black gowns

[Kitty]

I thought I'd never buy a black gown, but...
there is this amazing totally elegant ballgown I'm about to buy... black.

it is like my dream ballgown, really, but I am still not sure it is a good idea.

Is a black ballgown a definite no or "depends"?

what about the couple and what about the style that makes black ok or not ok for the couple?
I am short. The gown is off the shoulder (so pretty!) and open back (but tasteful, not to much back). and bottom of skirt is very moving...

any advice?

[Laura]

If it makes you feel fabulous then go for it. To me, that's the number one criteria for a dress for anyone who does this for a hobby (even as a serious hobby).

Now, as for black, it can be problematic. If the room is on the dark side it can fade into the background. If you are doing Standard you can fade into your partner if he's wearing a tailsuit. However, if the dress is sufficiently stoned and decorated, then this becomes much less of an issue.

But really, unless you're a Pre-Champ level dancer gunning for Championship level or a Championship level dancer gunning to advance extra rounds or an Open-level Pro/Am dancer or an actual Pro, I don't think you need to get to worried about it if the dress looks wonderful on you and you love it. So much of dancing is mental, dancing in a dress that makes you feel like Audrey Hepburn (my first black dress did) is probably more of an asset than the color is a deficit.

By the way, I did put a lot of fuchsia stones around the neckline of my black dress so that there was some eye-catching color on it. It was a good way of having my cake and eating it too.

[tasche]

If it looks fantastic on then go for it

[Kitty]

The idea to put on stones of a different color is great, except... what if that would ruin the look of the dress... ? Is there a way to take stones off safely? without ruining the dress?

currently, the dress doesn't have any stones on it, the upper part is made of some black material with black lace over it and the lace has black beads on it. Very tasteful, rich look, not particularly sparkly.

Another question is what problems does a black gown create and what advantages does it have? does it hide or show the topline? does it shorten the lines? does it hide movement (well, I assume the last one is correct).
As a short couple, our movement should be our strong point since it is easier for us to move than to create long lines... probably, that would be the right strategy...
And what advantages does a black gown have? Shouldn't it be good for at least something?

[Laura]

I've never found a way to remove stones from a dress without leaving glue marks behind. This is because the glue soaks into the fabric fibers.

As far as black goes, the disadvantages are that it doesn't show up as well as a color if the room or the dance floor isn't well lit, and if you're dancing Standard and your partner is wearing a tailsuit then you'll fade into him. If you're wearing black because you think it's slimming, when you're in the proper offset position for Standard you will look as wide as you are plus as wide as half of your partner (the part that is offset from you). That is another reason why black dresses should be heavily stoned. You could put a lot of black stones on it, they will reflect light and won't change the look of the dress like using a contrasting color stone would.

If you're thin, I wouldn't worry about it. Likewise, if you're not dancing Standard, I wouldn't worry about it. If you're dancing in a small event where all the judges will be able to see you anyway, I wouldn't worry about it.

Truth be told, I don't know what the advantages to wearing black on the dance floor are. It's just another color. It's nicer than some other colors (neon bright traffic cone orange comes to mind), and doesn't show dirt or self tanning stains like white does.

[tasche]

If you use gemtac you can get the stones off completely. You have to soak the dress in warm water with a little vinegar and then peel the stone and glue off at the same time. Though for mesh fabrics fugetaboutit.

[Laura]

Tasche, I soaked a Gem-tac glued dress for three days and was able to pull of all the stones without damaging the actual stones but there were still glue marks left on the dress. How do you get the glue marks off? More soaking?

[pygmalion]

Hmm. Random thought. Where's Chris? I would have expected his two (or three :wink: ) cents worth in this thread. He has definite opinions on black, and some good food for thought to back up those opinions. 8)

[Laura]

He's been gone for a few days and it seems kind of weird. I'm guessing the collegiate season is in full swing in Boston now, and so he's busy.

[Warren J. Dew]

The only time I thought a black gown helped the look of a couple was on one couple that had unattractive leg lines. The leg lines were hidden by the blending of the black gown into the man's tailsuit.

It might be okay for smooth, or if your partner wears a white tailsuit.

[delamusica]

and if you do decide to put black stones on it, definitely go with jet AB stones as opposed to just plain jet - they look much better on the floor. And if you think they still change the look to much, AT LEAST make sure that you're using jet stones with a silver backing, or they just won't shine well.

As for the glue question, I've never been able to get glue marks out of fabric. If you try adding stones of a contrasting color (which I personally think would be fantastic - I once saw a black gown with stunning deep emerald green stoning on it that was just as elegant as can be) and then decide you don't like it, you can always add black stones with black backing where the glue marks are - they won't show up at all from a distance, and will have a similar effect to beading up close.

[Katarzyna]

I've never been brave enough to wear black for standard, but I've been playing with that idea for quite a while. If I find one I fall in love with, I will have nothing stopping me from buying the gown.... (My new Chrisanne will keep me from crazy purchases for quite a while thought... :) ) It would need to have quite a bit of stones though...

If you really like it, I see no reason why you shouldn't get it...

[pygmalion]

I wonder if maybe stoning is the key, when you're talking black gowns.

[Kitty]

I wonder if maybe stoning is the key, when you're talking black gowns.

maybe. I'm buying this one from a champ level competitor and it doesn't have a single stone on it, only beads on lace. And she didn't think color was a problem, in fact it was her favourite gown... of course, she was an amazing dancer...

I like delamusica's idea of tiny black stones on lace...

