Biomechanics and Lindy Hop: A natural teaching method.

[d nice]

There are numerous methods and techniques to teaching dance. Can any of them truly be called superior over another? Yes and no. Use of the correct method for the correct person is superior but no technique works for all students all the time.

Part of being a good teacher is knowing this and being able to change your teaching method to fit your student(s).

There are certain methods that tend to produce results quickly. They apparently lay at opposite ends of the spectrum but with experience can be combined to produce a method the largest group of people will respond to and achieve resutls that are not only quick but will not contradict what they will learn five years down the line.

The first method is what I term as "strict tempo". A very "ballroom approach, if you will forgive the use of the term. Every count has a specific step associated with it, rhythm is king, and there is a right and wrong place to step which includes angles and weight percentages. It provides very easy answers to where a person needs to be and when they need to be there.

The second method is what I term as "relational positioning". It is a very vernacular approach. The patterns are seen as several movements strung together. The partners learn that where their bodies are in relation to each other is primary. Body movement dictates what type of footwork/placement is used. There is little in the way of questions that tend to be encountered with this method since the only "wrong" step is one that ignores your partner and their movement.

Some people NEED numbers and order, others NEED organic movement and are comfortable with abstract thought. The first is a very intelelctual approach, the second a very physical approach.

[d nice]

Emphasizing that your partner is what is important... not yourself, ensures the focus is properly placed on their movement not your own. A leader's body movement is dictated by what he wishes his follow to do. The followers body movement is dictated by the actions the leader takes. It is a complicated interaction and deviation results in immediate break down of communication between the partners.

If the follow responds incorrectly to the leader's body movement it is of fundamental importance that the leader shift his movement to accomadate for where the follower is now and where she is going, NOT where she was suppossed to be.

The idea that your step placement is dictated by your body movement, and your body movement is dictated by your partners body movement ensures a "self-correcting" method of dancing that usually takes months if not years of dancing to achieve in hours.

[d nice]

Using various fomulas or mnemonics that students can learn and rely on puts their minds at ease. It is important that they are taught in one of two ways, either as underlying principles in the dance, which case they need to be internally consistant with all basic movements of the dance and all standard patterns. There are always exceptions, but if you can find a number of of them then it is not an underlying principle. It instead is a guideline that operates on a class of moves or movements.

Examples:
If the leader wishes to move the follower he needs to move his own center in that direction first. This is an underlying principle in the Lindy Hop.

The leader always steps X on count Y. This is a guidelines for a class of move/pattern.

Let's take this out of the hypothetical and deal with a real world example.

The swing out, the lindy hop basic, has three basic variations, with a near infinite number of flavors, the Swing out from Closed, the swingout from open, and the lindy circle. It is generally taught with ten steps in a step-step, triple-step, step-step, triple-step rhythm. Six count moves are generally taught with eight steps in a step-step, triple-step, triple-step rhythm. A underlying principle that a teacher could share with their students is that the leader's center dictates which direction he wants his follow to travel in. This will cause the leader to always move his body first not his arm, when leading and it covers both rhythms with no need to make adjustments.

The first step-step is a prep and follow through used to create momentum and direction.

The first triple step is used to change direction of momentum. Regular turns follow this, as do moves like passes and the swing out variations.

The second step-step is a follow through of the momentum in the new direction dictated by the first triple. While six count moves do not possess this step-step it is importatn to note that the rule is not broken by them, they just do not possess the step therefor no need to apply this rule.

The second triple is a distance modifier. This can be applied in one of two ways, when the partners are in closed position at this point they are modifying their position on the floor, how much distance they travel in the direction dictated by the first triple step, and when the partners are moving away from each other because of the first triple they are modifying the distance between themselves.

[d nice]

Combining these together...

Emphasizing that Lindy Hop is a dance based on natural movement is important. It should have a natural "bounce". Not exaggerated and not a glide, but the same kind of bounce as when you play sports or jog. Watch basketball players for an ideal type of movement. Their motion is incredibly smooth, but if you watch they flex their legs, bodies sinking into the ground and pushing out of it. Thsi "bounce" is characteristic in all athletic endeavors and in African dance from which lindy hop body movement is a direct descendant. The human body moves like this naturally for a reason. The wya our legs bend as well as how they rotate within the pelvis causes the body to "flex" and "bounce" into a position that allows rapid changes of direction. Weight should be on the "forward" part of the foot, centered around the ball of the foot.

