Real tan vs. fake tan

[Chris Stratton]

So I hear that the new rules will ban fake tan for junior competitors.

But will "protecting" them from that icky stuff simply drive them to tanning beds, and associated issues such as premature aging of skin and cancer risk?

Or will anyone "who was on vacation last week" now be banned from these events?

[Laura]

You've been reading DanceScape again, eh Chris?

I soooo don't want to be discussing where a kid got his tan with an irate parent. However, it is easy to tell when a kid has been slathered with Pro Tan or a self-tanner, just look at the elbows and especially the ankles.

[heartgrl2k]

Ok, I don't compete, but to me this seems kind of ridiculous. I'm not a fan of the 'fake bake', but shouldn't the most important thing be the quality of your dance? Not to say that appearances don't count for much, they do -

I find it ironic that this is banned but the US seems to have a hard time deciding whether or not steroids should be illegal. Hmm....[/i]

[Laura]

The rules we are talking about are for dancers ages 13 and under.

Boys and girls will not be allowed to wear makeup, including fake tan, if dancing in a Pre-Teen (11 and under) or Junior I (12-13) events. Dancers in Junior II (14-15), Youth (16-18 ), and older events are allowed to wear tans, makeup, and adult-style costumes. The idea is to keep little kids looking like little kids and not be sexualizing them or making them look like the 6-year-old Jon Benet Ramsay-style beauty queens. I understand and admire the sentiment, but at the same time shudder to think of the arguments. I'm not going to be checking kids for tan lines, but if I see a super-dark kid with tell-tale fake tan splotches on their elbows, knees, and ankles then I'm going to send the Chairman of Judges to speak to the coach and parents.

Note that the rules are not in effect yet for USA Dance (USABDA) competitions. The new rule book won't come out until spring, and then there's a grace period of *I think* six months where rule violations will be pointed out so people can get a chance to correct them before they start being fully enforced.

[tasche]

Chris. In California it is now (as of a couple of months ago) illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to use a tanning bed.

I thik you can usually tell the difference between a fake/accerated tan vs a natural vacation tan as the natural will tone in with your normal skin undertones/colors

[tasche]

I think also that the no makeup/excessive costumes is a great idea for different reasons than the anti pagenty thing. At that age its going to be more of a mix of new kids and kids that have being dancing since they were6 months. Theres nothing worse for a kids than turning up to a comp all well scrubbed and sweaky clean and your competiors are all decked up and made up to an inch of their lives. Even before you step out onto the floor you feel beaten. Thats just my pov as a former kiddie competitor

[Laura]

You are totally on target, Tasche. Also, with rapidly-growing kids, you can keep their outfits very simple and spend less money as they change sizes and get taller. Heck, I bet the parents of the little kids spend a fortune on dance shoes what with growing feet....

[tasche]

I posted on the "other" board that you should keep some of those little acohol ( why can't I spell it I dont drink it) padsd that way when parents protest the authenticity of their kids tan you can swab their arm and if the swab is orange well their caught err orange handed

[Chris Stratton]

Chris. In California it is now (as of a couple of months ago) illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to use a tanning bed.

With good reason - but that's very hard to enforce outside of the walk-in commercial context.

[Larinda McRaven]

I think it fabulous.

I have been recieving a ballroom publication from England for almost 9 years now. The pictures of the juniors show girls with bobby socks and party dresses and boys with black pant and tie with a white shirt. I have long wondered why weren't here in the states were following more along these guidlines.

Enforcing any new policy that is in direct conflict with the way things are normally done is bound to be difficult. But I think persistance is crucial. And in a few years hopefully everyone will forget that we used to have slutty looking 7 year olds out there.

[tasche]

Chris. In California it is now (as of a couple of months ago) illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to use a tanning bed.

With good reason - but that's very hard to enforce outside of the walk-in commercial context.

Well yes obviously if the parents are rich enough to afford their own tanning bed then theres not alot you can do but in the case of a tanning salon you have to register and show id. I was doing the shake and bake for while but found I was getting too dehydrated so I stopped. My skin was fine but I was having killer nightmares during my afternoon siestas

[tasche]

I think it fabulous.

I have been recieving a ballroom publication from England for almost 9 years now. The pictures of the juniors show girls with bobby socks and party dresses and boys with black pant and tie with a white shirt. I have long wondered why weren't here in the states were following more along these guidlines.

