Revised dress rules, take 3

[twnkltoz]

Ok, I'll start it. How about starting with a brainstorming session...what do you think should be disallowed costumes-wise for youth and adult competitors in syllabus competitions?

[pygmalion]

Great! Thanks, twnkloz. :D Does anybody have text of an existing rule set we can use for a starting point? Please post. 8)

[Chris Stratton]

One thing to keep in mind: the IDSF doesn't seem to make rules except for championship, so anything allowed in open is theoretically on the bargaining table for syllabus: the debate over appropriate additional restrictions is purely inside USA Dance.

[Laura]

Okay, I'm getting together the current IDSF rules with a little bit of commentary in them. Hang on....

[Porfirio Landeros]

Is it worth mentioning what the mission is for each set of rules, like, "the spirit of the rules set for adult syllabus is to create an environment friendly to newcomers and focused more on the dancing rather than over-dressing"? That was a ramble off the top of my head, but would making a general statement for each catengory be worth while, before getting down to specifics?

[Laura]

Good idea. I've always wanted some motivating statements incorporated into the rules or some other commentary. I think a lot of people would be a lot more comfortable or at least understanding of some of the rules if they were told what was behind them.

[Laura]

My next post will be the IDSF rules. I've added a few notes, they'll be marked with traditional editor's square brackets: [Note text goes here -- LLL] LLL is my initials, I did it that way so that you'd know the comments came from me.

[Laura]

IDSF DRESS REGULATIONS
[Singapore, 2002 -- LLL]

JUVENILES
[Juveniles are what we still call Pre-Teen in the US. The age range is 11-and-under. -- LLL]

GIRLS

DRESS:
-Black skirt + white blouse, leotard or T shirt
-Simple one colour dress + panties
-Leotard with skirt attached

Skirt is plain or pleated made of minimum 1 to maximum 3 half circles. One simple circular underskirt allowed. No frills on the skirt or the underskirt. No boning, soft boning or fishing line can be used in the hem of the skirt. The skirt should not be more then 10 cm above the knee and not longer than just below the knee cap. The panties of the dress have to cover the underwear. For permitted designs see appendix I. [This is the diagram with all the kid dresses that we see in the USA Dance rules. -- LLL]

MATERIAL:
Not [sic] see through materials and no metallic materials are allowed. Combination of different materials of the same colour is allowed. If lace is used it has to be lined with opaque material of the same colour.

COLOUR:
Any colour except flesh (skin colour).

Panties have to be the same colour as the dress.

DECORATION:
No decoration allowed (rhinestones, sequins, feathers, flowers, bows, fringe, lace applications etc.)

SHOES:
Block (square) heel shoes only, heel no higher than 3,5 cm. Any colour is allowed. The shoes may be worn with short socks of any colour. Skin colour tights may be worn, no mesh tights allowed.


HAIRSTYLES:
No elaborate high hair styles, artificial hair, hair ornaments, coloured hair spray and no glitter can be used.

MAKE UP:
No make up is allowed. No artificial lashes, artificial nails, glitter, artificial tan and no nail polish.

JEWELLERY:
No jewellery allowed (bracelets, rings, necklaces)

BOYS

DRESS:
Black trousers, underfoot strap optional. Black belt optional, metallic buckle allowed. Plain white long sleeved, ready to wear shirt (cotton or polycotton preferred), no shiny or patterned materials allowed. No wing collar and rolled up sleeves allowed. Black tie or bow tie must be worn for Latin and Standard. Metallic tie clip allowed: The shirt must be tucked in.
[Sorry, there's some funky punctuation here. I can't believe they didn't have a native English speaker proof this. -- LLL]

DECORATION:
No decoration is allowed.

SHOES:
Black low heel (max 2 cm) leather, suede or patent shoes only. Worn with black socks.
[See! Plain leather shoes ARE allowed! -- LLL]

HAIRSTYLES:
Short hair is preferred. If the hair is long it has to be worn in a ponytl [sic].

MAKE UP:
No make up is allowed.

JEWELLERY:
No jewellery allowed.



JUNIOR I
[Junior I is ages 12-13. -- LLL]


GIRLS

DRESS -LATIN AND STANDARD-:
Competition dress with no decoration (rhinestones, sequins, beads, pearls and feathers …). Metallic, glitter and sequined materials are not allowed. Combination of different colours, lace materials, lace applications, flowers and fringe are allowed.


For the rules regarding the cut of the dress refer to the adult section of dress regulations and appendix II.
[This refers to the second diagram, the one of an adult woman with the parts that have to be covered shaded. -- LLL]

COLOUR:
Any colour except flesh (skin colour).
[This seems to clear up the question as to who can wear what. You can't have the color of your dress be your skin color. If you're black, you can wear beige, and if you're white, you can wear deep brown, but you can't wear whatever matches your own tone. -- LLL]

Panties have to be the same colour as the dress.
[Oh good :) -- LLL]


SHOES:
2" (5 cm) cuban or slim heel is allowed worn without short socks. No mesh tights allowed.
[Good, this cleans up any picky points about metric conversion. -- LLL]

HAIRSTYLE AND MAKE UP:
The same rules apply for junior I as for juveniles.

JEWELLERY:
No jewellery allowed (bracelets, rings, necklaces)

BOYS

DRESS -LATIN-:

As Juveniles or:

Black or midnight blue trousers. Black belt optional, metallic buckle allowed.

Black, midnight blue , or white long sleeved top (no rolled up sleeves). The top must be tucked in. Black or midnight blue vest optional. Metallic tie clip is allowed.

For the materials and cut of the top refer to the adult section of the rules.

DECORATION:
No decoration is allowed.

SHOES:

As juvenile

HAIRSTYLES:
Short hair is preferred. If the hair is long it has to be worn in a ponytail.

MAKE UP:
No make up is allowed.

JEWELLERY:
No jewellery allowed.

DRESS -STANDARD-:


Black or midnight blue trousers and vest worn with:
-white long sleeved shirt and black tie or bow tie
or
-white dress shirt and white bow tie

Metallic tie clip and cufflinks are allowed.

DECORATION:
No decoration is allowed.

SHOES:
Black low heel shoes only. Worn with black socks.

HAIRSTYLES:
Short hair is preferred. If the hair is long it has to be worn in a ponytail.

MAKE UP:
No make up is allowed.

JEWELLERY:
No jewellery allowed.


IT IS ALWAYS ALLOWED TO DANCE DRESSED ACCORDING TO A LOWER
GRADE RULE.

FOR EXAMPLE JUNIOR I CAN USE JUVENILE DRESS OR JUNIOR II CAN USE JUNIOR I DRESS.

IF JUNIOR I AND JUNIOR II ARE NOT DIVIDED, RULES FOR JUNIOR II APPLY.
[Good, that's how I've been running things locally for the past few years. -- LLL]


JUNIOR II [Ages 14-15, so now we're talking high school age. -- LLL]

GIRLS

DRESS -LATIN AND STANDARD-:

As junior I or as adult.

BOYS

DRESS -LATIN-:

As junior I or as adult.

DRESS -STANDARD-:

Black or midnight blue trousers and vest or black or midnight blue trousers and jacket, worn with white long sleeved shirt and black tie or white dress shirt and white bow tie. Metallic tie clip is allowed.

or

Tail suit (black or midnight blue) with all the accessories (dress shirt, bow tie, studs etc.)

DECORATION:
No decoration is allowed.

SHOES:
Black low heeled shoes with black socks.

HAIRSTYLES:
Short hair is preferred. If the hair is long it has to be worn in a ponytail.

JEWELLERY:
No jewellery allowed.



YOUTH + ADULT + SENIOR
[Youth starts at age 16. Youths can dance up into Adult events. -- LLL]

LADIES

DRESS -LATIN-:
Competition dress.

For the rules regarding the cut of the dress refer to appendix II.

The area between the hip line and the panty line, plus the breast area must be covered completely. (Hip line is defined as the top of the hip bone).