Attempting to dance "smoothly" with no bobbing of the head or in an upright postion is against the way our bodies are intended to move. There is a reason why finishing schools must train their students to move without a bounce.

[pygmalion]

Part of being a good teacher is knowing this and being able to change your teaching method to fit your student(s).


I'm not a teacher, but as a student, I agree with this completely. My first teacher(s) tended to emphasize the learning by rote -- just do the pattern a million times until it falls into place. They did this because that's what most of their students wanted.

But, for me, it was very frustrating. I needed a logical context for what I was being taught, and I needed to connect concepts together in a way that made sense to me. I'll never forget the day I asked my teacher why a particular pattern was called "flirtation turns". He looked at me like I was from Mars. From his perspective, just do the step. But I needed to know what was flirtatious, to be able to do the step. Two completely different appraoches.

I think the secret of being effective with different students is being flexible in your approach.

[Swing Kitten]

This makes a lot of sense.

I'm a huge fan of conceptual learning (give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime). I would much rather take a little longer to learn something and be able to find a true understanding of its concepts than to proceed very quickly learning only what I need to know for the moment to end up lost when the first deviation occurs.

While my beliefs hold true for many sujects of learning I feel this is particularly important in dance but even a little bit more so for followers. We have only indirect (or relfective) control of the dance and it is hardly ever 'the way I learned it' and it is our job to go with it. Knowing such underlying principles helps me move from leader to leader ready to listen to what he has to say through his dance and learn something both about him and about the dance and what it can do.

Thank you, I would like to hear more.

[pygmalion]

My new coach is so great with what you call "conceptual learning", or, in his case, conceptual teaching. And I find myself internalizing concepts a lot more effectively, catching my own mistakes, understanding how a particular technique applies in different contexts, and on and on.

My coach and I spend probably a third or more of our lesson time talking about concepts, then I can go home and practice more effectively, because I know what to practice and how to practice. And since we don't just talk, but also dance, I also know how it feels when I'm practicing a given move right or wrong.

This approach really works well for me.

Thanks for the information, d nice. Any more thoughts you have will be much appreciated.

[Vince A]

d nice,
Thanks, man . . . I really enjoyed this . . . I read it all twice.
Something you mentioned . . .


"If the follow responds incorrectly to the leader's body movement it is of fundamental importance that the leader shift his movement to accomadate for where the follower is now and where she is going, NOT where she was suppossed to be. "

"The idea that your step placement is dictated by your body movement, and your body movement is dictated by your partners body movement ensures a "self-correcting" method of dancing that usually takes months if not years of dancing to achieve in hours."


Absolutely!
Following learning to count in the 8's (with the music) instead of 6's for WCS . . . this IS, without a doubt, the most important thing that I have learned.

Once I grasped this and was able to do it . . . my dancing went through the roof. To me . . . this is one of the major differences between a newcomer or novice dancer and an intermediate to advanced dancer, albeit many int/adv dancers also don't this!

If my lead is "off" ever so slightly, and the follower misses it and does something else, I catch it "right now," adjust immediately, and make a move out of it! I never miss a "stroke."

You should do a item just on this info . . . it would help so many!

[Swing Kitten]

You should do a item just on this info . . . it would help so many!

Depending on what you mean by "a item" I think he just did! WooHoo!

[Vince A]

Yes he did, and I printed it out. This stuff is 'gold.'

I mean just the part about 'adjusting' . . . there is a lot more that could be said, and I know he's the man to do it!

[d nice]

Conceptual learning will produce the best results in dancers. The question is are you trying to teach someone to dance, or get them to get out on the floor once or twice?

If you want to get them on the floor all that is necessary is teach them enough moves that they feel "confident" that they won't freeze. The technique behind the moves is pretty unimportant. The problem is that while they may get on the floor, they will develop all sorts of bad habits, most without ever even knowing it.

Conceptual learning allows a student to grasp the fundamental connection between what is being demonstrated in the step being worked on and see applications throughout the dance.

Counting itself to me is often times counterproductve. While music is a form of mathmatics so is pool. No one carries around scientific calculators to hussle a table. Counting can be useful when you first learn to dance, but its like training wheels, eventually you have to abandon it or it holds you back. Learning to hear the phrasing is more important than counting out your steps (the 8 of the two bars as Vince said). Learning to recognize the two beat unit that creates the superstructure of the song is the key to rhythmic freedom.

