A Question on Salsa Footwork

[Vince A]

Salsa is a newer dance to me, and I have a private lesson at 7 tonight. Had a question . . .

I don't think I will ever compete, more or less just hardcore social dancing the Salsa, so is "turnout" or straight ahead more correct for the foot position if I'm just social dancing???

I know we've covered this before, but if I remember correctly, it was on the Cha Cha??? Not sure though . .

Quick answer SDsalsaguy or salsarhythms

[SDsalsaguy]

I don't think I will ever compete, more or less just hardcore social dancing the Salsa, so is "turnout" or straight ahead more correct for the foot position if I'm just social dancing???
Since you're talking purely social, I don't think that "correct" is even an issue...correct for what? Having fun?

That being said, its not just turnout but also use of foot pressure through the inside edge of the foot that produces the hip motion often seen in salsa. BUT...keep in mind that there are any # of styles of salsa, some without this element.

Sorry for not providing a more definitive response, but I hope this proved useful nonetheless.

[Vince A]

Thanks SDsalsaguy,

I think you answered what I was looking for . . . the hip motion . . . even if social dancing, at least I want to look correct, but not have to worry about it!

[msc]

I agree with SD. Hip action isn't unbelievably necessary, especially for guys.

BTW, if you have really good center tone, you'll find that the foot tends to lineup with the rib cage. Thus if you execute your topline motions properly, your feet will automatically turn out. But again, ribcage motion really isn't particularly necessary for social salsa.

[DanceMentor]

From a balance perspective, when standing stationary with one foot forward, surely turnout is better.

Hip motion always looks better with turnout. To get the full effect, try turning your toes in and showing hip motion. It's pretty comical.

That's a good point msc makes about the ribs also.

[salsarhythms]

Hey Vince,

I'll be honest with you here...competing aside, I think salsa
has to be danced from the inside.

Yeah we can go on and on with foot placement, hand placement,
balance, size of steps, and on and on...

But salsa, mambo, is all inside, it's all about the music, it's
about the hips, it's about being sexy....

Achieve that, and it won't matter what style you're dancing
to...

[youngsta]

Man salsarhythms, I'm sooooooo glad you said that! Seems to me you get that technical with salsa and you're losing out on the joy of the dance.

[pygmalion]

I agree.

Right now, only in rumba and salsa can I just dance what I feel.

No disrespect, but I don't worry about the technique when I'm doing salsa. I just dance what I feel, and have fun.

[salsarhythms]

Hey Youngsta...

Yeah salsa can be very technical...and I too get technical
about it, but the truth is, if it's being done socially, then
it does not need to be...

Take a look for example at a Timing course that I produce.

Yes, you can go and get a degree in music and have no need
for a timing course, but then again who has the time to get
so technically involved...

When you look at it from that point of view, you will begin
to stress out a LOT LESS and enjoy the music and the dance
a LOT MORE...I'm glad you saw my point...=)

[youngsta]

I definitely understand. When I'm doing privates or attending workshops I'm all about learning the correct technical movements...and I practice that way. Once I'm in the club it's all about feeling the music and complementing my partners the best way possible! Hopefully the muscle memory from practicing has me dancing 'technically correct', but it doesn't matter as long as I'm feeling it and having fun.

[pygmalion]

Amen, Youngsta.

Actually, when I was younger, I studied classical music, so I tend to be pretty stuffy when it comes to music, timing, and other technical stuff.

But when I go to a club, it's time to relax and have fun. Then the good stuff comes out.

[Vince A]

Many thanks to all of you,

For now . . . Salsa is a 'fun' dance, yet since I do compete in every other dance that I do, I may, one day, enter a Salsa competition.

I "feel" the rhythm . . . I "feel" the sexuality of the dance, so if everything else is ok, and I do decide to compete, what happens with all those bad habits I acquired while learning? Hence my question . . . or should I not worry about it now?

Remember, I DO compete! I DO learn quickly, but once in "my computer," it is very difficult to break a habit.

[SDsalsaguy]

Many thanks to all of you,

For now . . . Salsa is a 'fun' dance, yet since I do compete in every other dance that I do, I may, one day, enter a Salsa competition.