No see through material is allowed on these areas. No high cut panties, tangas, cuts bellow the hip line and see through inserts in the panties.

When standing the skirt should cover the panties completely. It is preferable that the panties show as little as possible during dancing.

If the dress is two piece, then the top must not be a bra only.
[Based on the picture of the shaded woman, though, I'd say that a bra with stuff hanging off it it so it looks like some sort of bare midriff top is okay. -- LLL]

COLOUR:
Any colour except flesh (skin colour).

Panties have to be black or the same colour as the dress.

SHOES:
No restriction.

HAIRSTYLES AND MAKE UP:
Excessive make up and too elaborate hair styles are not desirable.
[I see this as being a warning and not a rule. I guess this gives officials leeway to tell someone they look like Krusty the Klown. -- LLL]

JEWELLERY:
The chairman can ask the competitor to remove an item of jewellery if it presents danger to the dancer or to other competitors.
[Ta daaa!! So now we have justification for letting ADULTS wear whatever rings they want, including their wedding rings. -- LLL]

DRESS -STANDARD-:

Competition dress with decoration.

No two piece dresses are allowed. No cuts bellow the waist line, no low necklines. The breast area has to be covered completely. No see through materials on the brest area and between the waist and the pantie [sic] line.

If the skirt is split it can be split to the knee and not higher.

COLOUR:
Any colour except flesh (skin colour).

SHOES:
No restriction.

HAIRSTYLES AND MAKE UP:
Excessive make up and too elaborate hair styles are not desirable.

JEWELLERY:
The chairman can ask the competitor to remove an item of jewellery if it presents danger to the dancer or to other competitors.

MEN

DRESS -LATIN-:

Trousers: Black or midnicht blue (no see through material is allowed).

Shirt/Top: Any colour including multi colour except flesh (skin colour).

See through materials can be used as the decoration but not as a basic material. The amount of see through material used can not exceed 25 %

The shirt or top has to be tucked in. No sleeveless shirt or tops are allowed.

The shirt can be open down to the end of the breast bone

Vest, jacket or bolero jacket of the same colours as trousers are optional.

Tie, bow tie or scarf are optional. If a scarf is worn it has to be tied and tucked inside the shirt.

DECORATIONS:
Use of decoration is allowed.

SHOES:
No restriction.

HAIRSTYLE:

Short hairstyle is preferred. If the hair is long it has to be worn in a ponytail.

JEWELLERY:
The chairman can ask the competitor to remove an item of jewellery if it presents danger to the dancer or to other competitors.

DRESS -STANDARD-:

LADIES AND MEN

USE OF RELIGIOUS SYMBOLS AS DECORATION OR JEWELLERY IS NOT ALLOWED.

CHANGE OF DRESS DURING THE ROUND IS NOT ALLOWED EXCEPT IN A CASE OF AN ACCIDENT THAT MAKES THE DRESS UNUSABLE.

ADVERTISING Advertising according to the IDSF Competition Rules.

[Chris Stratton]

Yeah the IDSF rules look fairly tolerable. If anyone has the old USABDA rules around it would be interesting if Junior II was then restricted to really low heels, but other than that not too much to object to.

Again though, these are rules for open, and still pretty minimal in the adult category; what further restrictions make sense in preparatory levels is a per-country decision.

For Adult/Youth:

I'm not quite sure why the old (pre-2005) adult syllabus rule can't simply be modified to include the new IDSF 'decency' rules applicable to open, and then be done with it. The open smooth guys could then inherit permission from the syllabus rules, just as they used to.

For the younger categories:

It doesn't look like syllabus needs to be restricted beyond the IDSF open rules. Simply transcribe them more accurately and fix the obvious errors. There are changes I would like to make (allow longer skirts, let boys wear a colored long tie and sweater, etc) but altering the IDSF rules is a whole different project.

[Laura]

Yep Chris -- I think most of us here on the same wavelength. I'm going to start on the changes and will post them here. I think it would be easier on me if we did them a section at a time. I'll start with the Juveniles and work up (since doing the kids won't take long as those rules were pretty good to begin with). I've got copies of the three most recent USABDA rule books hanging around, too. Doing the Adult Syllabus will be the most interesting, but I feel like I should save it for last :)

[ACtenDance]

What about looking into the costuming rules for in other countries like UK, Germany, Australia, etc? I dont' have time right now, but I'd be interested in seeing how other countries cope with syllabus costuming.

[Laura]

Well, the adult syllabus rules we had in the past seemed to be very reasonable. I'd be very happy with just heading back in that direction. Take a look when I get there and tell me what you think. Right now I'm about to post the Pre-Teen re-write. I just fixed some spelling and grammar errors, rewrote a couple of sentences to make things clearer, and added a couple things that came directly out of the IDSF rules for Juveniles -- like the thing about plain black leather shoes.

[Laura]

PROPOSED NEW USA DANCESPORT DRESS CODE (section 3.10)

Changes from the 2005-2006 USA DanceSport rules (effective May 2, 2005) are in bold. Editor’s comments are in bold italic.

3.10.1. PRE-TEENS:
The rules for Pre-Teens are intended to conform to current International DanceSport Federation (IDSF) rules for the Juvenile age group.
3.10.1.1. All dance styles and proficiency categories
3.10.1.1.1. Boys
3.10.1.1.1.1. Costume: Black trousers (underfoot strap optional), optional black belt, black socks, plain white long sleeve shirt (no shiny or patterned materials, no wing collar, no rolled up sleeves, must be worn tucked in), and optional black tie or bow tie (metallic tie clip allowed).
3.10.1.1.2. Decoration: None.
3.10.1.1.1.3. Shoes: Black leather, suede or patent leather, low heel (maximum heel height 2cm [3/4” ?? – LLL]).
3.10.1.1.1.4. Hairstyle: Short cut or long hair in ponytail.
3.10.1.1.1.5. Makeup: None (no artificial tan).
3.10.1.1.1.6. Jewelry: None.
3.10.1.1.2. Girls
3.10.1.1.2.1. Costume: Black skirt and white shirt, blouse, leotard, or t-shirt; leotard with attached same-color skirt; or simple one-color dress with same color panties (must cover underwear). Skirt is plain or pleated, made of one to a maximum of three half-circles, one simple circular underskirt is allowed. No frills [or ruffles?? – LLL] on the skirt or underskirt. Any single color is allowed except flesh-toned; no metallic or transparent materials; no boning, soft boning or fishing line allowed in skirt hem. Minimum skirt length is 10cm [4" ?? -- LLL] above the knee cap, maximum skirt length is just below the knee cap (see Figure 1 – Regulation Costume Diagrams, below). Short socks may be any color, skin colored tights allowed, no mesh [or fishnet?? – LLL] tights.
3.10.1.1.2.2. Decoration: None (no rhinestones, no feathers, no flowers, no bows, no fringe, no lace applications, no beads, no pearls, no sequins, etc.)
3.10.1.1.2.3. Shoes: Any color block (square) heel shoe (maximum height 3.5cm [1 ¼” ?? – LLL].
3.10.1.1.2.4. Hairstyle: No artificial hair, no hair ornaments, no colored hair spray, no glitter, no elaborate high hair styles.
3.10.1.1.2.5. Makeup: None (no artificial eye lashes, no artificial nails, no artificial tan, no nail polish, no glitter).
3.10.1.1.2.6. Jewelry: None (no bracelets, no rings, no necklaces [no earrings?? – LLL]).

[callen]

Something to keep in mind is dancers dancing in multiple levels. For example, what happens to the dancer who is covered in fake tan for the pre-champ Latin who follows that with the gold Latin? Does the dancer get disqualified from the gold for having the tan? Does the dancer have to be penalized for not wearing the tan in the pre-champ to prevent disqualification from the gold? This is along the lines of letting women with permanent fake nails dance. We just need to take care and be reasonable.

