Social dance problems...

[oh_the_humanity...]

I've been dancing about 18 months now, taking private lessons 2-3 times a week with different instructors along with some group classes. I've been learning ECS and Lindy, Waltz, Fox Trot, Cha-Cha, R(h?)umba, White-boy Tango (er, American Tango :D) and more recently I started learning a bit of Salsa and Merengue...

My intent when I started dancing was to be more social, so social dancing was a big part of my goals. (Surprise!) I'm definitely more than a bit of a loner, and I figured it'd be nice to have something fun and social to do on a Friday night. Unfortunately... that seems to have turned into a total flop.

After taking about six months of lessons I started regularly showing up at a few of the social dances in the area. I had no idea just how hard it would be. Lots of rejections, few repeat dances, and from what I saw there were many more men than women out on the floor looking for partners. Towards the end I was spending at least 3-4 hours a week trying to get dances with no luck at all. After about eight frustrating months of this I called it quits--I got really fed up with constantly asking women to dance and constantly getting turned down, and trying to guess which ones were actually looking for a dance versus just there to chat...

I don't think it was my "approach"--I'm a reasonably confident person (and a confident dancer), I deal well with social situations and I don't have trouble talking with people. Occasionally I would meet someone that I would "click" with and we'd dance 2-3 times that evening, but she invariably never showed up again.

I eventually gave up on the group classes 'cause the men/women ratio was typically about 2:1 and I don't really enjoy dancing with men. I suspect most of the women show up at the Salsa classes; I have relatively little interest in Salsa...

My instructors assure me that I'm a decently good dancer and that I don't have any particularly bad habits--I have a reasonably solid lead, don't put my hands in the wrong places, step on women's feet, etc, etc. No bad breath, no body odor, I'm always dressed nicely and I'm the quintessence of polite when I'm on the floor. I certainly am not perfect, and I'm sure my dance skills need plenty of work--but I'm not a bottom-of-the-barrel dancer by any means, and I feel confident about myself and my current skill level.

Granted I'm probably in the wrong age bracket (mid 30s), and I don't know anybody else who dances so it's just that much harder--especially always having to show up by myself. I also find watching people dance is about as interesting as watching people fly airplanes or play golf (I'd much rather be doing it), so standing around idle for hours on end is excruciatingly boring for me.

But... is it supposed to be that hard? I realize that asking "what am I doing wrong?" is kinda useless because it's unlikely anyone here actually knows, but at the same time this has been one frustrating experience. I ask my instructors and they have no concrete suggestions; I ask people I've met through group classes and they have no ideas either.

I still take lessons, and I'm preparing for a competition in a few months (though I'm just not a competitive person so I have doubts it'll be something I want to continue doing). But I'm in a real dilemma, because I've been spending much time learning to dance--but if it isn't something that I'm actually going to be able to do it seems rather pointless to learn. The cost of lessons I don't mind, I can easily afford it--it's the time I'm investing that I'm wondering about, as I can't help but wonder if my time would be better spent doing something that would actually help me to be more social. Don't get me wrong, I really love dancing--but I'd really love to actually dance once in a while, instead of just learning to dance all the time.

[jon]

No, it's not supposed to be that hard. Sorry you're having trouble.

How many venues have you tried? I don't really know what the ballroom scene is like over in the East Bay, particularly that far north, but you've got Metronome, Allegro, Two Left Feet in Danville, doubtless some others. And a ton of Lindy events too.

If some of the problem is with a particular group which has a strong gender imbalance not in your favor, or is substantially different than you in age (not sure if that's what you mean by mid-30s being the wrong age - it's right in the middle of the ballroom demographic in Silicon Valley), or the like, maybe changing venues would help. Beyond that I have no clever thoughts. If you want to come down to Starlite in Sunnyvale some Saturday, I could introduce you to a few followers and perhaps get you some feedback by observation.

I suspect most of the women show up at the Salsa classes; I have relatively little interest in Salsa...

Heh. I decided not to put any time into the local Salsa scene after going to a couple of classes with a 6:1 unpartnered male:female ratio. Combine that with the frequent warnings in the Salsa discussion threads about how non-Latinos have to "prove themselves" before people will want to dance with them, and it didn't sound like there was much there for me.

[blue]

Granted I'm probably in the wrong age bracket (mid 30s), and I don't know anybody else who dances so it's just that much harder--especially always having to show up by myself. I also find watching people dance is about as interesting as watching people fly airplanes or play golf (I'd much rather be doing it), so standing around idle for hours on end is excruciatingly boring for me.


How many of the folks around here did usually go out dancing alone, when you were new to the game? My guess is that most of you did not.

I smell a viscious circle here. Spending much time standing idle for hours is probably not going to do any good. I did not try that hard... When looking around in the local dance scene as a beginner, my major feeling is that I just can't do this alone. I need a small group of people to go out dancing with, and then I think it will be so much easier. What dancing I learned (which isn't that much) I learned at seminars away from my home town, and now I think this was a major mistake. I'll make sure to take classes at an environment where I am likely to build such a little group.

Did the thought of talking about going out dancing with some of the people from your class ever occur to you? If not, then maybe the studio's environment is not so encouraging for this. Or maybe you spent very short time with each group, having done so many different kinds of dances, that you had little chance to get to know someone? Maybe a priority when finding a studio would be to find a place where the teachers takes the group out dancing once or twice. I've found such a place here, and hope that's a good start for me.

[jon]

How many of the folks around here did usually go out dancing alone, when you were new to the game?

Me for one. Took one semester of social dance at school, came out here to intern for the summer at Apple, went to my first actual dance (Pavilion in Palo Alto). Realized that I was either going to stand around watching all summer or learn some new social skills, and to my surprise managed to force myself to start asking random friendly-looking people to dance. Worked pretty well in that case. (Actually, to the original poster - Pavilion on Friday and Saturday may still be one of the best places for newer dancers. There are a lot of people, the average skill level isn't particularly high, and because it's not a studio environment, there's probably less cliquishness).

But really I agree, going out with a similarly-skilled group can be a good confidence builder, and give you a safe place to return to base.

[salsachinita]

a couple of classes with a 6:1 unpartnered male:female ratio.

:shock: here would be the other way round :shock: !

[squirrel]

Here it's more like 3:1 (soooo many females... luckily I have a partner...)
Well, maybe try and get friendly with the people you see all the time at the socials (the regulars)... go to the socials where your colleagues in the dance class go... I am an instructor and after the classes I usually encourage people to go with us for a beer... or a juice... or whatever! I mean, I want them to make friends and have a great time! Maybe you (or your instructors) should do the same... You said you're preparing for a comp... good luck... but this usually implies a partner... why not have her come with you?!