[Kitty]

It might be okay for smooth, or if your partner wears a white tailsuit.

or grey tailsuit
or brown vest and brown pants.
Is that acceptable though? Because girl in black + man in grey is actually a look that I like a lot, I competed in bronze and silver like that. But even starting in silver, I'm not sure that's an ok thing to do. Do any higher level couples do that?

[tasche]

Tasche, I soaked a Gem-tac glued dress for three days and was able to pull of all the stones without damaging the actual stones but there were still glue marks left on the dress. How do you get the glue marks off? More soaking?

You probably soaked it too much and the glue softened back into the fabric. I soaked mine then let it have dry. When its like soft bubble gumflick of the stone then peel the glue off

[Laura]

Thanks for the tip. I'll try it next time. It should peel off like silly putty or well-chewed bubblegum, right?

[tasche]

Yeah like gum in one smooth piece

[randomMysh]

I definitely agree that stoning is the key. Black beads and lace might look rich up close, but you will not see any of that on the dance floor. I would use a mixture of dark colored stones on the dress instead of just black--dark purple, dark blue, dark red, brown, some black--that will give you a subtle depth of color without ruining the sophisticated appeal of the dress.
As far as glue marks go--I was never able to get them off the dress, but you can always cover them up with something else--diff. colored stones, another layer of fabric, applique, beads, whatever.
And definitely stoning is the way to go with ballroom dresses. Everything else either doesn't show up on the floor or looks really really cheap. :(

[pygmalion]

Hi randomMysh. Welcome. :D

[robin]

I think the only real problem with a black dress in a competition is that you might not get seen. Of course if you only enter the kinds of competitions that have only two or three entries in the first place, that's not a problem at all...

But if you're likely to be in comps with several rounds, i think it can be a problem, unless you are very striking in other ways. E.g. Pino and Allessandra sometimes wear black, but they're so fast and charismatci that you absolutely can't miss them (even though they are tiny).

Similarly, if you are incredibly tall, it might not be a problem, or if you're very striking in other respects (e.g. someone very attractive and very blonde, or something of the sort). It's difficult to make generalisations, as it depends on the individual couple, their look, and also the way they dance.

So I think in general, if a couple look very striking and/or charismatic and/or dance in a very dramatic fashion, they can look good in black. If a couple is a little more quiet, black is not going to help.

Of course, as others have said, a *heavily* stoned black dress is not really black, but primarily sparkling, which can look very good, but that needs a *lot* of stones...

[pygmalion]

Do you mean stones in bright colors that contrast with black? Or sparklies that make the effect of the dress more shine than color? Or could either approach work?

[Chris Stratton]

Another thing to remember with black is that the lady can tend to blend into her partner's body excessively. After early syllabus the man is probably wearing a dark vest if not a tailsuit, so he's pretty much all black except at the collar, cuffs, and possibly shirtfront. Even a dark blue dress will do this on video, though fortunately not in person.

[Laura]

Do you mean stones in bright colors that contrast with black? Or sparklies that make the effect of the dress more shine than color? Or could either approach work?

Either would work, but black on black is still more subtle than a color on black. And of course the brighter the color is on the black, then the more it will stand out. I wouldn't go with AB on black or crystal on black though, a professional told me that she thinks it looks cheap and very amateurish. And not in the sense of amateur dancing, but in the sense of newbie home sewing.

[twnkltoz]

Do you mean stones in bright colors that contrast with black? Or sparklies that make the effect of the dress more shine than color? Or could either approach work?

Either would work, but black on black is still more subtle than a color on black. And of course the brighter the color is on the black, then the more it will stand out. I wouldn't go with AB on black or crystal on black though, a professional told me that she thinks it looks cheap and very amateurish. And not in the sense of amateur dancing, but in the sense of newbie home sewing.

I think it depends, really. Grace has a dress by Randall that's just stunning...it's black with a fairly open back (with ties that criss-cross it). It's stoned in ab stones of varying shapes and sizes, making kind of a big squiggle from top to bottom. Not amateurish looking at all!

[DancePoet]

Saw a woman dance waltz in a gorgeous black dress this weekend at the Commonwealth Classic in Lowell, Ma. No highlighting, no stones, just black. It looked simple, yet very classy! Her partner had on all black as well. It was a great show piece they did, and they took first place!

[CC]

I have seen black diamond on black and it shows up better than hematite or jet of course but is still subtle and classy. One of my favorites on black is Cobalt. I saw a gown covered in the bodice in Cobalt then fading out with gradually with hematite blended in - it was gorgeous and certainly stood out - 'course it took alot of stoning!

[tasche]

My new favorite on black is volcano. the shape shifting quality of the stones add movement that black fabric might normally absorb. Of course I have yet to get past the swatch stage but I have swatches of black fabric with various stones stuck on pinned aup all over the house

[Joe]

It was a great show piece they did, and they took first place!
Show piece? First place? 'Splain, Lucy.

[CC]

That's a great combination Tasche - the cobalt actually looks purpleish at times (at least to me) which is why I liked it so much so I know I'd love the same with volcano.

[Chris Stratton]

It was a great show piece they did, and they took first place!
Show piece? First place? 'Splain, Lucy.

Sounds like a competitive showdance/showcase division. Couples perform one at a time, but are judged against each other.

Good for those whose costumes might conceal them on a crowded floor...

[DancePoet]

Hi Joe,

Yep, Chris has it correct. See a tad more detail in the 2004 Commonwealth Classic thread.

[Kitty]

My coach loved the black gown so I bought it (without feeling guilty)!

[Laura]

Excellent! Now we want to see pictures of you dancing in it!

[Kitty]

I don't know how to insert a picture into a post.

