Why Do Dancers Smoke?

[BodiesByBija]

WHY DO DANCERS SMOKE?
BY Bija Satterlee, Fitness Coach, 3 Times Representative to the World Senior Dancesport Championships.

Published in Dancebeat Feb 2005

IN A COMPETITIVE WORLD LIKE DANCING, people go to extreme lengths to improve themselves. The money spent on lessons, the dedication to long hours of practice, the intense focus and competitive mindset makes you think dancers leave no stone unturned to get ahead in their careers. Why then, would serious dancers take up a habit as self-destructive as smoking? From ballet dancers to ballroom dancers, you see them shivering outside in the rain, having a smoke. How does this compute?

Whenever you light a cigarette, the nicotine causes an increase in your heart rate and blood pressure, and the air passages in your lungs constrict, making it more difficult for you to breathe. From an athletic standpoint, it is like dancing with a 50 pound weight on your back. Within minutes of lighting up, carcinogens, and toxic gases, such as carbon monoxide, enter your bloodstream. This can cause chest pain and disturbance of your heart rhythm during physical activity or exercise, and it impairs your ability to perform.

We all have friends and loved ones who have the habit, and perhaps you smoke yourself. It’s such a frustrating subject because smoking is so intensely addictive. Current smokers hate to be reminded of it. They roll their eyes and say, “I KNOW, I KNOW...” and the discussion ends there. Because they DO know, and a large majority of them would like to quit.

Cigarette smoking remains the number one preventable cause of death in the Western world. The litany of negative effects caused by smoking are well documented, and yet every day millions of young people (and dancers) start smoking for the first time.

DRAWBACKS OF SMOKING FOR DANCERS:
• Reduced athletic performance.
Need we say more...
• Increased risk of illness.
Studies show that smokers get more colds, flu, bronchitis, and pneumonia than nonsmokers.
• Greater risk of injury and slower healing time.
Smoking affects the body's ability to produce collagen, so common dance injuries, such as damage to tendons and ligaments, heal more slowly in smokers than nonsmokers.
• Expensive.
Smoking averages $1800. / year. You could buy a new tail suit every year with that money!
• Bad breath.
Decidedly unglamorous.
• Bad-smelling clothes and hair.
Hard to get the smell out, but since smoke diminishes your sense of taste and smell, you may not notice it yourself.
• Premature Facial Wrinkling.
Reduced blood flow to the skin and restricted collagen production. (We can’t have this!)
• Risk factor for Erectile Dysfunction. (This either!)

SMOKERS HAVE SIGNIFICANTLY ELEVATED RISKS of heart attack, stroke and cancer of many types including the throat, mouth, esophagus and lungs; kidneys, pancreas, stomach and bladder. Those who smoke the most have the highest risk of death and disease. Furthermore, the younger a person is when they start smoking, the more dramatic their chances of getting life-threatening diseases. A study of people with lung cancer found that those who started smoking before age 15 had TWICE as many cell mutations as those who started after age 20. And teens who smoked had impaired memory function.

SECONDHAND SMOKE is a cause of disease for those who are around it. Children of smokers are more likely to have asthma, allergies, and be prone to bronchitis and other respiratory illnesses.

“In California they’ve passed a law, so now there’s no smoking in bars, and soon no eating and no talking!”
~ Eddie Izzard, comedian

A WORD ABOUT CIGARS
Some people have the misconception that cigars are not as dangerous as cigarettes. This is just false. A cigar has as much nicotine as a whole pack of cigarettes, and the leaves they are rolled in are cured for over a year in chemicals that are released during smoking. Secondhand smoke from cigars contains many of the same poisons (toxins) and cancer-causing agents (carcinogens) as cigarette smoke but in higher concentrations.

Some of the toxins or carcinogens in cigar smoke include:
• carbon monoxide
• nicotine
• hydrogen cyanide
• ammonia
• arsenic

YIKES!!!! People KNOW all this, and still hold tightly to the habit. I ask again, Why would dancers put their careers at risk, smell up their beautiful clothes and hair, stain their teeth and fingers, impair their athletic ability, and invite disease into their lives?

I asked some dancers why they smoke. Here are their responses:
• “I smoke very occasionally, when I’m around others who smoke. I can’t help myself, it’s like I have to do something with my hands.”
• “I know it’s bad. I’ll quit some day. Just not right now.”
• “It helps me keep my weight down. Instead of eating, I smoke.”
• “In (my home country) everyone smokes from the time we’re teens. Only here in the U.S. do people seem to care about it.”
• “I quit several times but being around other people who smoke makes it hard not to. It’s a social thing.”

The addictive quality of tobacco is equal to that of heroin; it is almost impossible NOT to get addicted. Therefore, quitting is a major undertaking.

WHY QUIT?
While many of the effects of smoking are long-term, others are reversible. The ‘good news’ is smokers who quit before age 30 avoid more than 90 percent of the risks of smoking! Quit now and you will reduce your risk of heart attack, cancer and stroke, as well as add years to your life! As you smoke, your pulmonary function is rapidly declining. Once you stop, the rate of decline slows down, giving you a second chance with your health. Quitting at any age is advisable, as the risk of disease becomes less once you quit.

HOW TO QUIT?
Many methods exist for stopping smoking. The most important thing is that you BELIEVE you can do it! An addiction can’t be broken in half an hour. Nicotine addiction is only thought to be about 10% of the battle. The rest is psychological and behavioral. Combined therapies including the patch, nicotine gum, and group counseling work better together than individual methods alone. Meanwhile, you need to learn to think like a nonsmoker, and to find other ways to socialize, relax, maintain your weight, and manage stress.

LIST YOUR REASONS
Making your own list of reasons to quit can help you stay the course in trying times. Keep adding to the list every day. List the freedoms you will enjoy once you overcome your addiction. Post it where you see it every day. Take it very seriously. Every day you continue to smoke could be a day of recovery. Every pack adds up, and the longer you smoke, the more damage you do to your body.

Set a date. Get support. Just decide to do it. Help your friends, help yourself, encourage smokers around you to kick the habit, and discourage young people from starting. Two immediate rewards are easier breathing and more money... things every dancer can use!

Here are some web sites with programs and information about quitting smoking and staying smoke free. Check them out and at least get started with this very important step in your life. And good luck!
www.itseasyitworks.com
www.quitnet.com
www.quitsmokingsupport.com
www.tobaccofree.org

Read previous articles on Fitness for Dancers at www.bodiesbybija.com. Get future articles delivered to your inbox by signing up on line. You may also contact me to discuss this or other fitness issues.
In Joy and Good Health,

~ Bija Satterlee

[dancin_feet]

I only smoke if I'm moving fast. :lol:

:banana:

[DancePoet]

Phew! I was beginning to wonder after that cigarette comment over on another thread, but I'm thankful my readinig of that as a joke was correct. ;)

[cocodrilo]

Why do dancers, or any athletes for that matter, smoke? I would say half because they don't really care about their bodies(Why do dancers drink cola & eat fast food?) but the other half of the dancers that smoke, although they may be desperate to quit, are hopelessly addicted to the nicotene and other chemical additives that the ingenious tobacco industry blends into the tobacco to keep them addicted. If any of you have ever smoked and quit successfully(as have I) then you will truly know how hard it is to give up the habit.

[DancePoet]

I've had friends that have tried to quit smoking, and it has been painful watching them go through the process of trying to break the addiction. :(

[cocodrilo]

I've had (and still have) a lot of friends and students who are suffering from the effects of smoking(including financially as cigarettes cost over $7 a pack here!) and, exactly as Bija has written above, have heard all those reasons. Those are excuses given by smokers, trying to deny their situation, and we will hear it again and again("I only smoke when I drink" is a common one from a buddy of mine, and he goes out for drinks 4 nights a week!) until the smoker is mentally perpared to quit. There is a thread on this on the Health Forums, if anyone is thinking of quitting and wants to read more.

[newbie]

I know many dancers from ballroom and A.T communities, and as I see it the rate of smokers within random dancers like you and me (ok, like me...) is the same than within the overall population, but the really good dancers (either the ballet pros who dance A.T or ballroom socially, or the teachers) I know are almost all deeply addicted to tobacco.
So, from a statistic point of view, the conclusion is that cigarettes will improve your dance skills...

[cocodrilo]

Either that, or change the question to "Why do smokers dance?" 8)

[BodiesByBija]

Along the lines of addiction, I am extremely impressed, proud, and happy for those of you who have quit, for it is insanely addictive, and it takes a very determined person to quit. You have to believe in your REASONS to quit, and never give up, and use a multi-pronged approach.

Cocodrillo, congratulations to you. You are a good example for the others!

[Swingolder]

I wish there would be more emphasis on the money aspect of smoking - especially to young people. They might not be impressed by buying a new tail suit, but $1800 would be a good starter car, a great computer, or a lot less hours having to work at the local convenience store.

Because once they start, it is a lifelong battle. I have a sister who gave up smoking 30 years ago and says when she is done eating dinner, a cigarette would taste so good to her!

[Twilight_Elena]

Smoking is such a bad habit. I have a girl friend who smokes every once in a while. I hate cigarettes and think smoking is the worst thing ever, but I don't know how to tell her to stop. She goes "It's only every now and then, what's the big deal"?

Twilight Elena

P.s. I'm itching to ask a dance teacher I know about the reasons she smokes...

[dTas]

my dance partner smokes. i've gotten used to it actually. not saying that i would start smoking but its funny... whenever i smell her brand of cigaretts now i think of her. kinda like perfume.... kinda.

but she works out, eats right, takes good care of her body and her mind... but she just can't give up the tobacco.

she's very conscience of non-smokers and stays away from people when she "lights up". i don't think she likes the habit but like everyone's been implying... "its insainly addictive".

[foursquare]

WHY DO DANCERS SMOKE?
BY Bija Satterlee, Fitness Coach, 3 Times Representative to the World Senior Dancesport Championships.

Sigh. Time to edit the title of this thread to "WHY I WANT TO PONTIFICATE ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE'S HABITS."

You don't touch on the subject of the title of the thread even once in your article.

Sigh. If you can't join 'em, bash 'em!

foursquare

[cocodrilo]

WHY DO DANCERS SMOKE?
BY Bija Satterlee, Fitness Coach, 3 Times Representative to the World Senior Dancesport Championships.

Sigh. If you can't join 'em, bash 'em!

foursquare
Oh but you CAN "join 'em!" I think Bija wanted to point out the dangers of joining 'em and how one could give up the habit.

[BodiesByBija]

Sigh. Time to edit the title of this thread to "WHY I WANT TO PONTIFICATE ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE'S HABITS."


Hello Mr Foursquare. Welcome to the discussion on my article.
I am sorry you have taken offense at my discussion of dancers and smoking.

It is part of my job to help people stop smoking, and I deal with the psychological and physical stresses of it in my clients routinely.

Occasionally I do tackle subjects that cause people pain, but my purpose is to help them resolve their issues. I approach my work with compassion, and most people respect my work.

[Kuriin]

I know peoples' reasons: Weight and Frustration with Dance. If you don't take care of your body, you're gonna get frustrated regardless, because Dancing is competitive.

[labelledanseuse]

One of the teahcers at my studio smokes. I think another one does, too (he kind of smells like smoke). I don't understand why professional dancers smoke. Actually, I don't understand why ANYONE smokes. It's such as nasty habit. Why do some people find it so attractive to inhale dangerous chemicals?

[mamboqueen]

I've had friends that have tried to quit smoking, and it has been painful watching them go through the process of trying to break the addiction.

From personal experience, it is much more painful to watch them dying the slow death of lung cancer.

[ReneeJoan]

Why do dancers smoke? Smoking is a very self-destructive thing to do. Why does anyone engage in any self-destructive behavior? At the root of any self-destructive behavior is a core of self-loathing, a desire to "destroy the self." So to "smoke out" why someone hates themselves so much that they would try to deliberately kill themselves by slow suicide is probably specific to the individual. But having wasted far too much of my life in depression and toying with suicide, I know what that's like. And until you get at the root of that self-loathing, all those bad habits (smoking, eating, substance abuse, drinking, risky sex) are going to continue, or you'll just substitute one for another.

Fostering a desire to live is the key, really, to ending any sort of self-destructive behavior pattern. A desire not only to live, but to live with JOY. Our society does not offer too much in the way of hope or joy. At least for me, dancing is one way of expressing that. A couple of times, people have told me that I inspire them when I dance. That's probably the finest thing anyone has ever said that to me. Maybe, just maybe, they will take that inspiration and use it to better their lives -- take up dancing, stop smoking/drinking, lose weight, take better care of themselves.

I have to believe that this is possible. I know it worked for me.

[squirrel]

:) I am a smoker, sort of... :)

I only smoke when I go out! :)

If I don't go out, I don't smoke! If I have a cold, I don't smoke even if I go out!