[Sarah]

I eventually gave up on the group classes 'cause the men/women ratio was typically about 2:1 and I don't really enjoy dancing with men. I suspect most of the women show up at the Salsa classes; I have relatively little interest in Salsa...

Hi there. Can I call you Oh for short?

You're right, without meeting you in person it's impossible to tell wether there's something wrong with your social dancing or your approach, but I do think you have the lesson thing backwards. If I were looking for social interaction I would ditch the privates and the competition practice, go to the group lessons and round up a bunch of regulars to hit whatever your local nightspot is. Even if the M/F ratio is 2:1, you're bound to get a resonable number of dances from your group alone, and if other women see you dancing and having fun you are more likely to get a warm reception.
Also, you'll have someone to talk to in between time, even if it is just comiserating with the other guys over the distressing lack of women.....

Cheers
Sarah

[Vin]

Sorry to hear about that situation. Where I live it is a similar situation, alot more guys than girls.
First bit of advice, You are a good dancer, there no problems with your social dancing, I doubt you smell and I doubt that you grope. No need to ask the other dancers what is wrong. By asking the other dancers about the problem you start to create an aura of desperation about yourself and the whole situation will deteriorate.
Move to the dances that are more popular with the younger crowd. I hate to say it but salsa and swing are your best bets for social dancing. Even if the scene is lead heavy keep going and trying, all you really need to do is make one female friend in the dance scene and you will start to feel more comfortable. Make some friends with the leads as well, that way you get introduced to people. Once you become one of the more popular leads the ratio at the dances will not seem to matter as much.
Do you go to the lessons that are often offered before the social? Definitely go this is a great way to meet people to dance with later on in the evening.
Take as many group lessons as you can, this is a great way to meet people and you will always pick up something useful.

[blue]

No need to ask the other dancers what is wrong. By asking the other dancers about the problem you start to create an aura of desperation about yourself and the whole situation will deteriorate.
Yes, I think so too. Everyone will want to get into the sunshine, so those who look like they bring the shadow with them will get avoided without people even knowing why - they will just not feel like having much to do with that person. Real life is like this too, but from what I have seen it is just a little bit more obvious in dance settings.

You probably just need something to break this negative aura... and what makes the difference could be pure coincidence, really. Change of venues, as jon said, is probably a good idea.

[Spitfire]

Sorry to hear that you're having such trouble humanity.

Have you tried attending other venues? Also, these dances you have been attending; are the other people mostly experienced dancers or are there others who are fairly new?

[cl5814]

First bit of advice, You are a good dancer, there no problems with your social dancing, I doubt you smell and I doubt that you grope. No need to ask the other dancers what is wrong. By asking the other dancers about the problem you start to create an aura of desperation about yourself and the whole situation will deteriorate.
Do you go to the lessons that are often offered before the social? Definitely go this is a great way to meet people to dance with later on in the evening.
Take as many group lessons as you can, this is a great way to meet people and you will always pick up something useful.

I will agree with Vin especially on a few points.
Going to group lessons before/during the social is a great way to dance with people in the group and getting to know them a bit, even if you are only learning the basic step of a dance you already know well.
You have been turned down for dances, you are still dancing, so just accept that as a fact that you will get turned down every now and then and ask somebody else to dance. I know, not easy to do and most likely not what you wanted to hear. If you keep this up you will be known as someone dancing with "everybody" and will become very popular at the dances because you show the right attitude.
Same is true for group lessons during the week. Attend as many of them as you can.
Always look like you are enjoying your dances, remember to smile or joke around.
As you have heard from others on this board and in real life, you have no big No No problems with your dancing. I found that it takes a few months to become part of a dance scene at a specific club/studio. Just keep going at it.

[Sagitta]

My 2 cents. Mostly a repitition of what other people have said, but with some comments from personal experiences.

I agree that the aura you project gets noticed. Tuesday night I was standing out a dance, checkin' people out, and this girl just comes and asks me to dance. I was at the edge of teh dance floor, probably moving a little, slight smile on my face, wincing whenever I saw rough dancers...

Later on they put some reggaeton on. Not in the mood for it. I wasn't dancing. I didn't get asked. I would have if someone asked me as I don't easily say no, but luckily I was spared that! :)

The idea of going to free lessons before dances works. I used to do that, and get dances that way. And what people say about asking people works. I have some really good followers on a regular basis come and ask me for dances, as a result.

Also, don't the people who take lessons go out dancing? Check out with them and go to the same places they do. I do that. Sometimes I go as a group, car pooling, though I usually tend to go out dancing by myself. It works for me.

[tj]

But I'm in a real dilemma, because I've been spending much time learning to dance--but if it isn't something that I'm actually going to be able to do it seems rather pointless to learn. The cost of lessons I don't mind, I can easily afford it--it's the time I'm investing that I'm wondering about, as I can't help but wonder if my time would be better spent doing something that would actually help me to be more social. Don't get me wrong, I really love dancing--but I'd really love to actually dance once in a while, instead of just learning to dance all the time.

All right – I’m going to take a different view on this. Mostly because of how & what you’ve said. We’re all dance fiends on this forum, so our typical answers are obvious.

But it may not be the correct advice for you…

Your primary goal is to be more social and have something fun to do on the weekend, right?

Then pick up another hobby.

If dancing is your primary hobby, and it’s not giving you the satisfaction that you want (especially after having been at it for a year and a half) then do something else. Try something new. Go to a different scene. I have a friend who’s been telling me about a hiking club that she’s recently joined.

Personally, I don’t like having the dance scene as being my only social outlet. Just like any other activity, it’s got it’s own unique problems, and it can wear on you after a while.

I’m not saying give up on dancing completely. Just pick up an additional hobby and make sure to keep the ones that fulfill you.

[etchuck]

1) Where do the students in your group classes go for socials? How about your instructors?
2) Suggestion already made: go early, get a good parking space, and take the free introductory lesson. ******* your basics, and make yourself known to the people who are least likely to dance that you enjoy dancing with them.
3) You're not in the wrong age bracket. Unless you have a child that is in high school, then maybe. :)
4) Are you so good that people think you're an instructor (not that that would be a complaint, but people are intimidated by very confident dancers too)? I'm assuming you don't throw beginners into too many crazy moves that they're not familiar with.

In my opinion, just keep asking and have fun when you do dance. I don't know why it would be so hard where you are. Many times have I started my dancing life with very little dancing, but I've kept at it. I still consider myself more of a loner and an observer than I do an extroverted dancer, so if I don't keep asking or get discouraged, I will wind up not dancing for the duration of a dance if I don't watch out.