[Chris Stratton]

Hit the image button, paste in the image URL, hit the image button again. Try a quoted reply to this message and you will see what the 'source code' ends up looking like.

http://www.dance-forums.com/images/avatars/46968181041999922ef42e.jpg

(The image itself is not stored in your post - you have to link to a picture stored somewhere else. In this case, I'm just linking to DF's locker of avatars)

[tasche]

You can use imageshack.us to host as you dont have to register to host pics. Just dont forget the url

[Laura]

So speaking of black gowns, here's one I made for a friend last year. It has about 40 gross of jet stones on it, plus the fabric has black glitter squiggles all over it.

http://www.dancesportimage.com/lfdir/galleries/action/display/anyablackscc.jpg

[Purr]

The dress is very pretty! :D

[tanzsegler]

mmmm gorgeous woman in black dress that suductively hints at much more without actually giving in ... mmm, please don't wake me from this dream

[Vince A]

That is gorgeous!!!

Black material with black Swarovsky stones is dynamic and beautiful! I had a Swing competition shirt done that way!

[Kitty]

thank you, tasche!

[Laura]

Very nice. Are you still considering putting rhinestones on it?

[Kitty]

Very nice. Are you still considering putting rhinestones on it?

do you think i should?

[twnkltoz]

Very pretty, Kitty. I like it, but I would add stones to it! (of course, pictures never do them justice, do they?)

Laura, I love that one you made (is that Anna?)!

[Laura]

Jen, yep, that's Anya.

Kitty, your dress appears to have lace on the topmost layer, right? How about getting a bunch of 16ss or 18ss stones and using them to emphasize the detail in the lace? You can get Jet, or better yet Jet Hematite. If you want some subtle color, go for Heliotrope, Cobalt, or Jet AB (my favorite). Dark Sapphire is really midnight blue, and looks very subtle on black. Montana is really navy blue, and is another subtle possibility.

I'd say get 20 gross minimum, 30 or 40 gross if you can afford it.

[jinnsback]

Laura that dress is beautiful! You made that? Can you send me some links of where I can shop for some ballroom dresses? I am such a newbie to all this and need some guidance...thanks!!

[tasche]

thank you, tasche!

I'm not sure what for but your welcome :lol:

[Kitty]

thank you, tasche!

I'm not sure what for but your welcome :lol:

I posted pictures using hosting that you gave me a link for... but I edited message and deleted the pictures probably before you had a chance to look at them.

[tasche]

Thats a very flattering cut on you. Nice. Are you going to leave it plain or stone it. For some reason I think maybe emerald ab in a small size might look nice sprinkled throughout for an elegant look

[Kitty]

I think I'll leave it the way it is for now as I would rather spend the money on lessons than stones... when I graduate from college...

[tasche]

I think I'll leave it the way it is for now as I would rather spend the money on lessons than stones... when I graduate from college...

Fair enough sometimes having oneof those job thingies (yuck) cna help sometimes :wink:

[DancePoet]

My partner is going to be wearing all black, skirt and tight fitted bodice, for the comp this weekend. She has this gorgeous red dress, but it's a little too fancy for the guidlines given for our dance level, so black it is, and the black out fit looks fine.

I'm wondering what folks' viewpoint is on the guy wearing all black as well? I'm wondering if I stick with my black pants, vest, and bow tie, along with a white shirt, if this would be better?

[Chris Stratton]

Ninja costuming... increase your chances of sneaking illegal figures past the invigilator!

[Laura]

Personally, I feel that if the guy is wearing a black vest, bow tie, and white shirt, that he looks like a waiter. If you're going to wear a white shirt, don't wear a bow tie. :)

[pygmalion]

Ninja costuming... increase your chances of sneaking illegal figures past the invigilator!

:lol: :lol:

[DancePoet]

Personally, I feel that if the guy is wearing a black vest, bow tie, and white shirt, that he looks like a waiter. If you're going to wear a white shirt, don't wear a bow tie. :)
Actually, the concept of looking like a waiter works very well with the look of her skirt and fitted bodice. Particularly for Tango. It's like the lonely, dark woman at the hotel bar, 2 am in morning, no one else around, the bartender with the bow tie escorts the woman out on to the floor for the last tango and waltz. (I'm not sure how our quickstep fits into that picture, but hey, if it's peppy, that will certainly get her out of that downer mood she is in after sipping her last cocktail.)

But seriously, even though I'm dancing standard the bow tie doesn't work?

Ok ... is the black bow tie ok with all black?

[Joe]

No, it's lame. Go out and get a black satin standard necktie and a black shirt.

[pygmalion]

So no bowties, period? Is that what I'm hearing?

[Chris Stratton]

Well, the new rules say we all have to wear tailcoats with appropriate accessories (white bow tie) ;-)

[pygmalion]

:doh: Oh. I'm so confused. Bowties are lame, but required? Sheesh! :lol: :lol:

[Chris Stratton]

It's the black bow ties people are objecting to. They'd look quite nice if people actually had dinner jackets, but there's little point in buying one of those unless you also plan to wear it socially.

[pygmalion]

Ah. Okay. That makes more sense, now. 8) But yeah. Who wears a dinner jacket socially enough to make it worthwhile? Not many, I guess.

[DancePoet]

No, it's lame. Go out and get a black satin standard necktie and a black shirt.
I own black shirts and ties, and thanks for you advice.

Also, I saw Pros today wearing black on black for standard. One guy changed his ties to match the colors of his students dresses. I used all black with my Am/Am partner in her black outfit, and I used the black bow tie with white shirt with my Pro/Am events. My instructor prefered this, and I saw two other men wearing black bow ties with white shirts and black vests, dancing at Gold and Silver levels, and everything looked fine. I'm very glad I had all black with my partner. :)

[DancePoet]

So no bowties, period? Is that what I'm hearing?
I saw black and white bow ties today, being worn for International Standard.