On a related note, hairpieces and the like should be allowed at many levels to allow those with tupees, wigs to cover baldness from chemo, etc. to dance without feeling awkward.

The same type of thing could certainly be true of championship youth dancers competing in championship adult A; some of them are some of the best in adult A, and we want to allow them to do both. I don't think we have to worry about most other age category cross-overs.

Christopher

[Porfirio Landeros]

Something to keep in mind is dancers dancing in multiple levels.Good call... maybe an escape clause for non-removeable body enhancements.... but, on the other side, maybe people dancing in multiple categories should error on the side of the stricter rule set. For example (even though this really isn't a rule), world 10 dancer men usually have shorter, cleaner haircuts, instead of having a pony tail, which is fine for a Latin only dancer, but risky for Standard... but hairpieces could be allowed for all levels, and tans mabye just for adults.

[Laura]

Something to keep in mind is dancers dancing in multiple levels. For example, what happens to the dancer who is covered in fake tan for the pre-champ Latin who follows that with the gold Latin? Does the dancer get disqualified from the gold for having the tan? Does the dancer have to be penalized for not wearing the tan in the pre-champ to prevent disqualification from the gold?

By rule 3.10.5, "Competitors may always dress according to lower proficiency level dress codes." Therefore, if you are doing syllabus and Novice or Pre-Champ, then you should groom yourself according to the syllabus rules if there is not time to re-groom between events. I know it's not *ideal*, but at least it's workable. I think the JUDGES need to be reminded that junk like tanning and costumes aren't everything. I was very dismayed to watch the Dance Vision tape "The Judges' View" and see the judges go on and ON about grooming.

This is along the lines of letting women with permanent fake nails dance. We just need to take care and be reasonable.

Well, not quite the same, it's a matter of degree.

On a related note, hairpieces and the like should be allowed at many levels to allow those with tupees, wigs to cover baldness from chemo, etc. to dance without feeling awkward.

I think they should be allowed for all adults, no matter what the level.

The same type of thing could certainly be true of championship youth dancers competing in championship adult A; some of them are some of the best in adult A, and we want to allow them to do both. I don't think we have to worry about most other age category cross-overs.

This is not an issue because Championship Youths currently fall under the same rules as Adults.

[Laura]

Okay, I'm about to post the Junior I re-write. Please, even if you have no interest in the kids, read them over and see if you can catch mistakes, typos, bad grammar, unclear stuff. Anywhere I put a comment with some ?? in it, it's because I was wondering if you all think it's a good idea to add what I said to the rules.

[Laura]

3.10.2. JUNIOR I:
The rules for Junior I are intended to conform to current International DanceSport Federation (IDSF) rules for the Junior I age group.
3.10.2.1. All dance styles and proficiency categories
3.10.2.1.1. Boys
3.10.2.1.1.1. Costume: Black or midnight blue trousers (underfoot strap optional), optional black belt, black socks, white long sleeve shirt (no shiny or patterned materials, no wing collar, no rolled up sleeves, must be worn tucked in), optional black or midnight blue vest, and optional black tie or bow tie (metallic tie clip allowed). White dress shirt, white bow tie, and cufflinks are allowed in Standard/Smooth.
3.10.2.1.1.2. Decoration: None.
3.10.2.1.1.3. Shoes: Black leather, suede or patent leather, low heel (maximum heel height 2cm [3/4” ?? – LLL]).
3.10.2.1.1.4. Hairstyle: Short cut or long hair in ponytail.
3.10.2.1.1.5. Makeup: None (no artificial tan).
3.10.2.1.1.6. Jewelry: None, except for one plain gold or silver ¼” round post per ear (no rhinestones, no glitter, no sequins, no bracelets, no rings, no necklaces, no visible body piercing).
3.10.2.1.2. Girls
3.10.2.1.2.1. Costume: Competition dress. Any color allowed except for flesh-toned; no metallic, transparent, sequin or glitter materials allowed (see Figure 2 below). Panties must be the same color as the dress. No short socks, no mesh [or fishnet ?? – LLL] tights.
3.10.2.1.2.2. Decoration: No rhinestones, no feathers, no bows, no beads, no pearls, no sequins, etc.
3.10.2.1.2.3. Shoes: Cuban or slim heel shoe (maximum heel height 5cm [2” ?? – LLL]).
3.10.2.1.2.4. Hairstyle: no artificial hair, no hair ornaments, no colored hair spray, no glitter, no elaborate high hair styles.
3.10.2.1.2.5. Makeup: None (no artificial eye lashes, no artificial nails, no artificial tan, no nail polish, no glitter).
3.10.2.1.2.6. Jewelry: None, except for one plain gold or silver ¼” round post per ear (no rhinestones, no glitter, no sequins, no bracelets, no rings, no necklaces, no visible body piercing).

[Laura]

Well, Junior II was easy, it remains as written. I'll post it anyway for completeness.

[Laura]

3.10.3. Junior II:
3.10.3.1.1. Boys:
3.10.3.1.1.1. Same as Junior I for syllabus and Novice proficiency levels.
3.10.3.1.1.2. Same as Junior I or Adult for Pre-Championship and higher proficiency levels.
3.10.3.1.2. Girls:
3.10.3.1.2.1. Same as Junior I for syllabus and Novice proficiency levels.
3.10.3.1.2.2. Same as Junior I or Adult for Pre-Championship and higher proficiency levels.

[DancingMommy]

had great reply - baby trashed it.

perhaps digging into BYU rules would be good too?

Love what you've done BTW.

[Laura]

I prefer not to go to the BYU rules because they are super restrictive. I believe it's possible to have decent rules without going to the point of having to measure people's body parts :)

Okay, now for the main event...I've taken a first cut at the Adult Syllabus rules. They'll be in my next post.

[Kitty]

What about looking into the costuming rules for in other countries like UK, Germany, Australia, etc? I dont' have time right now, but I'd be interested in seeing how other countries cope with syllabus costuming.

As I know from my friends experience, she wore ballgowns in lower levels of ballroom in Russia, furthermore her family felt the teacher made it a requirement. I'm not sure if it actually is, but maybe people feel that way cause everyone wears ballgowns in lower levels there.

[Chris Stratton]

I think at some point a cardigan sweater should be an option - perhaps anywhere a vest is? Or only above a certain age group?

Also, how high are basic standard heels for guys? Supadance often calls the low heel 1", which seems an overstatement, but would be more than 2cm.

[DancingMommy]

I prefer not to go to the BYU rules because they are super restrictive. I believe it's possible to have decent rules without going to the point of having to measure people's body parts :)

Okay, now for the main event...I've taken a first cut at the Adult Syllabus rules. They'll be in my next post.

I'm waiting with bated keyboard (breath) :)

I actually appreciate the BYU rules as applied to children. But I concur they do feel slightly posterior-rentitive for adults.