I never smoke in the office, for instance! Don't even feel the need! When I go to the montains, I don't smoke either... I guess I just like smoking...

[randomMysh]

My mom smokes a lot. I think part of it is that her lifestyle is insanely stressful, and part of it is the general culture in Russia--everybody smokes everywhere. I don't think it's self-destructive, though. She's a very healthy person in other aspects of her life. She tried to quit a few times, and man, was I glad that I didn't live with her at the time! Actually, being on another continent was a very good thing at the time... :roll: She always goes back to smoking, though.
I tried encouraging her to quit, but she doesn't really take advice very well. Especially when she knows it's true. What're you gonna do....I'm just trying not to think of lung cancer and other scary stuff, since there's nothing I can do to get her to stop.

[mamboqueen]

Squirrel -- stick to the nuts! Or stay inside!

Randomysh - I feel for you. My mother smoked when I was young, too. I developed the habit for a few years in my early 20's, but quit. What I find interesting is people who go back to it. I think the smell bugs me even more being a reformed smoker. I can't imagine going back to it.

It's an addictive habit, for sure. And there are plenty of them.

About smoking and dancing - it's definitely got to effect your lung capacity. I'm in very good physical shape now (thanks in large part to getting laid off and having plenty of time to work out!), but when I don't get much exercise time in, it's very hard for me to maintain my stamina and not get winded. I think if dancer/smokers were able to stop, they'd see a big difference in this area.

[squirrel]

@mamboqueen: unlike cigarettes, nuts are fattening... so I guess I'll stick to the former... ;)

[mamboqueen]

*LOL* Squirrel! But nuts have lots of protein!!!

Funny you should say that, though, because whenever I order an ice-cream sundae and the person asks if I want nuts, I say "no thanks, they're fattening". I try to see if they are swift enough....

[htnguyen32]

Most dancers don't smoke because smoking will decrease their stamina. so smoking would be bad if you are a dancer

[Whirling Dervish]

A few nuts=good. A few cigarettes=bad.

Tons of nuts=bad. Tons of cigs=very bad.

You do the math. ;)

I always wondered that, too. At one studio where I taught I was the only one who didn't smoke. They didn't allow smoking in the studio, which I was thankful for, but the place still stank of it. And their general endurance was much lower than mine.

I like my pink lungs, but lost my parents to smoke, so I feel randomysh's pain as well. Like a friend with asthma once said, "Breathing is good."

[Salcero]

I got a friend who smokes weed when b4 we go out dancing. He says it helps him to relax and I think it makes it easier for him to ask women to dance and talk to them.

Me, personally, I don't even like to drink if I'm doing some serious social dancing. I also don't like smoke of any kind.

[Whirling Dervish]

Oh, yeah--drinking is another issue. I can't drink and dance, either. Dancing requires too much quick response, and when you drink you just don't have it (I mean heavily, not one glass of wine or something). I rememebr trying it once--ROFL!

[Spitfire]

Actually, I know very few dancers who smoke.

[Sagitta]

great...which means you get to hang around with them a lot more without their extra baggage (smell etc that hangs around smokers....)

[Spitfire]

great...which means you get to hang around with them a lot more without their extra baggage (smell etc that hangs around smokers....)

Yup, at any dance I might see maybe two people at the most the whole evening outside taking a smoke break.

[Sabor]

for some reason .. best dancers the world have known happen to be smokers .. go figure

i smoke.. and if i may add.. smell great (always get complimented).. u just need to take care of yourself well.. which u should do either way ;)

[hepcat]

I don't actively go around complaining or antagonizing smokers, but I don't approach them. The smell aggravates my asthma, as do perfumes and other chemical odors. I don't like feeling like I can't take satisfying breaths - I have enough trouble as it is, so I even hold my breath when walking by someone who's smoking to get past the smoke without inhaling it. I don't make a face or do anything politically incorrect. In fact, I try and hide the fact that I'm holding my breath. The other night I was passing by a smoker in a hallway at my apartment complex. She said hi and I REALLY didn't want to inhale the smoke, so I just nodded. I didn't slow my pace though because I didn't think I could hold my breath very long.

If that seems extreme, imagine going a week and taking only a relative handful of satisfying breaths despite being on 4 asthma-related medications... That happens to me every once in awhile and I will do anything to avoid triggering it. You may debate whether or not smoke can trigger that, but it's so unpleasant, I'd rather not risk it. In my experience, it does.


Incidentally, I was googling around just the other day to investigate breathing problems because I've had more trouble breathing lately than usual and it's so frustrating. (I suspect a neighbor's smoke is somehow getting into my apartment because I can smell it sometimes when I come in my door. It's so frustrating.) I question whether or not my problems are actually due to asthma. Perhaps it's something not yet medically defined. I found an interesting potential cause: a medication called accutane that's commonly prescribed by dermatologists. One of the long-lasting side effects people have been complaining about is breathing trouble. I found a web forum where there's rumblings that a class action lawsuit is forming.


When I can't breathe well, I can't keep up the pace when I'm dancing and I hate that. Luckily there's only two dancers I know who smoke. One smokes rarely and the other doesn't come very much.

-hepcat

[pygmalion]

Iso I even hold my breath when walking by someone who's smoking to get past the smoke without inhaling it. I don't make a face or do anything politically incorrect. In fact, I try and hide the fact that I'm holding my breath.

I do that too. An old, ingrained habit. Second hand smoke is deadly, even if you don't have asthma.

Ya know what I hate? Sitting at the stoplight, in my car, behind someone who's smoking with their car window open. Guess what happens, if I'm stuck at the light long enough? I start smelling their smoke. It comes in through the cooling system intake. Blech.

[PasoDancer]

When someone is inconsiderate of their smoking around me, I withdraw my rather horrible-smelling Matchabelli Windsong mini aerosol (kept just FOR This purpose, as I have no idea how ANYBODY can actually WEAR this pressurized urine) can and spritz it once in the air. When they complain of the odor (it's never to your face, of course- just the loud, offhand comments), I just smile.

I don't mind other people smoking - to each his/her own... unless it overlaps and infringes upon mine. Then they can take it back and keep it to themselves, be it cigarette smoke, cologne, other odors, or other inconveniences.

[Shooshoo]

I don't mind other people smoking - to each his/her own... unless it overlaps and infringes upon mine. Then they can take it back and keep it to themselves, be it cigarette smoke, cologne, other odors, or other inconveniences.

True.
I find it quite something when smokers complain that other smokers are puffing smoke on their face. I also dislike veru strong smelling perfumes and air freshners.

[Joe]

Hell, if I'm driving behind someone who's smoking in their car I can smell the smoke.

When I'm walking around and people are smoking, I start coughing, just to make a point. :D

[mamboqueen]

Hell, if I'm driving behind someone who's smoking in their car I can smell the smoke.

When I'm walking around and people are smoking, I start coughing, just to make a point. :D


I love a subtle guy ;)

My biggest pet peeve (well, apart from having to stand within 50 yards of a cigarette) are the dipsh*ts who insist that they not get their car ashtray dirty and flick their cigarette out the window for those behind to dodge. It always makes me wish I had a can of soda or some other food in my car and I could reciprocate and see how they like it.

[Merrylegs]

I like this idea! I like your attitude, too. We should hang out!!! :)


When someone is inconsiderate of their smoking around me, I withdraw my rather horrible-smelling Matchabelli Windsong mini aerosol (kept just FOR This purpose, as I have no idea how ANYBODY can actually WEAR this pressurized urine) can and spritz it once in the air. When they complain of the odor (it's never to your face, of course- just the loud, offhand comments), I just smile.

[Merrylegs]

Joe, I hear ya! I do the same thing.

I can't stand smoking/smokers. It totally pisses me off when I try to enter or exit my office building and I have to hold my breath when I pass all the fools shivering outside the building holding their cigarettes.

I'm a pretty hostile anti-smoker, I lost both of my parents to smoking related causes: my dad to complications from having mouth cancer and my mother to Leukemia. My dad was only 57 years old and my mother only 58. Completely avoidable on their part.

Hell, if I'm driving behind someone who's smoking in their car I can smell the smoke.

When I'm walking around and people are smoking, I start coughing, just to make a point. :D

[hepcat]

Ya know what I hate? Sitting at the stoplight, in my car, behind someone who's smoking with their car window open. Guess what happens, if I'm stuck at the light long enough? I start smelling their smoke. It comes in through the cooling system intake. Blech.

I haven't noticed this issue specifically with smoking, but there are some old cars out there that seem to burn oil and belch out foul smelling odors. I absolutely hate that. They should get pulled over and their cars impounded or something. Two things you can do to mitigate the problem is: set your AC to recirculate the air in your car instead of bring in air from the outside. This setting is usually called "max" or has a curve arrow because it's cooling previously cooled air (cycling it in from the vents nearest the floor and out the vents on the dash) and thus cools much faster. The other thing I do is change lanes and ride the line furthest from the stinker, although that doesn't help at a stoplight.

-hepcat

[PasoDancer]

We should hang out!!!
LOL, Yep!

... in Non-smoking, :lol:

[Merrylegs]

yes, you, Joe and me all in the non-smoking section of a restaurant!!!

[saludas]

yes, you, Joe and me all in the non-smoking section of a restaurant!!!

Thank goodness most states have no smoking laws in restaurants.. at least in the NYC area..

[hepcat]

Thank goodness most states have no smoking laws in restaurants.. at least in the NYC area..

NM has a law that says you can't smoke within 30 feet of any doors or windows of a public building, which is nice. I wish there was a law here for bars (like in California) because they're the only places bands play here. Some have some small but decent dance floors too. Thus I never get to go out dancing to live bands except for when they're at two different restaurants.

Smoke free bars? Probably'll never happen here unfortunately. Do any other states have that besides California?

-hepcat

[pygmalion]

I haven't noticed this issue specifically with smoking, but there are some old cars out there that seem to burn oil and belch out foul smelling odors. I absolutely hate that. They should get pulled over and their cars impounded or something. Two things you can do to mitigate the problem is: set your AC to recirculate the air in your car instead of bring in air from the outside. This setting is usually called "max" or has a curve arrow because it's cooling previously cooled air (cycling it in from the vents nearest the floor and out the vents on the dash) and thus cools much faster. The other thing I do is change lanes and ride the line furthest from the stinker, although that doesn't help at a stoplight.

-hepcat

Thanks. I'll try changing my AC setting. :)_

[mamboqueen]

NM has a law that says you can't smoke within 30 feet of any doors or windows of a public building, which is nice. I wish there was a law here for bars (like in California) because they're the only places bands play here. Some have some small but decent dance floors too. Thus I never get to go out dancing to live bands except for when they're at two different restaurants.

Smoke free bars? Probably'll never happen here unfortunately. Do any other states have that besides California?

-hepcat


No smoking in bars in Massachusetts! Yay! It's only a few years old, and the bars blew a gasket, but you know what? They're still getting plenty of business.

[PasoDancer]

I'll leave the Windsong at home! That stuff is awful. (Ok, I carry it so that if our studio is out of Degree aerosol in the bathroom, I have something to spritz my shoes with, otherwise they're deadly!) ROFL

[fascination]

I'll leave the Windsong at home! That stuff is awful. (Ok, I carry it so that if our studio is out of Degree aerosol in the bathroom, I have something to spritz my shoes with, otherwise they're deadly!) ROFLwe have tabu for that...which I think is WORSE than the foot odor

[fascination]

yes, you, Joe and me all in the non-smoking section of a restaurant!!!omg...THAT would be one helluva dangerous sight to see;) (fun tho')

[Sagitta]

hmm...

[fascination]

ya know you just really make me wonder when you do that

[cornutt]

I can count on one hand the number of cigarettes I've smoked in my life. When I was about six years old, one day I got into my dad's chest of drawers and found a cigar and a lighter. I lit it, took one huge drag, and...

I think I was sick for the rest of the day. I probably coughed for an hour, and I couldn't keep dinner down that evening. My did didn't punish me much; I guess he figured I'd already learned my lesson. :rolleyes: And he was right. I never had any desire to smoke after that.

[cornutt]

Our city passed an interesting ordinance last fall. Each restraunt and bar in the city had to declare itself either all-smoking or all-nonsmoking. The catch is, an establishment that declares itself all-smoking cannot admit anyone under 18. The basic result is that all the bars went smoking and every other establishment that serves food went nonsmoking.

[PasoDancer]

Sounds like popular sovreignty, Lol.

[Whirling Dervish]

No smoking in bars in Massachusetts! Yay! It's only a few years old, and the bars blew a gasket, but you know what? They're still getting plenty of business.

Same thing just passed here in Denver. As you said, bar owners went nuts. They keep saying it will kill their business. But the bars that did it voluntarily a few years ago have actually had an increase in business--they got people out who wouldn't normally go to a bar because of the smoke.