[DancePoet]

It's the black bow ties people are objecting to. They'd look quite nice if people actually had dinner jackets, but there's little point in buying one of those unless you also plan to wear it socially.
A top Pro wore a black dinner jacket all day today, but no bow tie.

[Chris Stratton]

It's the black bow ties people are objecting to. They'd look quite nice if people actually had dinner jackets, but there's little point in buying one of those unless you also plan to wear it socially.
A top Pro wore a black dinner jacket all day today, but no bow tie.

Was it tailored for dancing? Or just an ordinary off the rack social one? While you can see a dance-tailored jacket on the occasional senior syllabus competitor, the judges are usually wearing something with social-cut shoulders, since they will spend little time in dance position. Most aren't in dance shoes either - they will spend a LOT of time on their feet.

What I should have said was "unless you plan to wear it for social dancing"

[DancePoet]

It's the black bow ties people are objecting to. They'd look quite nice if people actually had dinner jackets, but there's little point in buying one of those unless you also plan to wear it socially.
A top Pro wore a black dinner jacket all day today, but no bow tie.

Was it tailored for dancing? Or just an ordinary off the rack social one? While you can see a dance-tailored jacket on the occasional senior syllabus competitor, the judges are usually wearing something with social-cut shoulders, since they will spend little time in dance position. Most aren't in dance shoes either - they will spend a LOT of time on their feet.

What I should have said was "unless you plan to wear it for social dancing"
The Pro is an owner of a large studio in the Boston area. It was tailored for dancing. It looked very good. It definitely seemed to help him stay in the background of his Am competitors even thought the quality of his dancing is outstanding.

I actually asked the lead judge (feel free to clue me in if there is a name for this) regarding men wearing an all black outfit if the woman wore all black. He said it would depend on what the woman's black outfit looked like, and sometimes it could wash her out if there wasn't something to set her apart. And he seemed to mean that sometimes wearing a white shirt made sense with a woman wearing all black.

I saw one couple dancing at the Gold Level wear the woman's black dress was so plain that the guy wearing the white shirt looked very appropriate, and it did seem to focus the attention back towards the woman.

However, I felt like my all black worked with my partner's all black. Her black skirt was very plain with a black ruffle at the bottom and another about 1/3 the way up. Her fitted bodice had alternating velvet and fabric strips going from top to bottom about an inch wide, but the color change was very subtle between the two types of fabric. There were shoulder straps that went from the edge of the shoulder almost all the way to the neck, and she wore w balck scarf that matched the straps. Her jewelery included black earings and a black necklace, but also a flashy very wide/long bracelet on her left wrist. She seemed to have just enough detail to stand out well.

I have a tie and a bow tie that match my vest. The pattern is a very subtle, very, very small diamond pattern that looks classy, but doesn't draw too much attention. Based on the advice here and what I observed during the competition, I wore the tie with my black outfit while dancing with my AM partner.

Since we were uncontested, we'll see what the judges said with their remarks when we view these with our instructor. It will be interesting to see the video, too.

[Chris Stratton]

Seems like we're almost talking past each other given the differences in sorts of events we generally attend.

I hadn't realized the pro you were referring to was dancing - in my mind, a pro at a comp is either a judge, or someone who turned up to watch their students. But of course those wouldn't be the only possibilities at a pro-am comp.

In terms of black and black disappearing, it's a much larger issue with a full floor, especially in early rounds. If there are only a few couples on the floor, they won't miss you. I doubt anyone will comment on the costuming choice unless you specifically ask - black gowns can be very elegant, and compatible with black menswear. They just don't demand attention the way brighter colors can.

[Kitty]

I need to decide what I'm wearing for the next comp.

normally, if costumes are allowed in the level I'm dancing, I'd wear the black gown, but that was before I owned the blue outfit, so there wasn't a decision to make
At comps where gowns were prohibited, I didn't have to decide again - I wore the blue outfit.
For my next comp I have to choose whether I'm wearing the blue or the black gown. What do you think?

Blue is very plain and dark anyway. (it actually looks darker on the floor than in this picture)
http://www.photoreflect.com/scripts/prsm.dll?eventorder?photo=0314000D1G0069&start=0&album=0&adjust=-1

Black is very flattering and fancy but black. The event I'm going to will have a quaterfinal.
http://www.photoreflect.com/scripts/prsm.dll?eventorder?photo=0314000D1M0000&start=0&album=0&adjust=-1
http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Clubs/ballroom/pictures/uconn_2004/pages/IMG_2155_JPG.htm

[Sabor]

dont know about black gowns and such.. the wave of the future are transparent gowns so i hear :applause:

[Joe]

There'd be no complaints here. :) Of course, I'm not sure anyone would really be looking at the dancing... ;)

[Laura]

I like the blue one because the color stand out more, but you said that it's not really that blue in person so that kind of negates why I like it.

You should wear whichever one makes you feel more spunky and dancy.

[Kitty]

You should wear whichever one makes you feel more spunky and dancy.

this is an excellent suggestion.
When we went to last comp, I was upset that in our level I couldn't wear the gown. My partner said: "you can dance in blue, and then change into the black gown and wear it for the rest of the day"

[DancePoet]

Seems like we're almost talking past each other given the differences in sorts of events we generally attend.

I hadn't realized the pro you were referring to was dancing - in my mind, a pro at a comp is either a judge, or someone who turned up to watch their students. But of course those wouldn't be the only possibilities at a pro-am comp.

