Swaying the hip thing

[AquaDancer]

Anyone got any advice for us people that just can't seem to master the hip motion of latin dances?

From past training in not moving in the hips I find it extremely difficult to move the hips even doing the proper weight changes and foot work.

[youngsta]

Disclaimer: I am not an instructor! :D

It's all in the footwork. If you're shifting your weight properly and centering yourself over the balls of your feet (never let your right heel touch when breaking back) the cuban motion will be there. Guys should practice isolating the ribcage area.

[borikensalsero]

The actual swaying of the hips is caused by a drop of the knee, if you would like to accentuate even further then be on the ball of your feet. You can dance flat footed and still have a sway of the hips, all because you are bending the knees.

I've seen many people trying to sway the hips to no success. Yet, when they walk they have a natural sway of the hips. That is because when a person walks they must do so by bending the knees, and more so if landing on the ball of the foot. If you notice, just lifting your knee up will cause a drop of weight on the side which has just been lifted.

When swaying the hips don't do the side to side thing with the knees that a lot of people mistakenly do thinking is what causes the sway. Just bend the knee naturally forwad and it will have no choice but to sway the hip. It is human plyometrics/human physics.

Try so by just locking the knees and trying to sway... Not possible! The knees have locked the midsection. Now stand and just bend the knees, right, left, right, left, you will see the booty sway side to side. Bang!! That so called cuban movement, we all have it, except some of us have a better ability to move it...

Be relaxed, and when droping one knee, let the weight follow in that direction. After you are good with that, stand with the knees bent and try moving your but back and forth, side to side, then in circles. Soon, you'll be doing the rumpshaker. :D

[SDsalsaguy]

As per the other responses, the hip motion does not come from the hips! More then anything else it is related to proper use of foot pressure. Cuban motion results from stepping—with pressure—onto the inside edge of a turned out foot and rolling your weight outward, around the front of the foot, towards the outside edge of your foot.

[Vince A]

AquaDancer,
Listen to what these members say . . . you see, back in July I was asking a similar question, and I received many tips and points of instruction and exercises from the members on this site. My question was mainly for Cha Cha, but I was just beginning Salsa at the time.

Believe me, with the exercises and what was suggested, my Cha Cha is totally different in just these few months . . . not to mention that Salsa is getting easier and looks much more natural!

[mellody43]

Rumpshaker! :lol:

I love it.

(Reminds me of that annoyingly catchy Puff Daddy/50 Cent song "Shake Your Tailfeather" -- hehe!)

Melissa

[msc]

It helps to use a bit of ab/lower back strength to circle the hip. The legs and feet actually increase the volume and the speed of the hip motion, but the ab muscles and the lower back create the basic twisting shape. The basic idea is to roll the area between your bellybutton and your spine in a figure eight, then the hips will follow that roll.

[pygmalion]

Also, don't give up.

I starting doing my Cuban motion drills every day for months before my hips started to move. You're basically re-teaching your body how to do certain movements, and that takes time. Every instructor and professional I've talked to about this still practices their Cuban motion regularly. The motion will come. It just takes time and practice.

There are also some videos out there with drills for Latin motion, that you can practice with. I have one that's pretty lame, so I won't recommend it. But I bet other folks can make recommendations.

Jenn

[MissAlyssa]

IT'S ALL IN THE KNEEES! (I am a dance instructor :lol: ) I do a test on new latin dancers. I tell them to move their hips without bending their knees (the funny thing is they try, and what's even more funny is watching them try) I know, sounds mean but it gets the point across. You CANNOT move your hips if your knees don't bend, it's physically impossible. The more you bend, the more you shake yo groove thang!!!

[msc]

Nah, I think the hips bend the knees (actually I'm certain of it.)

How could Int'l Latin dancers possibly have any hip action at all, since they frequently step onto a "straight leg?"

[brujo]

Try this simple exercise:

Put your feet about shoulder length apart and stand up straight. Lock your left knee and make sure your entire foot is touching the floor. Now bend your right knee so that you're standing on the balls of your foot. You will see that your hips are leaning to one side ever so slightly.

The whole motion of the hips is caused by the footwork, if you look at the exercise above, you will notice that if you straighten out your bent knee and lock your other knee, your hips will now be leaning to the other side.