[Laura]

3.10.4. YOUTHS, ADULTS, AND SENIORS:
3.10.4.1. All dance styles. All syllabus proficiency categories.
The purpose of these syllabus dress code rules is to create an environment friendly to newcomers and lower-level competitors by keeping the focus on the dancing rather than on excessive grooming and costly elaborate costuming.
3.10.4.1.1. Men
3.10.4.1.1.1 Costume: Dark dress pants (underfoot strap optional). Dress shirt for Standard/Smooth, dress shirt or plain short or long sleeved shirt for Latin/Rhythm. No shiny or patterned materials (except stripes) are allowed, no rolled up sleeves, shirt must be worn tucked in. Optional tuxedo jacket (short jacket, not a tailcoat) or vest in black or to match pants. Optional cardigan sweater for Standard/Smooth in black or to match pants. Optional tie or bow tie (metallic tie clip allowed). Cufflinks are allowed.
3.10.4.1.1.2. Decoration: None.
3.10.4.1.1.3. Shoes: Black shoes suitable for dancing.
3.10.4.1.1.4. Hairstyle: Short hairstyle is preferred, and hair should be neatly groomed away from the face. If the hair is long, it must be worn in a ponytail.
3.10.4.1.1.5. Makeup: May wear minimal makeup, including artificial tan.
3.10.4.1.1.6. Jewelry: No restrictions except that religious symbols may not be worn. No jewelry may be worn that may constitute a danger to competitors (including self).
3.10.4.1.2. Women
3.10.4.1.2.1. Costume: Skirt and shirt, blouse, bodysuit, leotard, or t-shirt. Simple undecorated cocktail-style dress or dance dress. Any color is allowed except flesh-toned; no metallic, transparent, sequin, or glitter materials allowed; no boning or fishing line allowed in skirt hem.
3.10.4.1.2.2. Decoration: None (no rhinestones, no feathers, no bows, no beads, no pearls, no sequins, etc.)
3.10.4.1.2.3. Shoes: No restrictions.
3.10.4.1.2.4. Hairstyle: No restrictions. Elaborate high hair styles are not desirable.
3.10.4.1.2.5. Makeup: No restrictions. Excessive makeup is not desirable.
3.10.4.1.2.6. Jewelry: No restrictions except that religious symbols may not be worn. No jewelry may be worn that may constitute a danger to competitors (including self).

[DancingMommy]

BRAVA BRAVA BRAVA
:applause: :banana: :notworth:
:applause: :banana: :notworth:
:applause: :banana: :notworth:
:applause: :banana: :notworth:
:applause: :banana: :notworth:
:applause: :banana: :notworth:
:applause: :banana: :notworth:
:applause: :banana: :notworth:

[Chris Stratton]

If we allow short sleeves in latin, why not rolled up long sleeves?

Also are you intending to ban foundation makeup for guys? (Not that I'd know, but it seemed to be the list when someone asked where to start)

[Laura]

If we allow short sleeves in latin, why not rolled up long sleeves?

Messiness factor. I think some of the dress rules are meant to preserve some sense of formality/decorum. I figured we could give USA Dance the rolled up sleeves if they let us have short sleeves -- note that the original rules didn't even allow for short sleeves, and I put that in.

Also are you intending to ban foundation makeup for guys? (Not that I'd know, but it seemed to be the list when someone asked where to start)

I was thinking of banning makeup for syllabus guys as a whole and then figured what the hell, most guys don't put on makeup in syllabus anyway. I did add bronzer to the allowable list, because that's what most of the guys I know use in place of foundation. Let me go back and look. I don't want the rule to start looking like the makeup is expected, because it's not, and I'm afraid if we enumerate too much a complete newbie would look at what is allowed and wonder "am I supposed to be wearing this? Do other guys actually wear this?"

[Laura]

Ahh, I have the solution for the foundation issue: simplification of the rule. Personally, I've always felt that foundation/powder were one of those "don't ask/don't tell" kinds of things -- you never know when someone is covering a scar, a port wine stain, a birth mark, a zit, or a hickey. :) I'll take out all mention of products except for tanning.

How's this?

3.10.4.1.1.5. Makeup: May wear minimal makeup, including artificial tan.

If you all like it I'll go back and put it in the previous post (above).

[Kitty]

guys make up solution is fine.

Original rules ban glittery sprays and body glitter. why did you leave this restriction out?

[DancingMommy]

I'd leave it out since that junk is EASILY available at every drugstore in town. I can even get it at the dollar tree on occasion. I'd think that stuff that is hard to get if you aren't totally in the loop would be fine to be left out.

[Chris Stratton]

I guess I'm just not understanding why the new adult syllabus rules need to still have restrictions in so many areas where neither the old syllabus rules or the IDSF open rules do...

[Laura]

guys make up solution is fine.

Original rules ban glittery sprays and body glitter. why did you leave this restriction out?

Because I don't see why adults can't wear body glitter if they want! I'd have taken it out of the kids' rules but since they're already part and parcel of the IDSF rules I couldn't justify it.

[Another Elizabeth]

I'm concerned about the implications for ladies and for organizers of the combination of "any jewelry" and "no decorations on dresses". I don't want someone constructing a massive net of rhinestones that covers the whole torso and claiming it's a necklace, just because it's not attached to the dress. Not sure how to fix it, but I wanted to bring it up.

Also, I'm not sure that "elaborate high hairstyles" should be banned, rather than discouraged like excess makeup. Women who are blessed with long, thick hair may not be able to put it up at all without its being pretty darn high and elaborate (I'm remembering doing the hair for a beginner collegiate lady one year who had thick, curly hair that reached to her knees).

And the "short cut or long hair in ponytail" for men (and boys) - does a man who is growing out his hair have to abstain from competition during the period between when it starts getting long and when it is long enough to be held in a ponytail? How about "neatly groomed away from the face"? In fact, I think that should be sufficient for both sexes.

[Laura]

I guess I'm just not understanding why the new adult syllabus rules need to still have restrictions in so many areas where neither the old syllabus rules or the IDSF open rules do...

I left some of the restrictions in because I felt they better clarified the line between what is and isn't a costume -- for instance, the bit about shiny or glittery fabrics in syllabus. I kept customary practices in mind as seen in the local amateur and collegiate scene out here. Based on my own anecdotal knowlege, there is nothing that we have seen as appropriate in the past that would not allowed under the proposed re-write. Also, with some points I am throwing a bone to the more conservative members of the DanceSport council who actually did want the really awful rules that were just published to go into effect.

I think the best way to go about this is to take your issues on a point-by-point basis. That way we can discuss them and figure out which way to go.

[mamboqueen]

Hey, A/E...long time, no see!

[Laura]

I'm concerned about the implications for ladies and for organizers of the combination of "any jewelry" and "no decorations on dresses". I don't want someone constructing a massive net of rhinestones that covers the whole torso and claiming it's a necklace, just because it's not attached to the dress. Not sure how to fix it, but I wanted to bring it up.

Right, good point. I'm not sure either...anyone have any ideas?

Also, I'm not sure that "elaborate high hairstyles" should be banned, rather than discouraged like excess makeup. Women who are blessed with long, thick hair may not be able to put it up at all without its being pretty darn high and elaborate (I'm remembering doing the hair for a beginner collegiate lady one year who had thick, curly hair that reached to her knees).

Makes sense.

And the "short cut or long hair in ponytail" for men (and boys) - does a man who is growing out his hair have to abstain from competition during the period between when it starts getting long and when it is long enough to be held in a ponytail? How about "neatly groomed away from the face"? In fact, I think that should be sufficient for both sexes.

I think we need to stay in the neighborhood of the spirit of any related IDSF rules. Staying with that kind of language might also help this proposal actually be accepted. How about using what the IDSF says in the Latin rules:

Short hairstyle is preferred. If the hair is long it has to be worn in a ponytail.

That would cover the "hair not long enough to get into a ponytail" case. It uses the current IDSF language, is flexible enough to handle different people's hair, but still gives an official a way to tell a guy with really long hair flying all over the place to pull it back.

Oh man, I just realized the entire Standard section is missing from the IDSF Dress Code Rules (Singapore 2002). I know Chris mentioned it, but it's finally registered.

[Another Elizabeth]

Yes, I moved cross-country in January, and I didn't come back to the forum for a while. I'm living in the Seattle Eastside now.

[Another Elizabeth]

Short hairstyle is preferred. If the hair is long it has to be worn in a ponytail.

That would cover the "hair not long enough to get into a ponytail" case. It uses the current IDSF language, is flexible enough to handle different people's hair, but still gives an official a way to tell a guy with really long hair flying all over the place to pull it back.

How about "Short hairstyle is preferred, and hair should be neatly groomed away from the face. If the hair is long, it is to be worn in a ponytail." Then the intermediate length hair needs to be away from the face (e.g. with gel), and the really long hair goes in a ponytail. (Should a braid be allowed? I remember one man with very thick, long hair who used to braid it and pin the braid to the front of his shirt inside his vest so it didn't flap around for standard.)

