Faking it...

[Pacion]

Is it possible for someone who does not know much about salsa to "fake it" when talking about it? Of course, they can't do this in practice ie. on the dancefloor - unless they are leading and just know a few "choice" patterns.

But, in conversations or even in discussion forums, do you think it is possible? If you think it is possible, why? How? What key things do you think they would need to know something about in order to successfully do so, even if it is for a short period of time? Yes, internet research/googling is included :wink:

If you think it isn't possible, why do you think so? How do you think the person would reveal themselves to be faking it?

[tacad]

:lol: This promises to be intriguing. By the way, have I mentioned what a great salsa dancer I am?

[Pacion]

:lol: No tacad :wink:

[amrimi]

I think it would be much easier for a good follower than a leader to fake salsa. I Know a guy how can dance with any woman in a way that it looks like they are doing it for years even so they've never danced a step of salsa before.

[Pacion]

I think it would be much easier for a good follower than a leader to fake salsa.

I am trying to imagine it, but is it possible for someone to be a good follower if they have no/little understanding of the dance/moves?

I agree! There are some guys/leads who can make a follower (good or otherwise) look like they have been doing it for years. It has happened to me! :lol:

[Sagitta]

Oh, I fake it pretty well, I think. :wink: :)

[peachexploration]

It think it is MUCH easier to find/reveal when it comes time to "putting your money where your mouth is" so to speak, as with anything. Anyone can talk a good game, throw a few choice terms here or there. Just like some do in a job interview. They say in the interview that they can do all this stuff and then when comes time to "show" or on their first day of work, everything will be revealed at that point. For Salsa, someone may say I am the greatest salser@ there ever was and then you dance with them and they cannot find the basic rhythm. So yes, it very possible to fake it. Quite a few have won competitions this way as well.

[Sagitta]

It think it is MUCH easier to find/reveal when it comes time to "putting your money where your mouth is" so to speak, as with anything. Anyone can talk a good game, throw a few choice terms here or there. Just like some do in a job interview. They say in the interview that they can do all this stuff and then when comes time to "show" or on their first day of work, everything will be revealed at that point. For Salsa, someone may say I am the greatest salser@ there ever was and then you dance with them and they cannot find the basic rhythm. So yes, it very possible to fake it. Quite a few have won competitions this way as well.

Well, then I guess we must dance peach!

[Vin]

How many people that dance salsa know there is a difference between on1 and on2?
Most don't
How many people who dance salsa know the difference.
Most don't
How many could tell the difference if they saw it?
Most couldn't
How many people that dance salsa know what a Dile Que No is?
Most don't
How many people that dance salsa know what a salsa congress is?
Most don't
My point is that it would be incredibly hard to spot a well infromed fake or even a not so well informed fake. You could accuse me of being a fake for not knowing about the above things but I would reply "I just listen to the music and dance" and that would pretty much be the end of the discusion. Even once I got on the dance floor and stunk up the place I would say "You are good but you don't dance with the flavor that I have."
My point is even if you saw a faker on the dance floor it would still be very hard to prove that they are a fake.
Edit: As peach said, some fakes even win competitions.

[peachexploration]

Yup, we can fake it together. :wink: :lol:

[tacad]

How many people that dance salsa know there is a difference between on1 and on2?
Most don't
How many people who dance salsa know the difference.
Most don't
How many could tell the difference if they saw it?
Most couldn't
How many people that dance salsa know what a Dile Que No is?
Most don't
How many people that dance salsa know what a salsa congress is?
Most don't
My point is that it would be incredibly hard to spot a well infromed fake or even a not so well informed fake. You could accuse me of being a fake for not knowing about the above things but I would reply "I just listen to the music and dance" and that would pretty much be the end of the discusion. Even once I got on the dance floor and stunk up the place I would say "You are good but you don't dance with the flavor that I have."
My point is even if you saw a faker on the dance floor it would still be very hard to prove that they are a fake.
Edit: As peach said, some fakes even win competitions.
Since I've been reading DF I can answer all but the last question but I certainly am not a salsa dancer. So good point. The only thing I know about salsa congresses is that people ask other people "Are you going to the congress in January?" or "Did you go to the congress in October?" or tell each other about the dweebs that went there. :wink:

[tj]

How many people that dance salsa know there is a difference between on1 and on2?
Most don't
How many people who dance salsa know the difference.
Most don't
How many could tell the difference if they saw it?
Most couldn't
How many people that dance salsa know what a Dile Que No is?
Most don't
How many people that dance salsa know what a salsa congress is?
Most don't
My point is that it would be incredibly hard to spot a well infromed fake or even a not so well informed fake. You could accuse me of being a fake for not knowing about the above things but I would reply "I just listen to the music and dance" and that would pretty much be the end of the discusion. Even once I got on the dance floor and stunk up the place I would say "You are good but you don't dance with the flavor that I have."
My point is even if you saw a faker on the dance floor it would still be very hard to prove that they are a fake.
Edit: As peach said, some fakes even win competitions.
Since I've been reading DF I can answer all but the last question but I certainly am not a salsa dancer. So good point. The only thing I know about salsa congresses is that people ask other people "Are you going to the congress in January?" or "Did you go to the congress in October?" or tell each other about the dweebs that went there. :wink:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[tj]

I've known more than a couple of people over the years who acted like they were experts and no one else knew as much as they did. It sounded good, but then actually dancing with them, or having them dance with people you knew tended to bring out the fallacies in what they preached.