Also, I'd also say, get to know the people who run the dances you attend (including the DJ's). The organizers themselves may be busy, but if they see that you're a patron and a good dancer to boot, they'd want to assure you to return to their dances rather than walk away to find some other venue to spend your money on. And I also assume the organizers are pretty good dancers as well who don't get much of a chance to dance at their own parties.

[tj]

(pardon the multiple posts)

How do I delete a post?

[DanceAm]

I think you haven't found the right place. You are on the other side of the country from me, but here you would be a welcome addition to our dance scene. You seem to have the initiative to get out there but it just doesn't seem to be happening in your area. Hopefully the recommendations people have made here might be worth a try.

I have found some cliques form in dance communities and some are very closed to the idea of expanding the clique. But here if you don't have clique, new students start forming their own in a matter of a few months. It is amazing how such diverse individuals form an informal dance group and are bound together by their love of dance.

It shouldn't be as hard as you describe, and being a loner has got to be the worst. But I think if you keep taking lessons and desire to get better and work at it, you will be noticed. After 5 years, I can't hardly go anywhere without meeting other dancers and getting invited to join in, it is the easiest way I have made friends than with any other activity I have been involved in. I wouldn't give up if I were you.

[Chris Stratton]

I still take lessons, and I'm preparing for a competition in a few months (though I'm just not a competitive person so I have doubts it'll be something I want to continue doing).

If the social side of things is dissatisfying, you might really want to look into the competition side - preferably with a partner to keep costs down. Competition doesn't have to be about winning - it can simply be about dancing well and enjoying it. Also, if you show up at a social with your competition partner and do some good dancing together, you may start getting more dances from others.

Obviously if you are in an environment with an unfavorable gender ratio finding a competition partner may be hard as well - but it's not necessarily the same "market" - people tend to be a little more serious and want a partner who is a good dancer rather than just someone they want to flirt with. So it's not impossible that you'd have more luck finding a competition partner than you have with socials... at least it doesn't sound like it could get much worse.

I don't go to socials alone (uncoordinated with anyone else I know will show up) as much as I used to, but when I did I found it was also possible to get into a dancing mode, or get into a watching mode. Often after you've sat out many songs in a row, perhaps involuntarily, it can be really hard to get back into things, but sometimes if you can break back in things will then go better for a while.

[TemptressToo]

I've a thought...how about finding yourself a dance partner of sorts. There is a website which is something like dancepartners.com (probably not the exact site...but Google it). That way, you can meet a person also looking for a dance partner...perhaps meet for coffee, have a trial period and see how things go.

That way, you kill two birds with one stone. You have somebody to dance with that is equally searching for a partner and you both improve/utilize what you have learned.

Also, sometimes dancing is like job searching...once you have a job...other job offers come out of the woodwork. It is when you are jobless that you can't EVER seem to find a job. With a partner that you can become comfortable with...others will see the confidence and skills you have and be more apt to try you out.

Might be worth a try...

[oh_the_humanity...]

I was going to most of the obvious suggestions around here--Metronome, Starlight, Allegro. I've been regularly taking lessons at the Metronome, and I've taken a few group classes at other places as well. I don't have a car, so I'm pretty much limited to places I can get to via mass transit (which doesn't seem like it should be that big a limitation...) I don't think it's the venues.

Jon, I really appreciate the offer, but Sunnyvale is just a bit far to go--I'll keep it in mind though. My experience has been there are a lot more older couples around here, and in group classes only rarely do I run into folks my age.

I think much of the advice was good, and it sounds like whatever problems I'm having are solely my own so I'm going to be better off giving up on it entirely--but I'd like to make a few points.

If I'd started dancing in group classes, I would have given up during the first lesson. Not everyone does well in a group environment, and I've found I have an insanely hard time learning new things that way.

The majority of the group classes I've taken have been tiny (I've been in classes with just one other person, and only rarely more than 7-8 people) and I have yet to meet anyone who goes social dancing on a regular basis. It's been older (50+) couples, couples under 30, or guys learning to dance 'cause their girlfriends do. Attending group classes like that isn't something I'd want to do all the time; it's boring, involves a lot of standing around watching other people dance because there aren't enough partners to go around, and I'm not actually learning anything. And a surprising number of people with limited English-speaking skills...

I always go to the lessons before the social dance, not that it's helped any... again, same deal. Once in a blue moon I'd run across someone looking for a partner that evening (that happened once or twice). More often than not it seems people take the free lesson and don't stick around for the dance. The vast majority of dancers I see on the floor are much more experienced and tend to dance with the same group of people (or the same partner).

As for finding a dance partner, my gut feeling is that I'd have about as much luck doing that as I did with online dating--none at all. The online sites exude the typical "meat market" vibes, and I'm neither good-looking nor a really good dancer. (I'm in good physical condition, just not the sort of guy that women find attractive.) To be utterly honest with myself, I'm just not serious enough about it to want to spend many hours practicing routines for a competition. I enjoy dancing, but that's a whole different level that has about as much appeal as getting my arms jerked out of my sockets. (For the competition I'm doing in September I'm going with one of the instructors I work with on a regular basis, and we're just going to show up and start dancing--no set routines or anything. I'm sure it'll be... interesting. :D)

From what I can tell the dance scene around here is very cliquish, and I think DanceAm hit it right on the head. I may be wrong--I hope I'm wrong--but when I see the same groups of people dancing all the time, it doesn't take much brains to figure out what's going on. The only times I've had any consistent success are when someone is showing up for their first lesson/dance or just happen to be in the area... but that hasn't happened often enough to make me want to keep trying it. I've only had a few social dances with someone who's more experienced than I and who isn't an instructor (and those were all with the same woman).

From the suggestions here so far, it seems pretty clear that willingness, desire and ability isn't nearly enough. I suffered from a delusion there'd regularly be women who just showed up to a social dance looking for partners; clearly it doesn't work that way, at least not usually. I'm just not into this whole "schmooze my way into the right group of people" scene. And it's certainly not like I wasn't asking anyone, as I'm sure I've asked at least a few hundred times... and the only women who've asked me are ones I'd already been dancing with that evening.

So: most likely it's partly the venues available to me (specifically, not many beginners looking to social dance), and partly my own lack of desire to "join the club" and a lack of friends who dance. I don't think it's my abilities or anything like that--I get a lot of compliments. It's... other stuff.

[cl5814]

Mr Oh,

I share some of the same frustrations you are having. I have semi-quitted from social dancing for a while now, although for different reasons.

I'd recommend taking a break from dancing (sounds like you have decided this in any case) and whenever you travel out of town, to look up a local dance studio for a few hours to dance - maybe you can even hook up with a DF member. It is a skill you picked up, nobody can take it from you, it was time well spend. Maybe in a year or two, the dance scene in your area change (or you move to another location) and you would want to join the dance scene again.

Hope you will be staying with us on the discussion board.....