[hepcat]

Same thing just passed here in Denver. As you said, bar owners went nuts. They keep saying it will kill their business. But the bars that did it voluntarily a few years ago have actually had an increase in business--they got people out who wouldn't normally go to a bar because of the smoke.

I wonder what the affect is now that it's universal? Are the ones that did it voluntarily still doing well now that non-smokers have more choices?

[mamboqueen]

Same thing just passed here in Denver. As you said, bar owners went nuts. They keep saying it will kill their business. But the bars that did it voluntarily a few years ago have actually had an increase in business--they got people out who wouldn't normally go to a bar because of the smoke.


Well, and if you want to go into demographics, my guess is that a majority of people who smoke are of lower income and don't have as much to spend on drinks as non-smokers....and of course, at what $5.00 a pack (???), the smokers are spending that much less on booze because of all the money they're dropping on butts.

[fascination]

(squelches urge to ponder how much money you and I would drop on...butts...lol)

[Peaches]

Purely out of curiosity...

If we assume that having all smokers flat-out quit is not an option...is there any-bloody-thing that us smokers could do to actually get the griping to stop?

I mean, at some point people have got to accept annoyances around them. (I am NOT talking about people with severe asthma or allergies, here.) So you walk by someone on the sidewalk and they're smoking. I get that the smell may be unpleasant, but for the love of god that cannot be a justification for being rude. Just keep walking and let it go. Sheesh.

I absolutely hate the smell of any kind of seafood, but i don't start gagging when I smell it at a restaurant or wherever.

And yes, I know smoking is dangerous to my health, and second-hand is dangerous to others. But what wafts by you on the sidewalk is NOT going to give you cancer. (See my above disclaimer regarding asthma.)

At this point, a lot of places have made every reasonable effort to protect non-smokers, and yet there is STILL carping about it. What in bloody h*ll else do you people want from us?!?!

(I'm not actually pissed, just very frustrated by this thread. I honestly mean no offense, and hope that the tone of the post isn't taken that way.)

[hepcat]

If we assume that having all smokers flat-out quit is not an option...is there any-bloody-thing that us smokers could do to actually get the griping to stop?

That's actually somewhat ironic: Just as making all smokers quit is not an option, the same goes for griping about smoking. Both are unatainable extremes. ;)

[Peaches]

That's actually somewhat ironic: Just as making all smokers quit is not an option, the same goes for griping about smoking. Both are unatainable extremes. ;)

Fair point.

However, from what I've seen on this thread, no reasonable amount of accomodation and consideration is ever enough. Instead, for whatever reason, smoking in any way/shape/form seems to have become a licensce for rude behavior that would not be tolerated under any other circumstance. In fact, new and more extreme ways of being rude seem to be applauded.

Smoke isn't the only smell that clings to people--curry and garlic (even if not eaten the same day with some people) come to mind. Would anyone be expected to tolerate being sprayed down with hideous "perfume" if that was the lingering smell? Of course not. (For that matter, hideous perfume lingers as well.)

From the posts on this thread, reasonable accomodation is quite evidently not enough. So why should I or anyone else even bother trying? Simple answer: we shouldn't. Being unhappy about it is one thing--being outright rude is quite another.

[mamboqueen]

I'm actually not rude to smokers. I wish they'd quit for their own sake. I've seen someone die a long, painful death from smoking. It's heartbreaking to see. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. My father has emphysema now. All preventable.

I've only pointed out what I find rude....people who smoke and turn their head and discharge the smoke at me because they don't want to "sit" in it, and people who chuck their butts out the car window because they don't want to mess up their car (as if the smell alone doesn't do that).

[Peaches]

I'm actually not rude to smokers. I wish they'd quit for their own sake. I've seen someone die a long, painful death from smoking. It's heartbreaking to see. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. My father has emphysema now. All preventable.

I've only pointed out what I find rude....people who smoke and turn their head and discharge the smoke at me because they don't want to "sit" in it, and people who chuck their butts out the car window because they don't want to mess up their car (as if the smell alone doesn't do that).

MQ, I wasn't thinking about you when I wrote. I had other posts/posters in mind, as well as the what seems to be the prevailing attitude of non-smokers.

And, yeah, I've watched someone die a painful death from smoking. I know what I'm doing to myself. And I know it's preventable. But for whatever reason, I'm not ready to quit yet. I'm not physically addicted yet, luckily, but still not ready.

[mamboqueen]

Well, Peaches...I hope some day you're able to quit. I truly mean that.

[Peaches]

Well, Peaches...I hope some day you're able to quit. I truly mean that.

That makes 2 of us.

I've quit 2 or 3 times before, and lasted for a few months each time. They say it takes smokers an average of 7 times to try quitting before it "sticks"...

I think I feel another quit coming on in the next few months anyway--it's been a year.

[mamboqueen]

I smoked for about 2 years in my early 20's. One day I was driving and I dropped the cigarette and while almost driving into a tree, my rug started smouldering because it took me a few minutes to find the damned thing. That was it for me. Tree + fire = time to quit.

[Peaches]

Tree + fire = time to quit.

Now that's got to be one of the more interesting reasons for quitting that i've ever heard.

[mamboqueen]

I think I was ready....and got the signal. Hopefully you'll get yours, too ;)

[Peaches]

I think I was ready....and got the signal. Hopefully you'll get yours, too ;)


One of these days, (Alice), one of these days.

[mamboqueen]

bang, zoom....to the moon!

(think about how many people that is *lost* on!)

[Peaches]

The funny thing is, I actually don't know what it's from. I just grew up with my father saying it. I knew he was quoting something, but to this day I don't have a clue what it was.

[Joe]

LOL, I guess it was lost on Peaches, too. :)

It's "The Honeymooners."

[fascination]

MQ, I wasn't thinking about you when I wrote. I had other posts/posters in mind, as well as the what seems to be the prevailing attitude of non-smokers.

And, yeah, I've watched someone die a painful death from smoking. I know what I'm doing to myself. And I know it's preventable. But for whatever reason, I'm not ready to quit yet. I'm not physically addicted yet, luckily, but still not ready.I know how much you love your husband....I dont know if you have kids....but consider (very, very hard) the likelihood not just of the time you are taking off of your own life but the possibly decades that you may be deprieving them of having you and all of the significant events that you may not be there for...sometimes unselfish people like you who just can't quit for themselves actually can quit for people like their future children and grandchildren...just a thought... I wish you luck...as someone who has lost a parent far too young to lung cancer last month, I grieve every day what my mother is missing...you are such a sweet sensitive person Peaches, I really wish you good luck on this...it is an addiction... a STRONG one, and there is a point beyond which some folks just can't quit...and a point beyond which they aren't given a chance...and that point can come with little to no warning...at any age...and then it doesn't matter whether you are ready or not....hugs

[mamboqueen]

LOL, I guess it was lost on Peaches, too. :)

It's "The Honeymooners."


cr*p...I'm like Grandmamboqueen...ack!

[Merrylegs]

I second Fascination's sentiment and I'll elaborate on my point of view.

Yeah, I'm the first person to admit I'm hostile about smokers. I think it's absolutely one of the worst things you could do to yourself -- your family members, co-workers, friends, pets, etc. It's hard to believe how many people still smoke when the information about its dangers is everywhere.

My parents *were* (I say were because they're both dead) of a generation where smoking was considered a very normal thing to do. They didn't know any better at first and then they both tried to quit. My mother quit 3 years before she developed Myelo-Dysplastic Leukemia. This form of Leukemia used to be known as the smokers leukemia since it occurs as a result of exposure to benzene--found in cigarettes. The more particular details of her decline and death are still too upseting to me to repeat here.

I will not expose myself to ANY cigarette smoke EVER if I can possibly avoid it. I think that any exposure is harmful. Why should I casually pass by a group of people who are smoking when I don't want to breathe that crap into my lungs. Now, I'm not saying I walk by and give them grief, but I will hold my breath or cover my mouth if I can't hold my breath for tht long of a time.

Should I have to suffer or be uncomfortable because someone *has* to smoke? Should I have to breathe in second hand smoke? No, I shouldn't.

Smelling of cigarette smoke or smelling of curry are such very different things that they can't even be compared. Last time I checked no one ever died from long term eating of curry. You're pretty off base with that analogy, it doesn't compute at all.

As far as reasonable accomodations are concerned, how far should the world go to allow people to slowly kill themselves and, probably, those around them? Don't I have a right to reasonable accommodation? Why should someone else's bad habit infringe upon my health?

I take good care of my body, I don't eat junk food, exercise and eat as healthily as I can. Why should I let some smoker screw that up?

Sorry for the rant, but seriously the argument is so out of line.

One more thing: A beloved dance teacher from my college days is dying from emphyzema. She never smoked a day in her life but her husband did, and still does.

[fascination]

I feel your pain michelle...I also feel yours peaches...

[PasoDancer]

Smoking, and not realizing the repercussions it has on others is plain selfish and thoughtless.

Anyone who smokes around children should have their asses kicked. It's one thing to smoke around adults, but having children- that's like a "captive audience". Do you know that smoking even affects inner ear development in children? I always wondered why nearly everyone in my second grade class had to have tubes put in (not me, thanks... I had asthma from my mother in-utero smoking... everything...).

I don't like it. I don't begrudge people their right to eat, chew, drink, or inhale bad stuff.... just don't assume I enjoy it, too.

[Joe]

I dunno. There's a certain background risk from doing just about anything these days, including walking down the street. I don't know that the occasional whiff of tobacco smoke significantly increases this risk. However, it's still annoying because I have a sensitive schnoz.

[fascination]

I just want to clarify that while I can firsthand discuss the downside of smoking and its adverse effects upon others, and I don't appreciate selfish inconsiderate smokers any more than I appreciate selfish inconsiderate non-smokers...I can't fault people who struggle with addiction...as I would be hard pressed to make it through a day without my coffee or my wine....and I have many times stepped into the tanning bed knowing the risk I am taking and the repurcussions on my family, just as my husband does each time he pops another fannie mae buttercream or salami bite, given his family hx and his current health issues....admittedly these things are not the equivalent of second hand smoke, I am only saying that I can appreciate that we all comfort ourselves in different toxic ways...and only meant previously not to indict smokers but to mention that it is an addiction and to mention that sometimes we don't get a second chance to modify our lifestyles, smoking or otherwise...

having said that, exposure to cigarette smoke has had a markedly negative effect upon my health which I won't go into but it does make me ill even to this day when I allow myself too much exposure, and I cannot for the life of me imagine taking it up now that I dance, much as I used to have no problem with either the exposure or with smoking myself...now just the smell of it makes me nauseous and I have an allergic reaction to it as well...funny, the only time it DOESNT bother me is in a bar, b/c I expect it there and b/c I am usually a bit looped if I'm in a bar anyway....but I will be hoarse in the morning and sorry I went

[Peaches]

Fist things first…FWIW, coming from a smoker… Michelle and Fascination, I am very sorry for the loss of your parents. I hope that some day you will be able to find peace.

Michelle--

"Yeah, I'm the first person to admit I'm hostile about smokers. I think it's absolutely one of the worst things you could do to yourself -- your family members, co-workers, friends, pets, etc. It's hard to believe how many people still smoke when the information about its dangers is everywhere."

Your hostility accomplishes nothing other than to induce those on the receiving end to dig in their heels and tune you out. Strong opinions are one thing, activism is one thing, and both are good. But hostility is pointless.

Furthermore, as Fascination pointed out, everyone engages in risky, self destructive behavior. And all risky, self-destructive behavior has an impact on those around us. Most everyone knows of the risks, and most everyone does those things anyway. Smoking isn’t any different. Many, if not most, decisions that people make are not based on rational self-interest.



"Smelling of cigarette smoke or smelling of curry are such very different things that they can't even be compared. Last time I checked no one ever died from long term eating of curry. You're pretty off base with that analogy, it doesn't compute at all."

The idea of anyone dying from long-term curry exposure is completely preposterous, obviously. The seriousness of the implications of one smelling like curry versus smelling of smoke are, of course, completely different. However, the point I was making had nothing to do with the degree of lethality of the smell-producing habit. Instead, I was making a point regarding others’ actions in response to an offensive smell.

To that end, I seriously doubt that exposure to someone smelling of smoke will increase the risk of cancer. So, at that point, we’re no longer talking health implications—we’re talking about nothing more than an unpleasant smell. It’s my point that spraying a Mr. or Ms. Stanky with hideous perfume is inexcusable under any circumstance, regardless of what the offensive odour actually is.




"Should I have to suffer or be uncomfortable because someone *has* to smoke? Should I have to breathe in second hand smoke? No, I shouldn't.

As far as reasonable accommodations are concerned, how far should the world go to allow people to slowly kill themselves and, probably, those around them? Don't I have a right to reasonable accommodation? Why should someone else's bad habit infringe upon my health?