[d nice]

In order to make adjustments as a leader you have to do one very important thing... pay attention to your follower.

This does not mean making eye contact, or even looking at her (a common misconception). I have ssen people look their partner right in the eye and lead her all over the place with no regard to where she is, how she is moving, or where she was last moving to.

Paying attention means putting her first. Before you lead her notice where her weight is. Is she moving or at rest? If she is at rest you need to shift her weight so she moves with the appropriate foot. If she is moving you need to pay attention to how muchmomentum she has, is she increasing or decreasing her speed, what path is she following? You need to pay attention to her distance to you and how much tension is between your bodies.

[Vince A]

Counting itself to me is often times counterproductve. While music is a form of mathmatics so is pool. No one carries around scientific calculators to hussle a table. Counting can be useful when you first learn to dance, but its like training wheels, eventually you have to abandon it or it holds you back. Learning to hear the phrasing is more important than counting out your steps (the 8 of the two bars as Vince said). Learning to recognize the two beat unit that creates the superstructure of the song is the key to rhythmic freedom.
Exactly . . . and that's what I was trying to get out of the comment. I wanted others to ask about it . . . then the comeback would be as you stated!

So many people DO count, as is evidenced by watching their lips count out the count. Most will do this for years, until they, well do what you said . . . "Learn to hear the phrasing". . . and knowing where you are all the time, without counting.

Since you mentioned "superstructure of the song," I was wondering (if you Cha Cha or Salsa) what count do you break on? I always figured that since CT 2 is the upbeat, you should be moving forward, or upward, onward, whatever, on CT 2. If I boke on CT 1, my next step (Cha Cha) would be backward on the next CT (2) and not on the upbeat!

Your perspective? We've been here before on this subject.

[pygmalion]

So many people DO count, as is evidenced by watching their lips count out the count. Most will do this for years, until they, well do what you said . . . "Learn to hear the phrasing". . . and knowing where you are all the time, without counting.


I don't want to get off on a tangent, and I freely give the disclaimer that partner dancing and formation dancing are two completely different things.

But while we're on the subject of counting, I agree with Vince A. Really good dancers feel the music -- the beginning and ending points. The openings and closings. The phrases. Counting becomes irrelevant.

But, in a performance situation where you have to be there on cue, if you can't feel it, please count. I can't tell you how many times I've been performing with a formation team where people couldn't feel the cues, and wouldn't count either. You should've seen me yelling out 5,6,7,8 in the middle of a performance to get people back together. In retrospect, comical. But at the time, very frustrating.

[d nice]

The whol idea that you must break on a specific count is a very western european thing. Afro-cuban dance is of course based on african movement and precussion. You break were the music says to break.

Now if you are dancing to "strict tempo" music it is easy to say break here... but this is all latin stuff.

Swing music is a bit different. You have two forms of music in Swing (note capitol "S") standard or AABA and 12 Bar Blues. Because if its jazz there are general guidelines rather than hard and fast rules about what is going to happen where. These makes it dificult to set an arbitrary standard about what needs to happen when. The musicians purposefully push and pull beats truncating and elongating notes, begining and ending of phrase.

This is where familiarity with the two beat unit (up and down beat) will allow you to create in the moment without ignoring the structure of the song (something I see all the time in WCS and becoming more prevelant in Lindy Hop).

[d nice]

I don't want to get off on a tangent, and I freely give the disclaimer that partner dancing and formation dancing are two completely different things.

But while we're on the subject of counting, I agree with Vince A. Really good dancers feel the music -- the beginning and ending points. The openings and closings. The phrases. Counting becomes irrelevant.

But, in a performance situation where you have to be there on cue, if you can't feel it, please count. I can't tell you how many times I've been performing with a formation team where people couldn't feel the cues, and wouldn't count either. You should've seen me yelling out 5,6,7,8 in the middle of a performance to get people back together. In retrospect, comical. But at the time, very frustrating.

We can explore this more in a different thread if you want, but I have two things to say about this. "formation" dancing, for that matter any choreography follows compeltely different rules. It isn't social dancing. The second is that if you don't know where you belong and when and aren't capable of finding your place if you get lost you don't belong on a team.