In terms of black and black disappearing, it's a much larger issue with a full floor, especially in early rounds. If there are only a few couples on the floor, they won't miss you. I doubt anyone will comment on the costuming choice unless you specifically ask - black gowns can be very elegant, and compatible with black menswear. They just don't demand attention the way brighter colors can.
I believe you have a very good point regarding black and color. On a crowded floor, a black dress likely needs to be very special to draw attention with all the other color that can usually be found.

[DancePoet]

I need to decide what I'm wearing for the next comp.

normally, if costumes are allowed in the level I'm dancing, I'd wear the black gown, but that was before I owned the blue outfit, so there wasn't a decision to make
At comps where gowns were prohibited, I didn't have to decide again - I wore the blue outfit.
For my next comp I have to choose whether I'm wearing the blue or the black gown. What do you think?

Blue is very plain and dark anyway. (it actually looks darker on the floor than in this picture)
http://www.photoreflect.com/scripts/prsm.dll?eventorder?photo=0314000D1G0069&start=0&album=0&adjust=-1

Black is very flattering and fancy but black. The event I'm going to will have a quaterfinal.
http://www.photoreflect.com/scripts/prsm.dll?eventorder?photo=0314000D1M0000&start=0&album=0&adjust=-1
http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Clubs/ballroom/pictures/uconn_2004/pages/IMG_2155_JPG.htm
Well, after your results from that last comp, (Outstanding!) if you are moving up into the silver level, maybe the black dress will be most appropriate?

[DancePoet]

You should wear whichever one makes you feel more spunky and dancy.

this is an excellent suggestion.
When we went to last comp, I was upset that in our level I couldn't wear the gown. My partner said: "you can dance in blue, and then change into the black gown and wear it for the rest of the day"
Laura is correct, go how you feel on any given day.

And your partner sounds like a cool guy!

[Kitty]

I know I know! Solution:

I'll ask my partner what he'd like me to wear! And I won't accept answers like "whatever you want" or "it is up to you".

[Laura]

Or, better yet, you can ask his opinion and then show up in whatever strikes your fancy when you pack your bag in the morning. :) And when he says "I thought you were going to wear ... " you can just shrug your shoulders and smile. (I've done this before...to the point of making a new dress starting on a Monday to wear on the next Friday.)

:)

[DancePoet]

If he says the blue dress, and shows up with a blue tie and you wear something else ... planning in advance makes sense to me. ;)

[Joe]

I know I know! Solution:

I'll ask my partner what he'd like me to wear! And I won't accept answers like "whatever you want" or "it is up to you".
If he's smart, that's exactly what his answers will be...

[DancePoet]

I know I know! Solution:

I'll ask my partner what he'd like me to wear! And I won't accept answers like "whatever you want" or "it is up to you".
If he's smart, that's exactly what his answers will be...
:lol: Joe speaks much wisdom here. :D

[Kitty]

I know I know! Solution:

I'll ask my partner what he'd like me to wear! And I won't accept answers like "whatever you want" or "it is up to you".
If he's smart, that's exactly what his answers will be...

I know. I tried it before and it didn't work :-( He's too smart. Or he just really doesn't care what I wear as long as I dance well...

But I just can't choose! I like both outfits so much!
Blue a little brighter - better for an event with a quater final. Black - fancier, better for an event where everyone else, I know, will be wearing a gown.

Girls, how do you choose when you have more than one dress available?

[Chris Stratton]

If you are thinking of BU, it will probably be a fairly colorfull field. Boston dancers are more likley to be in disintegrating team gowns than dark colors. Your team owns one red, feather gown and you are the only couple going to this comp, right? When in Rome...

[Kitty]

If you are thinking of BU, it will probably be a fairly colorfull field. Boston dancers are more likley to be in disintegrating team gowns than dark colors. Your team owns one red, feather gown and you are the only couple going to this comp, right? When in Rome...

Oh no!
You are not narrowing the options! You are adding more choices! :shock: :lol: :lol:

Wouldn't everyone else wear red too? Is it better to wear the brightest color, or the color that no one else is wearing?

I wish they posted the judging panel.
If there are judges from MAC or UPenn present, I'd wear the blue.
If there are judges that have seen me at Yale - black. Does that logic make sense? Or is it just unlikely that there will be and NY judges there?

[Chris Stratton]

I think it's likely to be a mostly local panel, though there might be some overlap with UConn or Yale panels. Boston has something of a tradition of playing dress up at comps, wheras NY has more connection to the adult syllabus tradition with its simpler look and sometimes dark colored practice skirts. Given that you would be relative outsiders in Boston and aren't the tallest couple, some color could be nice. My memory of the Boston collegiate gown inventory is that pink, orange, white and to some degree yellow are heavily represented, while there aren't all that many red gowns.

[randomMysh]

If you are thinking of BU, it will probably be a fairly colorfull field. Boston dancers are more likley to be in disintegrating team gowns than dark colors. Your team owns one red, feather gown and you are the only couple going to this comp, right? When in Rome...

Then again, if everyone else will be wearing color, black will stand out because it's NOT a color...the problem with black is that usually (esp. in the beginner levels) everyone and their grandmother wears black.

I think the worst for blending in is wearing the same bright color as two or three other couples. I was at a comp once where no less than four ladies wore red! :shock:

[Katarzyna]

If you could only fit in my pink dress, I would let you use it...

[Chris Stratton]

If you could only fit in my pink dress, I would let you use it...

Oh, I'm sure she could fit *in* it.

[Katarzyna]

I don't think I would be willing to cut it :(

[Kitty]

If you could only fit in my pink dress, I would let you use it...

more options!!! :lol:

it probably would be too big on me. Or at least too long.
Thank you very much for offering!