For the jewelry problem, how about "Religious symbols may not be worn. Jewelry may include rhinestones, sequins, or gems, but should not be wider than 5 cm (2") in its narrowest dimension. No jewelry may be worn that may constitute a danger to competitors (including self)." (the actual size is certainly up for debate)

[Laura]

How about "Short hairstyle is preferred, and hair should be neatly groomed away from the face. If the hair is long, it is to be worn in a ponytail."

Sounds good. It's clearer and it still incorporates the original IDSF language.

As for braids...I see where you're coming from, and I also think we're starting to (ha ha ha) split hairs. After all, we're still talking about a braided ponytail here, not about a guy putting his hair up in in one of those "Heidi" style across the head braids :)

For the jewelry problem, how about "Religious symbols may not be worn. Jewelry may include rhinestones, sequins, or gems, but should not be wider than 5 cm (2") in its narrowest dimension. No jewelry may be worn that may constitute a danger to competitors (including self)." (the actual size is certainly up for debate)

I'm a little confused about this. If I put on a piece of jewelry that was 2" wide at its narrowest dimension, it could still be 5 feet wide at its widest?

[Another Elizabeth]

For the jewelry problem, how about "Religious symbols may not be worn. Jewelry may include rhinestones, sequins, or gems, but should not be wider than 5 cm (2") in its narrowest dimension. No jewelry may be worn that may constitute a danger to competitors (including self)." (the actual size is certainly up for debate)

I'm a little confused about this. If I put on a piece of jewelry that was 2" wide at its narrowest dimension, it could still be 5 feet wide at its widest?

Yes. So if it were a necklace, say, it could go around your neck and even hang down a ways, but it could only be 2" wide. So it would outlaw the big rhinestone net, but would allow a torc-style necklace or a bangle bracelet. Earrings could be moderately large, but not the big dinner-plate ones.

I'm just tossing it out as an idea - if people don't like it, I'm certainly not wedded to it. We could give discretion to the CoJ to determine that certain pieces of jewelry were excessive, but I hate to not provide guidance.

[Chris Stratton]

Well the rules didn't use to say much of anything about makeup, hair, shoes, etc for adults. Is there any real need for them to do so now?

In terms of specific allowable costumes of the past now banned, the syllabus tuxedo would be the primary example. Yes, they are rare - but there are a few senior competitors who spent serious money on theirs, as this used to be not only the allowed costume but the one actually recommended by the rules. There's still a mindset that shirt sleeves constitute being under-dressed, and I think it would be good to honor that. (This is also the source of my main objection to the IDSF inspired junior rules - the quest for uniformity means that children must dress in a way that looks seriously 'immature' with short skirts rather than simply any relatively simple way that looks age-appropriate)

And while the religious symbols thing comes from the IDSF, it's also potentially very explosive. The collegiate community is diverse enough that there are those with religion-inspired dress that they will not lightly remove. Imagine an article of clothing or headgear that is a very obvious religious symbol, standing for amongst other things, modesty. Are we going to tell someone they have to remove that and feel indecent, while writing the modesty standards of other traditions right into the rules?

[robin]

Someone asked about dress-codes from elsewhere. At UK universities, we've ended up being farily liberal with "non-competitive dress", and the idea is that it stops people from getting an advantage through buying expensive outfits, but leaves most of the rest to the dancers. The current rules are:


3.16 Dress Code
3.16.1 Non-competitive dress shall not allow items specifically designed for competitive dancing.
3.16.2 It shall allow practice-wear.
3.16.3 The following items are allowed (this takes precedence over 3.16.1 in cases where both apply):

Modern:
Men: Plain dark trousers, plain shirts, ties or bow ties, waistcoats
Ladies: Plain skirts or trousers, tops without excessive adornment, dresses

Latin:
Men: Plain dark trousers or latin trousers, plain or ruffled shirts or t-shirts, plain latin tops (no transparent material), ties or bow ties, waistcoats.
Ladies: Plain skirts or trousers, tops without excessive adornment, dresses
Plain is defined as meaning unpatterned or having a small single or repeating motif.


So basiscally, anything you can buy on the high-street is allowed, plus undecorated practice-wear. This seems to work fairly well. We couldn't care less what hairstyle, make-up or jewellery people wear...

[Another Elizabeth]

Chris, remember that the religious symbol language only applies to jewelry. I don't think that anyone would argue that a headscarf or a yarmulke is jewelry. At worst, it might mean that you couldn't wear a jeweled one, which doesn't seem like a problematic restriction to me.

The proposed no-false-hair rule would be more potentially explosive, in my opinion. USA Dance doesn't want to get sued under the ADA by someone in chemo, or by an orthodox Jewish woman who wears wigs outside the home.

[Laura]

Well the rules didn't use to say much of anything about makeup, hair, shoes, etc for adults. Is there any real need for them to do so now?

I feel that as I have re-written things, there are basically no restrictions. I just left the black thing in for the men's shoes so that guys wouldn't be turning up in bright blue lycra shoes, for instance. I could take out the enumeration of material and just leave in the specification of color. That way guys could wear black canvas jazz shoes or those cloth-based latin shoes that I see some men practice in.

I feel okay about specifying what is there because it structures the adult syllabus section the same as the other sections.

In terms of specific allowable costumes of the past now banned, the syllabus tuxedo would be the primary example. Yes, they are rare - but there are a few senior competitors who spent serious money on theirs, as this used to be not only the allowed costume but the one actually recommended by the rules. There's still a mindset that shirt sleeves constitute being under-dressed, and I think it would be good to honor that.

Good point.

And while the religious symbols thing comes from the IDSF, it's also potentially very explosive. The collegiate community is diverse enough that there are those with religion-inspired dress that they will not lightly remove. Imagine an article of clothing or headgear that is a very obvious religious symbol, standing for amongst other things, modesty. Are we going to tell someone they have to remove that and feel indecent, while writing the modesty standards of other traditions right into the rules?

The rule specifically referrs to jewelry, not to head coverings such as yamulkas or hijabs. Can you give me an example of an actual piece of jewelry that someone would not remove? A specific example would help argue this point.

[Laura]

The proposed no-false-hair rule would be more potentially explosive, in my opinion. USA Dance doesn't want to get sued under the ADA by someone in chemo, or by an orthodox Jewish woman who wears wigs outside the home.

I think the no-fake-hair rule is stupid on MANY levels, and have left it out of the proposed rewrite.

[Another Elizabeth]

The proposed no-false-hair rule would be more potentially explosive, in my opinion. USA Dance doesn't want to get sued under the ADA by someone in chemo, or by an orthodox Jewish woman who wears wigs outside the home.

I think the no-fake-hair rule is stupid on MANY levels, and have left it out of the proposed rewrite.

I agree - I'm just providing some more ammo for the position.

[Laura]

Thanks! This has all been very good.

[Laura]

Okay, I went a little nutty with the open-level rules for Youths/Adults/Seniors. I gave Smooth and Rhythm a little more leeway, since they aren't under IDSF jurisdiction. My next post will have this last set of rules. Comment away!