[Vince A]

I think we are talking about two different "breaks" here . . . one in Swing, or most dancing, is "break" in the music, and yes the music dictates that expression! 100%! Then hitting that break! Right?

However, there had been a huge discussion here about the Counts 1 and 2 in Salsa and the Cha Cha, and what the feet are doing at this point. Mainly, we are talking abut the L foot for the lead . . counting 1-2-3-4-&-1-2-3-4-& so on! I step R on 1, and break @ on my L, etc. Most feel that htis is not necessary as long as the beat dictates what you do. I agree to a point, however I was "dinged" a point or two in a competition where I got off the music and stepped Forward 2 on count 1.

Is this apples and oranges and worth the discussion? I just wanted your 'musical' knowledge take on this.

This to me is getting off topic, but can be compared to stepping back on Count 1 for the lead in WCS. It's a given. Same for Salsa or Cha?

[d nice]

Actually it is always the music that is suppossed to dictate when and where you are going to go.

You are talking about ballroom latin... a completely different animal. Watch the clips of old mambo dancers in the 50's and you'll notice they aren't breaking on the same count through out the song but shifting as the music dictates.

West Coast used to not require a step back on one... nothing was "required". As it has become more and more of a competition dance certain "standards" have been placed on it that the old timers would never have thought about.

Today it is hard to find dancers in this country who do the old vernacular (street/folk) style of the latin dances. Ballroom has become too popular and it has left its mark on dancers, even those who have never stepped inside a studio. West Coast is quickly becoming the same sadly. Over-intellectualization of the dance is restricting its creativtiy.

[Vince A]

Keep the info coming . . . I enjoy reading and learning . . . as much as you and Joe bump heads, the two of you do supply great info!

I guess that things do evolve, especially in dance. If things didn't evolve, we'd be having this conversation by letter and a stamp . . . smoke signals . . . drums . . . guttural verbiage!

[d nice]

I wouldn't use the word evolove...

How about "change"?

Evolution implies that the changes are an improvement. While change doesn't carry any implications about better or worse.

[Vince A]

I still like the "evolution" theory . . . I remember doing the Jitterbug with my Mom back when I was 10 years old through about age 19. I certainly am a better dancer now, than I was back then. Is that not an improvement?

Yes, I know, I'm comparing WCS and ECS to Jitterbug, and dancing with my Mom versus a partner, and inexperience versus experienced. But she was the NY State champion, so she says, and I really enjoyed dancing back then . . . she was good. I turned out to be better . . . so I say!

[salsarhythms]

d nice...

Excellent points.

The breaks should be dictated by the song.
Each song has its own story, and the dance
should reflect that...

Personally, I do recommend the counting for someone
who is having problems with the music...I'm not familiar
with Swing, but a lot of what you says applies across
the board...

[pygmalion]

I agree, salsarhythms.

Counting is unnecessary for advanced students and dancers, but, sometimes, counting is the only way to go. That's why I told my formation story. Sometimes, with new dancers or people who have no musical background, counting is the only way to go.

"Feeling" the music and understanding phrasing comes later for some.

[d nice]

I still like the "evolution" theory . . . I remember doing the Jitterbug with my Mom back when I was 10 years old through about age 19. I certainly am a better dancer now, than I was back then. Is that not an improvement?

Yes, I know, I'm comparing WCS and ECS to Jitterbug, and dancing with my Mom versus a partner, and inexperience versus experienced. But she was the NY State champion, so she says, and I really enjoyed dancing back then . . . she was good. I turned out to be better . . . so I say!

That is evolution as a dancer not the same thing by any means. I'd put Steven & Virginie or Ryan & Jenny against the best WCS dancers in the world.

[d nice]

Socratic Method...

What is the pupose of counting?

[Vince A]

I still like the "evolution" theory . . . I remember doing the Jitterbug with my Mom back when I was 10 years old through about age 19. I certainly am a better dancer now, than I was back then. Is that not an improvement?

Yes, I know, I'm comparing WCS and ECS to Jitterbug, and dancing with my Mom versus a partner, and inexperience versus experienced. But she was the NY State champion, so she says, and I really enjoyed dancing back then . . . she was good. I turned out to be better . . . so I say!