Enforcing any new policy that is in direct conflict with the way things are normally done is bound to be difficult. But I think persistance is crucial. And in a few years hopefully everyone will forget that we used to have slutty looking 7 year olds out there.

Soo how do we get rid of all the other slutty non 7 year olds :twisted:

[Larinda McRaven]

Well I guess that is true, the trendy looks for children in general have gotten more risque every year.

Steves input, right now, was a big thumbs down. He just said "You will see a huge decline in participation. That is part of the reason why kids do it, they get to dress up"

I am not sure I agree with his reasoning...but it is something to think about.

[DancePoet]

I think it fabulous.

I have been recieving a ballroom publication from England for almost 9 years now. The pictures of the juniors show girls with bobby socks and party dresses and boys with black pant and tie with a white shirt. I have long wondered why were here in the states weren't following more along these guidlines.

Enforcing any new policy that is in direct conflict with the way things are normally done is bound to be difficult. But I think persistance is crucial. And in a few years hopefully everyone will forget that we used to have slutty looking 7 year olds out there.

Larinda, I am totally with you on this. I walked into my first youth competition on a Saturday morning here in New England. There was a mix of amazement in their skill level, and a shock of seeing what I saw for all the extras, clothing, makeup, pushy parents, and tans that looked completely out of place for this age group. And I've run into the enforcement of rule changes being a difficult issue in another athletic activity I officate in and persistence with fair warning is the key.

[tasche]

Kids may want to dress up but do they really want to voluntarily look like skanky hos ( pardon my french ) or is that what they have to do to win? If the criteria for winning was no longer having to madatorily look like a streetwalker then how many would do it anyways.

For those of you who have seen the documentary from Foxtrot to Tango ( an australian documentary that was the inspiration for strictly ballroom ) They have costumed and makeup kids shown in that but the look is more disney princesses that spice girls. It was that way when I was a kiddie competitor (girl/girl and we BOTH wore dresses!)

So unfortunately banned costumes and makeup its the only way to force taste and age appropriateness onto some parents

[Laura]

Steves input, right now, was a big thumbs down. He just said "You will see a huge decline in participation. That is part of the reason why kids do it, they get to dress up"

I hear that at the recent IDSF meeting in Australia that they might rethink some of the rules. I don't know if it's to make them even stricter or if it's to loosen them up a tiny bit. If I hear more I'll let you know. But right now the way the rules are written, a 13-and-under girl can't even wear rhinestone barettes in her hair. That's a little extreme on the "killjoy" scale.

[DancePoet]

Well I guess that is true, the trendy looks for children in general have gotten more risque every year.

Steves input, right now, was a big thumbs down. He just said "You will see a huge decline in participation. That is part of the reason why kids do it, they get to dress up"

I am not sure I agree with his reasoning...but it is something to think about.

Steve has an interesting viewpoint. Yet I feel kids can still get dressed up, and the level to which this can be done at can rise with the level of their age. Somehow it just doesn't feel right having a very young child dress in a provocative latin costume with a fake tan. If changing the rules changes the level of participation, maybe the focus of the parents and instructors needs to be different, and the children can then accept what the rules are, knowing that as they get older these rules will change, and that the focus for now needs to be doing what is important to get to the level where a child can do something else.

In the sport where I officiate, there are rules against jewelry and piercings being worn during competiton. The reason many kids have done this in the past is because some of the top athletic stars in this type of competiton are doing it. However, the banning of jewelry and piercings has not cut down on the participation levels, but it has decreased the likelihood of injuries and law suits.

[Chris Stratton]

I can understand mandatory minimum amounts of coverage in latin, but why the requirement for indecently short (knee-length) skirts in standard?

[Laura]

No idea. From looking at the draft for USA Dance it seemed that some things weren't thought through, and when I brought them up I was told that it was adapted wholesale from the IDSF publication. For instance, one thing we noticed was that it explicitly says no fake tan for young girls, but all it says is "no makeup" for the boys. Someone could argue that the letter of the rules allows boys to have fake tanning (even though any reasonable person would agree that the *spirit* of the no makeup rule includes no fake tanning for both boys and girls).