Of course, when you are salsa dancing, you probably don't want to lock your knees, but the level at which you bend your knees should be different due to the way your feet touch the floor.

Think of the motion of one of those stepping machines in the gym, lay one foot flat on the floor and keep alternating between the left and right legs. Step in place and you will see that the transfer between the left foot and the right foot causes your hips to sway left and right.

hope this helps.... It's the illusion of a straight leg, but the foot that is travelling should always be joined to a bent knee.

[SDsalsaguy]

Ok, this is not about salsa per se but, as msc is alluding to, one of the characteristic and fundamental differences between American Rhythm and International Latin style ballroom involves stepping onto a flexed vs. a straight leg…and both styles certainly utilize Cuban motion.

[borikensalsero]

Nah, I think the hips bend the knees (actually I'm certain of it.)

How could Int'l Latin dancers possibly have any hip action at all, since they frequently step onto a "straight leg?"

Here is why there is still a hip motion when you step on to a straight leg. The bend is taken of the knees but its picked up by the feet. The feet now are in-charge of the hip sway. If you want to test, stand on the ball of your feet and then bring one foot to a flat position while leaving the other on the ball. You will see a drop of weight, follow that drop with your hip and bang, cuban motion without the knees, yet it can't truly be as described as true cuban motion because of the stiffness of the legs, and upper body. Yes, To some it is cuban because of the sway of the hips but to others it isn't because cuban motion to its "folk nature" has never been danced with anyone part of the body "stiff", some parts straight, yes, but not stiff. It was the introduction of european/american styles to cuban motion that lead people to believe just that the sway of hips alone is true cuban motion. The blending of styles is what we now have, even Eddie Torre's uses an anglo/latin style of dance. The sway of hips is in all truth part of cuban motion, but not in its entirety.

[msc]

Exactly,boriken, though I wouldn't say the motion is supposed to be stiff, it can certainly look that way. Here's my problem: once you learn to move your hips off of a straight leg (using power through the foot and leg to power the motion,) if you try to use a bent leg, you end up with way too much motion. Which is fine, if you're talking about a move that requires a lot of hip action. Also, I find, that I have a lot more foot speed when using a straight leg, as opposed to a bent leg, which really helps with the faster salsa and chacha songs.

My memory could be a little hazy, but I thought the whole "bent leg" idea was introduced by Arthur Murray, because he felt Americans couldn't do the hip action off of a straight leg. I know I read that somewhere ...

[borikensalsero]

Exactly,boriken, though I wouldn't say the motion is supposed to be stiff, it can certainly look that way. Here's my problem: once you learn to move your hips off of a straight leg (using power through the foot and leg to power the motion,) if you try to use a bent leg, you end up with way too much motion. Which is fine, if you're talking about a move that requires a lot of hip action. Also, I find, that I have a lot more foot speed when using a straight leg, as opposed to a bent leg, which really helps with the faster salsa and chacha songs.

My memory could be a little hazy, but I thought the whole "bent leg" idea was introduced by Arthur Murray, because he felt Americans couldn't do the hip action off of a straight leg. I know I read that somewhere ...


Hmmm... The bent leg thing might have very well been introduced to Americans by Arthur Murray, I'm really not sure. But the action of cuban motion done with the legs bent has always been so for Cubans. Hence, looking at a cuban folk dancer doing the yambu or any other dance of cuban origin their motions are always done with bent knees. If there is too much sway when trasfering the bend from the foot to the knees it really means that the sway has become a forced muscle memory, as opposed to a nutural musle memory. It is difficult to unlearn muscle memory. The difference being that the muscles keep the same sway when transfering the task from the feet to the kneens because they have been forced to learn it that way, hence its inability to keep its natural rhythm in relation to the movements of the legs, just because it has been forced to learn a movement which isn't natural to the body. Different people have naturally have more sway than others, limiting that sway becomes unatural to them, hence the biginning of forced muscle memory, and awkard movements when body position/technique changes. The muscles forget their natural movements and have begun to have, although still natural, an unatural to them movement.