That is evolution as a dancer not the same thing by any means. I'd put Steven & Virginie or Ryan & Jenny against the best WCS dancers in the world.
Change, evolution, or revolution . . . I'm different! I'm better!

I won't get into a "who is better than who" here . . . I have not seen Steven or Virginie or Ryan or Jenny, but you have not seen Benji and Heidi . . . have you? I wonder why they are World's Champions and US Open Champions, among many other titles. Just as do the ones you mentioned . . . yes???

I can deal with many champions . . . anyone that gets that good is a champion in my book!

[d nice]

Change, evolution, or revolution . . . I'm different! I'm better!

I can believe that, but the question is why are you better?

I won't get into a "who is better than who" here . . . I have not seen Steven or Virginie or Ryan or Jenny, but you have not seen Benji and Heidi . . . have you? I wonder why they are World's Champions and US Open Champions, among many other titles. Just as do the ones you mentioned . . . yes???

Actually I have seen Benji & Heidi... I do WCS also. Which is how I know that one dance is not better than another.

And if we are going to be completely truthful I have issues regarding anyone declared world champions at an event put on by a relative... *shrug* as awesome as they are the term conflict of interest comes to mind. Ryan and Jenny are also ASDC and US Open champions if championships mean anything to you. *shrug* gaining a title for choreography doesn't impress me nearly as much as watching a couple improvise and creat art to music they don't know.

[Vince A]

Change, evolution, or revolution . . . I'm different! I'm better!

I can believe that, but the question is why are you better?

I won't get into a "who is better than who" here . . . I have not seen Steven or Virginie or Ryan or Jenny, but you have not seen Benji and Heidi . . . have you? I wonder why they are World's Champions and US Open Champions, among many other titles. Just as do the ones you mentioned . . . yes???

Actually I have seen Benji & Heidi... I do WCS also. Which is how I know that one dance is not better than another.

Stated like that . . . I agree . . .

And if we are going to be completely truthful I have issues regarding anyone declared world champions at an event put on by a relative... *shrug* as awesome as they are the term conflict of interest comes to mind. Ryan and Jenny are also ASDC and US Open champions if championships mean anything to you. *shrug* gaining a title for choreography doesn't impress me nearly as much as watching a couple improvise and creat art to music they don't know.

As in an event put on by Buddy Schwimmer??? And being "a champion," never, ever entered your brain during your dance career? Never? I never will be, nor do I want it, but it's a PMA contributor towards a dance goal!

OK . . . I concede . . . you DO know what you are talking about! Although I never doubted you for a minute!

However, I do like both the choreographed and improvisational dancing!

[d nice]

Being a "champion" has not ever entered into my mind. They didn't have "national" competitions until I stopped competing. What does being a "champion" mean? A group of people decided that for that day in that dance you were better than those that showed up. *shrug* Dance is an art and therefor is subjective. All attempts at making it something quantifiable I believe lessens the dance because it takes away from the communicative aspects which is the reason for art.

So while I have no problem with competition (or choreography either) my issue has more to do with what happens to peoples dancing because of competition, "We need to do this kind of trick, or that kind of body movement, or dance in this style, because the people who won last year did". *shudder*

We are way off topic now. ;)

[Vince A]

d nice,
We're off topic, but it was nice to hear another point of view . . . kinda opened my eyes . . . no need to compete any longer (no goals), and I need to stop going to the 'judges' classes (as I may have to make someone a champion some day)!

As if I needed a reason.

Thanks . . .

[d nice]

Back on topic...

So if we are to combine strict tempo and relational positioning I feel that it is necessary to use good imagery. When used correctly this allows a student to take natural, everyday, body movement, understand what is happening intellectually, and then apply it (or more to the point allow the body to do it's thing and not have the brain micro-manage) in this new and potentially confusing form.

Example on explaining the lead follow relationship:
I ask all the leaders to join me for a chat. I tell them to take the followers hand in their own and start walking, as if they were shopping and pulling their girlfriends away from the window with the wedding rings. The follow at first "hesitates" and then is brought forward by the leaders committed and decisive movement. I explain that lead/follow is as simple as that. It is not complicated unless you make it so.

This example helps diffuse the apprehension in the leaders about how difficult the whole dancing thing is going to be. At the same time it shows the followers that they don't have to know what is going on to follow. They just have to not fight the leader. By evoking an image that carries common implications or experience little more information is needed to achieve the desired results.