Of course, my favorite thing was seeing "sequins" spelled as "sequence" in a few spots. People, that little mostly flat bit of plastic or metal that sparkles and isn't a rhinestone is a SEQUIN, so the plural is SEQUINS. Okay, got that off my chest....

[Chris Stratton]

Ah well, if the rules surpress interest in the kiddie circuit, the collegiate one still gets a chance at them when they are independent enough to appreciate something too classically conservative for their parents.

[Laura]

I think the kiddie circuit will survive just fine no matter what rules the IDSF/USA Dance throws at it. The reason for this is that the rules are already followed in Europe, and in the US the various non-IDSF member organizations can and will do whatever they want in their own competitions. The only time anyone really needs to pay attention to the IDSF rules is when they are entered in an IDSF-member organization's competition. Between the various non-IDSF organizations I know of (I can think of three offhand right now), the kids have plenty of chances to dance all tarted up if costuming and makeup is their big concern. There are no World Junior I or Pre-Teen championships, so it's not like anyone in the affected age groups have to get involved with USA Dance Regionals or USA Dance Nationals so as to win a World Team spot either.

Really, except for trying to legislate good taste, this whole thing is rather a tempest in a teapot. That's part of why my attitude is shifting from "I'm a USA Dance official and must enforce the rules whether I agree with them or not" to "I don't really even want to deal with this anymore." In the end, though, I think so long as I'm working as an official at competitions run under USA Dance/IDSF rules I need to apply whatever rules are in the book...but that doesn't mean I (and anyone else for that matter) can't ask questions about stupid points in the rules and suggest changes.

I just wonder what possesses a reasonable adult to go along with some of the truly tasteless stuff -- and my wondering applies anyplace where little kids turn up in tasteless attire, not just in dancesport (and beauty pageants).

[Larinda McRaven]

I just wonder what possesses a reasonable adult to go along with some of the truly tasteless stuff --

Are you kidding, the parents are often more tastless than how they dress the kids...

[Laura]

Ahhh, my first mistake was starting from the assumption "reasonable adult." :)

[tasche]

If my sister had a daughter I guarantee she would be a pushy stage mom. She shows cats instead which is almost as bad ( one of her cats ran away hehehe)

[Laura]

Have you seen the movie "Best in Show?" It's about dog shows, but it's damn hilarious if you're a competitive ballroom dancer too. Why? Because the same super-obsessed kinds of personalities turn up in dancesport too.

A "Strictlly Ballroom" / "Best in Show" double feature is a grand idea for getting some perspective on the absolute absurdity (and frivolity) of dancesport in general.

[tasche]

If you have the Strictly Ballroom DVD it has that aussie documentary on it. Its great to watch for a healthy dose of reality ( the upbeat kind not the gritty kind)

I have my sister on tape after winning best in show at the NZ nationals pushing a kid out of her shot with her butt. Its really funny she literally butts him out of view. :twisted:

Theres a hairdressing movie that has similar elements. Blow Dry I think its called. Oh and a mighty wind has a similar kind of humor and was produced by the same ppl who did Best of Show I believe

[alemana]

What's the word on spray tans? Are they dangerous? Bad for you? Do they dry your skin out?

[Laura]

I've not heard anything about 'danger' from spray tans, but I have heard some people say that they dry their skin out a little. I suppose a decent moisturizer would take care of that.

[ratherbdancing]

Wow- being a junior competitor i definetly have some opinions on this. First of all, i use fake tanning because i hate tanning booths- skin cancer is so not for me. I have never heard of a law that prohibits people under the age of 18 to use tanning beds so this is news to me since i have friends of mine that have been going tanning since 6th grade. Here, you just have to have someone sign for you once if your under 18. I think banning tanning and make-up is ridiculous. If someone wants to wear it, let them and i really dont think that it is anyone elses decision. I understand where it is coming from, but i would go with more of a 10 and under rule since most girls that are 11-13 wear make-up anyways. Then again, i totally go off when i hear rules like this because although it doesnt apply to me, it would have when i started competiting.

[tasche]

The under 18 no indoor tanning is only in effect in California.

I think the point of whether 11-13 yo's wear makeup or not is irrelevant. The point is to keep the point of entry low for new competitors. If all competitors are bareskinned and untanned then they can compared fairly as opposed to those who chose to being favored over those who choose not to tan/spackle.