[Chris Stratton]

I don't want to be too critical since you are obviously in a frustrating situation, but I do think there are some alternatives.

The majority of the group classes I've taken have been tiny.... it's boring, involves a lot of standing around watching other people dance because there aren't enough partners to go around, and I'm not actually learning anything.

I don't see why the lack of a partner keeps your from dancing all the time in a group class. If you really want to learn to dance, there is plenty to experiment with on your own even in the most basic material. I'd try to look at the times without a partner as a chance to think of and figure out ideas for how to improve your dancing, and the times with a partner as a chance to try them.

As for finding a dance partner, my gut feeling is that I'd have about as much luck doing that as I did with online dating--none at all. The online sites exude the typical "meat market" vibes, and I'm neither good-looking nor a really good dancer. (I'm in good physical condition, just not the sort of guy that women find attractive.)

This would not match my opinion at all - partner searches may look like dating sites (espcially that pay-to-contact commercial one) but they really are a quite different dynamic. I don't think most women on them with competition experience and seeking competition partners are necessarily looking for a boyfriend - rather they seem to be looking for someone decent, trustworthy, and with cpabaility or at least potential - and often who isn't too obviously looking for a girlfriend.

To be utterly honest with myself, I'm just not serious enough about it to want to spend many hours practicing routines for a competition. I enjoy dancing, but that's a whole different level that has about as much appeal as getting my arms jerked out of my sockets. (For the competition I'm doing in September I'm going with one of the instructors I work with on a regular basis, and we're just going to show up and start dancing--no set routines or anything. I'm sure it'll be... interesting. :D)

That's the way I always compete... If there is one idea I want to share with the rest dance community right now, it's that competition dancing doesn't have to be artificial - you should just go out there and do your best dancing. I think of it as the perfect social dance - when you have a partner you can trust, proper clothing, the right shoes, music at the right tempo, and hopefully a limited number of other couples on the floor who also know what they are doing. While I've been known to end up repeating in subsequent rounds more or less the same dance I lead in the prelimary, there is no routine... I just do what works and feels good at the time.

and the only women who've asked me are ones I'd already been dancing with that evening.

Well at lest you have some votes of confidence if they ask you for another dance after you asked them.[/quote]

[Vin]

Oh, don't give up on it. I have personally had many nights where I couldn't get a dance to save my life. Sometimes the scene you are in is just bad.
If you are trying to meet women who dance I will say it again, swing, salsa, and I didn't mention these before but contra and clogging are great dance venues that young people attend. I know very few people in my age group that do strict ballroom dancing. Yet I know alot that go to these venues.
You live in the san fransisco area, doesn't Berkeley have dance clubs for the different dances. I am sure there is some sort of swing or salsa club, maybe even a ballroom club. Have you tried looking those clubs up online and attending there events?
How about the local usabda chapter?
You will do great at the other kinds of dancing because you do have a strong ballroom background, thus giving you very strong fundamentals.
Finally realize that if you are attending dance's to try and meet someone to date that can be detected by the women from a mile away. If that is the case then maybe you should give up on dancing for a while.

[Sagitta]

When I started dancing I did not know anyone. I kid you not!! However, I would go up to people, even those in groups, and just ask them to dance. No chit chat. No getting to know people. No attempt to belonging or getting "into" a group. It worked for me. I don't see why it shouldn't work for you. :)

[huey]

... My intent when I started dancing was to be more social, so social dancing was a big part of my goals. (Surprise!) I'm definitely more than a bit of a loner, and I figured it'd be nice to have something fun and social to do on a Friday night.

... After taking about six months of lessons I started regularly showing up at a few of the social dances in the area. I had no idea just how hard it would be. Lots of rejections, few repeat dances, and from what I saw there were many more men than women out on the floor looking for partners. Towards the end I was spending at least 3-4 hours a week trying to get dances with no luck at all. After about eight frustrating months of this I called it quits--I got really fed up with constantly asking women to dance and constantly getting turned down, and trying to guess which ones were actually looking for a dance versus just there to chat...

... Occasionally I would meet someone that I would "click" with and we'd dance 2-3 times that evening, but she invariably never showed up again.

... I really love dancing--but I'd really love to actually dance once in a while, instead of just learning to dance all the time.

Hi oth,

So, I conclude from your post:

1. You're a loner
2. You've been dancing for 18 months and you love it
3. You're fed up with your lack of success at social dancing
4. You occasionally click with someone

I have a fair amount in common with you. The main difference is that I seem to have more success social dancing. I find that I usually 'click' with an average of one woman each time I go out dancing. By 'click' I mean I really feel that we are both enjoying our dance and that we are a 'team' working together. These are the dances that stay in my memory, and I look forward to dancing with the same people again.

Sometimes, women give me comments like 'that was lovely', showing that they have enjoyed dancing with me. Women also ask me to dance. I do also get refused thought, and find this hard to take. Overall, I have progressed from being terrified of social dancing to being reasonably comfortable, and feeling I can 'hold my own' and have a good time.

So, regarding your problems. You say you love dancing and feel confident with it. I find it strange that most of the places that dance have a high male to female ratio, as in my experience it is usually the opposite :D

I agree with the advice already given to learn with a group rather than on your own. Then talk to people in the group - if your intention is to 'be more social' then this will give you the chance to do so. You may then find you have other things in common with these people instead of dancing. But if it's just dancing, then fine. Talk to men in the class and dances. Ask them about their dancing - and don't be afraid to ask for their advice. Swop notes on dances or moves you enjoy. Discuss different teachers. Ask them about other venuew they enjoy.

Try to find a class with a balanced male-female ratio, or more women than men. This will mean you will get plenty of dances with women in the class. Then find out where these women dance. Ideally, find a regular class that is immediately followed by a social dance. Then you just dance with the women you've danced with in the class. If one venue doesn't work for you, try another one.

Good luck, and I would love to hear what you decide and how it works out for you. 8)

[etchuck]

There is something to be said about decreasing quantity to increase quality. I think you should see if you should meet up at Sunnyvale on a future weekend. Plan it out and meet up the local people who also frequent this board. Have a fun outing with a group of people who enjoy this activity as much as you. If you don't like the cliques where you are, go to where you can make your own clique or where you can feel like you're welcome. It may be inconvenient to hike it out to a dance farther away, but if the experience you get out there is much better than locally...

[huey]

Hi oth,

Sorry, I didn't spot your follow-up post before my earlier one. So here are some more thoughts after reading more from you.


... If I'd started dancing in group classes, I would have given up during the first lesson. Not everyone does well in a group environment, and I've found I have an insanely hard time learning new things that way ...
That's not a problem now because you have already learned.