I take good care of my body, I don't eat junk food, exercise and eat as healthily as I can. Why should I let some smoker screw that up?"

I absolutely will talk about reasonable accommodations. Yes, you’re entitled to reasonable accommodation as much as me, and I think that balance has been found in a lot of places. Smoking is generally prohibited indoors. More and more places are moving to ban smoking in all bars and restaurants, as well. Some places go so far as to mandate that outdoor smoking be a reasonable distance from doors. I’d like to see legislation tackle the issue of underage exposure to secondhand smoke, but I don’t see a good way to go about it.

So, at this point, I fail to see how you are being made to suffer. It’s not allowed in most workplaces, or most indoor buildings, you can choose where you eat and go drinking. At some point you have to accept or find your own way of dealing with the little bit you’ll get walking down the sidewalk. I ask again, short of the utopia of having absolutely no smoking in the world, what else do you want?

…and don’t even go down the road of allowing people to slowly kill themselves…we, as a world, are perfectly happy to allow that to happen…



"Sorry for the rant, but seriously the argument is so out of line."

No apology necessary. But out-of-line-ness is subjective, and things look vastly different from my angle.

[Peaches]

Smoking, and not realizing the repercussions it has on others is plain selfish and thoughtless.

Anyone who smokes around children should have their asses kicked. It's one thing to smoke around adults, but having children- that's like a "captive audience". Do you know that smoking even affects inner ear development in children? I always wondered why nearly everyone in my second grade class had to have tubes put in (not me, thanks... I had asthma from my mother in-utero smoking... everything...).

I don't like it. I don't begrudge people their right to eat, chew, drink, or inhale bad stuff.... just don't assume I enjoy it, too.


Smoking that is carried out in a manner which is selfish and thoughtless is, I agree, selfish and thoughtless. Such as smoking around non-smokers, children in particular. But I take umbrage with the idea that smoking is, in and of itself, necessarily selfish and thoughtless, and that smokers are, by definition, selfish and thoughtless. That’s painting with a rather wide brush, don’t you think?

Like I said in a different post, I’d love to see legislation tackling the issue of smoking around kids. As to smoking while pregnant, I don’t know how I feel about it because of the slippery slope of the legal ramifications. I’d be curious to see how the law treats drinking while pregnant…

[Peaches]

I just want to clarify that while I can firsthand discuss the downside of smoking and its adverse effects upon others, and I don't appreciate selfish inconsiderate smokers any more than I appreciate selfish inconsiderate non-smokers...I can't fault people who struggle with addiction...as I would be hard pressed to make it through a day without my coffee or my wine....and I have many times stepped into the tanning bed knowing the risk I am taking and the repurcussions on my family, just as my husband does each time he pops another fannie mae buttercream or salami bite, given his family hx and his current health issues....admittedly these things are not the equivalent of second hand smoke, I am only saying that I can appreciate that we all comfort ourselves in different toxic ways...and only meant previously not to indict smokers but to mention that it is an addiction and to mention that sometimes we don't get a second chance to modify our lifestyles, smoking or otherwise...

having said that, exposure to cigarette smoke has had a markedly negative effect upon my health which I won't go into but it does make me ill even to this day when I allow myself too much exposure, and I cannot for the life of me imagine taking it up now that I dance, much as I used to have no problem with either the exposure or with smoking myself...now just the smell of it makes me nauseous and I have an allergic reaction to it as well...funny, the only time it DOESNT bother me is in a bar, b/c I expect it there and b/c I am usually a bit looped if I'm in a bar anyway....but I will be hoarse in the morning and sorry I went


Actually, I used to be the same way. I evening spent in a bar or club would make me nauseous after a bit.

I appreciate your understanding and compassion, that much more so since you’ve recently lost your mother. Although, I'll be the first to admit it's undeserved. I know the risks, I chose to begin smoking, and I choose now to continue smoking.

As I’ve said before, I’m truly sorry for your loss. FWIW, as a smoker.

[Whirling Dervish]

Interesting idea, tackling legislation on smoking parents. I read once where someone was trying to make it a punishable child abuse offense to have an obese child if it wasn't for a medical reason (like a metabolic disorder).

What do you guys think about that?

[tanya_the_dancer]

Without reading the whole topic, could it be that percentage of smokers among dancers is higher because a lot of them come from Easter Europe, where smoking rates are something like 75% of adult population, if not more?

[Whirling Dervish]

Yet I have to say I have never seen a ballet dancer from Eastern Europe who smokes.

Actually, I've never seen a ballet dancer smoke. Hmm. Maybe someone else has.

[tanya_the_dancer]

Yet I have to say I have never seen a ballet dancer from Eastern Europe who smokes.

Actually, I've never seen a ballet dancer smoke. Hmm. Maybe someone else has.
I don't know any ballet dancers personally. So can't comment on that. But I do know that smoking rate in Russia is quite high (as non-smokers, my family was actually a bit of exception there), so as a consequence of that smoking rate is higher among immigrants from Russia compared to the rest of population.

Smoking rates are higher in Europe in general, because there was none of these anti-smoking campaigns there, which we have in U.S. I wonder what the current trend is, but last time we were in Europe, it was kinda hard to have lunch or dinner without having to smell the smoke. Not to mention all the cigarette butts on the ground (I guess trashcans were only for American tourists).

[hepcat]

Your hostility accomplishes nothing other than to induce those on the receiving end to dig in their heels and tune you out. Strong opinions are one thing, activism is one thing, and both are good. But hostility is pointless.

I had started to draft this exact same response, almost verbatim. At first I was wondering in fact if you were quoting me, but then I rememberred I'd gotten distracted and hadn't actually posted it. :lol:

However, the point I was making had nothing to do with the degree of lethality of the smell-producing habit. Instead, I was making a point regarding others’ actions in response to an offensive smell.

To that end, I seriously doubt that exposure to someone smelling of smoke will increase the risk of cancer. So, at that point, we’re no longer talking health implications—we’re talking about nothing more than an unpleasant smell.

I don't think you're going to get very far with this argument unfortunately. The category of "health nut" is more prodigious these days. If people are cutting out fast food, taking vitamin supplements, eating organic foods, getting acupuncture, and the like, they're obviously not willing to compromise their health in the smallest degree. Who's to say your exposure to smoke isn't cumulative and that every little bit isn't damaging. All scientific data shows smoke is harmful and there's no qualification about the amount of exposure.

It’s my point that spraying a Mr. or Ms. Stanky with hideous perfume is inexcusable under any circumstance, regardless of what the offensive odour actually is.

I'll agree with that, although I'll admit I enjoy a certain ornery satisfaction from hearing about it (sorry to say). :o

So, at this point, I fail to see how you are being made to suffer. It’s not allowed in most workplaces, or most indoor buildings, you can choose where you eat and go drinking. At some point you have to accept or find your own way of dealing with the little bit you’ll get walking down the sidewalk. I ask again, short of the utopia of having absolutely no smoking in the world, what else do you want?

…and don’t even go down the road of allowing people to slowly kill themselves…we, as a world, are perfectly happy to allow that to happen…

I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting a utopia. There is a place for strong opinions. They serve to shock people into acting on an issue, even if it is a tempered response. That's why I think there's a place for people like Rush Limbaugh (sp?) and Dr. Laura. I may disagree vehemently with them, but if no one spoke out passionately, who would ever be swayed to consider an issue if everything was put in terms of compromise & moderation. It's just not as interesting. People are attracted to controversy. They get fixated on accidents and disasters. That's the only way to grab a lot of people's attention. So I don't think we should question whether or not someone should be making an unattainable stance on an issue. That's an attempt at censorship. Just argue the other side if that's what you believe.

No apology necessary. But out-of-line-ness is subjective, and things look vastly different from my angle.

True. Everything's relative.

[hepcat]

Interesting idea, tackling legislation on smoking parents. I read once where someone was trying to make it a punishable child abuse offense to have an obese child if it wasn't for a medical reason (like a metabolic disorder).

What do you guys think about that?

It's really hard to prove the cause of obesity. There was a case of an obese child who was taken away from his parents in Albuquerque even though the parents claimed to have him on a diet and seeing a physician. I seem to remember he was returned, but I'm not 100% sure about that. Smoking on the other hand is another issue. If parents smoke around a child, it's 100% provable and has undeniable negative impact. I think it's completely appropriate to prosecute on the basis of child abuse. I can't even begin to imagine a compromise. I can't see a way where a parent can smoke and not expose the child to it. It's the same thing as drinking or being on drugs when pregnant. It's inexcusable IMO.

[hepcat]

Sub-topic: You know, they say that a benefit of smoking is it keeps you thin. :lol: No, it keeps you gaunt. Yes, smokers are thin, but it's not an attractive thin. They may look good when they're young, but after some time, their cheeks are sunken, their ribs and hip bones protrude. Their skin has an aged look (as that of a decrepit old person). Their hair is typically drab. The skin around their eyes is dark. They're not attractive at all. They honestly look as if they've got one foot in the grave. Perhaps they don't notice it because the change is gradual. Then maybe once they do notice it, they take another drag to forget about it.

[fascination]

I appreciate your understanding and compassion, that much more so since you’ve recently lost your mother. Although, I'll be the first to admit it's undeserved. I know the risks, I chose to begin smoking, and I choose now to continue smoking.

As I’ve said before, I’m truly sorry for your loss. FWIW, as a smoker.EVERYONE deserves compassion, and at least an attempt at understanding IMO...when I conquer all my addictions and compulsions and behaviors that are harmful to myself and others, I'll let you know...while many of us are passionate about this issue for very justifiable reasons, and while none of us should be unduly subjected to other's actions that are harmful to us, you were simply honest and forthright, and getting by...just like the rest of us...I'm sure I have hurt as many people in the past week as you have...hug...having said all that, think seriously about the dice you roll, and I will too...nother hug

[Whirling Dervish]

...think seriously about the dice you roll, and I will too...nother hug

Okay, we could probably use a group hug, yeah? (Someone should make a smilie for hugs.) Aside from our addictions we all make sacrifices of various kinds daily, too.

I had to think seriously about the dice recently myself. I passed on buying the motorcycle. Sigh. :cool:

[fascination]

except some people aren't huggers...and that's okay too...lol...but for all those interested...consider yourself hugged

[hepcat]

except some people aren't huggers...and that's okay too...lol...but for all those interested...consider yourself hugged

*squirm* *squirm* *push* *gasp*. "I can't breathe mom!"

I remember those days! Ah, but I like being hugged now! I even tease my sister for giving "grandma hugs". I suppose it's dancing that has changed my stance on hugging.

-hepcat

[Peaches]

Hepcat--

"I don't think you're going to get very far with this argument unfortunately. The category of "health nut" is more prodigious these days. If people are cutting out fast food, taking vitamin supplements, eating organic foods, getting acupuncture, and the like, they're obviously not willing to compromise their health in the smallest degree. Who's to say your exposure to smoke isn't cumulative and that every little bit isn't damaging. All scientific data shows smoke is harmful and there's no qualification about the amount of exposure."

I’m sure the effects of even very small amounts are cumulative. So are the effects of broccoli and coffee which, last I knew, were also carcinogenic. That point aside, however, the fact of the matter is that unless you live in a bubble you’re going to have to accept some modicum of risk. Living in/around/with others, which everyone does, must involve compromise on all ends. That’s just the reality.



"I'll agree with that, although I'll admit I enjoy a certain ornery satisfaction from hearing about it (sorry to say)."

He he…I understand completely. I’ve got certain revenge fantasies of my own regarding what I feel to be obnoxious behaviour in which I indulge from time to time! Most of mine, though, revolve around either other drivers or my in-laws!



"I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting a utopia."

I agree completely. Just because we’ll never achieve perfection—in anything—is not an excuse to throw up our hands and quit trying. But, I think we should be mindful of reality and should keep in mind that utopia will never be achieved, and so is best not to trample to much on others in our pursuit.


"There is a place for strong opinions. They serve to shock people into acting on an issue, even if it is a tempered response. That's why I think there's a place for people like Rush Limbaugh (sp?) and Dr. Laura. I may disagree vehemently with them, but if no one spoke out passionately, who would ever be swayed to consider an issue if everything was put in terms of compromise & moderation. It's just not as interesting. People are attracted to controversy. They get fixated on accidents and disasters. That's the only way to grab a lot of people's attention. So I don't think we should question whether or not someone should be making an unattainable stance on an issue. That's an attempt at censorship. Just argue the other side if that's what you believe."

Hmmm…not so sure I completely agree. Yes, those with strong opinions and the courage to speak passionately about them are rare and valuable. And yes, they do serve to shock people into action. Yay, action! And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with someone taking an unreasonable stance on something—everyone’s entitled to their opinion, and even when the opinion makes me sick I’d defend their right to express it.