[n4t4c4]

How many people that dance salsa know what a Dile Que No is?
Most don't


What is a Dile Que No? :oops: :oops: :oops:

And my second question: What makes a 'fake' a fake?

[Flat Shoes]

I'm a lousy dancer, so I have to fake a decent lead when dancing. Thankfully noone has discovered that it's just fake yet. 8)

[Pacion]

:lol: Flat shoes!


How many people that dance salsa know what a Dile Que No is?
Most don't


What is a Dile Que No? :oops: :oops: :oops:

And my second question: What makes a 'fake' a fake?

n4t404, "Dile Que No" is the cuban word for a move that is, in my opinion, the cuban equivalent for a cross body lead. The man's body position is slightly different in a Dile Que No, but the result is the same.

[peachexploration]

To elaborate on Pacion's response. Dile Que No is associated with Salsa Casino/Casino Rueda styles.

EDIT: In Salsa Casino, Dile Que No is a Cross Body lead. In Casino Rueda, Dile Que No is a Cross Body Lead and a partner change.

[youngsta]

I think you can fake it to a point if you do enough reading. But as soon as you dance with a DFer your secret will be out!! :lol: No faking on this end whatsoever!! :wink:

[clave]

I think you can fake it to a point if you do enough reading. But as soon as you dance with a DFer your secret will be out!! :lol: No faking on this end whatsoever!! :wink:
Hey, maybe we should have a DF salsa certification, you get to use an avatar with the word "fake" crossed out? 8) Any follows in Southern Cali willing to certify me? jenn, are you going to Tapas tomorrow? ;)

I'm a lousy dancer, so I have to fake a decent lead when dancing. Thankfully noone has discovered that it's just fake yet. :lol: :lol: :lol:


I've known more than a couple of people over the years who acted like they were experts and no one else knew as much as they did. It sounded good, but then actually dancing with them, or having them dance with people you knew tended to bring out the fallacies in what they preached.
I've known quite a few people who seemed like experts at some point in the past. Then I would improve, and upon meeting them again months later I would get disappointed, realizing I hadn't been able to distinguish OK dancers from really good dancers. As Albie said, it's all relative. 8)

[tj]

On a sidenote: I have to say that I strongly encourage any and all DFers to meet up whenever possible. So much fun!

[Vin]

Yes it is, If I am eligible to certify then TJ is a certified salsero.

[tj]

Yes it is, If I am eligible to certify then TJ is a certified salsero.

Hmm, but if I certify your certification, it wouldn't be very certain, would it? :wink:

(ps. Yes, I'll "certify" Vin, too. :roll: Lol!)

[Vin]

I have an idea, how about if people pay us to travel around the world and give them "certified salsero/salsera" status. It's a rough job but someone will have to do it.

Anyone need certification?

[peachexploration]

:lol: :lol: :lol: Too funny!

[sunderi]

I have an idea, how about if people pay us to travel around the world and give them "certified salsero/salsera" status. It's a rough job but someone will have to do it.

Anyone need certification?

I do! I do! But there's not much travel involved in that, is there? ;)

[Vin]

In your case Sunderi no, TJ and I live in the DC area.

[tj]

Lol - or even better we can declare ourselves the World Salsa Champions, and start promoting competitions/certifications where we declare our own students to be the winners over everyone else.

(sound familiar? :twisted: )

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

To me, the expression "faking it" means someone who doesn´t know how to do a certain thing and tries to convince people otherwise.

It has nothing to do with the level you are at. I wouldn´t say that with the exception of the advanced dancers, instructors or pros, everyone else is "faking it".

I believe if someone has picked up certain salsa/dance related terms and uses their common sense, they could probably fake it for a while. Now, on the dancefloor that´s any matter. If you don´t know how to salsa, you´ll be easily exposed. :P

[Jamie]

Make me wonder why people even bother to fake it though? I mean, what's the point?

I am guessing ...

Feelings of not being good enough?
Desire to fit in and be accepted by peers?
Wanting respect?

Isn't it just better to admit you're a beginner and don't really know what you're doing and whatever you do you always seem to get it 'wrong' (a lot) ... year after year ... (oh damn it ... that's me).

Yep ... I think that's much better :)

[Pacion]

Make me wonder why people even bother to fake it though? I mean, what's the point?

People do it all the time - you have the "professionals" who basically go set out to con people usually out of something valuable eg. money and then you have the "amateurs" or "bluffers" who don't know much but will learn a few key words/phrases to get by.

