Socialized Dancing

[Black Sheep]

For Dance Teacher Only,
I received an enlightening Email from Dormouse. The follow is a COMPLETE paragraph from her Email:

Joe "As to criticizing me or anyone else... EVERY single post that
has been moderated was done so because of personal attacks.
Think about that for a minute."
Dormouse, fpor your edification, All these posts of mine you refer to that were, 'moderated' were in defense of mis quotes made of my posts and disagreements with one single Moderator. None of these 'moderated' posts were 'personal attacks'. I keep a record of all my posts
before I place then on the forum, so if need be, I can produce these posts
that were 'moderated' in their original text
More Important Subject!
Several times I have suggested 'dance lessons, like all education, should be free to the public'. and no one even responded to this socialized concept being applied to all dancing.
Let me be my own 'Devil's Advocate' and give the negatives
"How will the professional dance teachers earn their money? Socializing
leads to bureaucratic control that could discourage creative teaching;
People who get something for nothing don't appreciate it. When something is free, it loses its value in the eyes of the public. What will happen to the thousands off dance studio owners? Where would all the unemployed teachers find jobs? Why fix something that ain't broke? Socialized dancing! Isn't that Communistic? And last but not least, where will the support come from and the financing to provide free dance lessons, and besides free dance lessons are already being given at many Venues.
Now there may be a few more negatives against this concept of
institutionalization of public dancing, but let me suggest how these
negatives can be negated:
Of course I have a story that illustrates and supports my 'Concept of free
dancing for the masses.
About 1956, a neighboring Lonely Hearts Club in the 300 North Western Ave. block, called me on the phone and negotiated for me to teach a Ballroom dance class to her clients every Thursday evening for a couple of hours. My fee was $35.00 for the evening, in today's dollars that was equivalent to $350.00. Not bad for a three block walk and a two hour visit
Northrop Aviation hired me to teach once a week from 6-8 for $85.00 ($850) per class.
The L.A. Unified school system hired me as an itinary teacher to set up dance programs in 49 Jr. High Schools, from 1-5 Monday to Friday at $360.00 per week.
There were night clubs, ballrooms, Ciro' night Club on the Sunset Strip,
private clubs and even occasional classes at Beverly hills and Bel Aire
homes and at the Beverly Hill Hotel itself. Plus my movie work. and a lot of people got a lot of free lessons and I made more money than I had time to count.
Free lessons stimulate the businesses for everyone and I have a saying,
"Teach the masses dancing and war will become obsolete"

List of organizations to offer your dance teaching services:
1) Hospitals for therapeutic affects;
2) Senior Citizen organizations;
3) Malls to stimulate business';
4) public schools;
5) Churches;
5) Industrial complexes for employees' health and recreation;
6) Night clubs to stimulate business on off nights,
7) Community Centers.

Black Sheep, 'If I could do it, so can you'.

[d nice]

Excellent ideas Joe. I do all of those as well as teach at risk youth in inner city schools, and community centers. This dance was created in the black communities and I'd like to see that those kids doing hip hop today had some understanding where so many of those moves came from.

BTW... Just incase you can't tell from my photo Joe. I'm a guy. Yes I'm a metrosexual... but I am still a guy.

[Black Sheep]

d'nice,
We finally found a common bonding.
Three years ago I was telling Venue hosts to give free Lessons, as a way of creating a larger Swing population to patronize their dances. At least one of those venue hosts who I had preaching free lessons to ad finitum, had to close last year because they couldn't draw the crowds anymore. I made the statement on Margie Kate's forum and to my couple of hundred private list of readers, "The venue hosts Like to milk the cow but do not want to buy the hey".
I hope, D'nice that you can get I am doing what I can to increase the Swing population and everyone will benefit. Giving free lessons up front doesn't mean a lose of revenue. The more enthused students running around, the greater percentage of beginners looking to advance themselves with Private lessons at any reasonable price, and venues will prosper, and DuVal gets to sell more shoes. So it's a win win game. I am encouraged that we are of the same mind on this most important agenda.
I hope other dance teachers can see the long view and maybe Dance teachers can become a political force to have DANCE along with the other performining arts included in the school curriculums, and persuade the schools to hire teachers with or without these B.A. degrees which too often keep too many really qualified teachers out of the Public School System, like Frankie Manning and Dean Collins.
Black Sheep "Teach the masses dancing and war will become obsolete!" Joe Lanza 2003 a.d.
P.S. I know you are a guy D'nice, but do not get the meaning of your
last line??