I just think that those who whip others into action via passionate, extreme arguments are detrimental to progress. I REALLY don’t like all-or-nothing ways of going about things, and feel that we, as a society, need to remember and bring back the art of compromise and moderation. No, it’s not sexy the way that controversy is sexy. But it’s the way to get ahead, because getting people all riled up and dug into their own stance doesn’t get anyone anywhere. Besides which, as time goes on attitudes change and issues can be revisited and a new compromises can be had. I’d rather see incremental change resulting from compromise than nothing at all because no one is willing to budge from their pursuit of the idea.

And now we’re right back to were we started with hostility! Lol.

[Peaches]

It's really hard to prove the cause of obesity. There was a case of an obese child who was taken away from his parents in Albuquerque even though the parents claimed to have him on a diet and seeing a physician. I seem to remember he was returned, but I'm not 100% sure about that. Smoking on the other hand is another issue. If parents smoke around a child, it's 100% provable and has undeniable negative impact. I think it's completely appropriate to prosecute on the basis of child abuse. I can't even begin to imagine a compromise. I can't see a way where a parent can smoke and not expose the child to it. It's the same thing as drinking or being on drugs when pregnant. It's inexcusable IMO.


I absolutely agree that parents exposing children to second-hand smoke is inexcusable. Like I said, I’d love to see some sort of legislation. Some aspects, though, are easier than others—I’d like to see children under 18 banned from smoking sections/bars/restaurants. I’d like to see parents smoking in cars with children present dealt with. That’s fairly simple.

The difficult part, IMHO, is when you start getting into where to draw the line. I’d like to see smoking inside a private residence in the presence of non-smokers (those under 18 should be automatically classified as such) be made illegal, but to me it runs into the problem of enforcement, prioritization of scarce resources, and the social/financial consequences. I don’t think I’d classify it as abuse, particularly since the ramifications of that kind of terminology could be so far reaching.

Smoking while the family is in the backyard? Legislating against that makes me nervous. Likewise with smoking while pregnant. Abhorrent, but the legal ramifications—which I absolutely won’t go into on this forum—scare me greatly. Greater education seems to be a reasonable key to all of it.

[hepcat]

I’m sure the effects of even very small amounts are cumulative. So are the effects of broccoli and coffee which, last I knew, were also carcinogenic. That point aside, however, the fact of the matter is that unless you live in a bubble you’re going to have to accept some modicum of risk. Living in/around/with others, which everyone does, must involve compromise on all ends. That’s just the reality.

There's a fundamental difference however in your example. I choose to ingest broccoli and coffee whereas I sometimes don't have a choice to inhale others' smoke.

Yes, those with strong opinions and the courage to speak passionately about them are rare and valuable. And yes, they do serve to shock people into action. Yay, action! And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with someone taking an unreasonable stance on something—everyone’s entitled to their opinion, and even when the opinion makes me sick I’d defend their right to express it.

I just think that those who whip others into action via passionate, extreme arguments are detrimental to progress.

I'll agree if they're directed at an individual. It's an affront and provokes an opposing response despite the validity of the argument. However, where I think such a tact is effective is when it's spoken in general terms to no one in particular. Although making an example of someone, while it could negatively affect that person, it may get others thinking. However it could also backfire. I agree that moderation and compromise are the sought after result, but it may be arguable that you may not get there in a timely fashion without passionate debates. I don't like absolutes and black and white either, but I see a place for those who proffer those views.

-hepcat

[Peaches]

There's a fundamental difference however in your example. I choose to ingest broccoli and coffee whereas I sometimes don't have a choice to inhale others' smoke.


Hmmm…I seem to be having a hard time communicating my points today…

Of course there’s that fundamental difference. I mentioned coffee and broccoli only as examples of other substances which are carcinogenic to a very small degree (parallel to smells on a smokers clothing or smoke wafting on the breeze). I’ve just always found it kind of amusing that those 2 substances are carcinogenic.

But you’re right, there is a difference. My main point was just that compromise is only possible up to a certain point, where acceptance of risk has to take over.




I'll agree if they're directed at an individual. It's an affront and provokes an opposing response despite the validity of the argument. However, where I think such a tact is effective is when it's spoken in general terms to no one in particular. Although making an example of someone, while it could negatively affect that person, it may get others thinking. However it could also backfire. I agree that moderation and compromise are the sought after result, but it may be arguable that you may not get there in a timely fashion without passionate debates. I don't like absolutes and black and white either, but I see a place for those who proffer those views.


I definitely think there’s a place for those people, and I’ll agree that timeliness in making progress can be compromised. I guess maybe I have a different arguing style—abandon inflammatory rhetoric, identify and disclose what things you’re unwilling to compromise on (which will determine if further negotiation is even possible), identify goals which can be agreed upon, and find ways to get to that goal. So, while passionate debate is a good thing to get people thinking, I find it untenable when applied to real world situations.

Or, perhaps I should say that passionate is good; extremism is counterproductive. IMHO.

[Merrylegs]

I am so confused. Since when is broccoli a carcinogen? I've been skimming this thread today so I may have missed something vital........

BTW, I used the word hostile to describe my emotions but perhaps a better word would be passionate, or anxious about.

When you watch your mom die it tends to piss you off a lot.

[PasoDancer]

Another temp hijack:
Huggers.

I grew up in a family essentially phobic of hugging one another, and I think it "stunted" my hugginess. Does anyone else like hugs, but because of the way they were brought up, feel odd about it, if that makes sense?

Well, cyber hugs aren't so hard, so here's my first cyber hug to anyone and everyone, Lol.

[Peaches]

Hmmm…I seem to remember something from one of my college classes listing broccoli as a carcinogen. Perhaps I am wrong—can’t find reference on the ‘net. Regular coffee though (caffeine) is definitely carcinogenic. So, scratch the broccoli, keep the coffee. My mistake, all apologies.


As for hugs, I grew up with lots of them. Kisses too—I grew up greeting family, no matter how extended, with a hug and 1 if not 2 kisses.

For that reason, I think, I had absolutely no problem in Argentina when I was greeted that way, although some people clearly expected me to be taken aback. My SIL was very uncomfortable, by comparison. I swear, I’ve never been hugged and kissed by so many men in so short a period of time as when I was sitting down at a milonga in BsAs, and friends were coming by to chat with my host! It translates, too, to the Latino gentlemen in my AT scene.

Not so sure about cyber-hugs though, don’t know why.

[mamboqueen]

Actually, I have always heard that broccoli is an anti-carcinogen.

http://www.thehealthierlife.co.uk/article/2903/broccoli-cancer.html


Hmmm..after reading that I see they say it's good for slowing down dementia. Guess I'll have to order a double serving next time around!

[tanya_the_dancer]

Another temp hijack:
Huggers.

I grew up in a family essentially phobic of hugging one another, and I think it "stunted" my hugginess. Does anyone else like hugs, but because of the way they were brought up, feel odd about it, if that makes sense?

Well, cyber hugs aren't so hard, so here's my first cyber hug to anyone and everyone, Lol.
I became more comfortable about hugs after I've been dancing for a while. I was not much of a hugger before that.

[hepcat]

Hmmm…I seem to be having a hard time communicating my points today…
[snip]
But you’re right, there is a difference. My main point was just that compromise is only possible up to a certain point, where acceptance of risk has to take over.

I got the point. You've been very articulate. I just think the analogy detracts from it. You don't have to compromise your health with coffee or other ingested carcinogens. You can easily choose not to be exposed to that sort of carcinogen. You can compromise your desire to eat such things, but that's different from compromising your health. You have a choice and that's the key reason why I'm harping on this issue. You sometimes don't have that choice when it comes to breathing. You can choose not to drink when coffee is presented to you, but you can't choose not to inhale when smoke is present. With ingestibles, there's no reasonable point at which an acceptance of risk takes over. There's always alternatives.

Sure you can select where you live, but you can't prevent a smoker from moving in next to you the next day. (Honestly, I think there should be zoning laws for such things, especially with apartments, which desingate non-smoking residential areas.)

Perhaps a better analogy exists which better exhibits your point. I just don't think risk from food versus risk from smoke are comparable when talking about choice and health.

[SPratt74]

I've had friends that have tried to quit smoking, and it has been painful watching them go through the process of trying to break the addiction. :(

My sister is trying to quit. She is hard to put up with, and I told everyone about how emotional she is just to warn them in advance before they called her. I don't know if she has actually quit or not, but my goodness it is like don't talk to me until you finally are off the stuff lol.

[fascination]

When you watch your mom die it tends to piss you off a lot.yep...:rolleyes:

[fascination]

Another temp hijack:
Huggers.

I grew up in a family essentially phobic of hugging one another, and I think it "stunted" my hugginess. Does anyone else like hugs, but because of the way they were brought up, feel odd about it, if that makes sense?

Well, cyber hugs aren't so hard, so here's my first cyber hug to anyone and everyone, Lol.I was raised in an anti hugging domain...and dh brought me around....now I will hug anyone and everyone provided they have showered at least once that week...I need 'em

[ssjss]

Another temp hijack:
Huggers.

I grew up in a family essentially phobic of hugging one another, and I think it "stunted" my hugginess. Does anyone else like hugs, but because of the way they were brought up, feel odd about it, if that makes sense?

Well, cyber hugs aren't so hard, so here's my first cyber hug to anyone and everyone, Lol. My grandfather was nicked named papa bear cuz of all the hugs we would give. I lovem, wish people would do it more.

[cornutt]

I was raised in an anti hugging domain...and dh brought me around....now I will hug anyone and everyone provided they have showered at least once that week...I need 'em

I was raised in the South. I have no problem with hugs. ;)

[fascination]

hugs are more prevalent(sp?) in the south?...packing bags quickly

[mamboqueen]

I have to say, of all the places I've traveled in the US, southerners have been, by FAR, the most warmest and polite people I've met. Being the cynical Joisey girl, I was really taken aback and wondering what these people wanted from me.

[fascination]

I love the South...and not just b/c of Cornutt...lol...I have always found the treatment there to be extremely friendly...and since I am from the midwest rather than the east, well, I guess I'm just not that cynical yet....gotta say our first trip out east was, er, an eye-opener regarding ...hmmm how do I say it, congeniality?

[mamboqueen]

:raisebro: and then there's the food....

[SPratt74]

I love the South...and not just b/c of Cornutt...lol...I have always found the treatment there to be extremely friendly...and since I am from the midwest rather than the east, well, I guess I'm just not that cynical yet....gotta say our first trip out east was, er, an eye-opener regarding ...hmmm how do I say it, congeniality?

Hey I'm from the south! Grrr!!! :mad:

I know what you mean! When my mom moved to Philly, it was such an eye opener. I saw my first drug deal taking place lol (and we weren't even supposed to be in that part of town to begin with, but someone got us lost lol), it was the first time that I had seen prostitutes (I know that we have them here of course, but these girls were right up next to your car, the girls here you don't see out in the streets they are more hidden in other words, but this is the Bible Belt lol) the people aren't the nicest people in the world (especially the gangs and you know who they are), and they don't care about their streets at all. It was so dirty! I was like how do people live like this? Then I realized that when I got home I was so thankful to be home and I was proud of my city for the way it was. It takes work to have a clean city. Not that everything is a ok all of the time, but still... it's nice to know that people take pride in this town.

[fascination]

well now...I don't want to get all regionalist...is that a word?...the east and big cities elsewhere have their major upsides too......in fact I would prefer to live there than out here in BFE anyday....

[It's Wonderful]

Another temp hijack:
Huggers.

I grew up in a family essentially phobic of hugging one another, and I think it "stunted" my hugginess. Does anyone else like hugs, but because of the way they were brought up, feel odd about it, if that makes sense?

I don't think my family was especially hug oriented or phobic, it was just a natural thing to do to show support or affection, or greet a friend when it had been a while since seeing each other. Personally, I love hugs and wish more of my friends were "hugs as greetings" people, but that's not the case, so I must make do with what I got :)

[fascination]

so hug the huggers twice as much and ask the non-huggers if they mind getting them...sometimes after enough if them, one becomes a convert ...even a pro...

[fascination]

back to this smoking thing...yeah I think there are some cultural/environmental aspects of it...we have a very health conscious gentleman from Russia at our studio ...he is a vegan...goes on fasts, goes to the gym regularly ...has all sorts of discipline... but will tell you if you ask that he came up in an environment where everyone smoked and now just can't quit...

[SPratt74]

back to this smoking thing...yeah I think there are some cultural/environmental aspects of it...we have a very health conscious gentleman from Russia at our studio ...he is a vegan...goes on fasts, goes to the gym regularly ...has all sorts of discipline... but will tell you if you ask that he came up in an environment where everyone smoked and now just can't quit...

That's interesting, because my mom smoked around my oldest sister (and not the rest of us), and my oldest sister has no problem being by the smell of smoke. However, I can't stand it. My eyes get watery and you name it. I'm glad that I never smoked though. I'm sure it's pretty addictive once you start, or at least that's what my sister would say. ;)

[SuzieQ]

Yet I have to say I have never seen a ballet dancer from Eastern Europe who smokes.