[Laura]

3.10.4.2. All dance styles. All Novice, Pre-Championship, Championship, and World Class proficiency categories.
3.10.4.2.1. Men
3.10.4.2.1.1. Costume: Latin: Black or midnight blue trousers (no transparent materials); any color shirt except flesh color. No sleeveless shirts. Shirt may be open to the bottom of the breastbone and must be worn tucked in. [I really want to take out the tucked in thing, but it’s in the IDSF rules. – LLL] Optional vest, jacket, or bolero jacket allowed in the same color as the trousers. Tie, bow tie, or scarf optional.
Rhythm: Dark trousers (no transparent materials); any color shirt except flesh color. No sleeveless shirts. Shirt may be open to the bottom of the breastbone and may be worn untucked if desired. Optional vest, jacket, or bolero jacket allowed in the same color as the trousers. Tie, bow tie, or scarf optional.
Standard: Black or midnight blue tail suit with all accessories (dress shirt, bow tie, studs, etc.)
Smooth: Dark tail suit with all accessories (dress shirt, etc.). A vest or jacket may optionally be worn in place of a tailcoat.
3.10.4.2.1.2. Decoration: No restrictions. Transparent material may be used, but may not cover more than 25% of the costume.
3.10.4.2.1.3. Shoes: No restrictions.
3.10.4.2.1.4. Hairstyle: Short hairstyle is preferred, and hair should be neatly groomed away from the face. If the hair is long, it must be worn in a ponytail.
3.10.4.2.1.5. Makeup: No restrictions.
3.10.4.2.1.5. Jewelry: No restrictions, except that religious symbols may not be worn. No jewelry may be worn that may constitute a danger to competitors (including self).
3.10.4.2.2. Ladies
3.10.4.2.2.1. Costume: Latin/Rhythm: Competition dress. Any color allowed except for flesh-tone, panties must be black or match dress color, areas between the hip line and the panty line as well as the breast area must be covered completely with opaque material (see Figure 2 – Regulation Costume Diagram, below), no high cut panties, tangas, thongs, cuts below the hip line or transparent inserts in the panties. Panties must be covered completely by the skirt when standing. Tops of two pieces dresses must not be a bra only.
Standard/Smooth: Competition dress. Any color allowed except for flesh-tone, no transparent materials in the breast area or between the waist and the panty line. Necklines and back openings must not expose the breast and/or panty area (see Figure 2—Regulation Costume Diagram). No two-piece dresses exposing the midriff in Standard. If desired the skirt may be slit no higher than the knee in Standard. Skirts in Smooth may be slit to the thigh, but the panties must not show when standing.
3.10.4.2.2.2. Decorations: No restrictions.
3.10.4.2.2.3. Shoes: No restrictions.
3.10.4.2.2.4. Makeup: No restrictions.
3.10.4.2.2.5. Jewelry: No restrictions except that religious symbols may not be worn. No jewelry may be worn that may constitute a danger to competitors (including self).

[Chris Stratton]

A guy I know invested in an all white outfit for latin: shoes, trousers, shirt. Should that be disallowed? He happens to be black, and as a result the costume makes a really nice contrast. And no, it doesn't look like a catsuit.

[Laura]

Yeah, I know some local open-level Latin dancers who have appeared in all white. Again, I was just trying to keep to the original IDSF rules. Right now IDSF says black and midnight blue. If I haven't mentioned it already on my post about IDSF fetishes, I'll add the question about color....

[pygmalion]

Why only black and midnight blue? What about charcoal gray(or other dark colors?) I ask because a former coach had competition wear in dark gray. Why is that not okay?

[Laura]

Good question! I've been adding questions like this over to the thread Turtle started, since that's where most of my rantings are posted :)

I wonder if we'll ever get these all answered. Maybe I can find our old friend Peter Pover, who used to be on the IDSF Presidium, and ask him. He used to hang out over on that other dance board. Maybe at some point I should just pick up our whole pile of questions and dump them over there.

[Another Elizabeth]

Since they're spread throughout the thread, here's a summary of the current state of the rewrite. I made the boys' hairstyle entries match the mens', since they have the same issue about what to do while they're growing their hair out, and we agreed that the language is basically in tune with the IDSF requirements. There hasn't been any commentary yet on my proposal for limiting the minimum dimension of jewelry to 2" in syllabus, so I didn't add that.

3.10.1. PRE-TEENS:
The rules for Pre-Teens are intended to conform to current International DanceSport Federation (IDSF) rules for the Juvenile age group.
3.10.1.1. All dance styles and proficiency categories
3.10.1.1.1. Boys
3.10.1.1.1.1. Costume: Black trousers (underfoot strap optional), optional black belt, black socks, plain white long sleeve shirt (no shiny or patterned materials, no wing collar, no rolled up sleeves, must be worn tucked in), and optional black tie or bow tie (metallic tie clip allowed).
3.10.1.1.2. Decoration: None.
3.10.1.1.1.3. Shoes: Black leather, suede or patent leather, low heel (maximum heel height 2cm (3/4”).
3.10.1.1.1.4. Hairstyle: Short hairstyle is preferred, and hair should be neatly groomed away from the face. If the hair is long, it must be worn in a ponytail.
3.10.1.1.1.5. Makeup: None (no artificial tan).
3.10.1.1.1.6. Jewelry: None.
3.10.1.1.2. Girls
3.10.1.1.2.1. Costume: Black skirt and white shirt, blouse, leotard, or t-shirt; leotard with attached same-color skirt; or simple one-color dress with same color panties (must cover underwear). Skirt is plain or pleated, made of one to a maximum of three half-circles, one simple circular underskirt is allowed. No frills or ruffles on the skirt or underskirt. Any single color is allowed except flesh-toned; no metallic or transparent materials; no boning, soft boning or fishing line allowed in skirt hem. Minimum skirt length is 10cm / 4" above the knee cap, maximum skirt length is just below the knee cap (see Figure 1 – Regulation Costume Diagrams, below). Short socks may be any color, skin colored tights allowed, no mesh or fishnet tights.
3.10.1.1.2.2. Decoration: None (no rhinestones, no feathers, no flowers, no bows, no fringe, no lace applications, no beads, no pearls, no sequins, etc.)
3.10.1.1.2.3. Shoes: Any color block (square) heel shoe (maximum height 3.5cm (1¼”).
3.10.1.1.2.4. Hairstyle: No artificial hair, no hair ornaments, no colored hair spray, no glitter, no elaborate high hair styles.
3.10.1.1.2.5. Makeup: None (no artificial eye lashes, no artificial nails, no artificial tan, no nail polish, no glitter).
3.10.1.1.2.6. Jewelry: None (no bracelets, no rings, no necklaces, no earrings).

3.10.2. JUNIOR I:
The rules for Junior I are intended to conform to current International DanceSport Federation (IDSF) rules for the Junior I age group.
3.10.2.1. All dance styles and proficiency categories
3.10.2.1.1. Boys
3.10.2.1.1.1. Costume: Black or midnight blue trousers (underfoot strap optional), optional black belt, black socks, white long sleeve shirt (no shiny or patterned materials, no wing collar, no rolled up sleeves, must be worn tucked in), optional black or midnight blue vest, and optional black tie or bow tie (metallic tie clip allowed). White dress shirt, white bow tie, and cufflinks are allowed in Standard/Smooth.
3.10.2.1.1.2. Decoration: None.
3.10.2.1.1.3. Shoes: Black leather, suede or patent leather, low heel (maximum heel height 2cm / 3/4”).
3.10.2.1.1.4. Hairstyle: Short hairstyle is preferred, and hair should be neatly groomed away from the face. If the hair is long, it must be worn in a ponytail.
3.10.2.1.1.5. Makeup: None (no artificial tan).
3.10.2.1.1.6. Jewelry: None, except for one plain gold or silver ¼” round post per ear (no rhinestones, no glitter, no sequins, no bracelets, no rings, no necklaces, no visible body piercing).
3.10.2.1.2. Girls
3.10.2.1.2.1. Costume: Competition dress. Any color allowed except for flesh-toned; no metallic, transparent, sequin or glitter materials allowed (see Figure 2 below). Panties must be the same color as the dress. No short socks, no mesh or fishnet tights.
3.10.2.1.2.2. Decoration: No rhinestones, no feathers, no bows, no beads, no pearls, no sequins, etc.
3.10.2.1.2.3. Shoes: Cuban or slim heel shoe (maximum heel height 5cm / 2”).
3.10.2.1.2.4. Hairstyle: no artificial hair, no hair ornaments, no colored hair spray, no glitter, no elaborate high hair styles.
3.10.2.1.2.5. Makeup: None (no artificial eye lashes, no artificial nails, no artificial tan, no nail polish, no glitter).
3.10.2.1.2.6. Jewelry: None, except for one plain gold or silver ¼” round post per ear (no rhinestones, no glitter, no sequins, no bracelets, no rings, no necklaces, no visible body piercing).