I "feel" the rhythm . . . I "feel" the sexuality of the dance, so if everything else is ok, and I do decide to compete, what happens with all those bad habits I acquired while learning? Hence my question . . . or should I not worry about it now?

Remember, I DO compete! I DO learn quickly, but once in "my computer," it is very difficult to break a habit.
That was actually the thought process behind my initial response to you Vince. Your actual question was about taking a lesson, which is, perhaps, one of the only settings in which the technical side of it should come into focus. That aside, however, you know that I agree with all the soul-dance comments that everyone else is making...also why I specifically pointed out that there was no technique for having fun!

salsarhythms...great to have you back with us! And, as far as you, youngsta, and pygmalion are concerned...AMEN!

[youngsta]

Speaking of bad habits Vince. I've developed a few 'quirks' in my salsa (I won't call them bad habits since they don't actually detract from my dancing, but they're not 'normal') The primary one being an almost imperceptible kick of my left foot between the 2 and 3 counts. There's nothing technically correct about it, but you know what? Everyone comments on how they love that part of my style. It's me...my very own, very personal sabor.

[salsarhythms]

A few things here...

Youngsta...that does not sound like a bad habit at all...it
sounds like you're taking salsa and making it your own,
in your own style...Two Thumbs Up on that one...

Vince...Just like with any art form, there are technical
foundations that must be present in order to achieve
greatness...yes the fundamentals must be there, but
eventually you must step out of the mold, and make it
your own...Remember, all competition is an expression
of whatever art form you practice (dance, martial arts,
whatever) based on specific rules and specifications that
were put together by people you will never meet...again
it's just another mold, but even with that, remember to
get out of the mold every once in a while...

Sd, thanks for the welcome back...

[pygmalion]

I'm not sure where to post this, but, technically speaking, it is a salsa question.

I'm setting my dance goals for the next year, and want to know. Has anyone in this forum ever attended a salsa "bootcamp" run by a married couple in southern California? (See the lengths I go to to keep things uncommercialized? :) )

If so, what did you think? Thumbs up? Thumbs down? Worth the plane fare from Florida?

Thanks.

[SDsalsaguy]

I take it you mean Edie "The Salsa Freak" Lewis & Al "Liquid Silver" Espinoza's boot camp, yes?

[youngsta]

I haven't done Edie and Al's bootcamp, but I have done a workshop with them. They're very cool people and great to learn from.

[Vince A]

Speaking of bad habits Vince. I've developed a few 'quirks' in my salsa (I won't call them bad habits since they don't actually detract from my dancing, but they're not 'normal') The primary one being an almost imperceptible kick of my left foot between the 2 and 3 counts. There's nothing technically correct about it, but you know what? Everyone comments on how they love that part of my style. It's me...my very own, very personal sabor.
I see hatkick a lot, and I like it . . . it's a bad habit, I'll take it!

As far as everyone's contribution to this . . . thanks . . . I think it was said . . . fun or technical? Take your pick!

[Vince A]

Speaking of bad habits Vince. I've developed a few 'quirks' in my salsa (I won't call them bad habits since they don't actually detract from my dancing, but they're not 'normal') The primary one being an almost imperceptible kick of my left foot between the 2 and 3 counts. There's nothing technically correct about it, but you know what? Everyone comments on how they love that part of my style. It's me...my very own, very personal sabor.
I see hatkick a lot, and I like it . . . it's a bad habit, I'll take it!

As far as everyone's contribution to this . . . thanks . . . I think it was said . . . fun or technical? Take your pick!

I think I meant to write "I see that kick" . . . sorry. . . I'm still PO about the Black Sheep vs d nice thing . . . it's affecting my writing!

[SDsalsaguy]

I think I meant to write "I see that kick" . . . sorry. . . I'm still PO about the Black Sheep vs d nice thing . . . it's affecting my writing! But this is salsa land Vince! And as long as you don't start an on1 vs. on2 or salsa vs. mambo debate, it's all love here :lol:

[youngsta]

You aren't lying SD! :lol:

[pygmalion]

I take it you mean Edie "The Salsa Freak" Lewis & Al "Liquid Silver" Espinoza's boot camp, yes?


Yes, that's the boot camp I'm talking about. Just trying to be subtle.