You mention feeling as if you have a lot of more foots speed dancing straight legged as opposed to bent knees. It might be so because you are used to it and feel more comfortable doing as your technique calls for. But the speed at which you move your feet is increased by a bend in the knees. This is seen in speed drills time and time again. The faster the foot or legs have to move the more the bend on the knees, to a certain degree. The reason is because carrying your body weight on straight knees is an abnormal movement for the body. It doesn't allow the muscle to reach maximun capacity for they are already fully streched. Power and agility come from a flexed to contracted muscle. The more muscles invloved the faster and stronger you can do that task. The bend of the knee also brings the center of gravity down, which adds to agility. So for agility purposes the body automatically bends the knees, hence why when we run the first thing that happens is we take a crouching like stance. The body readies itself to flee in the fastest, most agile physical way it finds and that is by bending the limbs, which cause the involved muscles to performe at higher level, in both speed and agility.

[SDsalsaguy]

OK, again not relating to salsa per se, but there is an increased speed to straight-legged action. Simply stated, if you arrive on an already straight leg, no time is spent in straitening it! This is one of the reasons that American Rhythm cha cha has, historically, been seen as being slower and less powerful then International Latin cha cha. The reality, of course, is simply a difference in technique…and, contrary to much misconception, almost all of the top European judges I’ve asked about this do recognize the American style, flexed-legged version as being more authentic (i.e. closer to the original forms from which it derived).

[Vince A]

SDsalsaguy,
Since you mentioned cha cha . . . the Pro that I dance with has been working me more and more to get a very . . . as she puts it - "staccato look" - does this sound right to you???

[SDsalsaguy]

SDsalsaguy,
Since you mentioned cha cha . . . the Pro that I dance with has been working me more and more to get a very . . . as she puts it - "staccato look" - does this sound right to you???
Depends. What style of cha are you working on? If it's country cha, then I have no clue :?

If its "club", then there's a twofold answer: (1) you're social dancing, who cares (!), and (2) most club style cha cha is not very staccato at all.

If you're talking American Rhythm, then it depends...social dance-wise or competitive? Socially, closer to club style – note my post above, for instance, regarding Rhythm being viewed as more stylistically "authentic" by top European judges. Also keep in mind that pushing through from a flexed to a straight leg provides greater Cuban motion but, at the same time, provides for a less staccato action. Competitive Rhythm is a bit more defined...clean actions being part of what is judged in competition after all, hence the use of a flexed (and not bent) leg.

For International Latin, then staccato is very much the name of the game and, as you'd expect, all the more so for competition. You’re arriving on a straight leg, so the foot actions are, in fact, very staccato.

As a final point though, keep in mind that these points are all in reference to foot actions and the resultant hip actions – the body should stay active and engaged throughout!

[borikensalsero]

OK, again not relating to salsa per se, but there is an increased speed to straight-legged action. Simply stated, if you arrive on an already straight leg, no time is spent in straitening it! This is one of the reasons that American Rhythm cha cha has, historically, been seen as being slower and less powerful then International Latin cha cha. The reality, of course, is simply a difference in technique…and, contrary to much misconception, almost all of the top European judges I’ve asked about this do recognize the American style, flexed-legged version as being more authentic (i.e. closer to the original forms from which it derived).

I do see the fact that one can spend less time getting from point A to point B in a song with a straight leg because there is no time to spend in bending the knees, which translates to a much more compact motion, and quicker looking moves. Which leads to my question, Maybe someone with ballroom dancing expirience can clarify it for me. Wouldn't the very fact of a quickness at first with straight leg keep a dancer from reaching maximun speed? I don't mean looking briskier, but the actual top speeds that a dancer can reach? Even if the speed looks briskier/Quicker on a straight leg, it doesn't mean that the dancer can achieve his/her individual top speeds. In a song we must all hit the same beats at the same time. Compact dancing whether straight legged or not leads to compact movement ultimately faster moves up to the point, where the respective techniques will go against plyometrics, unavoidably the dancer has no choice but to reach a platau before reaching top speeds. Although a dancer feels he can go faster he won't because a limit on the body has been reached within a given techinque. So while body/leg movements looks briskier because of the straigh leg, the speed at which the feet transfer from "A" to "B" is the same. There is a limit as just how fast the feet move without the aid of helper muscles.

