When they try to help...

[twnkltoz]

We had a good long thread a while back about why you should or shouldn't or how to help beginners in class. What about when you're on the other side of it? When someone offers you unsolicited advice, how do you handle it politely?

On the flip side again, for those of you who don't believe in helping/teaching your classmates, when they ask you questions while the teacher is talking, how do you handle it?

I'm just looking for different styles/viewpoints.

[Sagitta]

How about this? I always offer advice with this caveat...if you would just prefer to follow along with the class and get advice from the teacher just let me know. I did this yesterday night in ballroom class. For the cbl everyone was stepping forward in anticipation when the only signal they had for cbl was opening of my frame so that the person could pass through. I made sure that my hand was still where it would be in closed position doing the basic in the intermediate mambo. If a person is already stepping across me it looses most of the "swoosh" feeling of the cbl. Other things too such as extended arms, almost straight!!

If someone asks me while a teacher is talking I ask them to wait until he/she is done before I help them out.

[Laura]

When someone offers you unsolicited advice, how do you handle it politely?

This doesn't happen to me very often, and when it does it's usually from someone who feels they are in a position to give me advice -- and most of the time they are right. But every so often someone who thinks they know everything because they've taken a Level III group class and has never had a private lesson in their life or studied International Standard thinks they needs to explain things to me. If they say something that is actually helpful (I have enough experience to know what makes enough sense to be possibly helpful or not), in which case I try it and thank them. But the worst is when they start telling me things that don't make any sense what with all the dance training I've had. I ignore the comments at first, and most sensible people lay off after they've had their say. But once I danced with some guy who just would not shut up and I finally stopped him and said very sweetly "I'm so terribly sorry that my dancing disappoints you so much. Let's just end this right now because I'd hate to take away from your enjoyment of the evening." And then I walked away from the guy. Don't know what happened to him after that....

Oh, and then there was the guy who, the very first time I ever danced with him, stopped after the first step of our first feather and said "do you mind if I give you some feedback?" I wasn't warmed up, I hadn't even danced at all in two weeks, and it was the first time we'd ever danced together. So, I said "Yes, I do mind. I don't think it's fair of you to be making judgements about my dancing until we've at least gotten warmed up and a little more used to each other." The guy apologized -- and then immediately gave me his feedback anyway. I thought to myself "okay, you're more interested in having the last word than in giving me a chance to get settled and try it again." I don't know what happened to him after that, either...I used to see him around, but then he seemed to disappear from the scene.

On the flip side again, for those of you who don't believe in helping/teaching your classmates, when they ask you questions while the teacher is talking, how do you handle it?

If it's someone I know and I know it's a very short answer, I'll whisper it. If it's a longer answer, I'll say "it's a little complex, let's talk about it later." If I don't know the answer, or if it's someone I don't know or who has a lot of issues that need to be sorted out to get to the answer, I'll say "I think you'd better ask the teacher."

[blue]

When someone offers you unsolicited advice, how do you handle it politely?

Not as well as I should... the only thing I know is that pretending you do not hear anything does often not work, and then you'll have to communicate about it...

An old strategy that I bring with me from another world is to ask the teacher. Either the guy is right and I'll learn something, or he is told in front of me that he is wrong - in many cases that makes him shut up for a while. It depends on the class situation if this is possible at the very moment, though.

[Laura]

Oh, that's excellent Blue!

That's also a good tactic to take if people are askig you questions rather than paying attention: you just ask the question for them. Some people are awfully shy about asking the teachers.

[twnkltoz]

That reminds me of another related question...I was dancing Sunday night at a studio in the bay area, their so-called "Advanced Night," which didn't quite live up to the moniker. Anyway, there was this one ragingly horrible dancer who was throwing his partners all over the place and, yes, teaching them. He had one right in front of me at one point during V waltz, telling her how to do it...wrong! He had her stepping on the wrong foot for the direction they were turning. Oh, it was horrible. Anyway, I was trying to come up with what I would say if he asked me to dance. Like, "No thank you, I've seen the way you interact with your partners and I'd rather not." What do you think? I wouldn't care if he thought I was rude, but politeness is so ingrained in me that I probably couldn't make myself say that!