There is even a series of books called "Bluff your way in [insert subject]" or "The Bluffer's Guide to [insert subject]". One synopsis for one book had "The titles in this humorous series includes facts, jargon and inside information - all you need to know for instant expertise"

Whether it is with good or bad intentions, people do do it.

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

Make me wonder why people even bother to fake it though? I mean, what's the point?

I am guessing ...

Feelings of not being good enough?
Desire to fit in and be accepted by peers?
Wanting respect?

Exactly. These and other reasons. Then you feel humilated afterwards when someone finds out the truth. :wink:

[BrookeErin]

I am a fake :oops:
I can dance... I'm told that I'm good - I try to take compliments from men in bars with a grain of salt, but I hear it from some women too.
I know some terminology, but not nearly all the questions posed. I'm learning a lot from DF though.
Can I still play with y'all or am I banned? :(

[Jamie]

I am a fake :oops:
I can dance... I'm told that I'm good - I try to take compliments from men in bars with a grain of salt, but I hear it from some women too.
I know some terminology, but not nearly all the questions posed. I'm learning a lot from DF though.
Can I still play with y'all or am I banned? :(

I think being a fake is just as valid as being genuine ... it's all a big game ... play it your way baby ...

Just make sure that if you're a fake ... you're a genuine fake ;-)

[peachexploration]

Just make sure that if you're a fake ... you're a genuine fake ;-) :D

[tacad]

I am a fake :oops:
I can dance... I'm told that I'm good - I try to take compliments from men in bars with a grain of salt, but I hear it from some women too.
I know some terminology, but not nearly all the questions posed. I'm learning a lot from DF though.
Can I still play with y'all or am I banned? :(
Hmmm. Let me think. Gorgeous red-head?---or no gorgeous red-head?---This is a toughy! Hmmm.

Note: This was actually posted earlier for 3 seconds but some how I was worried about flirting with two women in the space of 5 minutes so I took it down. Definitely the wrong decision. So BrookeErin, do you consider yourself to have been flirted with?

[Vin]

The point of those questions wasn't as a way to weed out fakes. It was to show that there is no way to weed out fakes. The terminology I gave in no way defines salsa, yet they are terms that can be associated with salsa.

[BrookeErin]

oh, honey, that's not flirting :wink: You gotta try harder than that...

[tacad]

Ahhh! The lady likes a strong lead. Very nice. 8)

[Sabor]

who cares who's fake or not..?

far as i'm concerned.. i really dont take anything for granted.. untill/unless its on the dancefloor.. thats where it is.. where it stays.. ma place http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/spezial/Fool/fkr.gif

[BrookeErin]

Ahhh! The lady likes a strong lead. Very nice. 8)

Yes, sir :wink:

[Sagitta]

Ahhh! The lady likes a strong lead. Very nice. 8)

Yes, sir :wink: Come to me after a cha cha cha then, or for a cha cha cha. My lead is usually very light....light...like a feather floating on cluds...

Cha cha cha gets me really assertive!! :wink: :)

[tacad]

:lol: Hmmm. I think something has been started here. :lol: I'm sensing a pattern.

ROTFL!

[Sagitta]

:lol: Hmmm. I think something has been started here. :lol: I'm sensing a pattern.

ROTFL!

I wonder what's goin' on tcad.... :?

[tacad]

I am a fake :oops:
I can dance... I'm told that I'm good - I try to take compliments from men in bars with a grain of salt, but I hear it from some women too.
I know some terminology, but not nearly all the questions posed. I'm learning a lot from DF though.
Can I still play with y'all or am I banned? :(
BrookeErin, when you say you are a fake do you mean...oh, do you mean that you fake dancing? You don't think you are good but other people think you are and so you are faking them out? Is that what you mean?

EDIT: Or were you thinking that those questions were a test and since you didn't know them you did not pass the test. Ahh! That's what Vin's last post meant. Boy am I bright tonight! :lol:

[tacad]

:lol: Hmmm. I think something has been started here. :lol: I'm sensing a pattern.

ROTFL!

I wonder what's goin' on tcad.... :?
Ehhh. Maybe nothing. Never mind. :wink:

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

How about the concept of faking it "in the opposite direction". I mean pretending you don´t know how to do a certain thing that you´re really good at. 8)

I sometimes do this :twisted:. I love seeing the expression on their faces. It´s usually something like this :shock:. LOL!

[BrookeErin]

tacad, I just mean that I have never taken lessons... I know what I picked up... maybe that's true street-style. I can't say I know how, but I certainly can dance it.

I get those looks too. I never pretend I can't do something, but people are sometimes surprised at how much I can do. It just comes from a background in dance (cheerleading, hip hop, swing, bellydancing, and some tap and ballet when I was a kid)... I trust my leads, I'm flexible, and can either do or try anything that has been led so far. Or I get those looks when I incoporate other dance stuff into whatever I'm doing.

[tj]

How about the concept of faking it "in the opposite direction". I mean pretending you don´t know how to do a certain thing that you´re really good at. 8)

I sometimes do this :twisted:. I love seeing the expression on their faces. It´s usually something like this :shock:. LOL!

