How to know when my steps are too long or short?

[Pacion]

Source: This week's mission (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=7201)

I think a take the new beginners missions as a challenge this week. Shorten the steps. (This makes sence regarding my failure last weekend ...do you remeber the tall dark Londoner I failed to dance with? :oops: )

But do anyone have a hint on how to really shorten the steps?
When I try to take the shortest possible step some people tells me they are fart too long. How can it be so?

Is it because a tall and bigfeeted girl is unable to take small steps compared to short latino girls or what is my problem?

Or is it because my step "feels" long for a the leader since I have quite long legs and a style that is quite dynamic (lots of hips and rolling butt :oops: - well as a fact rolling upper body :oops: )

Once upon a time one of my "dancementors" was satisfied with my steps. When I change to another guy he stopped after a few seconds and asked if I felt sick or if I didn't like to dance with him. I smiled and took up my old style - like a timberman walking in the forrest. He was so content that I was back to my ordinary style....

This brings us to the question - how do you adjust your step to your partner?
What beside the lenght of the leader might matter?
This man wasn't tall at all - thats why I believed he also wanted short steps. On the other hand I have danced with tall guys who have a very laidbackstyle. They let the girls do all the job and stay in the center of the dancespace. Here it is easy to start up taking long steps because you have to be able to complete the pattern. But sometimes I get so confused ...it doesn't work at all. I become to slow in my reaction.

I do know I have a problem with the steps - I have problem keeping the beat and problem having speed enough to complete som patterns keeping the beat. But I get so disapointed when everyone tells me I fail when I really try my best to reduce the steps.

Can you please give me any hint?

/Luc

[Pacion]

But do anyone have a hint on how to really shorten the steps?
When I try to take the shortest possible step some people tells me they are fart too long. How can it be so?

Is it because a tall and bigfeeted girl is unable to take small steps compared to short latino girls or what is my problem?

Or is it because my step "feels" long for a the leader since I have quite long legs and a style that is quite dynamic (lots of hips and rolling butt :oops: - well as a fact rolling upper body :oops: )

Hi Lucretia

First off, I am not a dance teacher (you wouldn't believe it from these missions huh? :wink: :lol: ) but, here are my thoughts - I think you have a number of things going on here in terms of feet and arms.

Arms - Based on other dance classes I have taken (thousands of years ago :oops: ) my teacher said: you should keep your elbow bent, when in the open position and you should be within "nose tweaking" distance. This is something I forgot about, in salsa, for a long time and a guy I was dancing with mentioned the bent elbow thingy and I was like :idea: :banana: Since then, I have made a concious effort to be aware of what my elbow is doing (bent vs extended) and it has made a difference. I still do extended from time to time but it depends now eg. if from the way we are dancing we are covering the floor or I want a particular look. :wink:

By keeping my elbows bent, the next thing is posture. I don't want to bend from the waist (bum out) etc so I have to take smaller steps. As a guide when doing the basic step or in closed position, I personally try and take a step that is twice the length of my front foot, starting from the toe - therefore, the actual space between the heel of my front foot and the toe of the foot at the back is about one foot length. As a guide!

Of course, if there are lots of people on the dancefloor or depending on what we are doing, my step is either in place or just beyond the width of my shoulders (and no, I don't wear shoulder pads a la the american footballers :wink: )

Looking at it another way, the smaller your steps, the less extension in your arm and therefore you and your partner are hopefully closer together.

Incidentally, it is also your partner's responsibility to do similar. Yes, one person doing it minimises the feeling of distance but it is even better when TWO are doing it :wink: :banana'

[tj]

Too long - when you end up outside the club? :wink:

[Houdinni]

As a guideline... If you fell like you literally have run the marathon in a 4 minute song... your steps might be a tad too long...

[Houdinni]

Are there people with steps too short??!!

Has someone oveachieved the shortness of steps??!! :D

[Pacion]

:doh: tj! :nope: :lol:

If your nose is out of reach of being tweaked by your dance partner, you are probably too far :wink:

If I were dancing with tj however, I might have to make it the rule rather than the exception :P :lol:

[Pacion]

Are there people with steps too short??!!

Has someone oveachieved the shortness of steps??!! :D

Just try stepping in place :raisebro:

[tj]

:doh: tj! :nope: :lol:

If your nose is out of reach of being tweaked by your dance partner, you are probably too far :wink:

If I were dancing with tj however, I might have to make it the rule rather than the exception :P :lol:

Just make sure to make a loud "HONK!" when you do it, m'dear!