Does this one exercise produce amazing dancers by itself? Of course not, but does it get both parties well onto their way to understanding the fundamental nature behind a very complicated concept in a very accessible way? Hasn't failed for me yet.

Describing movements like pushing a car (why we lead with our body versus our arm) how we walk (moving the center first then "catching" ourselves with our feet), how we jog (a grounded, downward "bounce" or pulse results from flexing our knees into a step and pushing out of one), what posture we have when we are walking in a straight line versus playing a sport like basketball (how our body assumes different postures depending on the type of movement and how quickly we must transition from one direction to another) all help shorten the learning curve.

Once the movement is understood to be natural, it allows a break down of the move and the base rhythm associated with it, using numbers if necessary at first, but switching to a mnemonic that describes the timing as well as the movement or footwork pattern after a few run throughs.

Using this method I had a brand new follow last night (no partner dance experience at all) following swing outs, texas tommys, passes, and sugar pushes after a two-minute brief. Not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but good enough that I did not have to alter much of my own dancing to compensate for her. These results will vary of course, but you can see what is possible.

[pygmalion]

Wow!

I'm going to print this out, to share with my coach. He and I have talked about the same thing many times. Dancing (with a few exceptions) is just using natural movements that occur everywhere in life.

I'm not too fond of the wedding ring example, though. :D

[Vince A]

Amen, amen, amen . . . so very well put!

[msc]

Depending on the level of ballroom dancing, relational positioning is unbelievably important. Almost paramount, especially if you and your partner are supposed to stay rib-to-rib for the whole dance.

Even in Latin, positioning is very important, due to the ferocious speed of many of the moves. When moves occur in the blink of an eye, you don't want to appear to be reaching in desperation for your partner at the end of the move.

Although, to be honest, based on a lot of the stuff you see, both in the ballroom and on the competition floor, I can understand where you might draw the conclusion that positioning isn't that important to ballroom dancers. But it should be.

Oh, one more little note, the idea that the body leads/directs the feet. I saw that mentioned briefly, that's an incredibly important concept. If the feet move independently from your center, it's darn near impossile for the follow to feel what's going on. That's one of those fundamental rules that applies to any dance ... the body always leads the feet.

[pygmalion]

YES! Big yes. I've almost completely stopped worrying about where my feet are. I just try to get my body in the right position with respect to my partner. If I do that, my feet will follow, and fall into the right place. Yay! :D

[d nice]

The body lead is a fundamental concept to the biomechanical approach to dancing. These things apply pretty much across the board to all forms of movement though each specific form will have modifiers that take it out of the Lindy Hop focus of my posts.

Due to the elastic dynamic and high-tempos that lindy hop is danced at (or more appropriately should be able to be danced at, the dance has a huge range of variance in tempo at least 150 bpm range) and it's inherent improvisational nature, footwork as far as foot placement, is unimportant, while the method of foot placement is of utmost importance.

If I want to move backwards placing my foot behind myself and transfering my weight to it is unnatural. Moving my body back (concentrating on the desired result rather than trying to artifically create the individual components) and letting my foot catch and support me is the most natural way.

Now if I am walking forward or back with no expectation of needing to change directions laterally I can step and roll heel to toe (fore) and toe to heel (back). However if I am going to be moving laterally at a momenets notice (remember my body movement and orientation is dictated by where I wish to place my follow) then stepping on the ball of my foot (mid foot rolling to toe and visa versa) is required. Lindy Hop is an athletic dance which does not use a continuous slot so moving in a manner more remeniscent of a sport or jogging is required.

Since footwork is dependant on body movement, and the lead/follow is dependant on relational positioning it only follows that moving the bodies need to be in "sync" and that anything that pulls them out of sync is undesirable.

The Body Lead -vs- The Arm Lead
While a large number of dances allow for, and even encourage the leader to lead his partner by moving his connected arm(s) instead of his body, we can see how easy it is for the partners to end up moving at different speeds if the movement is generated by the leaders arm alone.

If the follower's body has sped up in relation to the leaders he will have a harder time keeping his leads within her space/time continuum (YAY PHYSICS!). His leads will have less and less relevancy to her the further apart they become in their relative speeds.