A friend of mine did this the other day... He asked a gal to dance and she gave one of those: "Do you know how? (sneer)" And he gave a smart remark, "I manage."

She declined, and was later pissed to see that he knew what he was doing. :wink:

[tj]

Lol! I think we have a few new "DF Flirts" around here! :wink:

[Sabor]

How about the concept of faking it "in the opposite direction". I mean pretending you don´t know how to do a certain thing that you´re really good at. 8)

I sometimes do this :twisted:. I love seeing the expression on their faces. It´s usually something like this :shock:. LOL!

A friend of mine did this the other day... He asked a gal to dance and she gave one of those: "Do you know how? (sneer)" And he gave a smart remark, "I manage."

She declined, and was later pissed to see that he knew what he was doing. :wink:

high five to the brotha! 8)

[tacad]

Ahhh! The lady likes a strong lead. Very nice. 8)

Yes, sir :wink:
I see, and does she like her strong lead to be smooth and cultured, or more rough and untamed? Many moves led on the dance floor? Or just a few so she can express herself?

[azzey]

How about the concept of faking it "in the opposite direction". I mean pretending you don´t know how to do a certain thing that you´re really good at. 8)

I sometimes do this :twisted:. I love seeing the expression on their faces. It´s usually something like this :shock:. LOL!

A friend of mine did this the other day... He asked a gal to dance and she gave one of those: "Do you know how? (sneer)" And he gave a smart remark, "I manage."

She declined, and was later pissed to see that he knew what he was doing. :wink:

I've been asked a few times the same question by girls or others like "are you any good?" or "I only dance Cuban style..." after she's seen me dancing LA style and I couldn't possibly be able to dance with her.

Usually I find the girl is not that experienced. If she has a good attitude I'm nice to her, if not then I give her a more hard time - a few more complicated moves, but still lead well.. to bring her down off that pedistal she put herself on. :twisted:

[BrookeErin]

Ahhh! The lady likes a strong lead. Very nice. 8)

Yes, sir :wink:
I see, and does she like her strong lead to be smooth and cultured, or more rough and untamed? Many moves led on the dance floor? Or just a few so she can express herself?

yes, depending on the situation.... but probably leaning more towards smooth with lots of moves

[tacad]

Ahhh! The lady likes a strong lead. Very nice. 8)

Yes, sir :wink:
I see, and does she like her strong lead to be smooth and cultured, or more rough and untamed? Many moves led on the dance floor? Or just a few so she can express herself?

yes, depending on the situation.... but probably leaning more towards smooth with lots of moves
Ok...good so far. I am more naturally smooth than rough. The number of moves I do tends to depend on the lady and how....oh...desirous she is to move. The more she dares me, the more I try to up the ante. Some women inspire me to do moves I've never tried before! So how much would you dare me, Miss BrookeErin?

[BrookeErin]

I'll try anything... you just have to lead it.

[tacad]

But will you look me in the eye and say with your eyes, "You want me? But are you good enough?" Will you with your style say, "You want me to do a stylish turn? You had better give me your best" When flirted with will you say, "oh, honey, that's not flirting :wink: You gotta try harder than that..."?

And is there a hint of promise? Without the dare, too easy. Without the hint of promise, no point.

[BrookeErin]

ummm......

And is there a hint of promise? Without the dare, too easy. Without the hint of promise, no point.

agreed :wink:

[tacad]

Hmmm. Very intriguing 8). How about the dancing attitude? Coy? Brazen? In your face? Shy? I doubt shy. Reserved? Maybe, until you see what's up.

[BrookeErin]

My dancing attitude.... coy, brazen, fun, sensual.... depending... rarely to never reserved or shy

[tacad]

Oooh! :bouncy:

[tacad]

My style depends on the music and lady as well. Sensual is awesome. I haven't found many women able to really pull that off. Great when it happens. Love that coy look. I enjoy a push-pull type of dance. Look at each other, look away, a whole bunch of tension between us as though neither partner is willing to give in and the tension keeps building and changing and buliding.

So Miss BrookeErin, is tension good for you?

[BrookeErin]

sure 8)

Why so interested? Planning a trip to Indy soon?

[tacad]

:lol: Oh, you're good! I am interested because you are interesting. And I like interesting people. And if she happens to be a gorgeous redhead who does salsa and likes to play on DF, so much the better.

Hmmm. Indiana...

[youngsta]

http://smilies.jeeptalk.org/otn/love/smlove2.gif

[tacad]

Ignoring that untimely interruption :lol: , BrookeErin, here is why you are interesting (in a good way). Your avatar is you having a good, fun time and at the same time quite sexy. Putting it up was bold. Your posts have been playful and intelligent. What really got me going is you not settling for something less than you deserve. If a guy doesn't have the courage to talk to you he is not worth your time. Not in an arrogant way, but self-esteem. That makes you very attractive. And of course this quote: "oh, honey, that's not flirting :wink: You gotta try harder than that..." was mischeivous, confident, playful, and daring. And that was it! I had to move.