[africana]

Just try stepping in place :raisebro:
you said that in jest but that's actually a trick that works for this tall follower when dancing with much shorter men

But normally I prefer moderate to long steps whenever I can because I like exerting myself while dancing, that's what affords me room to do some of my foot styling and shines.

Another thing I always guage to counterbalance that athletic tendency is the "tiredness", fitness level and mood of the man. If he seems like he's working really hard physically and just doesn't have the energy/excitement to be running around the dancefloor doing big moves, then I will shorten my steps and keep things smoother and simpler. However if he's good for a nice run, particularly with high-energy perucssive music, then I don't care too much about shortening steps and the dance will be a bit more dynamic

[Pacion]

Just try stepping in place :raisebro:
you said that in jest but that's actually a trick that works for this tall follower when dancing with much shorter men

Actually, I didn't quite say it totally in jest. It is a trick that also works on a crowded dancefloor! If everyone "stepped in place" and then just swapped places with their partners accordingly, there would be fewer bruises on the dancefloor :?

[tj]

Just try stepping in place :raisebro:
you said that in jest but that's actually a trick that works for this tall follower when dancing with much shorter men

Actually, I didn't quite say it totally in jest. It is a trick that also works on a crowded dancefloor! If everyone "stepped in place" and then just swapped places with their partners accordingly, there would be fewer bruises on the dancefloor :?

Edie/Al - when I took a workshop of theirs - mentioned how the trend in LA is to step in place rather than taking a big step backwards on the 1 (note: this may or may not be the case, but it's what they were advocating). I have noticed this as well on occasion, as some Follows that I dance with, tend to do a "wiggle in place" rather than a step back.

[Pacion]

:applause: a sensible post from tj :wink: :kissme: :lol:

It does make sense also to step practically in place for the first step. If you think about it (or standup and try it :wink: ) if you and your partner both have to take a step back AND take a step back, you are then two steps away from each other. If you take a BIG step back, then you are even further away, possibly resulting in extended/locked elbows... and more ground to cover to get back in a closed position.

Now if you both step in place :wink: you can be nice and cosy for a llllooottt (ie lot :lol: ) longer :lol: (now you see, this is where bachata is great :banana: :lol: )

[Sagitta]

Steps too shor, steps too long, steps at the wrong angle...just dance my friends, just dance... :wink: :)

[Pacion]

Sagitta, do you know how much a pair of lady's tights/panty hose costs these days? :roll: Sorry, I can't just dance, as you put it, knowing/fearing that someone is going to step on my foot (never mind the bruising!) and ruin my tights :?

Besides, Lucretia asked a valid question :D

[Sagitta]

Sagitta, do you know how much a pair of lady's tights/panty hose costs these days? :roll: Sorry, I can't just dance, as you put it, knowing/fearing that someone is going to step on my foot (never mind the bruising!) and ruin my tights :?

Besides, Lucretia asked a valid question :D

I wonder why I usually don't have a problem with people stepping on my feet? You should come on over P and save your feet. :wink: :)

[africana]

lol y'all wear tights?? haha i'm glad to be living in the liberated us of a :P

but seriously Pacion's right, if you're doing fast patterns to fast tempo songs you need smaller steps to have quick cleaner execution and conserve energy

[tj]

I wonder why I usually don't have a problem with people stepping on my feet?


Ooo, ooo! *raises hand*

Because Ithaca<>London!

:wink:

[Pacion]

lol y'all wear tights?? haha i'm glad to be living in the liberated us of a :P

:roll: Because someone wears tights, that makes them less liberated? :roll:

[tj]

lol y'all wear tights?? haha i'm glad to be living in the liberated us of a :P

:roll: Because someone wears tights, that makes them less liberated? :roll:

Yes, my "boys" need a home, but not that small of one!

(they'll certainly be more liberated when not in tights, methinks!)
:wink:

[Pacion]

http://www.forumsalsa.net/yabbse2/smilies/ahnon.gif

Any more "useful" tips/comments re the subject of this thread? :wink:

[amrimi]

When I was doing ballroom ages ago, when we would do to long steps, my teacher used to tell us that we should imagine to dance under one single umbrella and its raining and we both don't want to get wet. Ever since I found this a pretty good trick when I had to concentrate on shorter steps.

(I always thought it would be quite ridiculous to dance under an umbrella. But last summer I actually ended up dancing under an umbrella an did really work. They had this try for guiness book entry in chacha formation dancing in my town. But because of the bad weather not enough people showed up.)

About the decision when to make smaller and when to make bigger steps, my salsa teacher always tells us that the faster the music the shorter the steps and with slower music we can make longer steps.