I've noticed that when I want to do a shine pattern to song like MamaGuela I find myself getting closer to the ground and increasing the bend on my keens, and the faster the song goes the more balancing with the upper body to compansate for the speed at which the feet are moving I have to do. My technique is very compact so I don't look all over the place. I ask the question and make this observations because my dance expirience is limited to Social Mambo. However, the depth of knowledge on the human body is pretty extensive and it causes me to question until I'm satisfied with an answer. :D

[SDsalsaguy]

the speed at which the feet transfer from "A" to "B" is the same. There is a limit as just how fast the feet move without the aid of helper muscles.
Excellent, excellent questions boriken! You are, of course, absolutely correct regarding an absolute limit on foot speed. What makes the straight-legged action “faster” is not that the foot arrives any sooner but, rather, that the full body weight does – your weight is already entirely over your foot. This, in turn, enables a faster redirection of weight. Also, just as a point of clarification, the knees do, of course, bend – its just that they’re bent while in transition and arrive straight. I’m not saying, by any means, that this is the only definition of or mechanism for speed …and I certainly don’t dance my salsa this way, I’m just providing what I understand to be the case based on the ballroom Latin & Rhythm dancing to which I’ve been exposed.

[msc]

Another thing to keep in mind, the appearance of speed is often really associated with a change of speeds, as much as the raw speed itself. Hence, to make chacha look fast, you might accelerate to the new supporting foot, then stop the body alltogether, hold for half a beat or so, then move again. You can also increase speed by increasing the length of your stride ... while your feet strike the floor at the same time, they cover more distance, hence the torso actually has to move faster to get to the same positions in the same time.

Now, I agree that the motions used aren't the best for the generation of raw speed, but they do work very well for frequent checking and changing directions.

[MissAlyssa]

Op! Should have specified that I meant American Style. I don't teach International. Sorry to confuse anyone!

[msc]

If the feet are closed, under the body, then indeed there is no way to do Cuban motion without stepping on a bent knee. In fact, that move is frequently used in an Int'l Latin competition, in cha-cha, where the feet are together, and the hips shift with the cha-cha-cha beat.


I used to do American style Latin action, but then I started to try Int'l style, and I really enjoyed it. There just seems to be a much stronger look and feel to the dance when you have straight legs ... the guys look stronger, and the women get to show off their legs. Moreover, it just has a stonger feel ... I can't explain why, but it does. That's really the only reason I use Int'l Latin technique in Salsa, I just like the feel better.

[MissAlyssa]

Another good point. I shouldn't have assumed everyone knew I was taking about with the feet together. :?

[borikensalsero]

the speed at which the feet transfer from "A" to "B" is the same. There is a limit as just how fast the feet move without the aid of helper muscles.
Excellent, excellent questions boriken! You are, of course, absolutely correct regarding an absolute limit on foot speed. What makes the straight-legged action “faster” is not that the foot arrives any sooner but, rather, that the full body weight does – your weight is already entirely over your foot. This, in turn, enables a faster redirection of weight. Also, just as a point of clarification, the knees do, of course, bend – its just that they’re bent while in transition and arrive straight. I’m not saying, by any means, that this is the only definition of or mechanism for speed …and I certainly don’t dance my salsa this way, I’m just providing what I understand to be the case based on the ballroom Latin & Rhythm dancing to which I’ve been exposed.

Ohhh, Now it's making a lot more sense, thank you for the answer. I was talking about it to my Lady Love last night and mentioned the same thing you have just wrote as a possible answer. Not really having any expirience in ballroom dancing besides watching it on TV baffled me trying to understand what was going on. Here is another point to take notice, when dancing I must saidly say, NY on2 style stresses leg movement over body movement, this style kind of holds the body in place and makes the legs do the bulk of the movement. (Not to say that everyone does it this way) Standing aside and looking onto NYC on2 dancers, slight leads with the legs are taken, which means the body follows, as opposed to what SD referred to, having the body arrive first then the feet, as is the natural way the body moves. It is a lot easier, faster, and natural to have the upper body head in the direction which the feet are desired to go. Making use of a simple example; before taking a foot forward everyone's upper body leans foward and it certainly arrives to the desire spot before the feet ever do, unless you are in Hitler's army of course. Same should, but doesn't with a number of dancers I've seen, happen when we dance. The body tells the feet where to go, hence the slight lean forward a dancer ought to maintain when dancing... The upper body directs Foward, backward, sides, up, down, etc, it is the one causing all these actions. It's just easier to move the bulk of the weight from the top where there is less concentrated weight and resistance as opposed to doing it from the bottom where 100 Lbs on the top + 50 lbs of the legs + friction + gravity = to more effort and more energy spent. Thank you guys for helping me out. :D