... The majority of the group classes I've taken have been tiny (I've been in classes with just one other person, and only rarely more than 7-8 people) and I have yet to meet anyone who goes social dancing on a regular basis. It's been older (50+) couples, couples under 30, or guys learning to dance 'cause their girlfriends do. ...
I can only say that is completely the opposite of the Lindy Hop (Swing) scene in London, which consists mostly of single people in their 30s and 40s. There are also those in their 20s, 50s, 60s and 70s! People who do arrive in couples are often happy to dance with others as well. Having been to a few Salsa and Jive clubs, the membership is also single people in their 30s and 40s. I imagine that in big US cities it is the same pattern. Have you tried San Francisco, Los Angeles or other large cities?


... I always go to the lessons before the social dance, not that it's helped any... again, same deal. Once in a blue moon I'd run across someone looking for a partner that evening (that happened once or twice). More often than not it seems people take the free lesson and don't stick around for the dance. The vast majority of dancers I see on the floor are much more experienced and tend to dance with the same group of people (or the same partner). ...
You do get groups or cliques forming in the dances I go to, but there are plenty of people who aren't in one, or who are happy to invite you into theirs if you show interest.


... I suffered from a delusion there'd regularly be women who just showed up to a social dance looking for partners; clearly it doesn't work that way, at least not usually...

When you say 'looking for partners' I take it you mean dance partners. Well, in London hundreds of women regularly go out dancing and they dance with different partners, not restricting themselves to a single dance partner, husband, boyfriend or men within their circle of friends. So, one answer is - come to London. But as I said earlier, I would be surprised if the same doesn't apply in most big cities.

If you really want to give up, then give up. Or at least take a break. If you come back to it later, bearing in mind your comment -
most likely it's partly the venues available to me (specifically, not many beginners looking to social dance)
- try to find venues with plenty of individuals to have come to social dance with others.

Good luck, and keep us 'posted'. :wink:

[tasche]

Where is this place that theres more men than women?????

Though I wonder if the reason theirs less women is that we tend to get discouraged very easily and probably stop social dancing for reasons similar to what you have stated.

I have pretty much stopped social dancing as it wasn't very social ( I never turned a dance down btw )

[Sagitta]

And where are you that social dancing is anti-social? :shock:

I got to stay away from there. Or come with a group of clique anti-social busting dfers. :wink:

[twnkltoz]

Humanity,

I'm in Sacramento...if you can hitch a ride, come on up to the Ballroom of Sacramento (sacdance.com). We always have extra ladies and most (!) have the good grace to accept dance offers from anyone who asks. If you'd like, I'll give you some candid, constructive feedback if you're doing something that makes people not want to dance with you.

I'm also going to International Grand Ball on Saturday during the day and will be going social dancing somewhere in the bay area that night. Not sure where yet...usually we go to the Starlite.

twynkltoz@yahoo.com

[twodance]

The best thing you are doing is going to a competition. When you compete you are dancing against people your own age. Ask your instructor to show you how to read the age brackets in the competition program. That is where you will find male and female dancers your age. Most programs tell where the students are from also. Plus you will know the level of dancers.

[PunkDancer]

I have a good guess on what the problem could be, but in this case I think it'll be better for me to hold my tounge.

[oh_the_humanity...]

Again, thanks for the feedback... I think I have a handle now on what the issues are, but frankly I don't think it's an easily solvable thing--nor should I expect it to be.

The ultimate issue is that I'm a loner, I'm not looking to make new friends... and from asking people it seems the popular dance venues in the area are fairly cliquish ("a tough crowd") with a few possible exceptions that I'm going to check out--but I'm certainly not holding my breath.

When I say "be more social", I really mean "be in the same room with other people". That's it. I'm not looking to pick up chix, make friends, influence people, whatever. I'm strictly looking to dance, preferably with women. I think that causes a lot of confusion all around; I don't have any real understanding of what other people are looking for when it comes to "being social", and I don't know that I want to.

There isn't anything I'm doing to turn potential dance partners off. I've spent more than enough time dancing that if I had any bad habits it'd be obvious by now. I'm assured that I'm a very nice guy, an excellent dancer (and someone who is fun to dance with), and I have nothing to worry about in either the "vibes" or confidence departments.

That totally jibes with my experiences. I've had some successful dances, but always with beginners or people new to the area. I've had some awesome experiences leading less experienced followers through new moves, and it's been clear most of the people I danced with enjoyed themselves. The turn-downs have consistently come from people who "don't know who I am"--and since I'm not part of the crowd, I'm not going to get asked either.

I'm sure that with a lot of effort I could make this work, but it wouldn't be worth it to me. So I'll look for other ways to accomplish the same goal.

[Sagitta]

Ultimately you know best what you want. Live the faith, your faith in yourself. Know that we are here and dance will be here whenever you want to get into it. :cheers:

[tasche]

And where are you that social dancing is anti-social? :shock:

I got to stay away from there. Or come with a group of clique anti-social busting dfers. :wink:

Los Angeles of course! Its a tough town

[squirrel]

Hmmm... interesting...
I have no idea what your problem is... maybe it's your attitude!
Let me tell you I met a guy at a dance lesson (I was the assistant of the instructor) who nobody liked! The guy has a Ph.D. in Maths and he teaches in University... he's very smart! But he is disgusting...! Not sleazy, not a groper... just disgusting... his dancing is like him! And even though he tried to socialize, nobody really accepted him... So actually it was his attitude...

[MacMoto]

That totally jibes with my experiences. I've had some successful dances, but always with beginners or people new to the area. I've had some awesome experiences leading less experienced followers through new moves, and it's been clear most of the people I danced with enjoyed themselves.
Chances are these beginners and new faces are experiencing the same problem as you -- not belonging to any clique and finding it difficult to get dances. If you are one of the few people who ask them to dance and they enjoy dancing with you, continue what you've been doing -- they will remember you as "the nice man who danced with me when I was new" and will be happy to dance with you.

As others have said, if your local scene is very cliquey, it may be a good idea to go out of town to dance where people are less group oriented. You may have to cut down the number of nights you can go out, but if you get more dances that way, I'm sure it's worth it. Contacting DFers in the area you are going to is definitely a good idea.

I really hope you will not have to give up dancing altogether, especially since you obviously enjoy it.

[blue]

humanity, you have my sympathy. I left another hobby - too important to me to be called hobby, really - for reasons that were somewhat similar to what you describe. Your description make me think about how I tried and tried for years, working so hard for something that was just not going to happen - not in the way I was trying to make it work, at least. In retrospect, I spent too much time in places that was not going to make me anywhere near happy, with people who brought out sides of me that I did not like. It was like I was banging my head in the brick wall, over and over again.