[and123]

I always bring "options". One, you never know when something will go wrong with a particular costume. Two, as several people have alluded to, sometimes the group you are dancing against is a sea of one color, and it's nice to stand out. Or keep on hand a selection of accessories that let you change your look quickly (jewelry, hair ornaments, gloves/gauntlets, scarf, etc.) If you wear the black gown, you could accessorize with pretty much any color. Wish I was going to the BU comp, but unfortunately this thing called "life" has interfered and I had to pull out :(

Melissa

[Joe]

To twist Fernando's catchphrase around, "It's better to dance good than to look good."

But if you're worried that your dancing isn't up to snuff and you feel you need to dress it up, pick something that will hide whatever flaws you feel you have. That is, if you feel your footwork is sub-par, wear a long skirt. If you feel your topline is weak, wear something with floats.

[Katarzyna]

more options!!! :lol:

it probably would be too big on me. Or at least too long.
Thank you very much for offering!

Definitely too long :)

Possibly too big

[Kitty]

actually, I'm not worried about any technical aspects.

The only thing that I'm worried about is that we are not showy enough and that we are not going to get seen and taken seriously by the judges.

Also BU competition is far away from where we live and normally compete, and I'm afraid that judges will mark the local couples that they recognize. I know this sounds like I don't have any trust in judges to mark only the best couples but I actually don't.

[Katarzyna]

From my memory, Boston couples often do better at home comps then at MAC. Frequently, NY couples don't do as well in Boston as they do locally. Not sure if it's a bias, or simply judges mark couples that execute what they teach, and for the most part, local judges train local couples...

I think this happens even more at lower levels where judges/coaches believe that certain actions are more important to develop than others. (i.e. frame, or footwork, or verticality etc....).

[DancePoet]

actually, I'm not worried about any technical aspects.

The only thing that I'm worried about is that we are not showy enough and that we are not going to get seen and taken seriously by the judges.

Also BU competition is far away from where we live and normally compete, and I'm afraid that judges will mark the local couples that they recognize. I know this doesn't sound like I have any trust in judges to mark only best couples but I actually don't.
Hopefully the judges will grade you like all the rest, fairly. But I understand how you feel. Having a certain presence on the floor could be helpful. I believe part of this is to really be into what you are doing, don't just be there, be into it!

I'm off topic, but this past weekend my partner and I both were wearing all black, and the parents of two friends of mine, whom I had never met, and still haven't met, told my friends that they had asked who the couple was in all black. They told my friends that our dancing looked very good, and that we looked like we were really into it. Not a bad comment to make about us two Newcomers to International Standard. :D

[Kitty]

the parents of two friends of mine, whom I had never met, and still haven't met, told my friends that they had asked who the couple was in all black. They told my friends that our dancing looked very good, and that we looked like we were really into it. Not a bad comment to make about us two Newcomers to International Standard. :D

Good job! :D

My problem is not that I'm not there. I'm very much there.
But sometimes I have such a concentrated look on my face... at least I don't look that I don't care about what I'm doing.

I'm not worried about judges being unfair. They just don't care. Syllabus competitors are not really worth caring about. It is a job. Nothing happens if I win or if I place last. For them.

Nothing happens if they don't notice me in the crowd and don't recall me. Thats why I want to wear something that will make them look. I don't want them to have a choice :-)

[pygmalion]

I'm not worried about judges being unfair. They just don't care. Syllabus competitors are not really worth caring about. It is a job. Nothing happens if I win or if I place last. For them.

Nothing happens if they don't notice me in the crowd and don't recall me. Thats why I want to wear something that will make them look. I don't want them to have a choice :-)

Wow, Kitty. That's a strong statement. Not worth caring about? :?

I like the idea of costuming that makes 'em look, though.

[pygmalion]

Sorry, Kitty. Not picking on you. I know I sound naive and idealistic, and maybe I am. But how do you get motivated to do your best in a competition, meanwhile thinking that you're insignificant to the judges? What's the point, then?

Surely they must care about something. Maybe not you, personally. They might not know you personally. But maybe about the sport. Ya know? I'd hate to think that syllabus level competitors are considered expendable. :?

Sorry. A total digression. :oops:

I looked at your pix, btw, and I like the blue best. But then, that shade of blue is one of my best colors -- I look and feel good in it. So maybe Laura was right. Wear whatever makes you feel dancy that day. 8)

[Kitty]

Sorry, Kitty. Not picking on you. I know I sound naive and idealistic, and maybe I am. But how do you get motivated to do your best in a competition, meanwhile thinking that you're insignificant to the judges? What's the point, then?

Surely they must care about something. Maybe not you, personally. They might not know you personally. But maybe about the sport. Ya know? I'd hate to think that syllabus level competitors are considered expendable. :?

Of course they care about few things. Some of them at least. But I just don't see consistency in how they mark couples and I also don't see them picking good criteria.

Generally if you "look good" and comfortable, you get marked well in lower levels. Which means that if instead of actually having good technique, you are faking it, most judges are not going to care.

[DancePoet]

I hope the judges care enough about what they are doing or they should not be judging.

[Kitty]

I hope the judges care enough about what they are doing or they should not be judging.

Actually, at collegiate comps even this is often not true.

The only way out of this is to not care about actual result.

[Chris Stratton]

One thing that can work is to have enough general audience appeal to get to the final, and then within the final pay more attention to the marks of specific judges. To some extent, comps in the early years are just a bit of a mind game we play with ourselves to get motivation, and to another extent they are practice at the art of dancing in competition. The actual results are far from the most important thing.