[Pacion]

When I was doing ballroom ages ago, when we would do to long steps, my teacher used to tell us that we should imagine to dance under one single umbrella and its raining and we both don't want to get wet.

:shock: I love this suggestion/thought! Very romantic too :wink: :lol:

[jamaicanspice]

hmmmmmm :roll: my steps are usually small......I always like to imagine myself gliding so I usually spend alot of time on the balls of my feet and use as little space as possible when I move so my turns are tighter and my spins are smoother :)

[Vin]

I agree with JamaicanSpice, I try not to step but rather slide my feet across the floor.

[Big10]

I agree with JamaicanSpice, I try not to step but rather slide my feet across the floor.
Yes, most of the time I also keep my foot very close to the floor or even slide. As a result, it's VERY rare for me to actually step on somebody's foot.

The worst that usually happens to my partner (from me at least) is that my toe will bump into her toe....or, if we're too close and not aligned properly, my knee might bump hers. Much better than mashing all of my weight on her toes or anybody else's, of course. If there's a very crowded dance floor, there have been a few times when my raised heel has collided with somebody's leg behind me in the spot at or above their ankle (sometimes their fault for moving into my space, and sometimes my fault for moving in theirs :oops: ).....but again. the potential for injury is not as bad as the people who raise their feet way up and down.

I have above-average sized feet and I'm tall, so even a "small" natural step for me can cover as much ground as some people's regular step. I try to stay conscious of that and I try to adjust to whatever space is available, given the proximity of other dancers on the dancefloor. My true preference, though, is to move around a lot, including large steps if the area around me is relatively open. 8)

[MacMoto]

Edie/Al - when I took a workshop of theirs - mentioned how the trend in LA is to step in place rather than taking a big step backwards on the 1 (note: this may or may not be the case, but it's what they were advocating). I have noticed this as well on occasion, as some Follows that I dance with, tend to do a "wiggle in place" rather than a step back.
Yes, this is one of the key elements of their "millennium style". In her ladies styling workshops, Edie teaches "in-place styling instead of stepping back" on the 1 2 3. She says not stepping back on the 1 has the effect of making the follow feel lighter (any leaders care to comment?). It also makes your dance more compact, and it's fun to watch. I like it.

Of course, if there's loads of space and the leader wants to take big steps to cover the floor, it makes sense to match his step size.

[squirrel]

I take short steps and try to slide as much as possible... of course, the steppin' will be different for Cuban vs. slot dancing... but I won't lift my feet up in the sky for no reason (only for stying)... besides I've stepped on somebody's foot only once or twice, when the partner threw me off balance completely! :shock: Otherwise, since I do not use my heels too much, I tend to realise when someone's foot is under my high heel and prevent stepping back... :lol:

[Lucretia]

Thanks a lot for all the hints you have given me. I must do a lot of work now (at work :shock: - cannot write long right now) and some more work this night at the Club :D .

I'll get back later....

/Lucretia

[Sagitta]

Smaller the steps the more time you have. Many beginners, as they start to take smaller steps, relax as they find that they no longer feel rushed. I like the feel of small steps and compact dancing, personally. :)

And faster the music the smaller the steps - a general rule that does work as someone has alreday mentioned, previously.

Smaller the steps the easier it is to recover from mis-communications between partners, or cover them up, while dancing...

[Lucretia]

I see your point Sagitta.

But in some way small steps is far from my nature. I walk with huge steps. I dance freestyle with a excessive body language. Even when I do qui-gong I'm trying to conquere both the air and the space (you should see the look of my teacher :shock:). I guess it has to with my personality and my classical balette schooling.

It will surley take some time.

/Luc

[Sagitta]

Everyone has a different style. Mine is small small small, that's all. :)

[Lucretia]

I have read all that you have written once again.

Elbow bent and dancing under an umbrella are good trick easy to practice.

I've tried the stepping in place but I somehow forget it when I get inspired of the music and the dance. It's easy in the basics but when you need to transport yourself quickly enought its hard.

The image of gliding steps is new for me. I'll try that one.

This is so very true
Smaller the steps the more time you have. Many beginners, as they start to take smaller steps, relax as they find that they no longer feel rushed.

I'll usually manage fine in classes and with people I know how to dance with (does that make sence) but when I meet new leaders.... :oops: And good leaders :oops: :shock:

Byt the way - someone asked if steps really could be too short. One of my teacher is a short girl. She says she cannot manage to dance with tall guys because of the size of the steps. So it might be a problem for the shortleged ones.

This night I have to stay home catching up with my sleep. And tomorrow is no good day for dancing at the Club. People are so very late on Saturday evening and I have 120 km to go by car. I cannot manage to drive home at 04.00 on Sunday morning.