To me it sounds like a healthy thing to drop it and concentrate on something else. Find something else that you like to do, and either drop dancing completely for a while or let dancing take less time and effort. I have found that taking breaks from stuff you've been doing intensively and coming back later, is not only healthy but can actually lead to major improvement - I'm talking tech stuff rather than social here, actually. You see things with new eyes. If you don't come back to dancing - well then, good luck with whatever else you choose to do. Myself, I think I will spend quite some time of the years to come on dancing - but that depends on how things develop. You never know.

[cy_phi]

OTH,

I can empathize with you and your dilemma. I also started dancing in my 30's with the same goals you have which was to become more social through dancing. The goal was accomplished as I started to make new friends especially non-work friends. Fortunately there was no clique at the studio. The only bad moments were when there were more men than women in the group lessons. They were rare but when it happened, it did not make my night. Nevertheless, I continued with the dancing.

Regarding cliques, I find that they usually dissolve when you show them [the women especially] that you can shake your booty with the best of them. Just hold your own.

I diversified my choices of dance venues like you did. Once I did, I found that I had a better time. Soon I was dancing 5 nights a week. Since you live in Berkeley, I can't imagine that there's a lack of not only ballroom dance venues, but also Salsa and Swing clubs too in SF. There's also the collegiate scene as well and they also hold social dances.

Take it from me, with time things will work out for you on the social dance scene. Keep at it and you'll find your groove. I've been dancing for 4.5 years now and I'm looking forward to performing shows and competing with my new dance partners [4 women, woo-hoo!]. :D

[jon]

When I say "be more social", I really mean "be in the same room with other people". That's it. I'm not looking to pick up chix, make friends, influence people, whatever. I'm strictly looking to dance, preferably with women. I think that causes a lot of confusion all around; I don't have any real understanding of what other people are looking for when it comes to "being social", and I don't know that I want to.

People have lots of different reasons for dancing, and they obtain different rewards from it. However, even for people not interested in socializing, per se, it is going to be more difficult to be accepted if they act asocially.

Pleasant greetings, occasional idle chat, and a sense that dance partners are human beings you're sharing a pleasant experience with, rather than practice dummies who have the correct chromosomes, are sort of a bare minimum level of sociability in partner dance activities, IMO. I don't doubt there are a bunch of Objectivist dancers out there who see each other only in terms of fulfilling their own needs, but most of them probably don't get asked to dance a lot :-)

[tj]

The ultimate issue is that I'm a loner, I'm not looking to make new friends...

When I say "be more social", I really mean "be in the same room with other people". That's it. I'm not looking to pick up chix, make friends, influence people, whatever. I'm strictly looking to dance, preferably with women. I think that causes a lot of confusion all around; I don't have any real understanding of what other people are looking for when it comes to "being social", and I don't know that I want to.


To be brutally honest. It's statements like this which would give off bad vibes to not only me, but a lot of women that I know.

Maybe I have totally a wrong impression, but all I picture is a guy sitting in the back of the club brooding and looking angry cuz he's not dancing enough. And in these sorts of cases, it will and has caused my female friends to come running over, in order to get me to dance with her instead of him.

It could just be the scene you're in. But it could be the expression you're wearing on your face, and are totally unaware of it. Just because you think you're not giving off bad vibes.... well, maybe the follows are picking up on something that you don't know.

Bottom line is that social dancing isn't satisfying you right now. That means it's time for a break.

[oh_the_humanity...]

Maybe I have totally a wrong impression, but all I picture is a guy sitting in the back of the club brooding and looking angry cuz he's not dancing enough. And in these sorts of cases, it will and has caused my female friends to come running over, in order to get me to dance with her instead of him.


You know, it's statements like these that make me regret ever asking anyone for any assistance whatsoever. Don't worry, I won't bother anyone here again.

tj, do you have any idea how totally self-aggrandizing that statement sounds? Seriously, I'm so glad you can "be there" and protect your friends from such evil and nasty people as myself.

Yep, that's right, I'm that nasty little greasy guy sitting in the back of the club, mumbling curse words under my breath as I glare menacingly at everyone else in the room and plot the demise of every male leader on the planet... pinning down unsuspecting women and screaming "why won't you dance with me?" as I stumble blindly across the room, tripping over my shoelaces... an exudate of alcohol, body odor and slime trailing behind.

If that image makes you feel better about yourselves, go for it.

sigh

[oh_the_humanity...]

Chances are these beginners and new faces are experiencing the same problem as you -- not belonging to any clique and finding it difficult to get dances. If you are one of the few people who ask them to dance and they enjoy dancing with you, continue what you've been doing -- they will remember you as "the nice man who danced with me when I was new" and will be happy to dance with you.

Yeah, I've actually been debating with myself about going back to some of the dances because of exactly this... but it's tough; it's very discouraging to stand around for hours on end with nobody to dance with. It's a great feeling to have a fun experience and hopefully encourage someone else to keep dancing, but because of various things (including some schedule and structure changes at a couple of the places I used to go) fewer and fewer beginners were showing up. When I went six weeks without getting any dances at all, I knew it was time to drop it, at least for a while.

I would suspect most beginners get very, very discouraged around here. The only reason I've kept going is because I enjoy the challenge of learning to dance and can afford to take private lessons ad infinitum, otherwise I would've dropped it long ago.

The other thing I (probably) haven't made clear is that at the studio I take lessons at, they have very few newbies, and, apparently, nobody else looking to social dance. Most of the dancers there are doing competitions or shows, and when I take lessons I'm almost always (99% of the time) the only person on the floor doing bronze-level steps.

But at the group lessons I attended at other studios the situation seemed pretty much the same. There were very few people in the beginner group classes I was taking... and in the classes I was taking regularly it was the same 3-4 people month after month, and they had no interest at all in going out dancing. I've been told it's better in some of the other classes (Salsa and some of the International style dances), but those are the ones I've had much less interest in learning.

See, I don't have any idea what it's like anywhere else. I'm getting the impression that it's very different.


As others have said, if your local scene is very cliquey, it may be a good idea to go out of town to dance where people are less group oriented. You may have to cut down the number of nights you can go out, but if you get more dances that way, I'm sure it's worth it. Contacting DFers in the area you are going to is definitely a good idea.

It's a good suggestion, but lack of a car makes that difficult--plus the late hour that dances typically are held, and I have pets to take care of. It's already a challenge for me to trek back-and-forth to San Francisco, which is relatively easy compared to, say, Sacramento or Palo Alto/Sunnyvale. It seems like there should be plenty of places to go around here that are reachable via mass transit, but I keep getting the same few suggestions...

I'm sure there are also some occasional organized events (probably a lot of swing dances) but I haven't spent a lot of time checking this out. The couple I attended last year weren't a whole lot different than anything else I've tried--seemed like couples were showing up and spending the whole time dancing with each other.