[pygmalion]

Ah. Okay. Now I understand better. 8)

So how does one get motivated, then? I know it's totally off topic... maybe I should start another and let this one stay with black gowns and such. :?

[DancePoet]

So Kitty, have you decided on the black gown?

[Kitty]

no:-)

I decided to follow Laura's advice:-)

[pygmalion]

LOL. Laura gives good advice. 8) :D

[DancePoet]

Very good advice!

[Kitty]

So how does one get motivated, then?

I don't really know. By thinking a lot, realizing all of this and caring more about one's coach's opinion than anything else. In this case a lot depends on the coach and choosing a good coach becomes critical.

After MAC Chris tried to support me by telling me not to worry about who wins bronze today, but rather about who will start placing in pre-champ day after tommorow.

[DancePoet]

I can get very motivated seeing a woman in a black dress. ;)

[Kitty]

I can get very motivated seeing a woman in a black dress. ;)

That very much motivates me to wear black dresses :lol: :lol: :lol:

[DancePoet]

I can get very motivated seeing a woman in a black dress. ;)

That very much motivates me to wear black dresses :lol: :lol: :lol:
Well, maybe I've found a date for V-Day after all. ;)

[pygmalion]

So how does one get motivated, then?

I don't really know. By thinking a lot, realizing all of this and caring more about one's coach's opinion than anything else. In this case a lot depends on the coach and choosing a good coach becomes critical.

After MAC Chris tried to support me by telling me not to worry about who wins bronze today, but rather about who will start placing in pre-champ day after tommorow.


Chris is one of the good guys. 8)

[Laura]

I thought we weren't supposed to post active links to sites that sell things?

[mamboqueen]

Someone has a very pretty pink gown on ebay right now going for around $300. She has competition pictures up, which are really nice, but kind of hard to get the full gist of the front of the dress. I don't want to post the link just in case Laura's correct, but you could search ebay "ballroom dance" or something like that to find it.

[Katarzyna]

Hm.. I think you're talking about my gown...
Those are the only photos I have, they are from the previous owner :)

[mamboqueen]

Well, it looks beautiufl; I'd just like to see a full frontal shot of the gown.

[Katarzyna]

That would be toght at the moment as I don't have a working camera at this moment... :? It's just covered with stones, no pattern, just mesh fabric and stones..

[mamboqueen]

I'm 5'7" .... too short for me??? What's the material?? Not 100% sure I could pull off the color, unless I had some fake tan action going on. Can this be for both standard and smooth?

[Katarzyna]

170 cm is 5'7'', I am 5'7'' as well. The float would most likely get in the way for smooth. Unless its taken off...

[Larinda McRaven]

You are correct Laura. There are not supposed to be "active links". But at the moment I am the only moderator for the ballroom threads... So my "watchful eye" is only watching late at night and early in the morning.

Just to remind everyone again. Links to commercial sites may be posted as blahblah.com, but you cannot activate the url by adding the "www" as in www.blahblah.com

Please feel free to pm me and let me know if you see things that need attention, that you feel I may have missed.

[Laura]

I had totally forgotten that we were moderated!

To me, that means that the moderators are doing an excellent job. So a big thanks goes out to Larinda for donating her eyeball time to keeping this place the nicest dance board that I've ever seen. And I mean it.

[Joe]

Why doesn't blahblah.com resolve for me? ;)

[SDsalsaguy]

Why doesn't blahblah.com resolve for me? ;)
:doh: :lol:

[Larinda McRaven]

Why doesn't blahblah.com resolve for me? ;)

You are not wispering sweet nothings to the computer as you type, they are very sensitive sometimes... :wink:

[standardgirl]

Why is wearing black gown such a big deal in standard or smooth? (sorry, I am not trying to argue or anything, just curious.)

I do see a lot of people, pro's, pro/am's, am's, wearing black dress in latin and rhythm?

What's the difference?

[Chris Stratton]

Well, merging into you partner is probably less of a risk in latin than in standard.

[Kitty]

Why is wearing black gown such a big deal in standard or smooth? (sorry, I am not trying to argue or anything, just curious.)

I do see a lot of people, pro's, pro/am's, am's, wearing black dress in latin and rhythm?

What's the difference?

they are afraid to look fat (as a result of merging into partners body).

Also a lot of movement of a large bright colored skirt is a lot more noticeable than the movement of a black skirt.

[Katarzyna]

Black can be great especially when it has a little accent of another color :) :wink:

[Laura]

Keynes Pun wore a black dress with hot pink lace appliques on it in one of thee Standard events at Nationals. Unfortunately, I don't have a picture of it -- it's a great example of what Katarzyna is talking about. (Disclaimer: I helped roll the hems on it, so I'm not entirely impartial about this dress.)

[Katarzyna]

(Disclaimer: I helped roll the hems on it, so I'm not entirely impartial about this dress.)

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[skwiggy]

I wanted to revive this old thread as I have been thinking a lot about black gowns lately. I'm considering a black gown. I always feel like they are very striking and elegant. But I do have the fear of not standing out enough on a crowded floor, and also I am concerned about the ability to resell a black gown since so many people are against wearing them.

I read through the thread and I have to say in general it is swaying me against black. But I'd be very interested to hear if anyone has had any new or different thoughts on the matter of a black ballgown for standard over the last 5 years since this thread was last active. ;)

[ChaChaMama]

Skwiggy, didn't you have a black gown before? Maybe with a sapphire-colored diamond-shaped crystal accent, and matching hair accessories?

Maybe I made this up.

[skwiggy]

I had a black gown with a lot of turquoise accent. I didn't feel that one qualified as entirely black, because of the turquoise accents. I'm contemplating something more purely black. But kind of leaning against it.