[DanceMentor]

A little advice to new dancers:

If you are a relatively new dancer, don't worry about the hip motion too much. That will definitely come with time. It is easy too become to concerned with the hip motion and actually slow your progress.

[SDsalsaguy]

Ditto to DanceMentor's point! And, as the more technical items above indicate, the hip motion doesn't come from the hips...so work on your basic leg and body actions and the rest will come.

[hopelessly_addicted]

My teacher tells me not to sway my hips (when doing basic steps). I only had one lesson with him so I'm not sure if he says that to restrict my swaying of hips, but if the pressure on the ball of the feet and the knee movements are done correctly, isn't it natural for the swaying of hips to take place?

(I'm a beginner so I'm careful not to drill some bad habits into my muscle memory but it seems like people have so many different opinions on how a movement for salsa should be done!)

[pygmalion]

Hi hopelessly_addicted! :D

Yes. Your hips will sway naturally, if you're doing the right stuff with your knees and feet. Most newer dancers, though, try to initiate the movement from their hips, which creates an exaggerated movement that can look quite unnatural. I suspect your teacher is telling you not to move your hips, but rather, to allow your hips to move. Two different things. Kinda fuzzy explanation, though. I hope I made sense. :?

Welcome, btw. :D

[hopelessly_addicted]

Hi hopelessly_addicted! :D

I suspect your teacher is telling you not to move your hips, but rather, to allow your hips to move. Two different things. Kinda fuzzy explanation, though. I hope I made sense. :?

Welcome, btw. :D

Yes, it makes perfect sense to me! I should ask him next class what exactly I do make it appear to him that I'm "moving my hips" rather than allowing my hips to move. Thanks Pygmalion!

[Sagitta]

My teacher tells me not to sway my hips (when doing basic steps). I only had one lesson with him so I'm not sure if he says that to restrict my swaying of hips, but if the pressure on the ball of the feet and the knee movements are done correctly, isn't it natural for the swaying of hips to take place?

(I'm a beginner so I'm careful not to drill some bad habits into my muscle memory but it seems like people have so many different opinions on how a movement for salsa should be done!)

Welcome to df. :D Jenn and your teacher are right. Just focus on stepping to the beat, relax, and the rest will come. I have the hip thing, I think, but I still am too tense in my upper body. Something I need to work on as I look a lot better when I conciously relax my upper body and let my core move entire body...

[hopelessly_addicted]

[quote=hopelessly_addicted]I have the hip thing, I think, but I still am too tense in my upper body. Something I need to work on as I look a lot better when I conciously relax my upper body and let my core move entire body...

I should probably post this under different topic but since it came up here, I'll ask. It seems to me from watching various video clips and at clubs that salseros do more upper body movements than salseras - salseras would basically keep their posture straight not bend forward so much as salseros do. Is my observation correct? :roll:

[Sagitta]

[quote=hopelessly_addicted]I have the hip thing, I think, but I still am too tense in my upper body. Something I need to work on as I look a lot better when I conciously relax my upper body and let my core move entire body...

I should probably post this under different topic but since it came up here, I'll ask. It seems to me from watching various video clips and at clubs that salseros do more upper body movements than salseras - salseras would basically keep their posture straight not bend forward so much as salseros do. Is my observation correct? :roll:

Think of salsa as sexual pantomine - rooster and hen. Rooster is saying gimme, gimme, gimme. This implies strutting, forward posture, shoulder rolling with a forward movement. Arms move within the space of the frame. Hen is saying no, no, no... So her posture is more backwards. Shoulder rolls with backward movement and hands move with arms going outiside her body. Look at how people dance from this perspective and you can see a bit of this.