The point of rules and codes is not always to opress but to ensure others are not.

[SDsalsaguy]

The point of rules and codes is not always to opress but to ensure others are not.
Very, very, very well said tasche! :notworth: :notworth: :notworth:

[Chris Stratton]

Oh! Come and see the patronization inherent in the system!

Help! Help! I'm feeling under-dressed!

[Laura]

How is it being patronizing to have a uniform set of rules that tries to make for a fair playing field -- especially for newcomers to an expensive sport like competitive ballroom dancing?

[Chris Stratton]

Do you really think technically illegal costumes provide any competitive advantage over well designed legal ones?

They don't... it has nothing to do with fairness, and everything to do with concerns about jealousy and indecency.

(Well, actually I do think a sensibly long skirt could be a slight advantage in standard, and that is currently disallowed - I'll correct my claim and suggest that illegal costumes offer no advantage over well designed ones complying with an appropriate rule set)

[standardgirl]

by the way, I tanned for my FIRST TIME in life for OSB, and now I actually realize that I look PRETTIER being tanned than pale!
Before that, I have always been really "white" since that's the so called beauty in Asian community, and my parents will kill me if I am tanned....

But, now I like it, and I am tanning just for the sake of it (not for competition) on Thursday again! of couse, sunless tanning!

I don't think kids should ever go UV tanning, but I do think sunless tanning is alright. At least it does harm the kids.

[SDsalsaguy]

At least it does harm the kids.
:shock: :shock: :shock:

PLEASE tell me that was a typo and you meant "At least it does not harm the kids."

[tasche]

Do you really think technically illegal costumes provide any competitive advantage over well designed legal ones?

They don't... it has nothing to do with fairness, and everything to do with concerns about jealousy and indecency.

(Well, actually I do think a sensibly long skirt could be a slight advantage in standard, and that is currently disallowed - I'll correct my claim and suggest that illegal costumes offer no advantage over well designed ones complying with an appropriate rule set)

Ok we are going roleplay here for awhile. Close your eyes and imagine you are a 11 yo girl. You've just started dancesport and are going to your first comp. Boy are you excited! You get there and all around your competitors are primped and preened to look like 35 yos. You dance and lose. You feel hurt and outraged that you had to compete against "older kids" You feel dowdy in your sensible attire and wholesome appearance. Please bear in mind that logic and reason are the last parts of the human brain to develop and you cannot be consoled and thus decided to throw your shoes into the bushes never to dance again.

If girls (boys for that matter) want to tan and spackle it on then they should do what everybody else does. Go to the mall.

On an aside. At the food court today I was watching 2 17 yo retouch their makeup for a total of 7 mins 37 seconds. The thing was none of the orginal makeup had rubbed off at all

[ratherbdancing]

I have always had a "wholesome" appearance (to an extent) and I just recently started using fake tanner. As a matter of fact there are things that i will wear to pro-shows, but i wouldnt' wear when i compete because i know what my reputation with the judges is. The judges and some very well known top pros often make comments to my mom that they like the way i dress for comps because it is very age appropriate. I have often beat out girls that had the full costumes and tanner. Am i starting to get more-so into all of that stuff (costumes, a LOT more make-up, tanner, the fake nails) yes- but that is because i am developing more of my look now. So to say that you dont want kids to do this stuff because they will get beat out and get discouraged is ridiculous since i am a great example that you can beat out those people and that a wholesome appearance can work to your advantage.

[tasche]

Actually I'm not saying that they will be beaten by those who have a "hoochie look" but that one cannot expect to win the first time out and an irrational pre-teen as stated before will most likely blame it on the differences that are easily seeable. If one of your fellow competitors is dressed like a 17 yo but is dancing in a pre-teen cateogry wouldn't you assume that life isn't fair?

Congratulations on being able to maintain a wholesome look and develop naturally into a more mature style. It seems you are the posterchild for this new rules so I can't understand why you are objecting to them? Please clarify.

Incidently as I have pointed out several times I came through the Jr and Pre-teen circuit so I'm well aware of all the dynamics

[tasche]

This reminds me of ballet. I remember in the lower grades we couldn't wait until we earnt the right to wear ribbons on our shoes and then later on pointe shoes.

You gotta pay your dues.