The advertisements look great, but, since I have to fly acorss the country to get there, I need to make sure I'm not wasting the money. Words of wisdom, anyone?

Is it worth the time and money?

[salsarhythms]

Honestly, I've never been to one of their bootcamps, but
they have such an excellent reputation.

They are both great dancers, they really complement each other
well, and like I said, I've heard nothing but great things about
them, so if you can swing it...go for it...

Of course, that's what I would do because I always find something
that I can point to and say "You know, that made it all worth it".

Just my 2 cents...

[SDsalsaguy]

Yes, that's the boot camp I'm talking about. Just trying to be subtle.
No need for such a thing here...we're about dancing plain and simple, right? I've never taken from them so can't say...as salsarhythms points out though, they have a fantastic reputation. Also, form all of her writing I have to say that, philosophically, I like where Edie's coming from regarding dancing. Since I don't know the price, however, its much, much harder to even guess at if it's "worth" it. How much is airfare, accommodations, the boot camp itself? What other training, with less travel related costs, could you get closer to home for the same amount? Or is this a treat to yourself that something more local just wouldn’t meet? Also note how much of the time you're actually dancing (either in lesson time or at the club" with them vs. with others at the club you choose. Just some thoughts…

[FYI, I had tried contacting Edie about her boot camp once, several years back, but never heard back from her. I never did try following up though, so who knows…]

[pygmalion]

Yeah.

Lots of good points. There are some very good ballroom teachers here in Orlando, but very few salsa-specific teachers. If I don't hear otherwise from folks on this forum or other bulletin boards, I think I'll go to Edie's class.

I'll keep you posted, and give a review on the bootcamp.

Jenn

[SDsalsaguy]

Also, if you're going to be out in the LA area anyway, I strongly encourage you to see if you can arrange some lesson with Enio and/or Terryl at Lets Dance LA (http://www.letsdancela.com). I know that I must sound like I'm on their payroll or something, but I swear to G-d I'm not. :wink:

Check out, for instance, what Edie has to say about them (http://www.dancefreak.com/interviews/enio_cordoba_and_terryl_jones.htm). They may also be ideally suited to help you use your ballroom knowledge to enhance your salsa (as you can see in Edie's interview with them). As long as you're spending the money to come all the way out here, why not get the extra bang for your travel buck, right?

[pygmalion]

Thanks. I'll try to coordinate the two.

If anybody else has suggestions of can't-miss West coast dance stuff to do, I'd greatly appreciate. I'll try to set up a weekend or week-long trip that maximizes my dance experience.

Thanks to all.

Jenn

[youngsta]

Jenn how's the salsa scene in Orlando?

[pygmalion]

It's lots of fun, but definitely not cutting edge.
A few really hot clubs where everybody goes. And a few good teachers. But I still want to learn more, and think I can get it in NY or LA.

That said, if you decide to visit Orlando, drop me a line. I'll try to hook you up. :D

Jenn

[youngsta]

I'll actually be going to Melbourne 9-11 September (for work--flying into Orlando and driving) and wanted to check out a spot in Orlando the night of the 10th (Weds I think), you'll have to let me know the spot/s to check out!

[pygmalion]

Melbourne is quite a drive, but if you survive the hour-plus drive to Orlando, the best Salsa places to go are the Samba Room on West Sand Lake Road or the Latin Quarter at Universal Citywalk.

If you want, I can check specific opening times, etc, and get you directions.

Both places are much fun. The Samba room is geared toward local Hispanics -- lots of cliques, but usually a live band and you can get a dance -- gorgeous women!

Latin Quarter is more geared toward tourists, but, for one entry price, you can check out all the clubs on the artificial boardwalk. There's a pop club, a reggae club, a Latin club, an R&B club, and others. Your call.

There are other, smaller clubs, but these two places are hot most nights of the week.

Send me a pm if you need more info.
Let me know. I'll get more info, if you need it,.


Jenn

[nobodaddy]

I took it and it was great! That lady can move and she can TEACH! They are a beautiful couple--attentive, personable and professional. You will get a lot out of it.

Edie will teach/drill you for about 4 hours with her instruction geared to your skill level. Then she and Al will take you out to dinner, and then a nite's dancing.

I had a blast, learned a lot, and met two fantastic people.