But....I was granted a dance passport :D (for free :shock:) giving me access to all classes on Mondays. So I will have a chance for practice after the weekend. In one of the classes they have a few free songs where you can play around. I'm looking forward to try these tricks and to meet a bunch of new leaders. :D



/Luc

[Sagitta]

Great Luc. :D Do be sure to report back...

[tj]

Oh, one big hint... if you or your partner keep on running into people around you (as opposed to getting hit while in place), you're probably guilty of taking too big steps.

Really amazing (and frustrating) that folks won't adjust. I've gotten kicked plenty of times while dancing in place. I even got kicked last Monday by a guy who was out of control during a shine!!! :shock:

[jamaicanspice]

8)

[Lucretia]

I had three classes last night.

The first one – Cuban – worked fine. All I thought about was the umbrella and elbow bent. My teacher reminded me as well about the elbow so this tips was correct. He liked the idea of dancing under an umbrella. I had a few dances in perfect harmony with some of the guys. But some tried to throw me out of center and I keept struggling back under the umbrella not getting wet :lol: .

The second class – line style – was a mess like always. But I cannot put all blame on myself, we are all too new dancing linestyle. If you add the problem with dancing on the floor of an old fishing vessel you can imagine the problem you have to keep the line as well. (The floor is not completely horizontal, it follows the curvature of the upper deck. You get seasick whenever you come close to the bar. With or without hard drinks :shock:)

A CBL+ travelspin together with the umbrella-principle created caos. The guy stept right into my space and sometimes almost upon me. I had to keep the distance to save my feet and my own space.

I ended up with a class in merengue but all except me where newbies so there was just to follow and look happy about everything. And people did look happy!

(It was quite fun when the guys in the linestyleclass where supposed to do their first doublespin ever. I guess they now know what they let us girls do all the time. Again again. Double spins, spins, triplespins again and again and not letting our heads “spin up” the dizziness in between. I guess this exercise makes them feel more respect over the work the lady is supposed to do.)

I will go on using you tips next time I go out. Perhaps on Friday!

/Luc

[Sagitta]

Cool. :) 8)

[jamaicanspice]

indeed...........way cool!!! :D

[HF]

The second class – line style – was a mess like always. But I cannot put all blame on myself, we are all too new dancing linestyle.


Don't worry. It is also possible to dance linestyle very small. The idea is that the two dancers stand relatively close and just change place during a CBL (dancing socially, not necessarily on stage or competition). It helps very much to bend the leading arm but also to find the connection with the other hand (the frame) as soon as possible after Cross Body Turns. Also when having not much space it is useful to reduce the size of the back step for avoiding bruises on other feet.

With that concept even double spins and more are possible in a crowded party.

Obviously if you travel less, you use less energy, which may feel a little bit more lame - this might be a reason why many dancers still like big steps even if this is not polite to others (happens at any style).

But one idea would be to put more passion into the body movements themselves - knees, hips, shoulders - than in pure horizontal momentum. Somewhere I have read something like: The masters basically dance the same patterns like the beginners, only smaller ... :wink:

[Sagitta]

But one idea would be to put more passion into the body movements themselves - knees, hips, shoulders - than in pure horizontal momentum. Somewhere I have read something like: The masters basically dance the same patterns like the beginners, only smaller ... :wink:

A good thing that I keep on working on small steps, smaller and smaller steps... :wink: :)

[Sabor]

u can always use measuring tape.. if u dont have it, a ruler then.. if not, hand spread, if not fingers, if not.. umm.. go buy some measuring tape :lol:

[Lucretia]

Thanks everyone! :D And Sabor :lol:

Putting energy in other parts than the legs will probably help. I've just watched Olivia D'assos video (http://oliviadasso.com/videoclips.html). I guess I know what you mean :wink:

I just got mailcontact with my favorite teacher in Linestyle. He is coming from London to Salsaweekend at Stenunsbaden. And since this dancefloor is horizontal all the way it will be easier. Meanwhile I'll go on practicing with your help.

/lucretia

[Lucretia]

Yes It helped!

Last night I managed to dance with one of the best dancers in Gothenburg. I didn't manage so well a few months ago. He made a nice comment on my improvment :D

I enjoyed these dances so much - the music and this excellent leader lifted me up to a new sensation. It was almost as good as s:oops:x (:wink:)

There were drop in classes in the beginning of the evening. I attended the newbies class and tried to put energy in every other piece of me than ordinary (watch the Olivia Dassons). This trick helped me to reduce the steps but gave me a hurting backbone. Perhaps one should try the motions alone in the livingroom first. :wink:

/Luc