One of the few truly "local" places I'm aware of is the UC Berkeley dance club, but the times I've gone it's been a very intimidating scene. The Allegro Ballroom is just down the road, but they're even worse. These places just do not seem open to welcoming beginners/new people with open arms, or anything even close. I also believe many of the studios around here are having financial issues--and with the situation the way it is, it's not hard to see why. Beginners get intimidated and give up before they can get started.

I really hope you will not have to give up dancing altogether, especially since you obviously enjoy it.

I plan on continuing to dance, but I obviously need to find some other approach to solving the whole "be around other people" thing... and I'll see how the competition goes. My current thought is that I'll end up going "social dancing" with one of the instructors I work with. It won't solve the clique problem, but at least I'll be out on the floor dancing, instead of watching or getting turned down... and it's a lot easier to ask other people and get turned down repeatedly when I know I'll have someone around to dance with.

It's not like I haven't gotten any feedback on what I'm doing, as I've gone out with an instructor watching (one of the instructors I work with also used to teach the free class before a social dance I regularly attended)--but for whatever reason it's just not working. I don't think it's a "personal problem" per se, though I can think of a few possibilities that might be turning some people off (in particular, long hair)... but it's not an attitude problem or otherwise on my part. I will happily dance with anyone who asks; it doesn't seem like that's true for anyone else around here, though.

[oh_the_humanity...]

I truly appreciate all the heartfelt support and advice. I'll spend more time looking at other places I can go around here, and it sounds like other people have run into the same sorts of problems so I'm not alone... and, there is hope--if I can find more amenable venue(s), and there may be other ways for me to just get out on the floor and dance.

I've decided learning to dance because I have some hope of social dancing is a mistake. I'll continue to do it beacuse I enjoy learning it--and if I can't get anywhere with the social dancing stuff, so be it, I still like learning it.

The main reason I started this discussion was to get a feel for what it was like for other people--I didn't expect any concrete suggestions (it's tough to tell someone over the 'net what they're doing wrong...). It sounds like most people's experiences are very different, which is very helpful for me to know.

[twnkltoz]

OTH, forgive me if you already stated this and I missed it, but where are you taking lessons, and where are you typically going for dances?

[Sagitta]

I agree it is tough to give advice without fully knowing someones circumstances, going only on what is written. 6 weeks without any dances sounds extreme. For me the problem last summer, 2003, when I started going out was frustration in myself and seeing that all whom I danced with with those bored expressions on their face. I would screw up the courage to dance with someone ECS and they wanted to do lindy and you could tell that!! A couple weeks of that and I had to take a couple privates to get my confidence back up there.

Tonight I was talking with a lady at the milonga in Geneva, NY. She said you know salsa. :? And then she said I taught her to salsa. (I don't think I do, but then I don't think I really know any dances. :oops: ) Anyway, that's all the excuse that I need to talk about dancing, what it means, conventions, having fun/bored, asking people for dances etc. (See I'm converting one person at a time.)

[oh_the_humanity...]

For me the problem last summer, 2003, when I started going out was frustration in myself and seeing that all whom I danced with with those bored expressions on their face.

Yeah, that's not fun at all... but I think that's a bit impolite on their part. (Though it's also pretty easy to misinterpret facial expressions, especially if you're feeling less than totally confident. Sometimes a bit of small talk livens things up... or a totally off-beat comment about how you were trying to dance Meringue with your dog but she never would get the hip action quite right... Sincere compliments help too.) I suppose people eventually get so jaded that if you're not dancing ultra-super-duper fancy stuff it's not very interesting. All I can say is, I sincerely hope I never get to that point.

The worst experience I had along those lines was during a slow waltz. About 30 seconds into the dance she said "this is way too basic for me" and just walked off. I'm a decent waltzer, but I'm strictly bronze level right now--and I guess that just wasn't "good enough". I didn't let it bother me personally, everyone's gotta start somewhere. But... sheesh, talk about rude. I can confidently say that's one mistake I'll never make.

The thing I don't understand is... I've had a ton of fun dancing with people who just learned a basic step or two and can barely stay on their feet--and I don't see that changing anytime soon. I guess everyone's motivations and likes are different.

I would screw up the courage to dance with someone ECS and they wanted to do lindy and you could tell that!!

Just tell them your shoes aren't tied very tight and you're afraid of kicking them off by doing a Charleston ;) (I actually did that once... kicked off my shoe, I mean. Fortunately there wasn't anyone in the path of the shoe :D And I learned I can still do swingouts in socks...)

Tonight I was talking with a lady at the milonga in Geneva, NY. She said you know salsa.

Sure, that's the funny red not-very-spicy stuff you get at Taco Bell... right? No, wait, that's Samba... :idea: oh, no, Samba's the white lion cartoon I watched as a kid... hmmm, maybe that was Salba? Samsa. Pah, I'm all confused now. :? :!:

I can never keep Salsa and Samba straight, and where Mamba, Mambo and Malba (Melba?) fit in is a total mystery. Though that's not as bad as when I start dancing Foxtrot steps to Tango music, or Waltz steps in Foxtrot SQQ and it works but I get dirty looks from my instructor...

"If you knew Salsa like I knew Salsa..."

(See I'm converting one person at a time.)

You can start your own army... but to really get anywhere, you'll have to teach them something more powerful than Salsa. The Charleston can probably be used to disable people. (That's actually what appealed to me about the Charleston--kicking.)

[tj]

Maybe I have totally a wrong impression, but all I picture is a guy sitting in the back of the club brooding and looking angry cuz he's not dancing enough. And in these sorts of cases, it will and has caused my female friends to come running over, in order to get me to dance with her instead of him.


You know, it's statements like these that make me regret ever asking anyone for any assistance whatsoever. Don't worry, I won't bother anyone here again.

tj, do you have any idea how totally self-aggrandizing that statement sounds? Seriously, I'm so glad you can "be there" and protect your friends from such evil and nasty people as myself.

Yep, that's right, I'm that nasty little greasy guy sitting in the back of the club, mumbling curse words under my breath as I glare menacingly at everyone else in the room and plot the demise of every male leader on the planet... pinning down unsuspecting women and screaming "why won't you dance with me?" as I stumble blindly across the room, tripping over my shoelaces... an exudate of alcohol, body odor and slime trailing behind.

If that image makes you feel better about yourselves, go for it.

sigh

All right, I was a d*ck for writing that. I apologize.

But the bottom line is that a lot of the women have to deal with weirdos and will sometimes write you off as one even if you're not.

And I think it's important to know how you come across even if you don't think you do.

[etchuck]

For me the problem last summer, 2003, when I started going out was frustration in myself and seeing that all whom I danced with with those bored expressions on their face.