[d nice]

Mynext foray is helping out a friend who is an RA for one of the biggest dorms at UCD. They have to have a certain amount of soical and educational programs they run a semester. So my friend Scott and I are going to kill two birds with one stone.

I'm going to do a class teaching the dance and stick some great facts about the history of the dance, and he is going to DJ a dance after.

Scott is the resident DJ at the Davis Graduate, the local sports-bar/night-club in the area, stumbling distance from the dorms, which does a swing night once a week.

This will increase the numbers at his club and the numbers at my studio in begining swing classes.

It funny you had resistance about free lessons before a dance... every club up here does that, salsa, west coast, lindy, even the tango clubs.

[Black Sheep]

D'nice'
Must I correct you once more without seeming caustic?

D'nice wrote:
"funny (you) had resistance about free lessons before a dance... every club up here does that, salsa, west coast, lindy, even the tango clubs."

D'nice, your statement categorically reads, 'that I had resistance to free lessons'
I have never had resistance to free lessons ever; I gave free lessons in 15 or 20 clubs in the 1950's and I even now give private lessons for free including choreographing routines and refusing money or gifts. And I even do turn down paying students and instead recommend other teachers.
So please do not try to define me as having ever been against free dance lessons. My reason? Partially because of the countless ballroom dance lessons I received in my life, including those from Dean Collins. I NEVER PAID FOR A SINGLE BALLROOM DANCE LESSON IN MY LIFE! In fact, Frank Veloz paid me $20.00 ($200.00 in today's equivalent) a week for eight weeks to go through his training program. And Jean Phelps Veloz was present to verify that pay.

D'nice, You just has to sneak in the double entendre, didn't you?

Black Sheep, 'Dance Lessons like all Education should be Free'. Joe Lanza 2003 a.d.

[Swing Kitten]

Joe Joe Joe Joe

I am very certain that he meant that you experienced resistance from the clubs that you approached. That is the way I read it and it makes much more sense in the context. ... that you had a hard time trying to convince the clubs to give free lessons before their dances.

I know how you are often automatically defensive and sensitive to what d nice has to say but let me assure you that it clearly does not mean what you say it does. I understand how it might seem to you to be a cut when you're expecting one at any moment... but try reading it again in the way I have described... doesn't that make sense in the context of the conversation?

We all know how direct d nice is. If he was rebuting your comments certainly we would all know it without much question... from what I've seen, d nice does not rely on ambiguity.

[Black Sheep]

Swingkitten,
I can see the double meaning, and I can see how you read it positively. But given D'nice's track record of past negative comments on my commentaries I see both meanings, the positive and the negative. And that double meaning is a sophisticated level of discussion that falls in a class called 'Double Entendre' which D'nice has used a few times before. I would very much like to believe he meant it in a positive way, but the many disagreeable Emails and contentious personal messages I have received from him makes it almost impossible to believe he suddenly changed like a chameleon overnight in his negative comments on almost every commentary I post besides his tendency to mis quote me and deride my suggestion every chance he gets.
I was hoping we could agree on this Free Dance lesson agenda. It would be a great boost if we all could put our differences aside and see the importance of reviving the diminishing Swing population. Last night, Thursdays at the Lindy Groove I had a discussion with a regular Venue patron and dance instructress, and she expressed her observation and concern over the diminishing swing crowds. I saw this phenomenon happen before in the 1960's; Chain dance studios died suddenly within one year, 1960. My HDC lasted until 1962, when I sold it. There is a Thread I posted on this forum titled 'deja vu' where I discuss this subject quite thoroughly. I do not think it has to happen again if we all pitch in and do a massive teaching and public relations job.
I am not what you describe me as; I always see the big picture and petty differences fall away from me like dandruff which I don't have.
D'nice happens to be an excellent communicator, Yet he seems to be unable to express himself in a clear unmistakable specific manner that doesn't leave room for doubting his real thought! And I get to be the guy who, 'Joe, Joe, Joe'.

Black Sheep

[d nice]

D'nice'
Must I correct you once more without seeming caustic?

D'nice wrote:
"funny (you) had resistance about free lessons before a dance... every club up here does that, salsa, west coast, lindy, even the tango clubs."

D'nice, your statement categorically reads, 'that I had resistance to free lessons'.

My bad Joe... I thought it was obvious that the resistance I was refering to was the club owners/managers felt by you. Anyone with the reading comprehension of a third grader caught that in your post. I didn't feel it was necessary to reference the entire paragraph since everyone knew what you were talking about.