[ratherbdancing]

Actually I'm not saying that they will be beaten by those who have a "hoochie look" but that one cannot expect to win the first time out and an irrational pre-teen as stated before will most likely blame it on the differences that are easily seeable. If one of your fellow competitors is dressed like a 17 yo but is dancing in a pre-teen cateogry wouldn't you assume that life isn't fair?

Congratulations on being able to maintain a wholesome look and develop naturally into a more mature style. It seems you are the posterchild for this new rules so I can't understand why you are objecting to them? Please clarify.

Incidently as I have pointed out several times I came through the Jr and Pre-teen circuit so I'm well aware of all the dynamics

Im opposed to these rules soley because i dont respond well to being told what to do, and i am very big into personal freedom that if i want to do soemthing i should be allowed to, especially stuff like this. If I were in the age group that is being affected by these rules, the only rule that i wouldn't have a problem with would be the costuming because that is just how i am that i like to dress classy when i compete. I still tan, i still wear the longest nails possible, i still look like im 25 at competitions- and i feel that i have a right to do that.

I like how you worded it " develop naturally into a more mature style"- i wanted to say that but i wasnt sure how to word it. lol

[delamusica]

This reminds me of ballet. I remember in the lower grades we couldn't wait until we earnt the right to wear ribbons on our shoes and then later on pointe shoes.

You gotta pay your dues.

Well said, as usual.

[tasche]

[quote=tasche]

Im opposed to these rules soley because i dont respond well to being told what to do, and i am very big into personal freedom that if i want to do soemthing i should be allowed to, especially stuff like this. If I were in the age group that is being affected by these rules, the only rule that i wouldn't have a problem with would be the costuming because that is just how i am that i like to dress classy when i compete. I still tan, i still wear the longest nails possible, i still look like im 25 at competitions- and i feel that i have a right to do that.

I like how you worded it " develop naturally into a more mature style"- i wanted to say that but i wasnt sure how to word it. lol

Fair enough. As long as you know why your against something :)

Though the new rules do have their validity for various reason which are not always related morality ( keeping costs down for parents is a big one so more ppl can join in)

I think if you think back that when you were 11-13 you probably weren't as big into personal freedom as you are now and things always seem worse when they are taken away vs if you never had them in the first place.

When I went to highschool the junior classes had to wear uniforms and the 6th and 7th formers got to wear "mufti" At the start of my 6th form year they changed it so we would have to wear uniforms and only in the 7th would we be able to wear what we wanted. At first we rebelled then we settled into it and it was fine and the newer students came up through the school not knowing what they were missing anyways.

I like to concept of the new rules that has the costuming and grooming start out simple and allowing things to be added as you progress. Similar to the no costumes in sillybus ;) rule and also can be compared to the sillybus step progression itself.

Of course when 15 yo's dress like 25 it makes us real 25yo look old though all the 40 yo women who lie about being 29 even things out for us which is probably why I get mistaken for being 18. Who even knows what a real 18 yo is supposed to look like anymore. LOL

[Larinda McRaven]

tasche, you mentioned the two points that I think apply to this situation.


1 If this rule were already in place would we even be arguing this point? I think not.

If we change to the new rule it gives us the feeling that we are having something taken away. This is a negative.

2 In the new system, as you progress the rules change to allow different costuming/grooming options, giving one a sense of graduating up.

This way we feel as if we are gaining something. This is a positive.

So once the rule is in place we will actually have a positive situation. But trying to get there will feel negative and painful. Everyone just needs to realize that it is the taking something away makes us defensive, not the actual rule itself.

[standardgirl]

At least it does harm the kids.
:shock: :shock: :shock:

PLEASE tell me that was a typo and you meant "At least it does not harm the kids."

sorry....yes, it is a typo.... Oops.... :roll:

[Chris Stratton]

1 If this rule were already in place would we even be arguing this point? I think not.


Never underestimate the ability of dancers to argue!

I seem to recall taking a critical view of the adult costume rules a few times in the past myself...

[tasche]

tasche, you mentioned the two points that I think apply to this situation.


1 If this rule were already in place would we even be arguing this point? I think not.

If we change to the new rule it gives us the feeling that we are having something taken away. This is a negative.

2 In the new system, as you progress the rules change to allow different costuming/grooming options, giving one a sense of graduating up.