See you around DF :wink: !

[BrookeErin]

Ignoring that untimely interruption :lol: , BrookeErin, here is why you are interesting (in a good way). Your avatar is you having a good, fun time and at the same time quite sexy. Putting it up was bold. Your posts have been playful and intelligent. What really got me going is you not settling for something less than you deserve. If a guy doesn't have the courage to talk to you he is not worth your time. Not in an arrogant way, but self-esteem. That makes you very attractive. And of course this quote: "oh, honey, that's not flirting :wink: You gotta try harder than that..." was mischeivous, confident, playful, and daring. And that was it! I had to move.

See you around DF :wink: !

Thank you. But how is the avator bold? Most people aroud here have an avatar... I'm just blessed that our salsa community seems to take pictures fairly often.

[salsachinita]

Is it possible for someone who does not know much about salsa to "fake it" when talking about it? Of course, they can't do this in practice ie. on the dancefloor - unless they are leading and just know a few "choice" patterns.

But, in conversations or even in discussion forums, do you think it is possible? If you think it is possible, why? How? What key things do you think they would need to know something about in order to successfully do so, even if it is for a short period of time? Yes, internet research/googling is included :wink:

If you think it isn't possible, why do you think so? How do you think the person would reveal themselves to be faking it?

Back to the original thread for a minute, kids :wink: .........

Yes, Pacion. Excellent question. I've been contemplating a couple of issues lately (though not directly relating to being a 'fake')...........

I know some veteran salsa legends who have solid 'street-cred' but don't know a thing about some of the things we talk about here at DF (ie. anything congress, the on1/on2 camps amongst other things), nor do they care.......

While there are also people who can quote 'catch phrases' ( :wink: ) left, right and centre while you converse, but when it come time to show true flave, no one is home :roll: ..........

Makes you wonder sometimes :? ..........

[tacad]

Thank you. But how is the avator bold? Most people aroud here have an avatar... I'm just blessed that our salsa community seems to take pictures fairly often.
An avatar is some kind of representation of the person. By your avatar we know that you are fun and sexy. This is part of how we identify you. Backed up by your posts. Some people walk into a room and try to melt into the background. You are not trying to be invisible. You are here and a presence. Your avatar is part of that. Anyway that is what I was thinking.

[BrookeErin]

good point.... as a counselor, I try to be pretty aware of my public persona. I'm a part of another board which is private, so I didn't really think about posting a pic or anything else. I have no shame about my dancer lifestyle, but perhaps I should consult my inner censor before posting.... :?

[youngsta]

How many people that dance salsa know what a Dile Que No is?
Most don't


What is a Dile Que No? :oops: :oops: :oops:
It's just a crossbody lead.

[delamusica]

sorry - just catching up to this thread . . .

Yes it is, If I am eligible to certify then TJ is a certified salsero.

I second!

[tacad]

sure 8)

Why so interested? Planning a trip to Indy soon?
Uhhh. Not now. Too cold! Too much snow!

Actually it was a bit cold in LA today. I even had to put on my light jacket over my T-shirt for a bit! :wink:

Are you and everybody ok over there?

[BrookeErin]

well, it's above freezing in the daylight. Where I am, they've cleared the snow off the major roads, but some of the other interstates are having problems.

[Twilight_Elena]

How many people that dance salsa know there is a difference between on1 and on2?
Most don't
How many people who dance salsa know the difference.
Most don't
How many could tell the difference if they saw it?
Most couldn't
How many people that dance salsa know what a Dile Que No is?
Most don't
How many people that dance salsa know what a salsa congress is?
Most don't

Hmm. I can answer all these questions with a pretty strong "Well, I do!" but I'm not to be considered a good salsa dancer or anything. I'm such a newbie (only 9 months of salsa, only 1h per week! :shock: ) and you can count the moves/patterns I know using just your fingers (toes not included :lol: ) but I'm willing to learn! What does that make me?

Twilight Elena

[azzey]

To elaborate on Pacion's response. Dile Que No is associated with Salsa Casino/Casino Rueda styles.

EDIT: In Salsa Casino, Dile Que No is a Cross Body lead. In Casino Rueda, Dile Que No is a Cross Body Lead and a partner change.

.. and partner change? Normally you'd just do a Dile Que No then move into an open hand-hold and perform the next move called or a Guapea basic step. If the caller shouted Dile Que No when you are already in open position then you might change partners *and* do the Dile Que No with your new partner.

Mr. Picky.

Are we faking it today? :wink:

[peachexploration]

To elaborate on Pacion's response. Dile Que No is associated with Salsa Casino/Casino Rueda styles.

EDIT: In Salsa Casino, Dile Que No is a Cross Body lead. In Casino Rueda, Dile Que No is a Cross Body Lead and a partner change.

.. and partner change? Normally you'd just do a Dile Que No then move into an open hand-hold and perform the next move called or a Guapea basic step. If the caller shouted Dile Que No when you are already in open position then you might change partners *and* do the Dile Que No with your new partner.