Instead of just taking a knee-jerk reaction to things I say, and seeing any gray as black, try giving the benefit of the doubt and asking for clarification, before attacking or assuming attack. (BTW the use of black here is not intended to be taken as a double entrendre implying that you take your position about me based on my race, it is just a turn of phrase)

I am not a chameleon... what I used was not double entendre. I only use that when I'm discussing "off color" topics like sex... though I prefer the more difficult art-form of the single-entendre. What you experienced before was satire, irony, sarcasm etc.

If necessasary I could provide a detailed comparison and contrasting set of examples and have Barry Crimmins come and point out the differences, if this would meet your approval.

(this post by the way was an example of sarcasm, see the difference?)

[Black Sheep]

Swingkitten,
I still do not know what BTW stands for, obviously according to the moderator ABOVE, it has something to do with a 'Race Card' being interjected, which I find criminal, at least. The 'Race Card' for his edification has become the Joker in the deck, used by people for whatever suits his purpose. Incredible!
Why, if your moderator was misunderstood because ,'he did not finish the paragraph's' does he not finish the paragraph now for everybody who doesn't know what he's talking about so they do not get the wrong meaning?
Again, read the suggested implication in his statement below:
Quote: " ...that you (Joe Lanza) take your position about me based on my race..."
D'nice wrote:
"(BTW the use of black here is not intended to be taken as a double entrendre implying that you take your position about me based on my race, it is just a turn of phrase) ...What you experienced before was satire, irony, sarcasm etc. "

In vein of his suggesting with his remarks that,'What I was experiencing before was satire, irony, sarcasm etc,' and the suggestion that I am a 'Racist' in no way can be interpreted as 'satire, irony or sarcasm'.

As for his being a Black, I never knew he was black until I saw that photo of him dancing with that two year old girl. Before that, I thought he was just a 'funny' looking white guy, instead of a good looking black guy. No Sarcasm, irony or satire meant here.

I extended my hand of friendship to D'nice twice in my commentaries and apologized to him at least once, and he turns around and bites the hand; that gesture of comradary. Do I extend my hand of friendship a third time? Not until he realizes that I'm probably the best friend the survival of the Lindy has, and that I am not a threat to his business, whatever it may be!

Black Sheep
P.S. Sicily was the first nation in the history of the world that provided complete racial, religious and ethnic freedom under Fredric the II in circa 1085 b.c..

(This post by the way was NO example of sarcasm. I do not think the 'Race Card' is anything to be sarcastic about.)

[pygmalion]

Joe, I hate to tell you this, but BTW is a pretty standard electronic shorthand for "by the way." In d nice's post above, he took pains to say that race was NOT an issue here. And it's not.

No one is accusing you of being racist, Joe. Of misreading dnice's every statement as a personal attack against you, perhaps. Of anything more sinister, definitely not.

Please don't do this.

[DanceMentor]

Agreed. BTW means 'by the way". Can we stop this thread already?
It doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

The idea of "free dancing for the masses" at various locations like hospitals and schools was a very good topic. Now take a look and see what the reader is left with. It's just not fair to the reader!

[pygmalion]

Yay! I've thought of a way to get this thread back on a positive note! :D

I would like to send love and much respect out to a visionary woman I know who has taken "socialized dancing" to a whole new level.

This woman runs a school called the Tajiri Arts School in Sanford Florida. The school teaches many forms of dance and other performance arts to at-risk youth from the local community. She's a woman of great vision, but one of such humility that she probably wouldn't want me to use her name.

The school is dependent primarily on private contributions, with the exception of a very small grant from the local arts council. I don't know how she does it, because many of the students can't even begin to afford tuition, but she never turns anyone away. Never.

It is so inspirational to see unwed teenage mothers, boys and girls with police records, and kids from broken homes turn their lives around. These kids in many cases change from introverts who can't even say their own names on a stage to performers loving the spotlight. All through the power of dance.

She isn't even a dancer herself, but has been able to tap into dance's transformational power to change the lives of hundreds of kids over the years.

Wow.

[Black Sheep]

Pygmalion,
What's going on. D'nice first mentioned Race issue, before I ever in any way implied anything about race. Why did De'nice suddenly; come up with the word 'RACE' in the first place. Now you, Pygmalion with your statement make it sound like I said something about RACE and D'nice responded to that falsely eluded something that I supposedly said in a previous post concerning RACE, which I never did until, AFTER D'nice threw in this RACE thing, and I responded only to assure him, D'nice that I have no racist attitudes.
Now suddenly, I'm the bad guy again.
Nuts! And you can take that any way it suits you, darling.

And now what happens to the concept of 'FREE DANCE LESSONS' I am trying to foster? Lost in a maze of a Race issue? I'm truly saddened with this spin away from the original thread that D'nice initiated.