Actually, I've never seen a ballet dancer smoke. Hmm. Maybe someone else has.

I know a former ballet dancer from Russia (now teaches ballroom.) He says all of his fellow dance students, and their teachers, smoked, and from a young age. He quit a couple of years ago, shortly after coming to this country. (And actually started again while preparing for a ballet performance.)

[tanya_the_dancer]

back to this smoking thing...yeah I think there are some cultural/environmental aspects of it...we have a very health conscious gentleman from Russia at our studio ...he is a vegan...goes on fasts, goes to the gym regularly ...has all sorts of discipline... but will tell you if you ask that he came up in an environment where everyone smoked and now just can't quit...
Yes, that's very typical.

[pygmalion]

Yet I have to say I have never seen a ballet dancer from Eastern Europe who smokes.

Actually, I've never seen a ballet dancer smoke. Hmm. Maybe someone else has.

I had a former dance teacher who started in ballet and who moved on to musical theater then ballroom. To hear him tell it, everybody smoked. Everybody. Something to do with both handling nerves and staying thin enough for ballet. :?

[pygmalion]

cr*p...I'm like Grandmamboqueen...ack!


Sorry I've come to this conversation very late but a couple things.

One. Grandmambo? Not!!! The Honeymooners is one seminal piece of TV material that has shaped American culture... Everything from the show itself to the Flintstones cartoon (a thinly disguised imitation) to sitcoms today that borrow Honeymooners premises for their shows. End of story. If somebody doesn't know bang-zoom (no offense, Peaches) they have only to google and find it.

Two. I grew up in a Fundamentalist, reformed household, from a religious perspective. So what I think about smoking is strongly shaped by that experience, but not in the way you may think.

If people smoke, chances are they know the risks as well as, if not better than, we non-smokers do. Some of them want to quit and aren't ready. Some of them don't care. Some of them actively want to smoke. Leave them the he** alone. They're going to do what they want to do, period. And if/when they want to quit, they will.

@Peaches. No. There's nothing that smokers can do that will make some non-smokers happy. It sucks, but that's how it is. We're sharing the air, and smoking is ... pervasive. So, having made the decision not to smoke, it's kinda hard for me to be okay with people around me filling the air with cigarette smoke, especially given the risks of second-hand smoke.

However, speaking for me only ... if you want to smoke, smoke. Away from me, yes. But smoke, if you want. It's your right and your decision, as an adult human being. Smoke to your heart's content. You'll hear no guilt or moralizing from me. You know what you're doing and know what you want. So smoke. If you find it offensive that I avoid walking through the smoker's area outside the entrance at work or that I change lanes, so as not to get smoke in my AC, I'm sorry. You choose to smoke. I choose to be smoke-free. My way doesn't impinge on your lifestyle. But, unless you're extraordinarily considerate, your lifestyle can impinge on mine. That's the difference, IMO.

But yeah. I have a lot of empathy for smokers in the US, especially since workplace rules changed several years back and big companies clamped down on workplace smoking. It must feel like being part of an endangered species. :?

[Peaches]

If somebody doesn't know bang-zoom (no offense, Peaches) they have only to google and find it.

Oh yeah, of course. I've just never really cared enough to find out where it's coming from. To me, it's just a "my dad" thing.


If people smoke, chances are they know the risks as well as, if not better than, we non-smokers do. Some of them want to quit and aren't ready. Some of them don't care. Some of them actively want to smoke. Leave them the he** alone. They're going to do what they want to do, period. And if/when they want to quit, they will.

Yup, yup, yup. We know what we're doing, and we all have our reasons. None of them are really good, and we all justify it to ourselves in different ways. But, yeah...we know all the risks (who in this day and age doesn't?)...and no amount of preaching to us is going to make a differece. Being ready and willing to quit is something we've got to do for ourselves.


@Peaches. No. There's nothing that smokers can do that will make some non-smokers happy. It sucks, but that's how it is. We're sharing the air, and smoking is ... pervasive. So, having made the decision not to smoke, it's kinda hard for me to be okay with people around me filling the air with cigarette smoke, especially given the risks of second-hand smoke.

If you find it offensive that I avoid walking through the smoker's area outside the entrance at work or that I change lanes, so as not to get smoke in my AC, I'm sorry. But, unless you're extraordinarily considerate, your lifestyle can impinge on mine. That's the difference, IMO.

I understand the shared air and lifestyle-impinging thing, I really do. I guess when I originally asked the question it was more frustrated/rhetorical than anything. I take absolutely no offense at someone walking a wide berth around me if I smoke. Changing lanes I'd never notice. None of that bothers me. Personally, I deliberately stay far away from entrances when I smoke, because I know it's not fair to others. When DH and I smoke at home, we check to see if our neighbors are on their back deck--in which case we smoke out front--to not annoy them (we live in a town house).

I just get frustrated when I know I'm trying to be as considerate as possible, and keep things away from others as much as possible, and still get slammed for what I can't control. Like when I stand a GOOD ways away from the entrance at work, and there is an equally convenient sidewalk which is plenty far away from me, and yet people walk right by me and get upset. It's happened. And I just want to say, "I've done all I can to keep this away from you...you have perfectly comparable options for getting where you're going...you knew I was standing here...there's nothing else I can do to keep you safe...you OPTED to walk by me...so don't take it out on me."



But yeah. I have a lot of empathy for smokers in the US, especially since workplace rules changed several years back and big companies clamped down on workplace smoking. It must feel like being part of an endangered species. :?

Hmmm...not sure about the workplace rules thing. I don't think smoking should ever be allowed inside a public establishment...bar, restaurant, or otherwise. It kind of sucks for me when I'd like to kick back with the girls with a nice margarita, swapping girlie-stories, and chain smoking all night long. But hey, it's not fair to the people who work there.

I don't mind the rule changes at all...I just dislike the hostility and intolerance and the preaching. I think the endangered species is a good thing...I don't want to see more people smoking...especially kids younger than me. I want to see it die out, even though I know it never will.

I think "leper" is a more apt term for how I feel--completely ostracised and rejected. Not that I don't understand it, to a point, I just don't like it. But, hey, I've made my choices.

[pygmalion]

Yeah. Being a smoker's gotta be hard, these days. :? :(

[salsabor]

I believe that smoking is a personal choice, it has nothing to do to whether you dance or not....

[Jeepster]

I would think that smoking wouldnt be so smart if you dance..

[tangotime]

Surely a blanket statement ??

[fascination]

maybe not...maybe just a statement about one of many health choices that wouldn't be best for a high level competitor...however, it is certainly on ly one of many possibilities...but one can make the blanket statement that it isn't good for anyone...but neither are many other things

[ssjss]

I just get frustrated when I know I'm trying to be as considerate as possible, and keep things away from others as much as possible, and still get slammed for what I can't control. Like when I stand a GOOD ways away from the entrance at work, and there is an equally convenient sidewalk which is plenty far away from me, and yet people walk right by me and get upset. It's happened. And I just want to say, "I've done all I can to keep this away from you...you have perfectly comparable options for getting where you're going...you knew I was standing here...there's nothing else I can do to keep you safe...you OPTED to walk by me...so don't take it out on me." Those are the same people that vacation in Spain and find out everybody smokes every where. Some times thier waiter may have a cig in there mouth while bringing you your food. The looks one thier faces and comments are
priceless.

[Bradamant]

Ah. yes, smoking is the root of all evil.
:rolleyes:
I won't get into it all more than to say I, as both a woman who lost her father to lung cancer when I was a teenager and an ex-smoker myself, am appalled that this culture has taken the easy way out when it comes to harping on smoking. Our air quality is horrific - and it isn't caused by smokers. Lets rake in the taxes and verbally slap around the smokers. A med journal article recently published a study about the high rates of emphysema in a non-smoking population and how that didn't fit with their expected findings. Lets deny medical care to people who eat at fast food joints - it's just wasted money. Anybody who gets a speeding ticket should be jailed for the threat to public safety. People with an IQ below a certain scientifically calculated cutoff should be euthenized due to their inability to take care of themselves as the state sees fit. (I know I'm being hyperbolic, but in reading more and more about the legislation in this country and others meant to "protect us" I'm getting more and more frightened. Hear about the "Medical Futility" law in Texas? I just found out about it and almost threw-up.)
Perfumes send me into anaphylactic shock and laryngeal striter (life-threatening) but what can I do? I just stay away from it all as much as possible. I do get a kick out of it when walking perfume bottles complain of migraines, though. Duh.
I've personally seen alcohol absolutely destroy more lives than cigarettes but drinking is still considered cultured (wine), sexy (mixed drinks), manly-in-a-charming-boy-sort-of-way (beer.) GAG me. I suppose we all focus our righteous indignation where we wish. There's plenty of evil in the world that we can all focus on different issues, as we should. I personally think there are plenty of things that are truly and unambiguously evil in a way that smoking isn't, so I prefer to focus myself over yonder on those . . .
Whatever. End of my presonally whiney rant.
For you smokers, I wanted to pass on what worked for me when I quit. First time I quit I did pretty well for three months until I got a wicked case of adult chickenpox ("Give me a damn cigarette!"), second time I quit was half-hearted and absolute torture for two weeks. Third time was easy as pie - I psychologically prepared for several months, stocked up on nicotine gum, and had my last cigarette on the way into the airport. I went to australia for three weeks - heavy on scuba diving, rainforest hikes, playing with animals at the zoo, holding koalas, wombats, even snakes (I have a terror of snakes so I made myself do it) and Voila! I was a non-smoker when I got back. Didn't even bother me to be around smokers. I had researched the issue and saw that for whatever reason, women need to use nicotine replacement longer than men to be successful. I've gone a little overboard - I've been chewing for 3 years, but in August I'm going on another trip (3 weeks in Belize with lots of scuba diving, rainforest hikes, visiting mayan ruins and tracking down animals to oooh over - I see a pattern here) when I'll give up the gum.
So, I can say a long, very active, very fun, and very relaxing trip works wonders when you're ready to give up the cigs.
Good luck!

[SuzieQ]

I think Don Imus (radio show host) said he's been chewing Nicotine gum for 17 years---

[saludas]

This comment was overheard at a recent meeting I attended. During a break, a management person remarked that smokers were better employees - or rather, better-to-control employees.

He said that smokers exhibited such weakness (with the addictive personality and the obvious result of 'defiantly' taking up a habit that is a known health risk) that they tend to be more submissive and easier to keep 'in check' than people who are more health concsious and stronger personalities. Salary, work hours, etc. are all easier to control with the smoker.

The comment was overheard, and was off the record (for obvious reasons) but is very telling nonetheless.

[Bradamant]

This comment was overheard at a recent meeting I attended. During a break, a management person remarked that smokers were better employees - or rather, better-to-control employees.


Heh. My boss wouldn't agree. Of course I'm Irish - I think that says it all.

Although, wouldn't all the sniveling earthy crunchy types who follow the latest fad in health be the more docile workers than those same people who buck the overwhelming social pressure and smoke because they damn well want to/like it?

[saludas]

Heh. My boss wouldn't agree. Of course I'm Irish - I think that says it all.

Although, wouldn't all the sniveling earthy crunchy types who follow the latest fad in health be the more docile workers than those same people who buck the overwhelming social pressure and smoke because they damn well want to/like it?

I think what was meant by the comment is that tho the smokers show bravado, in reality they are the weaker ones. It does not show strength and conviction to do something that poses a health risk to yourself, your immediate family, and everyone that you come into contact with - it shows weakness, is what was implied by this manager.

Candidly, it appears this bravado is exploited by management - and encouraged by them (at the smoker's expense). Just an observation....

[Bradamant]

Thanks for explaining to me what was meant by the comment, candidly and with brio.

Despedidas.

ETA: :kissme:

[Joe]

Anybody who gets a speeding ticket should be jailed for the threat to public safety.
Speed doesn't kill. It's instantaneous deceleration that kills.

[bailarín]

exploited by management

You're serious?!?!?

[bamboozle1]

When i went to the Blackpool Dance Festival, i couldn't believe the amount of dancers that smoked !! It was disgusting !!
Jemma xXx

[!aborabi]

I dont know for you guys but I dont smoke...

[t.jockey]

yeah i think alot of ppl don't realize how many athletes actually smoke...its a baffling situation.

[jambodale]

dont know

[saludas]

Apparently in Europe they see that smoking is a mirror of intelligence:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14187600/

[samina]

thanks for bumping this thread, anagha... it contains some very interesting dialogue!

i'm not aware of many dancers in my circle that smoke...