Mr. Picky.

Are we faking it today? :wink:

Well, since the Dile Que No "isn't" called in most cases, the "partner change" is just a "given" depending on the move. And to get really technical, the "actual partner change call" is "Dame".

[azzey]

To elaborate on Pacion's response. Dile Que No is associated with Salsa Casino/Casino Rueda styles.

EDIT: In Salsa Casino, Dile Que No is a Cross Body lead. In Casino Rueda, Dile Que No is a Cross Body Lead and a partner change.

.. and partner change? Normally you'd just do a Dile Que No then move into an open hand-hold and perform the next move called or a Guapea basic step. If the caller shouted Dile Que No when you are already in open position then you might change partners *and* do the Dile Que No with your new partner.

Mr. Picky.

Are we faking it today? :wink:

Well, since the Dile Que No "isn't" called in most cases, the "partner change" is just a "given" depending on the move. And to get really technical, the "actual partner change call" is "Dame".

Agreed. Your original post seemed to suggest the partner change was *after* the dile que no, i.e. dile que no then partner change - i.e. an additional Dame.

[africana]

interesting thread! faking it huh? I'm assuming Pacion was sorta questioning people's dancing abilities versus talk/bragging - which is not quite the same as transmitting information (e.g. from internet research) to anwer some question, which anyone can do right?
Although it's pretty easy to misrepresent oneself or portray a different image than what actually is...but words are so imprecise that personally, I mostly choose to suspend my belief ;) until such a time as my eyes witness the truth :twisted:

So yeah I'm with youngsta/tj/vin let's have DFers certify everyone :lol: just kidding! though I admit to being curious about some (except youngsta, Beto, meagalita, TICA, Big10, and a couple more whom I've seen in action ;0 )

[Salsablaster]

Well, since the Dile Que No "isn't" called in most cases, the "partner change" is just a "given" depending on the move. And to get really technical, the "actual partner change call" is "Dame".

Also you can do a " Dile que No " with a " Coca-Cola " when dancing One-on-One .

"Coca-Cola" is another cuban style turn, the girl tends to turn from right to left grabbing left hand partner and girl with the right hand after doing "Dile Que No".

[azzey]

Well, since the Dile Que No "isn't" called in most cases, the "partner change" is just a "given" depending on the move. And to get really technical, the "actual partner change call" is "Dame".

Also you can do a " Dile que No " with a " Coca-Cola " when dancing One-on-One .

"Coca-Cola" is another cuban style turn, the girl tends to turn from right to left grabbing left hand partner and girl with the right hand after doing "Dile Que No".

Your quote is not from me, it's from Peachexploration. :lol:

[Ron Obvious]

:lol: Flat shoes!


How many people that dance salsa know what a Dile Que No is?
Most don't


What is a Dile Que No? :oops: :oops: :oops:

And my second question: What makes a 'fake' a fake?

n4t404, "Dile Que No" is the cuban word for a move that is, in my opinion, the cuban equivalent for a cross body lead. The man's body position is slightly different in a Dile Que No, but the result is the same.

Hmmm, I know what a dile que no is, but I don't know what a cross-body lead is.

[MacMoto]

Hmmm, I know what a dile que no is, but I don't know what a cross-body lead is.
I take you dance Cuban style/Casino then.

[Twilight_Elena]

Hmmm, I know what a dile que no is, but I don't know what a cross-body lead is.
I take you dance Cuban style/Casino then.

Or Colombian style. We have Dile Que No in Colombian. In fact all the moves are in spanish...

Twilight Elena

[Sagitta]

To elaborate on Pacion's response. Dile Que No is associated with Salsa Casino/Casino Rueda styles.

EDIT: In Salsa Casino, Dile Que No is a Cross Body lead. In Casino Rueda, Dile Que No is a Cross Body Lead and a partner change.

.. and partner change? Normally you'd just do a Dile Que No then move into an open hand-hold and perform the next move called or a Guapea basic step. If the caller shouted Dile Que No when you are already in open position then you might change partners *and* do the Dile Que No with your new partner.

Mr. Picky.

Are we faking it today? :wink:

Well, since the Dile Que No "isn't" called in most cases, the "partner change" is just a "given" depending on the move. And to get really technical, the "actual partner change call" is "Dame".

ACtually either can be called. What is called depends on the situation. THere are certain moves where dil que no is called to get into gupea basic step. Other times dame is called.

[Sabor]

i hear that no less than 50% of women fake it :shock:

[squirrel]

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: Sabor dear, are you all right?

[peachexploration]

i hear that no less than 50% of women fake it :shock:

Really? I try my best not to. Well, I take that back. I have tried the press-on nails but they kept getting caught in my keyboard. You know, it's just no fun and it takes too much energy pulling them out the keyboard, not to mention the injuries. :lol: :P

[Sabor]

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: Sabor dear, are you all right?

yeah.. but you make me wana be all wrong :mrgreen:

[MacMoto]

To elaborate on Pacion's response. Dile Que No is associated with Salsa Casino/Casino Rueda styles.