This way we feel as if we are gaining something. This is a positive.

So once the rule is in place we will actually have a positive situation. But trying to get there will feel negative and painful. Everyone just needs to realize that it is the taking something away makes us defensive, not the actual rule itself.

And those it does affect/effect don't know any better/different anyways

[ratherbdancing]

And those it does affect/effect don't know any better/different anyways

I wouldnt be so sure about that. Correct me if im wrong, but doesnt it say somewhere on here that this rule is for 13 and under, and it will be in effect within the year. Well i know some kids this will effect, and im sure that 1 of the girls is going to be very upset about this. Her mom is just now allowing her to wear the make-up and costumes, jewelry etc, and then to take that away from her........

Will everyone get over it and accept it? yea probably. I understand the point in the tanning, and maybe even the costuming but the no-jewelry, and no make-up whatsoever still seems extreme to me.

[DancePoet]

And those it does affect/effect don't know any better/different anyways

I wouldnt be so sure about that. Correct me if im wrong, but doesnt it say somewhere on here that this rule is for 13 and under, and it will be in effect within the year. Well i know some kids this will effect, and im sure that 1 of the girls is going to be very upset about this. Her mom is just now allowing her to wear the make-up and costumes, jewelry etc, and then to take that away from her........

Will everyone get over it and accept it? yea probably. I understand the point in the tanning, and maybe even the costuming but the no-jewelry, and no make-up whatsoever still seems extreme to me.

Changes like these usually bring discomfort like you describe, but it needs to start somewhere, and it will likely be phased in, if it's done correctly, which could lesson the intial shock a bit.

[redhead]

I knew a girl whose mom and dad were pros, so she started dancing at the tender age of 3 and competing at 4.5. By the time she was 7, she did competitions at least once a month, usually more often.
They didn't even use fake tan on her, just lots and lots of makeup (her skin is very pale).
I met her when we were both 18 - and she couldn't wear ANY kind of makeup, not even tinted chapstick, because by the time she was 13, she developed an allergy to any kind of makeup and most kinds of facial creams... She (and her mom) would give anything up to bring the time back, but it's done.
She had to go to her prom looking like an ugly duckling.
I'm sure that's not a common story, but something to think about.

[DancePoet]

I knew a girl whose mom and dad were pros, so she started dancing at the tender age of 3 and competing at 4.5. By the time she was 7, she did competitions at least once a month, usually more often.
They didn't even use fake tan on her, just lots and lots of makeup (her skin is very pale).
I met her when we were both 18 - and she couldn't wear ANY kind of makeup, not even tinted chapstick, because by the time she was 13, she developed an allergy to any kind of makeup and most kinds of facial creams... She (and her mom) would give anything up to bring the time back, but it's done.
She had to go to her prom looking like an ugly duckling.
I'm sure that's not a common story, but something to think about.

This sounds so sad. :( This is why rules need to be in place. Hopefully this will help protect children from having these kinds of experiences.

[tasche]

And those it does affect/effect don't know any better/different anyways

I wouldnt be so sure about that. Correct me if im wrong, but doesnt it say somewhere on here that this rule is for 13 and under, and it will be in effect within the year. Well i know some kids this will effect, and im sure that 1 of the girls is going to be very upset about this. Her mom is just now allowing her to wear the make-up and costumes, jewelry etc, and then to take that away from her........

Will everyone get over it and accept it? yea probably. I understand the point in the tanning, and maybe even the costuming but the no-jewelry, and no make-up whatsoever still seems extreme to me.

Sounds harsh but thats life. As the point I brought in HS where we had been wearing uniforms to schools since middle school and finally were ready to throw our ties and plaid skirts away they said now you have to wear it for ANOTHER year. Tough biccies for us.

If you allow jewellery and makeup ppl being ppl will start sneaking in tanning and costumes.

[ratherbdancing]

I really dont understand the jewelry rule at all. I guess it would be more difficult to say that you just cant wear costume jewelry, because then someone has to be the judge of what costume jewelry is and what isnt. So i guess i understand where they are coming from with all of these rules, but i still dont feel that they are 100% necessary.

[SDsalsaguy]

...i guess i understand where they are coming from with all of these rules, but i still dont feel that they are 100% necessary.
100% necessary? Certainly not... but perhaps useful overall (and for many of the reason tasche has outlined), no?