[etp777]

I know of several pros (including one former world ten dance champ) who smoke, but I don't think the percentage is any higher than regular population, and might be lower. I was a smoker myself, picking it up again in part due to hanging out with some of said pros, but quit a few months back. Ironically, quit, in large part, due to influence of my teacher. :)

[samina]

i know my pro's coach smokes occasionally... can see it on his face, and have seen him lurking outside the studio.

everytime i see him with the slight gray pallor underneath the surface, i think to myself, "why...?! you're ruining your natural beauty... your beautiful life force is already visibly contaminated..."
course, that's my response whenever i see someone smoking. it just drains all the beauty & vitality out of their appearance, not to mention their functionality. and what it does to the human voice... so not pretty.

[etp777]

heh, pro found out I smoked by catching me walking down street with cigarette while I was wearing studio jacket. She wasn't pleased. :) All the same reasons you said, plus fact I was wearing the FA jacket while I was doing it. :)

[Sagitta]

I don't smoke...know a few who do...but I domn't dance with them because of inhaling that smokers breath from being in close proximity.

[Lucretia]

Do they????
Not in Sweden ...not many at all....I can recall just one person. Of course there are a lot of smokers outside the clubs - but they do not dance salsa. They are salsa/latino wannabees not salsadancers.

And salsadancers hardly drink. A very healthy community.

/Luc

[bailamos]

Yes, a lot of dancers smoke. It baffles the heck out of me that anyone (especially athletes) would be smoking. Since it hampers your performance and your appearance, I should be quite happy that I could have an edge on the competition floor. However, I have a more serious issue with smokers.
While it is your choice to smoke, it is a direct invasion of people's right to breathe smokeless air. There are some who are allergic to smoke and suffer from second hand smoke inhalation.
My mother was not a smoker, yet she suffers with her breathing due to emphysema. Her lungs are scarred, not as spongy as normal lungs and her breathing is much labored. Any one that places the stethoscope to her back always asks the same question “when did you stop smoking?” They are always shocked to hear that she never smoked.
She was subjected to a smoker’s habit for years in the work place. This smoker had no regard to my mother’s constant coughing and request to take her smoking elsewhere. This was at a time when smoking was banned building offices. The owner of the company did nothing to support my mom (he was a smoker himself and accustomed to smoke at the office).
This, no doubt, will shorten my mother’s life measurably. She now must use 2 inhalers and take medications with a nebulizer 4 times daily to help her breathe. This was not her choice, yet her quality of life is now compromised because of second hand smoke inhalation. She is also vulnerable to pneumonia.
Because of this, I have absolutely no sympathy for smokers. You can stop if you really want, but I have observed that most do not really want to. I am not saying it is easy, (neither is losing weight, or to stop drinking alcohol), but it can be done.
I have no problem confronting anyone who blow smoke in my “space” to go elsewhere. I don’t care if I come off as rude. I think it is rude that smokers do not consider anyone else but themselves. I can remember waiting 1 hour at a restaurant for a smoker-free table (back in the day when restaurants had a smoking area). After being seated, someone lights up a cigarette at the table next to us. When we protested that this was a non-smoking area, the smoker got indignant and “rolled the eyes” at us. I couldn’t believe the audacity and imprudence! I mean, could you get any ruder than that?
While you are certainly entitled to smoke and cause harm to yourself, your smoking causes harm to others. This especially irritates me when infants and children are subjected to smokers daily. For me, an asthma attack can be triggered if I inhale smoke. If you have never experienced an attack, consider yourself blessed. I have to dodge smokers on the street and hold my breath to protect myself. Not to even mention the countless articles of good clothing ruined by careless smoker’s cigarette burns.
If you want to self-destruct, do it on your own watch, not anyone else’s.

[newbie]

If they eat they'll gain weight. So, they smoke.

[tangotime]

Oddly --2 of the most powerful addictive substances in the world, are both legal-- Nicotine and Sugar .( could throw in alcohol, but dont want to get lynched !! ) :rolleyes:

[samina]

is it nicotine that's so addictive, or the zillions of mystery additives they put in the cigarettes? i've read that natural unadulterated tobacco is a different entity altogether, and not nearly as harmful as processed cigs...

for awhile, my son was having a cigarette now & then socially, and i told him that if that's what he was choosing to do, he should find & order the pure product online & roll his own rather than use the processed (contaminated) brands.

[quixotedlm]

Coffee, sugar, nicotine - all generally addictive and easily available :) In some places, I'd add marijuana/hashish/pot to the mix (in terms of legal use).

There are extreme examples of destruction and havoc caused by all of these, but can't tell for sure that there is anything fundamentally disturbing about any of these. The social imperative for preventing drug use doesn't seem to apply to any of these..

[samina]

i really do think that it's the poorer quality/maximally processed versions of these substances that are far more addictive. add salt to the list.

consume better quality (read: more mineralized) versions of any of these things, and they can even have therapeutic benefits...

[Joe]

What about chapstick? :p

[fascination]

i really do think that it's the poorer quality/maximally processed versions of these substances that are far more addictive. add salt to the list.

consume better quality (read: more mineralized) versions of any of these things, and they can even have therapeutic benefits...:cool:I've always felt that way about wine

[samina]

and i so agree

[tangotime]

I really should have added-- the " abuse " of pretty much anything. However-- is not tar, a derivative of tobacco ?

[quixotedlm]

I really should have added-- the " abuse " of pretty much anything. However-- is not tar, a derivative of tobacco ?

tar is any black viscous liquid that's produced by destructive distillation of organic matter than can burn.

heating in the absence of oxygen = pyrolysis.

pyrolysis in a distillation apparatus that allows the collection of volatile substances released during this process = destructive distillation.

when you smoke a cigarette, destructive distillation happens, in a manner of speaking. the rolled tobacco can burn in an atmosphere of reduced oxygen (inside the cigarette, there isn't much ventillation). this causes pyrolysis. your mouth/respiratory system/lungs act as the distillation apparatus where the volatile material ingested during 'smoking' is collected and distilled into the 'collection chamber' namely your lungs.

this tar, which is not the same as the asphalt tar used to make road surfaces, collects/deposits in lungs and sits there. it eventually triggers various biochemical processes leading to lung impairment, cancer etc.

[spectator]

Why does this dancer smoke?
because she likes it. a lot.

[quixotedlm]

Why does this dancer smoke?
because she likes it. a lot.

are we talking about cigarettes here ? ;)

[spectator]

fags, of course. I save the crystal meth for fat days.

[Peaches]

Why does this dancer smoke?
because she likes it. a lot.

fags, of course. I save the crystal meth for fat days.

Lol! I KNEW I liked you for a reason! Good to see you back, have missed your irreverent humor.

[quixotedlm]

fags, of course. I save the crystal meth for fat days.

oh, you're so limited to things... and here I thought you might be my type of gal :bkick:

[etp777]

Might be a bit of drive to pick her up for a date, anyway, quix. :)

[quixotedlm]

Might be a bit of drive to pick her up for a date, anyway, quix. :)

we can always do the online dating thing and end our night with a spirited session of cyber... :rolleyes:

[and123]

:shock:

[fascination]

uh yes...tone it down a bit plz

[quixotedlm]

:oops:

[dancerman]

I am sure many dancers smoke for the same reason that some non-dancers smoke, because they don't know how not to. Although I don't now hate the "fragrance" of stale cigarette smoke, as a former smoker I will never lose my empathy for those who want to quit but can't.
I just hope they are fortunate enough someday to appreciate the freedom of not having to light up between dances, during movies, between cocktails, or ..........

[jfm]

she also smokes occaisionally when she does her turbo milonga ochos.

[Reyesuela]

Of course there’s that fundamental difference. I mentioned coffee and broccoli only as examples of other substances which are carcinogenic to a very small degree (parallel to smells on a smokers clothing or smoke wafting on the breeze).

Broccoli is an anti-carcinogen--it helps PREVENT cancer.

And I don't drink coffee and rarely have caffeine. (BTW, there isn't any good evidence hat coffee is carcinogenic: http://www.inchem.org/documents/iarc/vol51/01-coffee.html) I'm solidly within my recommended weight range and exercise often. I never tan, either. I've been working on increasing--successfully--my fruit and veggie intake for some time now.

"Everyone" doesn't have destructive habits. If I were hurting myself knowingly, I'd really re-evaluate my life and try to figure out why I'm punishing myself like that and what I'm hoping to achieve by it.

I once was friends with a smoker who said she smoked because at least that way she'd "die happy, with a cigarette in her hands." I said, "Oh, you mean like our family friend who was in such agony from emphysema that he finally blew his own brains out and left his body for his family to find rather than suffer any longer?"

I never knew one grandfather because he smoked. The second one had considerable lung damage because of second-hand smoke,which made his last years more difficult. One of my grandmothers was a smoker and alcoholic. She kicked the alcohol in her 40s, and she stopped smoking when I asked her to when I was three because I didn't want her to die from it. Well, she'd done her body serious damage by that point, as the smoking and alcohol led to sever osteoporosis. She was in phenomenal amounts of pain for year and ended up almost bent double at the waist. She essentially died from organ failure because her bone collapsed around her organs. Talk about a gruesome way to go.

If you're knowingly choosing to do that to yourself, you've got even bigger problems than the smoking.

If you're doing that to someone else--ANYONE else, even a guy passing on the street--that's appalling. There is NO safe amount of cigarette smoke. That goes even for parents who never smoke inside the house--the mere exposure to the smoke on their clothes makes their kids more likely to have all sorts of problems.

I think the legal age of smoking should be raised one year per year--for the next 100 years.

[fascination]

I appreciate your strong feeling as someone who has lost her own mother to cancer...however, I think it is important to realize that smoking is a strong addiction...and that loving people use it as a coping mechanism and aren't always up to giving it up...we all have our limitations...just another thing to consider

[Peaches]

Broccoli is an anti-carcinogen--it helps PREVENT cancer.

And I don't drink coffee and rarely have caffeine. (BTW, there isn't any good evidence hat coffee is carcinogenic: http://www.inchem.org/documents/iarc/vol51/01-coffee.html) I'm solidly within my recommended weight range and exercise often. I never tan, either. I've been working on increasing--successfully--my fruit and veggie intake for some time now.

"Everyone" doesn't have destructive habits. If I were hurting myself knowingly, I'd really re-evaluate my life and try to figure out why I'm punishing myself like that and what I'm hoping to achieve by it.

I once was friends with a smoker who said she smoked because at least that way she'd "die happy, with a cigarette in her hands." I said, "Oh, you mean like our family friend who was in such agony from emphysema that he finally blew his own brains out and left his body for his family to find rather than suffer any longer?"

I never knew one grandfather because he smoked. The second one had considerable lung damage because of second-hand smoke,which made his last years more difficult. One of my grandmothers was a smoker and alcoholic. She kicked the alcohol in her 40s, and she stopped smoking when I asked her to when I was three because I didn't want her to die from it. Well, she'd done her body serious damage by that point, as the smoking and alcohol led to sever osteoporosis. She was in phenomenal amounts of pain for year and ended up almost bent double at the waist. She essentially died from organ failure because her bone collapsed around her organs. Talk about a gruesome way to go.

If you're knowingly choosing to do that to yourself, you've got even bigger problems than the smoking.

If you're doing that to someone else--ANYONE else, even a guy passing on the street--that's appalling. There is NO safe amount of cigarette smoke. That goes even for parents who never smoke inside the house--the mere exposure to the smoke on their clothes makes their kids more likely to have all sorts of problems.

I think the legal age of smoking should be raised one year per year--for the next 100 years.*sigh* :roll: Oi.

[etp777]

Could actually use on eright now myself, though trying to resist. This whole new job (and new apartment, new friends, new country, etc), is likely to get me started again. Esp as pro isn't around to tell me how bad it is and tha tI should quit out here. ;)

[Peaches]

Had you quit?

[etp777]

Yep, gave up smoking a while ago, maybe 5-6 months? on rare occasion might have one or two cigarettes (had 1 last monday, one at a wedding couple month s ago, etc), but that's it.

[fascination]

here's my rule...bum one but don't buy a pack....

[etp777]

Yeah, that's what I've done the few times (like those two mentioned) when I just have to have a smoke. because if I buy a whole pack, I probalby won't stop (though I have bought one sine then, and threw it away after only 2 cigarettes, didn't even finish eithe rof them. but can't count on that again. and can't afford that habit, least not at the price I paid for that pack in downtown Chicago at $7 or whtaever)

[Peaches]

here's my rule...bum one but don't buy a pack....
Don't work when your husband is a smoker. ;-)

[etp777]

The day I have a husband I'll have much bigger issues than whether or not I've started smoking again. :D

[Peaches]

*snort* Lol.