EDIT: In Salsa Casino, Dile Que No is a Cross Body lead. In Casino Rueda, Dile Que No is a Cross Body Lead and a partner change.

.. and partner change? Normally you'd just do a Dile Que No then move into an open hand-hold and perform the next move called or a Guapea basic step. If the caller shouted Dile Que No when you are already in open position then you might change partners *and* do the Dile Que No with your new partner.

Mr. Picky.

Are we faking it today? :wink:

Well, since the Dile Que No "isn't" called in most cases, the "partner change" is just a "given" depending on the move. And to get really technical, the "actual partner change call" is "Dame".

ACtually either can be called. What is called depends on the situation. THere are certain moves where dil que no is called to get into gupea basic step. Other times dame is called.
My understanding has been that when Dile Que No is called you stay with the same partner, whereas Dame is "partner change + Dile Que No" -- am I right, or is it a regional thing?

[peachexploration]

....My understanding has been that when Dile Que No is called you stay with the same partner, whereas Dame is "partner change + Dile Que No" -- am I right, or is it a regional thing?That's correct, Mac. For the most part, "Dame" is called as far as I know, when it's a "direct" partner change. Otherwise, depending upon the move, Dile Que No is just given or done automagically. :) The only time I've heard Dile Que No actually called is in class while teaching students.

[Twilight_Elena]

i hear that no less than 50% of women fake it :shock:

Really? I try my best not to. Well, I take that back. I have tried the press-on nails but they kept getting caught in my keyboard. You know, it's just no fun and it takes too much energy pulling them out the keyboard, not to mention the injuries. :lol: :P

I alwas wondered about those press-on nails. Are they any good at faking it?
...And by that I mean, are they a sign that you're all-knowledgeable?
LOL Sabor :lol:

Twilight Elena

[squirrel]

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: Sabor dear, are you all right?

yeah.. but you make me wana be all wrong :mrgreen:

I usually have such effect on some men... :( Maybe those who are afraid of me... ;)

[MacMoto]

....My understanding has been that when Dile Que No is called you stay with the same partner, whereas Dame is "partner change + Dile Que No" -- am I right, or is it a regional thing?That's correct, Mac. For the most part, "Dame" is called as far as I know, when it's a "direct" partner change. Otherwise, depending upon the move, Dile Que No is just given or done automagically. :) The only time I've heard Dile Que No actually called is in class while teaching students.
I've heard Dile Que No called in social rueda where everybody gets all tangled up :shock: :lol: and Dile Que No is called to untangle ourselves back into a circle. I can't remember the call that got us into a mighty knot... I think it was Taro with something else.

[Salsablaster]

Ok peep, here is a sample of a video clip that it shows dile que no. Notice when the guys stan up and do the turn to the girls, they do a dile que no in the Rueda. Also look at i t every time they change partners they do Dile que no.

http://www.salsacasino.com/videos/

Also you can check below in the table other turns they do in the Rueda.

Enjoy the samples. :)

[Guarachero]

Is it possible for someone who does not know much about salsa to "fake it" when talking about it? Of course, they can't do this in practice ie. on the dancefloor - unless they are leading and just know a few "choice" patterns.

But, in conversations or even in discussion forums, do you think it is possible? If you think it is possible, why? How? What key things do you think they would need to know something about in order to successfully do so, even if it is for a short period of time? Yes, internet research/googling is included :wink:

If you think it isn't possible, why do you think so? How do you think the person would reveal themselves to be faking it?

Pacion:

That's interesting :!: :o I never explored into that. But I think it would be hard to fake it. I also think that experience in dancing bleeds through the posts and conversations. Some how.

I don't know anyone here, but I'm willing to sustain that Kansas City Salseros can benefit by going to those places you all are. They may learn something. I mean, to go into some details, as most people do here, you have to know your stuff :cheers: :bouncy: :banana: :applause: :notworth:

Guarachero

[africana]

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: Sabor dear, are you all right?

yeah.. but you make me wana be all wrong :mrgreen: :lol:
he's too much :lol:

[Vin]

Is it possible for someone who does not know much about salsa to "fake it" when talking about it? Of course, they can't do this in practice ie. on the dancefloor - unless they are leading and just know a few "choice" patterns.

But, in conversations or even in discussion forums, do you think it is possible? If you think it is possible, why? How? What key things do you think they would need to know something about in order to successfully do so, even if it is for a short period of time? Yes, internet research/googling is included :wink:

If you think it isn't possible, why do you think so? How do you think the person would reveal themselves to be faking it?

Pacion:

That's interesting :!: :o I never explored into that. But I think it would be hard to fake it. I also think that experience in dancing bleeds through the posts and conversations. Some how.

I don't know anyone here, but I'm willing to sustain that Kansas City Salseros can benefit by going to those places you all are. They may learn something. I mean, to go into some details, as most people do here, you have to know your stuff :cheers: :bouncy: :banana: :applause: :notworth:

Guarachero

Not that I doubt anyone's competence,(I prefer to just not think about it) but I disagree with you here, I believe it is very possible to talk a good game and then not really be a dancer.