[pygmalion]

Wow! Thanks for the input. :D Everybody else here had heard good things, but it's good to have somebody who's really been there.

I'm trying to coordinate a trip in December, if Edie's not on vacation then. Trying to schedule quite a few things in a one- to two- week period. I hope I can schedule some time with edie.
Thanks for your help. :D :D


Jenn

[ketchup]

Hi, can I borrow this thread for my question about footwork? I am a male, but this question is about female's foot work. (on 2, --- 123, 567 version)

It's about SINGLE R turn. Usually guys start turning you somewhere between 1 and 2, or 2, I believe. But when the guy wants to do something himself on 2 and 3 (example, R hook turn), he starts turning you on somewhere between 8 and 1, just like leading you into multiple spins. (so no stepping forward happening on 1 with R on women's part). In that case, since you are already back in your original position on 2, you have 4 beats worth of time (2, 3, and 5) before you break back on 6.

My question is, during these 2, 3 (4 or and whatever), 5 , are you actually stepping in place L (2), R(3) and L (5) --- and back break with your R on 6? Or are you just keeping timing with your waist (rib cage?) action?
Or you simply keep timing in your head, do whatever you want, and then break back on 6?

I think they are all ok, but which one would you recommend to a female beginner?

[squirrel]

:) Salsarhythms, I completely agree with you! Salsa is coming from the soul... from the heart... you must feel it to dance it!

I had the opportunity of meeting a Puerto-Rican who's been dancing for 40 years... man, he can move!!!! Unbelievable... so smooth... so nice to look at!

Let me tell you that when he danced the whole club where we go applauded him and his wife! They were just great! And nothing fancy... they didn't put on a show... they just liked the song and danced to it! :)

I sure am glad I met him!

So, rules are fine... as long as you don't let them take over the dance...

[SDsalsaguy]

rules are fine... as long as you don't let them take over the dance...
Very, very well said squirrel :!:

[borikensalsero]

Hi, can I borrow this thread for my question about footwork? I am a male, but this question is about female's foot work. (on 2, --- 123, 567 version)

It's about SINGLE R turn. Usually guys start turning you somewhere between 1 and 2, or 2, I believe. But when the guy wants to do something himself on 2 and 3 (example, R hook turn), he starts turning you on somewhere between 8 and 1, just like leading you into multiple spins. (so no stepping forward happening on 1 with R on women's part). In that case, since you are already back in your original position on 2, you have 4 beats worth of time (2, 3, and 5) before you break back on 6.

My question is, during these 2, 3 (4 or and whatever), 5 , are you actually stepping in place L (2), R(3) and L (5) --- and back break with your R on 6? Or are you just keeping timing with your waist (rib cage?) action?
Or you simply keep timing in your head, do whatever you want, and then break back on 6?

I think they are all ok, but which one would you recommend to a female beginner?

For a beginner its always best if they keep timing by stepping, just so the dancer gets used to the beats, numbers, and what should be happening with feet/hands/hips/etc. After that, it really doesn't matter what the dancer uses to keep time.

I either use my hands as they move in the air, the music itself, the hips as you've stated, the other person's steps, after the dancer has gotten used to what every part of your body should be doing, then go ahead and break the norm and do as you wish.

It is always good to have a solid foundation, and an understanding of the body and the music are doing before you go ahead and experiment. So, she can side break, or back step. If the guy is doing his own thing and needs space, she can back step, if he is grooving, then she can side step, or wiggle her butt, or play with the beats of the music, anything she likes.

[ketchup]

For a beginner its always best if they keep timing by stepping, just so the dancer gets used to the beats, numbers, and what should be happening with feet/hands/hips/etc. After that, it really doesn't matter what the dancer uses to keep time.

Thanks a lot, Boriken! :D Although I asked this question originally in order to help a friend of mine, who has just started to dance on 2, I think I should keep this in mind myself as well. I started to "cheat" or "fake" the steps from the day one I started dancing, and NOW I AM PAYING A BIG PRICE for that... time to go back to basics and unlearn bad habits...

[squirrel]

rules are fine... as long as you don't let them take over the dance...
Very, very well said squirrel :!:

thanks SD! :oops:

This is the way I perceive salsa... even though I'm what you might call 'an intellectual dancer'... :roll: :oops: :)