The worst experience I had along those lines was during a slow waltz. About 30 seconds into the dance she said "this is way too basic for me" and just walked off. I'm a decent waltzer, but I'm strictly bronze level right now--and I guess that just wasn't "good enough". I didn't let it bother me personally, everyone's gotta start somewhere. But... sheesh, talk about rude. I can confidently say that's one mistake I'll never make.

The thing I don't understand is... I've had a ton of fun dancing with people who just learned a basic step or two and can barely stay on their feet--and I don't see that changing anytime soon. I guess everyone's motivations and likes are different.


Excuse me but this is the time where the phrase WHAT THE F??? :!: applies. (I really hope you got to look at the other thread I started about this on dancing with others (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=4804).)

I would screw up the courage to dance with someone ECS and they wanted to do lindy and you could tell that!!

Just tell them your shoes aren't tied very tight and you're afraid of kicking them off by doing a Charleston ;) (I actually did that once... kicked off my shoe, I mean. Fortunately there wasn't anyone in the path of the shoe :D And I learned I can still do swingouts in socks...)

Now if you were doing savoys, I'd tell people to wear helmets when dancing near you. ;)

I can never keep Salsa and Samba straight, and where Mamba, Mambo and Malba (Melba?) fit in is a total mystery. Though that's not as bad as when I start dancing Foxtrot steps to Tango music, or Waltz steps in Foxtrot SQQ and it works but I get dirty looks from my instructor...

"If you knew Salsa like I knew Salsa..."

There are enough people on the salsa board here who can fill you in on the relationship between mambo and salsa. Believe me, once you won't get samba and salsa confused.

When I started out, I assure you I did American Foxtrot and American Tango, and I always got the two confused. Now I get confused with American tango and International tango.

Actually, there are steps in waltz that do translate to foxtrot. Just that you might be getting a little ahead in the lesson plan if you knew that.

(See I'm converting one person at a time.)
You can start your own army... but to really get anywhere, you'll have to teach them something more powerful than Salsa. The Charleston can probably be used to disable people. (That's actually what appealed to me about the Charleston--kicking.)

Just wait until you learn aerials.

[Vin]

hi Humanity,
I am glad I read this post this week. Last night I went to a place by myself, which I normally don't like to do. I have noticed that going to a place by myself is like a crap-shoot, it can be really great or really suck.
As I was sitting there by myself I thought about this post and DECIDED that I was going to project the exact opposite image that tj had described.
Yes he was harsh but if you keep that image in your mind the next time you go out it will definitely keep you from wanting to project that image.
I started enjoying the music while I was sitting there by myself, not a few minutes passed before I was asked to dance, by probably the most attractive woman in the place and I ended up having a great night.(not with her unfortunately but dancing with in the club with various people)
Mind you I have never gotten asked to dance outside of my own scene and I rarely get approached by women. The main issue here was that I started to get into the music even though i was not dancing. It made all the difference in the world.

By the way, you can kick in salsa as well. In fact if you get used to it you can kick much higher than in charleston because it is not as fast.

[Vin]

sorry dbl post

[Chris Stratton]

I've been told it's better in some of the other classes (Salsa and some of the International style dances), but those are the ones I've had much less interest in learning.

I'm curious - which international style dances, and why the disinterest in learning them?

Obviously things vary by region, but there is a larger community in Boston that's social dancing is sort of powered by international style at it's core, even if it at times includes american style stuff for fun. Amercian style things may be under-appreciated, but a good route to being able to enjoy them in this setting is to study the locally popular style (international) and then add other ideas on that base.

That woman who so rudely walked out of the 'way too basic' waltz... what kind of stuff were you leading? I don't mean by trying to understand that to justify what she did, but I do think it might hypothetically be a more common offense in reaction to box-based studio american patterns than to the basic travelling pre-bronze international ones (which are also a valid basic in american style).

Or to put it differently - is it possible you've been learning the wrong (for a biased local setting) things within the dance families you are interested in? The reason I ask is that a lot of times what you get "sold" in some sorts of beginner training is fairly out of touch with what is being social danced at public events nearby.

[huey]

Hi oth,

Thanks for your continued posting. As you can see from the replies, you have sparked some interesting debates and comments.

Your comment -

When I say "be more social", I really mean "be in the same room with other people".

stands out.

I think you see being 'a loner' as a problem -
The ultimate issue is that I'm a loner
- and you are looking to social dancing to solve this 'problem'.

Have I got the right idea?

[Sagitta]

I've been told it's better in some of the other classes (Salsa and some of the International style dances), but those are the ones I've had much less interest in learning.

I'm curious - which international style dances, and why the disinterest in learning them?

Obviously things vary by region, but there is a larger community in Boston that's social dancing is sort of powered by international style at it's core, even if it at times includes american style stuff for fun. Amercian style things may be under-appreciated, but a good route to being able to enjoy them in this setting is to study the locally popular style (international) and then add other ideas on that base.


Well I like International rhumba. I'll do that any day over American, though I know more figures for American. American style dances are moe popular in my area, Ithaca, by the way, with ethe social dancing crowd.

[salsachinita]

On that train of thoughts here.......

I don't think being a loner is a problem, but being/feeling negative can be.

I am both a loner & a social butterfly. The way I see it, the dance scene to you is how you make it.........you can choose to put in/take part of as much, or as little as you wish.

Focusing on the positive (there has got to be a least one) aspects and find yourself a contented place within. People will be drawn to it (if they exist :roll: ).......then how far/close you'd let them get with you, is completely up to you.

[DWise1]

(pardon the multiple posts)

How do I delete a post?
From what I've observed, when you are logged on your own posts will have an edit button in the upper right-hand corner as well as the quote button that all posts have there. In addition, there's a smaller button in that group that's marked "X". That's the delete button (I've had to use it once when I accidentally hit "Quote" instead of "Edit").

[etchuck]

Obviously things vary by region, but there is a larger community in Boston that's social dancing is sort of powered by international style at it's core, even if it at times includes american style stuff for fun. Amercian style things may be under-appreciated, but a good route to being able to enjoy them in this setting is to study the locally popular style (international) and then add other ideas on that base.


Well I like International rhumba. I'll do that any day over American, though I know more figures for American. American style dances are moe popular in my area, Ithaca, by the way, with ethe social dancing crowd.[/quote]

Waiting for oth's reply....

The style thing is definitely a function of the local dance community. I started out in American rumba and switched over to learning more international as the "good" social dancers and the ballroom dance students here were more versed in international rumba. Now I can't help but do international (though I prefer starting in closed American frame rather than open, on the social floor).

Now my former dance partner who lives out near Pasadena complains to me she knows international rumba, but everyone she dances with does only American. Interestingly frustrating.