[Ron Obvious]

Hmmm, I know what a dile que no is, but I don't know what a cross-body lead is.
I take you dance Cuban style/Casino then.

Yes. And all our teachers are cuban.

[Guarachero]

Vin:

You probably right. But I find it difficult for someone to talk about things they don't know :roll:

For example, I can't talk about Tango because I don't know how to Tango :(

Guarachero

[Sagitta]

If you hang out along enough you sort of learn the lingo... :wink: :)

[Guarachero]

If you hang out along enough you sort of learn the lingo... :wink: :)

In that case, it may be easier to learn the dance, not just the lingo :wink: If you hang out long enough :roll: you just learn to do it. I don't know, but Salsa is so easy to learn that it sounds hard for me to think that someone would not know how if they are at the scenne of the action :D

Guarachero

[Sagitta]

If you hang out along enough you sort of learn the lingo... :wink: :)

In that case, it may be easier to learn the dance, not just the lingo :wink: If you hang out long enough :roll: you just learn to do it. I don't know, but Salsa is so easy to learn that it sounds hard for me to think that someone would not know how if they are at the scenne of the action :D

Guarachero

hang out long enough on df. :P Kind of hard to learn it online... :wink: :)

[Guarachero]

OK, Sagitta, I got it. :D :D :D Do you think that those people can learn to talk Salsa just by reading posts? :roll:

And :headwall: of course :doh: If they hang out at the dance venue, they may learn.

[tj]

Not that I doubt anyone's competence,(I prefer to just not think about it) but I disagree with you here, I believe it is very possible to talk a good game and then not really be a dancer.

Yes, I have known lots of folks who try to act like they know everything about a subject, and tell everyone else that they're wrong, but aren't able to back up their theories on the dance floor.

You and I know someone in our scene who is this way.

[Vin]

"someone?" singular?

[Vin]

The person I THINK you are talking about wouldn't even be an example in my opinion. Reason being is he actually has quite a bit of ability and skill as a dancer. Plus what he does works for him and there are some ladies that really enjoy dancing with him, just as there are some that dread it.
His major fault, in my opinion, is his complete lack of consideration for a) his partner, b) anyone around him, c) anyone who is not him.

[tj]

The person I THINK you are talking about wouldn't even be an example in my opinion. Reason being is he actually has quite a bit of ability and skill as a dancer. Plus what he does works for him and there are some ladies that really enjoy dancing with him, just as there are some that dread it.
His major fault, in my opinion, is his complete lack of consideration for a) his partner, b) anyone around him, c) anyone who is not him.

Yes, you have the right person, and yes, your 3 points are true IMHO.

But might I add that he tries to act like his is the only valid way, and that anyone else's way is wrong.

[Vin]

I haven't spent enough time talking,(wouldn't it actually be listening) to him in order to know that. Yes, I agree that attitude sucks.

[pygmalion]

I'm intrigued. But I won't ask. Sounds like a tough person to dance with. That's for sure. :?

[tj]

I'm intrigued. But I won't ask. Sounds like a tough person to dance with. That's for sure. :?

Well, he's got flava, and he totally throws himself into his dancing. And he can be fun to watch. But he draws a different type of dancer to him than what I like to dance with.

To each their own. I just don't like when he tries to force his view of what dancing is, on me.

[HF]

We have guy in our local salsa scene that showed up once in a salsa class for a month or so and then decided that he would not need any lessons. He does a lot of pretzels, a lot of moves that involve touching the ladies hair, head and body, and some dips. Beginner ladies are quite impressed because they think he must be a wonderful dancer. And as far as I noticed he seems to be quite successful in certain other ways also ...

A girl friend of mine that is a good dancer occasionally dances with him and says that it has been fun at the first time because he dances very wildly but after a while it turned out to be more and more confusing. She asked herself why she alwas had the impression to be out of time until she found out that ...

... he dances hustle to salsa music (yes, he does one, two, tap, one, two, tap) ... :P and even with that he is hardly ever in time ... but what a show :shock:

Would that qualify for a fake?

[Twilight_Elena]

We have guy in our local salsa scene that showed up once in a salsa class for a month or so and then decided that he would not need any lessons. He does a lot of pretzels, a lot of moves that involve touching the ladies hair, head and body, and some dips. Beginner ladies are quite impressed because they think he must be a wonderful dancer. And as far as I noticed he seems to be quite successful in certain other ways also ...

A girl friend of mine that is a good dancer occasionally dances with him and says that it has been fun at the first time because he dances very wildly but after a while it turned out to be more and more confusing. She asked herself why she alwas had the impression to be out of time until she found out that ...

... he dances hustle to salsa music (yes, he does one, two, tap, one, two, tap) ... :P and even with that he is hardly ever in time ... but what a show :shock:

Would that qualify for a fake?

Yup. That's a fake. :roll:

Twilight Elena