[ratherbdancing]

...i guess i understand where they are coming from with all of these rules, but i still dont feel that they are 100% necessary.
100% necessary? Certainly not... but perhaps useful overall (and for many of the reason tasche has outlined), no?
I guess so- sorry but i feel like its my job to defend this being one of the very few competitive juniors on this forum and i know how these kids are going to react. My biggest problem with this which i have stated before is that i strongly feel that these are isssues that should be up to the child and parent to decide. Yes, i have heard all of the arguments that it will cut down cost, and be less intimidating and i understand all of that. but i still feel this should up to the people it is affecting. they should at least take a poll or something rather then assume that this is what the people would want.
(can you tell i like to argue?, actually i dont so much like to argue as make my point of view clear esp. when its something im passionate about like this. one of my friends once told this other girl to not argue with me because you cant win. i refuse to give in. lol)

[tasche]

...i guess i understand where they are coming from with all of these rules, but i still dont feel that they are 100% necessary.
100% necessary? Certainly not... but perhaps useful overall (and for many of the reason tasche has outlined), no?
I guess so- sorry but i feel like its my job to defend this being one of the very few competitive juniors on this forum and i know how these kids are going to react. My biggest problem with this which i have stated before is that i strongly feel that these are isssues that should be up to the child and parent to decide. Yes, i have heard all of the arguments that it will cut down cost, and be less intimidating and i understand all of that. but i still feel this should up to the people it is affecting. they should at least take a poll or something rather then assume that this is what the people would want.
(can you tell i like to argue?, actually i dont so much like to argue as make my point of view clear esp. when its something im passionate about like this. one of my friends once told this other girl to not argue with me because you cant win. i refuse to give in. lol)

I totally understand where you coming from. When I moved to the states I was 20 and couldn't drink however in NZ the drinking age was like 18 so I was used to being able to order wine with my meals so suddenly as a result of a 12 hour plane trip I could no longer imbibe alochol. Actually I've hardly drunk anything since even though I'm several years over 21 now. I still feel like I'm sneaking around when ordering beer etc

[pygmalion]

Ahhh, my first mistake was starting from the assumption "reasonable adult." :) Yep. These rules, in my mind, are there to restrain the crazy stage parents out there. They're the ones dressy their kids like (what did you call em tasche?) skanky hos? (Too hilarious! I couldn't resist quoting you.) But the parents are the ones who need a dose of balance, IMO.

[pygmalion]

Of course when 15 yo's dress like 25 it makes us real 25yo look old though all the 40 yo women who lie about being 29 even things out for us which is probably why I get mistaken for being 18. Who even knows what a real 18 yo is supposed to look like anymore. LOL

:lol: :lol: :lol: All I know is that, at 15, the personal freedom to wear full make-up and 4 inch heels to high school was very important to me. Somewhere in my mid-twenties, I decided that freedom, for me, was the ability to be out there with nothing on my face and still feel damn good about myself.

I know I'm old fashioned, but the idea of 11 - 13 year olds in skimpy costumes, full make-up, and fake tans, turns my stomach. I see tasche's argument about making the sport more accessible for entry level competitors. I can relate to that, too. But tastefully done costumes, such as are mandated in places outside the US, just look better to me. Yes, kids (non-dance kids) these days DO dress a lot more maturely, a lot younger, than we did when I was a pre-teen. Maybe that's why I'm so stuffy. But I can't see anything bad coming from the implementation of these new rules.

[DancePoet]

Ahhh, my first mistake was starting from the assumption "reasonable adult." :) Yep. These rules, in my mind, are there to restrain the crazy stage parents out there. They're the ones dressy their kids like (what did you call em tasche?) skanky hos? (Too hilarious! I couldn't resist quoting you.) But the parents are the ones who need a dose of balance, IMO.

Yes, I believe it is as much a parental responsibility as anything, and these rules need to be are in place so kids don't get abused.

[tacad]

I just realized: Everyone wants to be twentysomething :lol: .

[pygmalion]

No. Just look like it. :wink: :lol: :lol:

[DancePoet]

I just realized: Everyone wants to be twentysomething :lol: .

You might be on to something there! The youngsters want to look older, and the rest all want to look younger. Hmmm ... I wonder why? ;)