Black Sheep, 'You can fight city hall, but they make up the Rules'.

[pygmalion]

Let's stay on topic and cite some positive uses of dance in the community. A really good topic with positive potential. :D

[Black Sheep]

Pygmalion, My last post was seconds behind you or my tone would have bee different.
I'm glad to gert back on the orignl thread and will have some constructive ideas for promoting Free Dancing when I get back online. I am moving to a dream Studio the next few days so I'll be disconnected, but when I do return, I promise you a constructive commentary.
Black Sheep, 'Dancing made me free, now I want dancing to be free'. Joe Lanza 2003 a.d.

[pygmalion]

Thanks for that, Joe. I LOVE your constructive commentaries! :D

I thought of another one -- my friend Larry. Larry and two friends formed a dance/drum performance group several years ago. In addition to working a full-time job, having two teenaged children, and an invalid wife, Larry performs in the local schools (gratis, most of the time) exposing kids to music and dance. It's so funny to watch the stuffy, middle-aged teachers wiggling along with the music, trying to look cool. And of course, the kids love it too. Sending you props, Mr. Larry! :lol: 8) :D

It's amazing how many truly wonderful people I've met through music and dance. :D

[Black Sheep]

Free Dance Venues and Free dance lessons are becoming the Vogue:
Three years of advocating the advantages of Free Lessons is becoming a reality!
Joshua's 3rd street in the Santa Monica Promenade has been alone in this area of free Dance Venue for some two years plus. Now we have another Sunday free dance Venue in Old Pasadena on Sundays with free dance lessons from 5pm to 10 pm. And our local band leader, Kid Joz is doing another free Venue this Sunday, and It's happening like wild fire. Teachers, musicians and dancers are beginning to see that freebees can increase the Swing population!
The Jumpin' Joz Band will perform at the Farmer's Market in Los Angeles Free, 6:30-9:10 pm, Corner of 3rd & Fairfax in LA., We will be in the food court area. There is room for dancing.

Black Sheep 'Free Services Often can Generate Dividends' Joe Lanza 2003 a. d.

[d nice]

In San Francisco we have had Lindy in the Park for about eight years or so. Free dance every Sunday morning at the Band Shell in the Music Concourse in Golden Gate Park.

Several swing and Lindy societies around the country have been doing this for a few years now, but SF has one of the oldest continually running outdoor event.

Even for smaller groups of people who can't afford a band, or want less organization, the great thing is that all you need is a powerful enough boombox, some dancers and sun. Makes for an excellent relaxed Sunday.

It'd be great to see more business owners attempting things like Joe mentioned. Thanks for the encouragement, Joe, maybe someone new will pick up on the idea!

-FF

[d nice]

Josh's is definitely superior in that way. The park is a great venue and we get support from the city parks and rec department, but a dance amidst shop owners forms an amazing symbiotic relationship.

Good luck with its continued success!

[Black Sheep]

Assignment for Volunteers,
I hope to do the following research to find sources for dance teachers to work where they get paid by businesses and students get free dance lessons and dancing: What I intend to do can be multiplied if we have others do it in their own communities also:
1) Contact Hospitals and find out over the phone who supervises the therapy or the entertainment for the patients. Ask for an appointment with the person in charge of that department. Prepare a program where you supply the music and the instruction. Offer to give a free trial program for the director to evaluate you concept if necessary.
2) Mental institutions,
3) Senior citizen community centers,
4) Even half way houses for Juveniles would be likely prospects.
5) Pasadena College was looking to hire ballroom dance teachers just 2 years ago; no credentials needed.
6) Shopping Malls are beginning to see the value of holding dances in there midst. Contact the renting agents.
7) The Jackie Robinson Community Center in Old Pasadena is a very excellent prospect for holding dances.
8) The Mormon Church holds these free dance sessions, but these other religious denominations are not as active.

My first dance that I attended as a Junior High School Student was at a Catholic Church on Wednesday nights in Brooklyn.
It is a common trend that when the country goes into economic declines, people are more inclined to seek entertainment.
If you can offer any constructive ways to initiate Socialized Dance Sessions in you community, why not post your ideas?

Black Sheep 'Volunteers often make the difference in Victory' Joe Lanza 2003 a.d.

Awesome. Also, delegating responsibility is also a mental-saving idea: one person handling everything surrounding an event can be taxing.

-FF

[dancedevine]

Awesome. Also, delegating responsibility is also a mental-saving idea: one person handling everything surrounding an event can be taxing.

-FF
this is the truth!!! gadzooks! you can get more work than you can handle in record time when undertaking/initiating such efforts!:?