3.10.3. JUNIOR II:
3.10.3.1.1. Boys:
3.10.3.1.1.1. Same as Junior I for syllabus and Novice proficiency levels.
3.10.3.1.1.2. Same as Junior I or Adult for Pre-Championship and higher proficiency levels.
3.10.3.1.2. Girls:
3.10.3.1.2.1. Same as Junior I for syllabus and Novice proficiency levels.
3.10.3.1.2.2. Same as Junior I or Adult for Pre-Championship and higher proficiency levels.

3.10.4. YOUTHS, ADULTS, AND SENIORS:
3.10.4.1. All dance styles. All syllabus proficiency categories.
The purpose of these syllabus dress code rules is to create an environment friendly to newcomers and lower-level competitors by keeping the focus on the dancing rather than on excessive grooming and costly elaborate costuming.
3.10.4.1.1. Men
3.10.4.1.1.1 Costume: Dark dress pants (underfoot strap optional). Dress shirt for Standard/Smooth, dress shirt or plain short or long sleeved shirt for Latin/Rhythm. No shiny or patterned materials (except stripes) are allowed, no rolled up sleeves, shirt must be worn tucked in. Optional tuxedo jacket (short jacket, not a tailcoat) or vest in black or to match pants. Optional cardigan sweater for Standard/Smooth in black or to match pants. Optional tie or bow tie (metallic tie clip allowed). Cufflinks are allowed.
3.10.4.1.1.2. Decoration: None.
3.10.4.1.1.3. Shoes: Black shoes suitable for dancing.
3.10.4.1.1.4. Hairstyle: Short hairstyle is preferred, and hair should be neatly groomed away from the face. If the hair is long, it must be worn in a ponytail.
3.10.4.1.1.5. Makeup: May wear minimal makeup, including artificial tan.
3.10.4.1.1.6. Jewelry: No restrictions except that religious symbols may not be worn. No jewelry may be worn that may constitute a danger to competitors (including self).
3.10.4.1.2. Women
3.10.4.1.2.1. Costume: Skirt and shirt, blouse, bodysuit, leotard, or t-shirt. Simple undecorated cocktail-style dress or dance dress. Any color is allowed except flesh-toned; no metallic, transparent, sequin, or glitter materials allowed; no boning or fishing line allowed in skirt hem.
3.10.4.1.2.2. Decoration: None (no rhinestones, no feathers, no bows, no beads, no pearls, no sequins, etc.)
3.10.4.1.2.3. Shoes: No restrictions.
3.10.4.1.2.4. Hairstyle: No restrictions. Elaborate high hair styles are not desirable.
3.10.4.1.2.5. Makeup: No restrictions. Excessive makeup is not desirable.
3.10.4.1.2.6. Jewelry: No restrictions except that religious symbols may not be worn. No jewelry may be worn that may constitute a danger to competitors (including self).

3.10.4.2. All dance styles. All Novice, Pre-Championship, Championship, and World Class proficiency categories.
3.10.4.2.1. Men
3.10.4.2.1.1. Costume: Latin: Black or midnight blue trousers (no transparent materials); any color shirt except flesh color. No sleeveless shirts. Shirt may be open to the bottom of the breastbone and must be worn tucked in. Optional vest, jacket, or bolero jacket allowed in the same color as the trousers. Tie, bow tie, or scarf optional.
Rhythm: Dark trousers (no transparent materials); any color shirt except flesh color. No sleeveless shirts. Shirt may be open to the bottom of the breastbone and may be worn untucked if desired. Optional vest, jacket, or bolero jacket allowed in the same color as the trousers. Tie, bow tie, or scarf optional.
Standard: Black or midnight blue tail suit with all accessories (dress shirt, bow tie, studs, etc.)
Smooth: Dark tail suit with all accessories (dress shirt, etc.). A vest or jacket may optionally be worn in place of a tailcoat.
3.10.4.2.1.2. Decoration: No restrictions. Transparent material may be used, but may not cover more than 25% of the costume.
3.10.4.2.1.3. Shoes: No restrictions.
3.10.4.2.1.4. Hairstyle: Short hairstyle is preferred, and hair should be neatly groomed away from the face. If the hair is long, it must be worn in a ponytail.
3.10.4.2.1.5. Makeup: No restrictions.
3.10.4.2.1.5. Jewelry: No restrictions, except that religious symbols may not be worn. No jewelry may be worn that may constitute a danger to competitors (including self).
3.10.4.2.2. Ladies
3.10.4.2.2.1. Costume: Latin/Rhythm: Competition dress. Any color allowed except for flesh-tone, panties must be black or match dress color, areas between the hip line and the panty line as well as the breast area must be covered completely with opaque material (see Figure 2 – Regulation Costume Diagram, below), no high cut panties, tangas, thongs, cuts below the hip line or transparent inserts in the panties. Panties must be covered completely by the skirt when standing. Tops of two pieces dresses must not be a bra only.
Standard/Smooth: Competition dress. Any color allowed except for flesh-tone, no transparent materials in the breast area or between the waist and the panty line. Necklines and back openings must not expose the breast and/or panty area (see Figure 2—Regulation Costume Diagram). No two-piece dresses exposing the midriff in Standard. If desired the skirt may be slit no higher than the knee in Standard. Skirts in Smooth may be slit to the thigh, but the panties must not show when standing.
3.10.4.2.2.2. Decorations: No restrictions.
3.10.4.2.2.3. Shoes: No restrictions.
3.10.4.2.2.4. Makeup: No restrictions.
3.10.4.2.2.5. Jewelry: No restrictions except that religious symbols may not be worn. No jewelry may be worn that may constitute a danger to competitors (including self).

[DancingMommy]

One thing to think on -

Easily obtainable "Character" skirts that are inexpensive and appropriate for syllabus DO have a simple ruffle on the bottom. I understand the need to conform to IDSF but shouldn't this be taken into consideration? Character skirts are MUCH easier to get than a "plain one half to one and one half circle skirt".

[Chris Stratton]

Perhaps I'll bring a serger configured for a simple rolled hem to the first post-enactment comp and make a few bucks unruffling...

[DancingMommy]

HAHAHAHAH I think it is HYSTERICAL the NO ruffle rule. Those character skirts are available just about anywhere ballet shoes are sold and they are WAY cheaper than anything designed strictly for ballroom. And last i checked, the little girls' section at Target and Wal-mart had more tart-wear than a ballroom competition....

[tbrennen]

OK. USA Dance made a pretty big mistake in the
Youth, Adult, & Senior syllabus dress code. There
is no question about that and we admit it. If you go
to the website, you will find that the rules for the
dress code are exactly the same as last published
EXCEPT for the syllabus;

The syllabus Youth, Adult, & Senior dress code is going to be rewritten.

I have read all your comments, suggestions, rewrites,
reasoning(s), etc. and I can safely say that you are all
fantastically constructive and I hope that a full synthesis
of what you have generated (thank you, Laura and all!)
is reflected in the rules that finally come out.

If you have more comments you would like to make, please do so.
They will be read.

[tbrennen]

One of the primary reasons for the restrictions for syllabus dress is the cost issue. The more elaborate clothing in dancesport usually costs much more and it is our goal to be inclusive, not a sport only for those who can afford flashy expensive costumes. Syllabus is the start for most and simple wear restrictions help all participate without, hopefully, outlandish cost or intimidation by those who do have full competition dress.

The religious issue is much more interesting. Recently, I was made aware that our interpretation of the IDSF rules with regard to religious symbols, jewelry, etc is not necessarily the same as the IDSF interpretation. We will have to talk to the IDSF further. Regardless of the results of that inquiry, the U.S. is a different place and we will have to form our rules in accordance with precedent (say, skating) and custom.

[Laura]

AE: Thanks for pulling together the various sections into one post.