[3wishes]

As recently as a "big" competition, I had also been wanting a pearl chiffon black with white accents standard gown. I even went to far, at the competition, to drag Debra of DF along with me and try it on. The fit - perfect, movement - stellar, drop dead wow (for me that is), my pro and some of my coaches (who also judge) happened to walk by and saw me in it, 1) they said "NO BLACK" no matter how lovely 2) repeat - "no black".....as I sighed and gently put it back on the display. crud. sighhhhhhh.

[NonieS]

hmmmm now I will have to go and read this thread... I have always loved black dresses (in latin and standard) as I feel that you can get really creative with designs with out verging on the side of OMG TACKY, that sometimes you get with bright colors. That is one of many reasons I like black dresses... but yeah, I always notice people seem to be like "anything but black!!!!!!" when considering getting a new dress.

[NonieS]

eh I read the thread, and it hasn't turned me off black dresses... my partner and I are dancing open, and thin... and also freakishly amazonian tall... so I think that "blending in" won't be a problem for us ;)

[Standarddancer]

one of the English coaches had told me "Black dress is usually a waste of time", so I guess what he means is black dress is very easy to miss at a large comp? That coach judges Blackpool, so I think what he means is at a round of 20 or 30 couples, would be so easy to miss a couple with black dress, except for the very top couples whom are already so well-known.

[tanya_the_dancer]

I got a black dress for smooth. But it's not purely black, it has a mint green underskirt and appliques. It also shows a lot of skin, so there's less of an issue of blending together.

[skwiggy]

I think I've pretty much decided against it this time around. Maybe I will revisit again in the future.

[Joe]

I know you got tired of the red dress because you wore it for so long, but it did always stand out...

[skwiggy]

Yes, the red always stood out. It's tricky for me to get the right red tone to compliment my skin. A lot of the cooler reds don't look quite right on me.

I think I'm going to go with what has always been my favorite color. Purple!! That's always what my eye is drawn to, and I have been fighting the urge to get another purple dress for a long time now because I felt I should diversify. But life is short, and purple makes me happy. :)

[jjs914]

I think I'm going to go with what has always been my favorite color. Purple!! That's always what my eye is drawn to, and I have been fighting the urge to get another purple dress for a long time now because I felt I should diversify. But life is short, and purple makes me happy. :)

I've been drawn to purple lately too. Go for it and enjoy! :D

[star_gazer]

Yes, the red always stood out. It's tricky for me to get the right red tone to compliment my skin. A lot of the cooler reds don't look quite right on me.

I think I'm going to go with what has always been my favorite color. Purple!! That's always what my eye is drawn to, and I have been fighting the urge to get another purple dress for a long time now because I felt I should diversify. But life is short, and purple makes me happy. :)

Kat has a gorgeous deep purple dress for sale at a reasonable price. Very elegant.

[Katarzyna]

Kat has a gorgeous deep purple dress for sale at a reasonable price. Very elegant.
Was thinking that :0 I have not posted it for sale in my site as its outdated a tad but it is indeed.

[roxie333]

I wanted to revive this old thread as I have been thinking a lot about black gowns lately. I'm considering a black gown. I always feel like they are very striking and elegant. But I do have the fear of not standing out enough on a crowded floor, and also I am concerned about the ability to resell a black gown since so many people are against wearing them.

I read through the thread and I have to say in general it is swaying me against black. But I'd be very interested to hear if anyone has had any new or different thoughts on the matter of a black ballgown for standard over the last 5 years since this thread was last active. ;)


I too love black and I also understand the detractors of wearing that colour. What about wearing black dresses/gowns that have bright highlights, like a black dress with pink highlights?

[tanya_the_dancer]

Yes, the red always stood out. It's tricky for me to get the right red tone to compliment my skin. A lot of the cooler reds don't look quite right on me.

I think I'm going to go with what has always been my favorite color. Purple!! That's always what my eye is drawn to, and I have been fighting the urge to get another purple dress for a long time now because I felt I should diversify. But life is short, and purple makes me happy. :)

That was part of my reasoning for getting a black dress. Black is one of my favorite colors, I look great in it, and that makes me happy. So I might as well enjoy it.

[JANATHOME]

Thats too bad about the judges comment on black... My very first gown was completly black and I loved it... Though, could be, who does not love the firtst gown they bought??? Not too long ago I sold that gown so ladies are still buying all black.

[Standarddancer]

ALL black without any bright contrasting color could be so risky of being missed at early rounds of large comp, black with contract floats or some other design could avoid being blended into man's tailsuit color. I used to have nice black dress with red rose & green leaves pattern, stoned with lots of red & green SW stones, so the distinctive rose/green leaves pattern stand out on the black dress. It would be the best to have some design pattern to contrast the black dress to be more visible and distinctive.

if you prefer dark color over bright color, purple rain color or darker blue would be good choice; yes kat's deep purple dress is a good one.

[fire_dancer]

I think it depends on the style of dance you're doing. I've always heard the "no black dresses" rule and in pictures of standard couples I've seen, black dress + black suit = one black blob on the floor, and that was even when worn by world champions.

However, a top amateur lady who happens to dance at the same studio I do had a black dress for a while, and she made it look AMAZING! She and her partner also won every competition (Open Rising Star Adult/Senior I) comp they entered. It may be easier for American dancers to get away with black, since they spend a fair amount of time away from their partner and so their individual lines can still be seen.

Seeing how fantastic she looked in it made me change my mind about the "Absolutely no black dresses" rule... I'm now more of the "If you LOVE the dress and think it will make you dance better because you feel good about yourself, then wear it!" mindset. :)