[Sabor]

From another thread:

a nice workout for hips ..

step 1:
fill your bathtub with ingredients of a strawberry/chocolate Milk shake..
step2:
get into the bath tub with hips submerged
step3:
SHAKE IT LIKE A BLENDER!!
step4:
fancy a milkshake? :bouncy:

:mrgreen:

[hopelessly_addicted]

Think of salsa as sexual pantomine - rooster and hen. Rooster is saying gimme, gimme, gimme. This implies strutting, forward posture, shoulder rolling with a forward movement. Arms move within the space of the frame. Hen is saying no, no, no... So her posture is more backwards. Shoulder rolls with backward movement and hands move with arms going outiside her body. Look at how people dance from this perspective and you can see a bit of this.

lol although I don't find rooster-hen analogy of yours very sexy, you did get your point across! [/quote]

[squirrel]

Hmmm... Interesting topic...

Many of my students ask me how they should move their hips or don't understand why I am telling them not to overdo this move (it can look pretty unnatural...)

I kept telling them the hip movement comes from correct execution of the Salsa steps...

My question is: when dancing with your legs bent, I understood from my instructors you should never straighten the leg and then bend it again (in order to avoid the bouncing look...). Is that what you guys know too? When I dance, I bend my knees and maintain them bent throughout the dance... same level, no variations of "up and down"... maybe during some moves which require the knees to be bent more for better balance...

Hope I am making sense... :)

[borikensalsero]

Is that what you guys know too? When I dance, I bend my knees and maintain them bent throughout the dance... same level, no variations of "up and down"... maybe during some moves which require the knees to be bent more for better balance...


A person can actually dance straightening the knees and not look bouncy. As you step back "lock" your knee on your push forward, a rather nice result will give way... The bounce I believe is a result of bending and straightening the knees rather "abnormal".

Notice that when a person walks their back leg locks and doesn’t cause a bounce. We can translate that process to salsa. When done correctly it gives the dance such a smooth, elegant look. The smoothness of the basic comes from maintaining the same “posture/height” throughout the step… Locking the knees doesn’t necessarily cause the bounce.

I’ve actually seen people bend the knees, keep them bend and still look bouncy, for they increase and decrease the bend of the knee throughout the dance.

[Salsaonone]

a good thing to try if its not working out is to think about climbing stairs. you bend the keee you are climbing with and then put all you weight on it. Just remeber that if you step with your right foot (knee bent) your hip should go to the left and visa versa.

[dTas]

a good thing to try if its not working out is to think about climbing stairs. you bend the keee you are climbing with and then put all you weight on it. Just remeber that if you step with your right foot (knee bent) your hip should go to the left and visa versa.

i agree with the climbing stairs analogy but i'd go one further... dont' use stairs but use an incline, like a hill. walk slowly up a hill one step at a time. fully transfer your weight from one foot to the other before moving onto the next step.

one thing that i've found to be helpful is to define where an actual step begins and ends in relation to your hip placement. try to end your step at "the top of your hip". the point where you are totally balanced over your hip joint (not settled in any direction: forward backward or sideways). a good way to check this is to use a mirror and see if your nose is over your hip is over your toe.

then begin your next step. straight knee or bent knee they both start from this position. the body naturally will settle the hip (or twist) to allow the next foot to travel through. either that or you will be walking like Frankenstein.

at the end of your next step be sure to end at the top of your hip before beginning to step again. also... the hip motion travels back, not sideways. don't try to stick your hip out... rotate it back.

[delamusica]

Exactly,boriken, though I wouldn't say the motion is supposed to be stiff, it can certainly look that way. Here's my problem: once you learn to move your hips off of a straight leg (using power through the foot and leg to power the motion,) if you try to use a bent leg, you end up with way too much motion.

That's very true! I've done Int'l Latin for a long time, and now that I'm trying to take up salsa (dancing with my legs bent, since it seems like that's what the people around here are doing) I almost knock myself over because my hips aren't under my center when they move anymore! It seems like they just sway out way too far when I'm dancing on bent knees, and I can hardly keep my balance. Everyone here is asking how to move the hips more - I need to stop them from moving so much! :)

[tanzsegler]

If you really want to learn to do the hip thing (cuban motion) take an erotic dancing class or two. They spend the entire class working on moving the hips. If you are squimish with the overtly sexual poses, this would not be the prefered method of learning for you.

