Philadelphia Star Classic - Prechamp/Champ entries?

[skwiggy]

It seems that Philadelphia Star Classic (formerly known as UPENN Stardust) has extremely low entries for Prechamp and Champ in all styles. I remember last year there was a full final, and even semis in years past. It's a great comp, it's inexpensive, and there is scholarship money to be won. Why are none of the open level dancers going this year?

http://dolphin.upenn.edu/~ballroom/stardust/
http://www.ballroomregistrar.com/register/UPenn05/

But you can still register for it... :)

[Chris Stratton]

Many of the specific couples who made up last year's field (and often had long tenure in the college comp world) have either moved away or split up.

[skwiggy]

Attrition is a natural part of the dance scene, especially the collegiate dance scene. But there are still plenty of couples around. And the couples who were there last year are not necessarily the same couples who were there the year before.

Really, I'm just trying to get more people to come. ;)

[Kitty]

I'm coming.

doing bronze or silver though.

[Chris Stratton]

What really seems to be missing is the first few yardstick couples - with those, others would come. But the college scene isn't generating open couples who stay attached to teams at any great rate - those who do move substantially beyond syllabus origins now seem more inclined to branch out on their own, making decisions based on open fields rather than if their team is attending an event. (I did schedule my lesson in Boston for Sunday morning instead of Saturday on the off chance I'd find someone able to do a last minute entry, but at this point it doesn't look like there's enough chance of that to make the trip so complicated)

[Chris Stratton]

I do miss being able to just pick up and go to a comp...

[Katarzyna]

I think people register for open depending on who else attends. I don't think I would want to travel to a comp that doesn't even have a semi. Unless its really convenient...

UPenn is usually a great comp, but I think its in a different venue this year???

[Joe]

So why aren't you going, Katherine? :)

[HeelToe]

Shucks!

I didn't even know this comp existed... Next year!

[skwiggy]

HeelToe, it's not too late! You can register at the comp! :)

[Katarzyna]

Well, there is only one couple registered in open. I am not with a team anymore which makes travel plans a little bit more complicated.

[Chris Stratton]

I think there's been an attitude shift. Pretty much anyone doing gold syllabus is used to having a lot of incomplete finals, and either doesn't compete much or gets used to dancing for their own video camera. But there are just enough pre-champ/champ semifinals in adult events that it's less tempting to make do with the smaller events. Since many of the couples at that level are taking an almost dance-inhibiting approach to training, the lower frequency that comes from attending only the larger competitions doesn't feel like such a loss. It seems like the real challenge is training to be competitive in these divisions, without loosing the freedom and desire to simply dance.

[skwiggy]

But why isn't UPENN one of the events with a semi? Only 2 years ago it was. And just last year it was a full final, 7 couples IIRC. It's inexpensive, well run, and there is scholarship money. Why did this comp drop off over the last couple of years?

And more importantly, have I convinced anyone to come tomorrow? :)

[Chris Stratton]

How many of the people who danced there two years ago are still reasonably close and partnered? Who do you think would come to replace them? Even MAC was only a semifinal in pre-champ this year, and looking over that list I see only perhaps 4 prospects for UPenn.

[Katarzyna]

I love Stardust ballroom. I think that if the comp was held there again, I would consider going...

Not sure why the comp is so small this year... I guess higher level dancers on different teams graduate and move to other regions???

[callen]

But why isn't UPENN one of the events with a semi? Only 2 years ago it was. And just last year it was a full final, 7 couples IIRC. It's inexpensive, well run, and there is scholarship money. Why did this comp drop off over the last couple of years?

I cannot speak for everyone, but some of the surrounding competitions could certainly cause problems. I know a number of dancers who did not show up to MAC because regionals is scheduled so close to it and they didn't want to make the trip twice. Yet MAC, in terms of time, is twice as far away from regionals as is UPENN.

As for my specific case: First, Elona's working all day. Second, we're expecting to dance in NY Dance Festival, NJ Dancesport Classic, perhaps Utah, and David and Esther's one in CT. That's four in five weeks starting in only a few weeks.

