out, especially when my body just gets into the music and I dig it. Not too easy though as I haven't done even any particular dance for even a year, yet. A lot of unintentional blending of different styles!!

bouncybouncyweee
11-08-2003, 05:02 AM
I too am trying out many different dances as I hate sitting out, especially when my body just gets into the music and I dig it. Not too easy though as I haven't done even any particular dance for even a year, yet. A lot of unintentional blending of different styles!!

I so understand you Sagitta! I've only been learning for that amount of time, and for that matter, I haven't taken many lessons. I've just picked it up social dancing and asking the good leaders for help. (Thanks jonathan!) My styles get all mized up, and the different tension in my arms for different danes always 'causes me problems. But I'm constantly being criticised for my WCS being too bouncy, and I don't even know how to Lindy yet! :evil:

And I thank you for the history as well D nice!