[borikensalsero]

Exactly,boriken, though I wouldn't say the motion is supposed to be stiff, it can certainly look that way. Here's my problem: once you learn to move your hips off of a straight leg (using power through the foot and leg to power the motion,) if you try to use a bent leg, you end up with way too much motion.

That's very true! I've done Int'l Latin for a long time, and now that I'm trying to take up salsa (dancing with my legs bent, since it seems like that's what the people around here are doing) I almost knock myself over because my hips aren't under my center when they move anymore! It seems like they just sway out way too far when I'm dancing on bent knees, and I can hardly keep my balance. Everyone here is asking how to move the hips more - I need to stop them from moving so much! :)

whatch out youngsta, we've got another sassy hips in town. :D I don't know what to tell you, perhaps a few of our resident salsero/ballroom guys can give you some hints.

I dance with my legs bent and my knees are mostly under my center, depending on the degree of hip movement I seek... here is the "street" look. The more the upper body leans forward the easier, smoother, and freer the hips will move, that is until you fall flat on your face from too much leaning. :D

Lean/slant entire body forward, kind of supporting body weight with the ball of the feet. Kind like doing tango, leaning forward before taking a step.

Bend knees and create an imaginary straight line from shoulders to knees to feet. If you have ever squated before, it is the "same" principle. While trying to keep this look going, don't allow the shoulders to go ahead of your knees or toes. Think of keeping that imaginary line without breaking.

keep back with its natural "proper" (tai-chi stance) posture, that includes the shoulders, bring hands out to the sides for balance, then move your upper body before any movement happens... The guys that I know that do ballroom do look a bit out of balance when they switch to street mode, as their upper body hangs too far out in front of them, there is nothing wrong with that for it is their style, it just looks a bit out of control.

As you travel, using your core, around the floor the feet will try to catch up and keep you from falling, hence always in search of balance and under your center, even if knees bent.

let the body get too far ahead and you will lose balance... the alignment of toes, knees and shoulders help tremendously when keeping balance.

Try to breath using your stomach as it will natrualy cause the hip/stomach muscles to naturally align and provide support.

That is the afro-cuban stance I was taught for guaguanco, yambu and salsa. Note, depending on how you want to look, increase and decrease the angle of the bent knees.

[delamusica]

hmm . . . leaning forward . . . I'll have to try that - I'm pretty sure I definitely do NOT lean forward when I dance, but I will try to start when doing salsa. :)

as for engaging my abdominal muscles for breathing . . . I'm not sure if I do or not. Probably I do breathe too shallowly - sure would explain why I'm always so out of breath when I stop dancing. I'll have to bay attention.

Ok - thanks boriken! I'll be sure to try this next weekend, and perhaps regain some degree of control over my renegade hips. :)

[salsachinita]

Thanks for reviving this thread :D ,HA!

For everyone's information, HA is in good hands. Her teacher is none other than our own SugarGlider (who has his own non-styled style, though closer to Cuban than L.A.) 8) !

I suspect your teacher is telling you not to move your hips, but rather, to allow your hips to move. Two different things.

Yes, it makes perfect sense to me! I should ask him next class what exactly I do make it appear to him that I'm "moving my hips" rather than allowing my hips to move. Thanks Pygmalion!

Welcome to the active posters' club, HA! All the littel tips you gather here will eventually fall into places.

[youngsta]

whatch out youngsta, we've got another sassy hips in town. :D
Problem is she's supposed to have sassy hips...I'm not! :lol: :lol:

[delamusica]

whatch out youngsta, we've got another sassy hips in town. :D
Problem is she's supposed to have sassy hips...I'm not! :lol: :lol:

You're not? Says who? :wink:

[delamusica]

Ok, so I went out again last night (I think I feel an addiction coming on . . . :)) - I tried to remember to lean forward more than usual, and it acually did help! I felt a lot more in control and able to style my hips without getting myself out of balance.