[Chris Stratton]

Debate the issues involved... it may or may not resolve anything between the participants, but the exercise almost always improves at least one person's understanding of the subject.

[twnkltoz]

Debate the issues involved... it may or may not resolve anything between the participants, but the exercise almost always improves at least one person's understanding of the subject.

You do this in the middle of classes and dances?

[Laura]

Anyway, I was trying to come up with what I would say if he asked me to dance. Like, "No thank you, I've seen the way you interact with your partners and I'd rather not." What do you think?

I like Chris's suggestion, but I personally would have to be feeling a little feisty to go for it.

Another idea is that you can take the Miss Manners approach of being exceptionally polite. For example, say "No thank you. I think that my approach and style would not be pleasing to you and I'd hate to waste your time this evening." The trick is to say it sweetly, sincerely, without sarcasm. They might spend the next ten minutes trying to figure out what you meant....

[sunderi]

We had a good long thread a while back about why you should or shouldn't or how to help beginners in class. What about when you're on the other side of it? When someone offers you unsolicited advice, how do you handle it politely?

On the flip side again, for those of you who don't believe in helping/teaching your classmates, when they ask you questions while the teacher is talking, how do you handle it?

I'm just looking for different styles/viewpoints.

I always ask them to wait until the teacher has stopped talking.

If their advice is good, I listen and try it. If it's worthless (from someone who just thinks they know everything about everything) I just say, "Oh, really? Thanks." and ignore it. Usually they can't tell the difference between me following their advice & not, anyway. ;)

[etchuck]

If it were in a class setting, I'd say defer to the instructor as much as you are able to.

If you know the person you're dancing with, that may be a different matter. If it's someone who is credible, that has taken a number of lessons, that is well experienced, and is PATIENT, then I'll be very willing to understand what he/she is saying.

In general, though I will tell the women I'm dancing with to tell me if they think anything feels wrong or if they know I'm not doing something clearly with my leads. I'd rather they give me feedback (see the thread about Teaching the Teachers and how I like Socratic methods) because then they are truly engaged in learning how to dance. If a follower wants to tell me how to do something under that context, then I'll engage in a friendly discussion and work the kinks out.

Basically be courteous without being domineering. Usually asking questions takes a lot of that confrontational edge off.

[Chris Stratton]

If it were in a class setting, I'd say defer to the instructor as much as you are able to.

When the information offered seems really "out there" in terms of the impressions I've formed from other sources, I tend to want to ask enough questions to determine that they really mean what it sounds like they are saying - that it's not simply a miscommunication. Once that's done I'm usually quite eager to drop the issue until I can look for supporting or clarifying (or contrasting) information outside of class.

[ShyDancer]

I have had it happen in class settings a few times and many many times at social dances.

In class I simply say, "well lets wait for {Teacher} to come over and she can sort it out" . Works everytime.

Socially its not so easy, but thankfully there is only 1 person who does it and has no idea what he is talking about, I no longer dance with him.
But for the most part as a bronze level dancer I will welcome someone talking me through a new step, the only thing I have real issues with is people that criticise the figures I know, If my teacher tells me Im doing it correctly then Im sure not going to listen to someone who doesnt attend classes or is a teacher themselves.

As for helping class mates, I will only help them if they ask me, and even then I will give them the exact advice the teacher has already given, then I will tell them that I use certain cues or words to remember what comes next and to try and find their own special cues to work with.

[sunderi]

As for helping class mates, I will only help them if they ask me, and even then I will give them the exact advice the teacher has already given, then I will tell them that I use certain cues or words to remember what comes next and to try and find their own special cues to work with.

I try to do the same thing -- if someone asks, I try to keep my advice to "well, the instructor had suggested this". I know enough to know that I don't know enough to really help anyone -- unless it's a question that is very straightforward, like, "do we go forward or to the side here?". I'll answer those kinds of questions, if I know the answer.

[twnkltoz]

I try to do the same thing -- if someone asks, I try to keep my advice to "well, the instructor had suggested this". I know enough to know that I don't know enough to really help anyone -- unless it's a question that is very straightforward, like, "do we go forward or to the side here?". I'll answer those kinds of questions, if I know the answer.

Totally appropriate.