HAHAHAHAH I think it is HYSTERICAL the NO ruffle rule. Those character skirts are available just about anywhere ballet shoes are sold and they are WAY cheaper than anything designed strictly for ballroom. And last i checked, the little girls' section at Target and Wal-mart had more tart-wear than a ballroom competition....

I added the word "ruffle" in the little girls' rules because I'm pretty sure it's the American-English synonym for "frill" and I didn't want other American-English speakers to just pass over frill and assume that ruffles are okay. I could be wrong, though. Maybe someone who can speak UK-English can clarify?

Anyway, assuming that I'm correct in thinking that ruffle == frill, it's some damn IDSF rule that I don't understand but had to pick up anyway. Personally, I always thought ruffles were part and parcel of little girls' clothing.

I'm starting to imagine that sitting in on the original IDSF meeting that came up with the IDSF rules might have been rather amusing....

[DancingMommy]

The religious issue is much more interesting. Recently, I was made aware that our interpretation of the IDSF rules with regard to religious symbols, jewelry, etc is not necessarily the same as the IDSF interpretation. We will have to talk to the IDSF further. Regardless of the results of that inquiry, the U.S. is a different place and we will have to form our rules in accordance with precedent (say, skating) and custom.

It is interesting. My husband wears this monster sized cross that was a gift from his grandmother. It isn't removable. It's permanently closed around his neck AND is made of 24K red gold. We'd be really upset if we had to break the chain to take it off and THEN have it "go missing", kwim?

I'd think that a no *visible* religious *jewelry* would be fine, but make a provision for those who have religious mandate they must follow with regard to dress.

[Another Elizabeth]

OK. USA Dance made a pretty big mistake in the Youth, Adult, & Senior syllabus dress code. There is no question about that and we admit it.
Thank you, Turtle. It's tough to admit a mistake, and I for one appreciate your simply being up front about it.

[Laura]

DM, the issue of religious symbols is problematic and, because of US laws (including the Constitution) and long-standing cultural customs, may have to be treated differently than the IDSF rules. This isn't just a matter of pant color...it crosses into people's legal rights in this country. The IDSF rules were written in Europe where the laws and culture are different (think of the whole French thing about banning Muslim girls' hijabs in public schools -- that would NEVER go over in the US).

I agree that "no *visible*" is a much better way of writing it. Actually, the best way of writing it would be to just ignore the whole thing, and leave it at just saying that the jewelry must not pose a saftey threat.

[Chris Stratton]

It's pretty clear that any IDSF or USA Dance rule that contradicted local law would be unenforceable if someone wanted to take the issue far enough; however the US Consititution primarily constrains the government rather than private organizations. Unless the Ted Stevens Amateur Sports Act --> USIOC --> USA Dance connection looks strong enough to give the organization some color of government authority, I think it would be under the much looser class of restrictions on private organizations.

For example though: isn't there some state where pros and amateurs legally have the right to enter each other's comps?

[randomMysh]

Here's a random question: what's up with the anti-fleshtone rules? I can understand it on little girls, but it's still in the rules for adult Open...I've seen some utterly gorgeous skintone Latin dresses a couple of years back. They looked like a natural extension of the body with lots of stoning on top and everything was covered. In any case, they were "natural" fleshtone, which looks very different when you tan (which people tend to to at that level). So I don't understand why not? And if you're going to have that rule, what flesh tone do you go by?

[spatten]

I am a little confused by the purpose of the restriction against "religious symbols" in jewelry.

Is the purpose to indicate that the organizations involved do not want any indication of supporting a particular religion? Or is it to "protect" people from being offended by symbols which the dancers wear? Or are they trying to say that religion has no place in dancing? These are the only ideas I have come up with.

I would severly question a rule which would allow a symbol of something as infamous as say National Socialism but disallows a symbol of something like Islam or Christianity.

I suggest either a rule against any symbols - or perhaps more apporiate - no rule against any symbols.

[Chris Stratton]

I guess I'm assuming it's to prevent anything that even hints at religious preference being a visible factor that could influence judging. Does the IDSF rule perhaps descend from an IOC rule?

[Laura]

Actually, I think it's tied to European things like the secularity laws in France that prohibit people from wearing religious headgear to publically-funded schools. After all, the IDSF is based in Europe and several of the senior powers-that-be are Swiss and German.

[robin]

You can wear whatever you like to schools in Germany, be it religious or not. There certainly are fewer dress restrictions in Germany than the US! (I went to a US high-school and was told to change because my t-shirt had a joke on it which "promoted the use of intoxitaing beverages", apparently...)

Anyway, I have no idea where this IDSF rule comes from, though I would imagine it is a case of preventing competitors from using competitions as a political / religious platform. I don't know what the rules at the olympics are, but I can't remember seeing anyone wear any large religious symbols (maybe a small cross on a chain...)

[Laura]

Heh, check out some of the figure skaters next time....

(I agree that the IDSF rule is kind of silly.)

[callen]

If you go to the website, you will find that the rules for the dress code are exactly the same as last published EXCEPT for the syllabus;

So I have to get a whole new outfit made for smooth before the next USA Dance competition I do just because my vest suit is charcoal gray instead of black or midnight blue? Ouch. At times we have cut back on lessons because we cannot afford them; paying for rent and school take priority. As a new outfit will cost as much as half our lessons from now through nationals, my gut's not feeling too good at the moment.

I can understand a rule for the colors allowed in standard because of the need to conform to IDSF rules. However, applying such a rule to smooth, where the man's outfit is so frequently not black or midnight blue and commonly has colors to match the woman's outfit, surprises me. Honestly, it seems either like laziness (Maybe they figured they'd just lump smooth and standard together to make it easier.) or pettiness (I know of some among the powers that be who seem to have a grudge against smooth.) on someone's part to me.

I figure I probably sound angry. Really, I'm just tired of having to deal with so many issues. Last summer I wasted most of several days just trying to explain the USABDA rules to a USABDA official who was denying us entry to nationals simply because that person didn't know the rules. In an attempt to remain positive I suggested the creation of this thread. I generally prefer being proactive. Laura took off with it and has done a beautiful job both on her own and at incorporating others' ideas. I'm also happy that Turtle takes the time and makes the effort to listen, has a very good idea what's going on in the dancing world, and has some pull among the upper echelons of USA Dance. Of course, I think I'm preaching to the choir, especially with at least half of last year's smooth finalist couples represented on this forum.

Christopher

[Laura]

I can understand a rule for the colors allowed in standard because of the need to conform to IDSF rules. However, applying such a rule to smooth, where the man's outfit is so frequently not black or midnight blue and commonly has colors to match the woman's outfit, surprises me.

I too would like to fully understand the reasoning on this, because I totally understand your argument! I did talk to Turtle about this one afternoon, but the truth is I was so angry and upset that I don't recall what he told me. D'oh!

[robin]

I don't think there is any need for national federations to be as strict (or even stricter) than the IDSF. I actually like charcoal tailsuits, and even slightly lighter shades of gray, and I don't see any reason why we should insist on uniformity...

I've seen a number of people in gray tailsuit at comps in the UK at all levels, for example this colour:
http://www.dancesportinfo.net/Pictures/GalleryThumbs/dancesportInfo/2_18620_1426_6234_DSC_5343.jpg

[Porfirio Landeros]

So I have to get a whole new outfit made for smooth before the next USA Dance competition I do just because my vest suit is charcoal gray instead of black or midnight blue?Don't get anything new made if you're happy with your charcoal gray... I've got your back ;) We can stage a strike at the on-deck area :twisted:

[pygmalion]

:lol: :lol:

[Joe]

Learn to sew, Chris! :)

[tbrennen]

I sew! But not well enough for a new Smooth outfit.

I'm working on the people in USA Dance with regards to the comments made here. Hang in there.

[SDsalsaguy]

I'm working on the people in USA Dance with regards to the comments made here. Hang in there.
Thanks for all your ongoing efforts!