So thanks, Boriken! Your reply helped a lot. :)

[borikensalsero]

Ok, so I went out again last night (I think I feel an addiction coming on . . . :)) - I tried to remember to lean forward more than usual, and it acually did help! I felt a lot more in control and able to style my hips without getting myself out of balance.

So thanks, Boriken! Your reply helped a lot. :)

:banana: WEPA!!!!! Happy to hear you had positive results delamusica!!!!!

[Freya]

... I've been reading this topic for a couple of days already (on and off, between work duties).
I'm from south america and I've been Salsa-teaching for 10 years already (currently I live in Jerusalem, where there was no salsa 10 years ago).
I like to think about the hips movement with the following analogy:
Think about the following structure: two balls connected by a stick. In the center of the stick there's a hole, and a nail holds the whole construction to a table allowing rotational horizontal movement. You can swing this construction.
If you place the nail on a small rail which will allow you to go a little bit forwards and back, then you'll be able to perform the basic step of salsa.
I like to think of my hips as being the balls of this structure. When doing the basic step in Salsa I don't move the feet stepping forwards at 1 (with the Left leg) and so on. I actually move my hips, and the legs bend and get straight as many people described above. After all it's a "Cuban Hips Movement".

I believe the knees explanation is a way to simplify the hips movement, or a way to make it obvious to the non-latin or new dancers.

Well, now you can kill me for what I just said. :(
I hope I succeeded to explain the two balls-and-stick analogy. If I didn't... Sorry in advance.

[Sagitta]

Welcome to df Freya!! :D I'm glad that you decided to become an official member and start posting. I won't kill you. :wink: Actually, I think that salsa is natural motion. The latin motion comes from moving your core and letting the translate into the natural actions that follow. I have seen and heard people show and teach cuban motion in many ways. As long as the end effect is a natural movement it is all good, in my opinion.

[peachexploration]

Hi Freya! Welcome. :D

[tj]

Welcome to DF!

[Freya]

Chiii! Thanks!

It's a pleasure to participate in DF.
I agree with you, Sagitta. The "how" doesn't really matter (unless with this How you kill your students will to learn... :? ) as long as your body understands the movement. It takes time, and I believe a good one-to-one connection with an experienced teacher can solve all the doubts. I do it with my students; once a week we have a lesson to learn steps and improve technique, and once a week I invite them to come with me to the club, for a real time practice, on the dance floor.
I dance with each of them at least one song (usually more), and this way I feel I manage to give them the most regarding timing, latin movement and passion for dance.

[pygmalion]

Hi Freya!!! Welcome to the forums. :D

[Pacion]

Hi Freya and welcome!

At the risk of hijacking this thread :oops: I see that April 14-17, 2005 will be the 4th Annual Mediterranean Salsa Congress, Eilat, Israel.

www.salsa.org.il/congress/english/index.asp

Have you been to the others? What did you think?

[pygmalion]

:lol: :lol: Risk? Risk? Uhhh... Are you sure you didn't mean to say something more like this? "I'm blatantly hijacking this thread with nary a care, but ..." :wink: :lol: :lol: Shameless! Cute, but shameless. :lol:

[Pacion]

:lol: I learnt everything I know from you Pygmalion :lol: :friend: :lol:

[pygmalion]

:lol: :lol: :mrgreen:

[Freya]

Hi Pacion,

I haven't been in any of the three past congresses yet since they all started a few years ago and I've been busy being a mother, but I'm planning to go to the Fifth one, in 2005.
I've heard people had fun there, and with all those guests from abroad... I'm sure it was interesting!

[Sabor]

SHAKE THAT THING!!! .. by Sean Paul

[Pacion]

:roll: Shake what thing Sabor? :roll: :lol:

Great Freya. Hope you do get to the congress. Even if you just do it once, the concept, the energy, the everything is interesting!

[bonz]

Our instructor talked of this last night. He took us to the stairs. We would put a foot on a stair and push up then the next foot. Difficult to explain, but test the step on a staircase it may help.

[peachexploration]

Our instructor talked of this last night. He took us to the stairs. We would put a foot on a stair and push up then the next foot. Difficult to explain, but test the step on a staircase it may help.

Hi Bonz, welcome to DF. :D Here's some more info for using stairs. :arrow: Leaning Back (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?p=45774&highlight=stairs+hips#45774)