The leads in lindy hop are derived from the center. In Chinese Martial Arts this is called the "tan tien", it is about two inches below your belly-button, or a line drawn from the union of the leg into the pelvis. The movement lateral or oblique originates here. As it travels through the body it may be manipulated or fine tuned with other muscle groups, but it starts here.

The example I use is moving an object that has weight and has either momentum in the wrong direction or is at rest. Lets say a refrigerator on casters. If you want to move it you don't stand completely upright and push with your arms. You lower your center of gravity and push with your legs, moving your whole body to either retard it's momentum or give it momentum. Disclaimer: No I'm not equating a follower with a heavy, unwieldy, major appliance... at least not all of them ;)

Your body in this example stays at a relativistic speed to the object you are manipulating reducing any lag between the application of force and the resultant change in the object.

[Swing Kitten]

I thought it a good idea to bring this gem back to the forefront... some excellent information here.

[d nice]

Minus the spelling errors there is really good information in here. I had forgotten about this.

[SDsalsaguy]

Minus the spelling errors there is really good information in here. I had forgotten about this.
I think those can be forgiven Damon. :D

[alfborge]

I've been thinking a bit on the subject of teaching lindy hop to people who have never before danced (at least while sober). The general opinion of the instructors where I live is that you need to teach lots of figures so that the beginners feel that they learn something, and so that they can dance. Otherwise they beliveve that the beginners will get bored and leave.

The beginners-courses I've attended have all been very oriented towards the teaching of figures. (Obviously, first one learns the step-step and the triple-step).

When it comes to leading and following the instructors only mention enough to make people believe that they're leading/following the figures they've learned. Anything beyond that is usually up to the individual dancer to pick up while dancing at the classes or socially.

Later on in the course they take about 15 minutes of a class to teach about connection. This is done by making the follower close her eyes (we only have female followers at our beginners classes) and the lead leads back and forth. No basics involved, just lead back and forth. There might be some more excercises like this, but all in all, there is very little focus on leading and following. On technical details like weight and stuff like that.

When you take dancing lessons, you learn steps and you learn steps and you learn steps. It can go on for a long time. And then one day, you just learn to dance, and it is so different. -- Bill Austin

I believe that a beginners course in lindy hop should try to minimalize the time it takes from the step learning phase to the dancing phase. Using what Damon has written in this thread, how would you (that's the plural you) go about teaching this to beginners?

--
Wannabe instructor,
Alf

[alfborge]

By the way, I really liked what you wrote in this thread (as well) Damon. Thanks. I'll print this thread and discuss it with one of my instructors I think.

[Alias]

I enjoyed reading this topic (or thread), many interesting points that I agree with, thanks d nice.

[blue]

The first method is what I term as "strict tempo". A very "ballroom approach, if you will forgive the use of the term. Every count has a specific step associated with it, rhythm is king, and there is a right and wrong place to step which includes angles and weight percentages. It provides very easy answers to where a person needs to be and when they need to be there.

The second method is what I term as "relational positioning". It is a very vernacular approach. The patterns are seen as several movements strung together. The partners learn that where their bodies are in relation to each other is primary. Body movement dictates what type of footwork/placement is used. There is little in the way of questions that tend to be encountered with this method since the only "wrong" step is one that ignores your partner and their movement.

Aye.

Had this thread been active when I first came to this board, I know of one thread that I would not have started...

To me, the similarity to pedagogics in martial arts is striking. Most schools involve exact foot angles, and students struggle to make them which is difficult because their body is facing in the wrong direction - while if you instead had focussed on body directions and the directions of forces, much of these foot angles would have come natural.

In dancing also, it seems the first method is the most common one. Personally I hate it. It denies me of everything I already know.

[Jmatthew]

Heyyas,

Just thought I'd mention that I've been using a lot of this theory and technique in the classes I teach and it's been pretty successful. I even used the major appliance analogy and joke ;). I tried to credit ya with as much as I could, and wanted to give you props here too. :)

[d nice]

Don't bother in class. This stuff isn't copywritten, and I would never attempt to patent my teaching method. As much as teaching is my life (literally) I teach because I want more people to not just do this dance, but do it well. If I come up with anything that others think may help them become a better dancer or produce good dancers in their own right. Have at it.

If you want to thank me on a board or in person and give me props, super. In class don't worry about it,justr get me more people to dance with and we'll consider it more than even.

[mamboqueen]

bump...some useful stuff worth looking at....