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

[etp777]

When you're someone who specifically started dancing because of all your hot FEMALE friends asking you to dance, it's probably not the proper path to go down. :)

[fascination]

Yeah, that's what I've done the few times (like those two mentioned) when I just have to have a smoke. because if I buy a whole pack, I probalby won't stop (though I have bought one sine then, and threw it away after only 2 cigarettes, didn't even finish eithe rof them. but can't count on that again. and can't afford that habit, least not at the price I paid for that pack in downtown Chicago at $7 or whtaever)
I never was a true smoker other than a few brief months when I worked the night shift with a bunch of smokers...but having been raised in a house full of it, I always craved it...now, unless I have had a few cocktails, it makes me positively ill...but when I have had a few cocktails...well...I bum a few

[fascination]

Don't work when your husband is a smoker. ;-)
there's a point...unless he adopts the same policy

[fascination]

The day I have a husband I'll have much bigger issues than whether or not I've started smoking again. :D
isn't legal in illinois yet:rolleyes:

[fascination]

When you're someone who specifically started dancing because of all your hot FEMALE friends asking you to dance, it's probably not the proper path to go down. :)dunno...men are much lower maintainence...okay...BOT

[Peaches]

Do we have to? This conversation is so much more amusing.

[fascination]

um...well...certain issues almost always lead to moderation ...and I would rather keep my regular member hat on...

[samina]

here's my rule...bum one but don't buy a pack....

had no idea you dipped your toes in that water.

have so say, when i smoked socially, i enjoyed every minute of it.

[fascination]

again , having buried my mother b/c of it, it is exceedlingly rare to never these days

[Peaches]

um...well...certain issues almost always lead to moderation ...and I would rather keep my regular member hat on...
*scratching head* OK. Well, that's fine. This is just more entertaining, IMO, than feeling like the punching bag for people who want to vent their spleen.

Don't get me wrong. I stand by what I said, and I don't regret saying it (on general principle--regret nothing--if nothing else). But it gets tiresome when we get new members who drag up the thread and start drawing conclusions about me, my personality, and god-knows-what else...without taking the time to even remotely get to "know" me via my tons of posts. Granted, that's their perogative (sp?), and it's the hazard of the medium. But still and all...it gets old.

[fascination]

I appreciate how that feels...but I can also appreciate how people who have watched the consequences unfold in their relatives can get very very strident about it...it is alot to live through...and if one doesn't keep in mind the addictive properties, it does become very difficult to see how the benefit outweighs the terrible terrible cost...I rather doubt the poster was specifically addressing you even though your post was the one used to respond in that way...

[samina]

::scrolling thru thread to see what peaches said that was so inflammatory::

meh... doesn't bother me. am wildly impressed by your "take umbrage" comment, tho, lol. in a world of crappy-speaking american english, DF delivers so much linguistic satisfaction. ;)

[fascination]

she didn't say anything inflammatory...I was speaking of the direction in which etp was taking us which at times leads me to have to moderate....got it?

[samina]

she didn't say anything inflammatory...I was speaking of the direction in which etp was taking us which at times leads me to have to moderate....got it?

wasn't responding to you, luv... had my eyes on that last giant post by reyesuela & peach's response. :)

[fascination]

lord ...I need a nap already...our clinic only does mammos at 6am...was up at 445...already exhausted

[samina]

i hear ya. ungodly hour.

[Peaches]

I appreciate how that feels...but I can also appreciate how people who have watched the consequences unfold in their relatives can get very very strident about it...it is alot to live through...and if one doesn't keep in mind the addictive properties, it does become very difficult to see how the benefit outweighs the terrible terrible cost...I rather doubt the poster was specifically addressing you even though your post was the one used to respond in that way...Very true.

Just because I continue to smoke, though, and just because I haven't posted about it, does not mean that I haven't watched people I care about die from it, and doesn't mean that I haven't lost family members to it. Because I have.

[Peaches]

she didn't say anything inflammatory...I was speaking of the direction in which etp was taking us which at times leads me to have to moderate....got it?
Ohhhhh...

[Peaches]

i hear ya. ungodly hour.No kidding. There aught to be a law against getting up that early.

[fascination]

Very true.

Just because I continue to smoke, though, and just because I haven't posted about it, does not mean that I haven't watched people I care about die from it, and doesn't mean that I haven't lost family members to it. Because I have.
yes...I imagine most people have...and it also doesn't mean you don't care...it means that currently you aren't giving it up

[samina]

i turned off my alarm at 5:15 & momentarily gave up on crack-o-dawn pilates in lieu of cozy winter covers... but somehow i turned it around. i find it tough to get outa bed in the winter.

i know, totally off-topic.:rolleyes:

[fascination]

No kidding. There aught to be a law against getting up that early.particularly to have some metal glued to your uh...parts... and then have them unceremoniously slammed into a plastic vise while you hold your breath...bleh

[fascination]

i turned off my alarm at 5:15 & momentarily gave up on crack-o-dawn pilates in lieu of cozy winter covers... but somehow i turned it around. i find it tough to get outa bed in the winter.

i know, totally off-topic.:rolleyes:
lol...shhh...I don't get upset if we get off topic once a thread has gone very dormant...as long as we don't move into moderatable territory...um...and the other moderators are still asleep;)

[Peaches]

lol...shhh...I don't get upset if we get off topic once a thread has gone very dormant...as long as we don't move into moderatable territory...um...and the other moderators are still asleep;)
Damn...I think I need a diagram of the logic to follow that.

[fascination]

I never claimed to be logical...but I try to be fair

[Peaches]

Logic is overrated, anyway. At least it seems to be, based on goings on in the world.

[fascination]

don't get me wrong...I TRY to be logical...it just isn't my skillset...far more intuitive...but...am working on it

[fascination]

perhaps if I had a cigarette I could puzzle it out

[Peaches]

See, and logic is far more of a strong point for me than intuition. Particularly intuition of the feminine variety. Just wish that was saying something, because there are times when the logic is a bit lacking as well.

Nah, I don't think a straight-up tobacco cigarette is going to give you the clarity of thought you're looking for.

[fascination]

well then, I am headed upstairs for more coffee then off to the gym...if that doesn't work...a pre-lesson nap...btw...I have never "genderized" my intuitive nature...I think it would tend to ascribe a negative quality to it which I reject...intuition is largely non-verbalized logic IMO

[samina]

Damn...I think I need a diagram ....

read that as diaphragm... lol...

[fascination]

heh...she might as well throw one of those up there too

[etp777]

she didn't say anything inflammatory...I was speaking of the direction in which etp was taking us which at times leads me to have to moderate....got it?

Oh sure, blame it on me.

Just because I was responsible doesn't mean anything. :D

[Beto]

Damn...I think I need a diagram of the logic to follow that.
Makes perfect sense to me. Really just another way of saying 'window of opportunity' :D

[tj]

If there's a lot of smoke, maybe it's time to change the oil?

[Joe]

Could be antifreeze--head gasket. ;)

[mamboqueen]

Head gasket...hah..kiss the engine goodbye.

[BlueDingo]

Dancers smoke for the same reason models do, to stay skinny. Nicotine prolongs the need for food by filling you up and suppressing hunger. I also think they smoke for the relaxing sensation it gives on hectic, stressful days, especially during long and hard practices. They're to many pressures on girls professionally to be skinny and have "the perfect body" and that is the main reason that drives girls to smoke.

I do not smoke, just to clarify.

[Peaches]

Dancers smoke for the same reason models do, to stay skinny. Nicotine prolongs the need for food by filling you up and suppressing hunger. [...snip...]They're to many pressures on girls professionally to be skinny and have "the perfect body" and that is the main reason that drives girls to smoke. Dammit! When's this thing gonna kick in?!?!

[etp777]

Indeed I'll go buy a carton of camels at the px right now if I can get that side effect. :)

[Peaches]

No kidding, right?

You mean I've been trying to limit my smoking, and thinking that I smoke because I enjoy it, and the rituals around it, and the habit, and the relaxation...and because I'm addicted (either to the nicotine or the above things)...and I could have been smoking so much more and gettin' skinny?

Dangit! So much time, just wasted!

Somebody pass me a lighter!

[etp777]

Man, just about 5, and REALLY want to pick up a pack now. Been insanely busy day, Tier 3 (or 1? acn't remember which order they number them in) above us pushed down a new policy, one day early, that hass about a third of the base not able to login to their computers. Been scrambling all day trying to fix this for people, and have to do it individually, can't push a mass fix.

[Heather2007]

Worse! Why do oncologists smoke. Now, there's the rub

[Peaches]

Don't do it, etp. Believe me, I understand. But if you've managed to be quit for this long, don't start again.

[saludas]

Dancers smoke for the same reason models do, to stay skinny. Nicotine prolongs the need for food by filling you up and suppressing hunger. I also think they smoke for the relaxing sensation it gives on hectic, stressful days, especially during long and hard practices. They're to many pressures on girls professionally to be skinny and have "the perfect body" and that is the main reason that drives girls to smoke.

I do not smoke, just to clarify.

FYI, every time you see a size 20 standing outside a building, in freezing weather, eyes scrunched in that 'smoker's crinkle', it's one more sign that 'smoking for beauty' does not work....

[spectator]

Sooooo.....

If I roll my own blend and put in some broccoli florets as the filter.......?

[fascination]

Dammit! When's this thing gonna kick in?!?!
um...you know I love you... but cancer makes one very very skinny and it ain't worth it...which I know you know...you are beautiful just the way you are

[Peaches]

Oh, I know. I was being purely facetious. Having a bit of fun being a smart-alec.

[fascination]

I know but...well...I worry about you sometimes...can't help it

[Peaches]

I know, and I appreciate it. I worry about me, too. Sometimes, though, words/posts of mine are a way of dealing with and deflecting criticism before someone has the chance to make something more of it. ;-)

[fascination]

mkay

[DoALittleDance]

Along the lines of addiction, I am extremely impressed, proud, and happy for those of you who have quit, for it is insanely addictive, and it takes a very determined person to quit. You have to believe in your REASONS to quit, and never give up, and use a multi-pronged approach.

Cocodrillo, congratulations to you. You are a good example for the others!


You are so right. I'm trying to quit right now, and it is quite the journey. I imagined it would be soooo much easier than it is. Hopefully i can stick to it!

[melissalive33]

I think its a completely social thing

[fascination]

well it may start as a social thing but it is an addiction as powerful as heroin

[noobster]

well it may start as a social thing but it is an addiction as powerful as heroin

I understand the point you are trying to make, but I'm guessing you have never seen anyone in the acute stages of withdrawal from heroin?!!

[fascination]

didn't say the withdrawal was as bad...only that the addiction was as strong...which has been backed up by research studies...pardon my inability to access them several years out from the source...but yes, I have seen a variety of withdrawal scenarios...including crack babies...not fun...

[flashdance]

Best wishes to those of you trying to quit. I've never smoked myself but I'd imagine it can take a lot of will power to give up. But just think in your mind how good you'll feel/look without the smoking. < that's something I kept thinking of when losing weight. It can be done - it's all in your head.

I only smoke if I'm moving fast. :lol:

:banana:

ditto. I carpet burned my jazz shoes with some 80s music :(

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/5636/dbootshb4.jpg

[Joe]

Very appropriate u/n for that. ;)

[pnoisette]

Hate the smell on the breath of a partner who smokes. No two words about it: it stinks. As for will power, don't think it works that way: smoking is an addiction like alcoholism and addictions go way beyond a matter of "willing" oneself to quit.

http://www.newscitech.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/lung_cancer.jpg

[KathyInKY]

...As for will power, don't think it works that way: smoking is an addiction like alcoholism and addictions go way beyond a matter of "willing" oneself to quit.

You are so right, pnoisette!

As a new dancer and a new quitter I'm very happy to have stumbled upon this thread. Cheers to the original poster!

[dancerman]

You are so right. I'm trying to quit right now, and it is quite the journey. I imagined it would be soooo much easier than it is. Hopefully i can stick to it!


Congratulations on your accomplishment. If you have not smoked today you have already quit. You never have to go through it again. I smoked for many years and hated it most of them. Thank God I have been smoke free for over a decade, but I will never forget. It was tough but well worth it. If one has never had the addiction, a real true addiction to nicotine, one has no idea what it is like.
Quit for you. You're worth it.

[Bella]

I'm bringing this article back up in clear view of fellow DFers - Very important article. I've seen too many dancers smoking and I wonder - how will you accomplish your dream if you're killing yourself while chasing it?

[DL]

bump

[fascination]

this would be a far better place to continue the argument (so that I don't end up locking the other one)

[aarushi2]

It makes sense that smoking and professional dance go hand in hand. First, smoking is a proven weight deterrent and many dancers fight a constant battle to keep pounds off. Besides being an oral pacifier, nicotine also speeds up your metabolism, an added attraction for dancers always looking to find an edge.

[pygmalion]

Welcome to DF, aarushii2. :-D

[pbdc]

I don't think smoking would prove that beneficial to your dancing. Even if smoking boosted your metabolism, wouldn't the damage to your lungs outweigh the benefits, especially in dances like jive/quickstep?