Things to help maintain a competition at the higher levels: 1) It helps if there's a lull in local and important non-local competitions. Or, if it's close, have it after the others. For example, MIT is set at a time after most of the local stuff and also in a lull, though a week or two later might hit more of a lull. 2) Cultivate a relationship with non-collegiate dancers. These dancers provide a more stable base for the higher level event. Collegiate dancers frequently graduate shortly after reaching the upper levels, so it's hard to count on them to maintain field sizes. At UMCP we knew a number of the better local couples and would specifically invite them to come.

Christopher

[skwiggy]

Callen,

I was sorry to have missed you at the MAC. I was only there on Saturday night. I saw your name registered, I was hoping I would run into you. Looks like I'll have to wait until NJ Classic to say hello. Sounds like a very busy comp schedule for you and Elona.

See you in NJ!

Guess who? ;)

[Katarzyna]

Chris, do you have more information on
NY Dance Festival?
When is it?

[Chris Stratton]

Hope everyone is having a great day at the comp - let us know how it goes.

[pygmalion]

Things to help maintain a competition at the higher levels: 1) It helps if there's a lull in local and important non-local competitions. Or, if it's close, have it after the others. For example, MIT is set at a time after most of the local stuff and also in a lull, though a week or two later might hit more of a lull. 2) Cultivate a relationship with non-collegiate dancers. These dancers provide a more stable base for the higher level event. Collegiate dancers frequently graduate shortly after reaching the upper levels, so it's hard to count on them to maintain field sizes. At UMCP we knew a number of the better local couples and would specifically invite them to come.


Interesting. I was wondering if part of the problem might just be the transient nature of college life -- people graduate.

Are there other issues, like money, for example, that contribute to a high attrition rate?

[Chris Stratton]

It's not really the transitory nature of students - undergraduates arguably stay in one place longer than most young professionals. What it seems to be is a demographic shift - at one point, a lot of people had stayed in (or joined) college dance communities either as grad students or often while working nearby. But the specific people doing that seem to be drifting away, either from dancing, or simply from collegiate dancing. And the collegiate world really only generates two or thee serious open couples a year, which can't immediately offset the recent spike in departures.

Anyway, I hear a rumor some people had a good day down there ;-)

[pygmalion]

Cool. I hope the folks in question will come back and tell us how things went. 8)

And I'm pondering the demographic shift, Chris. I wonder what's happening. My first guess would have been the squeeze in the US economy over the past several years. Not sure how much that matters, since it's my impression that college-oriented training and competition are fairly reasonable in price.

But then, if we're talking about local adults near college comps, the economy might be relevant. Lost jobs, or job-related relocation might figure into what's happening. If so, as the economy rebounds, there might be an opportunity for ballroom to rebound, as well.

But, if the underlying issue(s) are something else, it's anybody's guess. Or let's say, I have no idea.

[Chris Stratton]

I also think that the level of dancing in the amateur fields has gotten, if not better, at least more ambitious. That makes it harder for the collegiate teams to help prepare anyone to keep up with trends in adult events, and thus less interesting for those targeting adult events to go to collegiate comps. Ironically, I do think the collegiate teams sometimes teach some of the skills that most pressingly need improvement at that level, but primarily to their beginner and intermediate members, while if the advanced couples get anything it's mostly choreography.

[pygmalion]

So how do you (or how does the ballroom community) bridge the gap? It seems like some sort of partnership between dance studios and college teams could be a win-win for everyone.

[Chris Stratton]

While such partnerships provide some help, one of the problems is that they often mean non-team members are somewhat left out or steered into the pro-am track. A studio may do a good job of developing a team through the early levels, but that often isn't a large enough base group to sustain things into the upper levels. Meanwhile since few independents have been developed through intermediate level, they aren't available to fill in up top where the team is too sparse to be self sufficient.

[pygmalion]

Hmm. No wonder you talked about the difficulties of compartmentalization in your recruiting/retention thread. I wonder what, if anything, can be done.

[Kitty]

Cool. I hope the folks in question will come back and tell us how things went. 8)

The Dancing is back! It was awesome!


Today my partner and I

- won all our events (we only entered one style one level)
- placed out of collegiate bronze standard
- got our first trophy
- got a comment from our coach that we looked great and much improved since MAC

[madmaximus]

Cool!

Congratulations Kitty!!! :D




madmaximus

[pygmalion]

Yay!!! :banana: :banana: Where are the musical smilies, when you need them? Big yay!!! Congrats. :D