Men teachers for men?

[Swingolder]

My dh and I are taking some more east coast lessons. These are group lessons with about 6 or 7 couples and the teacher is male. If there is an off female/male ratio, more women than men, us ladies get a turn to dance with the instructor.

I can really tell the difference in leads between the instructor and most of the other guys. How does a man ever "get" the right touch if all he dances with are other women in the class? I try to explain the difference to my dh but he gets confused when I say I need to feel it, but not too forceful, too hard, too soft, too rough, etc. I just can't explain the difference to him.

The instructor, of course, has no idea how the men's leads are. We follow, because in a class setting we have a pretty good idea of what is coming (what we have just learned!!!) So I know a lot comes with experience but are there any hints for the guys? And I certainly don't want my dh to think I am picking on him!

Should we specifically look for a female teacher for our next class?

[Chris Stratton]

The instructor, of course, has no idea how the men's leads are.

Being male shouldn't stop him from following the guys in class briefly now and then to check on how they are doing, however the amount of individual attention that can be given in a group class is limited. If it's unbalanced number driving things, a female pro could also end up mostly filling in as a leader.

Sometimes it can be helpful for male students to try to sort-of follow for a minute, to get an idea of how different things they do would feel to a partner.

[Flat Shoes]

I had a definite deja vu feeling reading your post. Have you brought this up before?

Anyway, I feel classes are best held by a couple. One lead and one follow. How can the instructor demonstrate properly when alone?

The best way to get the right feeling is experience. Only classes, never social dancing or practicing outside class, and it can take a long time.

But some knowledge of what to do also helps. The tension in the arms between the couple is the most important. The second most important is relaxing and not stressing. Neither of you should be stiff or jerky in any way.

Here's something I recently wrote in the Salsa forum about frame. It is actually written from a Lindy Hop perspective, but I think it's pretty general. It goes a little bit further than just tension.


Proper tension (I like to say relaxed tension) is part of the frame. But there's more to the frame than just the tension between the partners. There's the connection between the partners arms, but there's also the connection between the arms and the bodies, and the way the arms and bodies are used for doing the movements. All of this together makes up the frame.

A good frame is:
:arrow: Relaxed tension
:arrow: Smooth tension, do not jerk your arms around but increase/decrease pressure smoothly.
:arrow: Lead from the body, follow with the body. The body is moved by the arms. The body initiates and supports the arm movements. This is closely related to smooth tension. It's harder to jerk your body around, than just your arms.
:arrow: Keep a good connection between your body and your own arms. Don't collapse, don't overstretch, don't let your arms come behind your shoulder/body. If you do this, you loose power in your arms, and you can't lead/follow any more. (And you might hurt yourself.)

At least, this is how a proper frame is in Lindy Hop, and I guess it's the same for all dances. I don't do ballroom, but I can imagine them being much stiffer than the average Lindy Hop'er, still I would guess that even with a much stiffer frame they still try to be relaxed (shoulders down), smooth, leading from body and in control of their arms.


That said, for beginners I would say it's better to be too strong (use more strength) in the lead/follow than too weak. You can dance well with strong lead, but you can't dance at all with spaghetti arms. Learning to relax takes more time. But remember, don't be stiff in your arms. It should be smooth, even when it's strong.

Also keep in mind that leading yourself is evil. Always try to follow what is lead, insted of moving as you anticipate. Doing the latter will only confuse the lead. He will not feel the result of his lead. And the connection will be broken, making it impossible to continue leading properly. Walking through a pattern without being lead should only be done when showing the pattern. Or if absolutely necessary to keep up with a choreography (one reason choreographies should not be used too much in classes.)

[dTas]

i get that question a lot... "can you dance with him and show him how it feels?"

which is really strange if you look at what she's asking..."can you dance with him and make him feel what i'm feeling when i'm dancing with you?"

you can do it to some extent. you know what you're concentrating on when you're dancing with a lady to produce a certain result so you can help communicate that to the male student but when it boils down to it i end up talking more than actually showing him how it "feels."

but i do agree that things of this detail are better addressed in a private lesson than in a group setting. lots of times people have too high of expectations as to what they're going to get out of a group class. its a groups class... any instruction that can not be generalized to a group is better saved for a private lesson.