Closed Position - When to Begin

[DanceMentor]

Sometimes I have difficulty when teaching the Smooth dances in deciding when students are ready to dance in closed (touching) position. I find that beginning students tend to use their arms too much to lead and follow, and they tend to develop bad habits quickly. On the other hand, when I put them in closed position too early, they tend to have difficulty in learning body flight and moving smoothly.

Lately, I've been starting them in a more open position, but every once in a while showing them "what it is going to be like" and then practicing in closed briefly.

Any thoughts?

[Vince A]

With the studients that I have worked with, I never teach "the starter" step until later . . . for the same reasons you quoted . . . they are just not sure of what to do with those bodies so close in the beginning! I like to keep them in the "open" position for many lessons . . .

When I do get them to the starter step, it's basically a 4 ct "rhythm break" . . . usually 2 triples and then a back break . . . if the student(s) can count the music, I'll have them hold cts 1, 2, and begin triple step - cts 3 & 4, triple step - cts 5 & 6, back break 7, 8 pushing them back into the slot beginning ct 1. There are so many variations for this too! I just have them hold cts 1, 2 just so that they do grasp the music. Beginning on ct 1 as the music just starts is very difficult for most dancers.

I rarely use this starter step today, unless I am dancing with, and I know that they are, a beginner to WCS.

[DanceMentor]

Hi Vince,

That's interesting about swing. I am not very knowledgeable about West Coast.

I was actually referring to Tango, Foxtrot and Waltz. Are you talking about someting similar?

[SDsalsaguy]

I really think it depends on the nature of the students. If you know that their primary interest is social then it makes sense not to be overly concerned with introducing body contact, etc., anytime too soon. If, on the other hand, you know that they want to be competitive, then fundamentals are key and frame/body position/contact are some of the most basic criteria judged. In the later case I'd suggest introducing closed position from the outset. How many beginning competitors demonstrate body flight to start with? Also, for the more competitive minded dancer, what is important is not just what they themselves can do but, rather, what they can do together.

Just my take on it.

[pygmalion]

I wish my coach would just break down and join this darn forum! He's one of those many guests out there. :shock:

That said, he does a fair amount of competition training and refuses to teach body contact from the outset. You do dance in closed dance position, yes, in relatively close proximity. But you're not allowed to "graduate" to body contact until you've mastered at least the fundamentals of connection, partnership, and most importantly, proper footwork. You don't have to master the concepts, but you have to at least be on the way. The rationale behind this is that, for smooth dances, without the proper footwork, you spend so much time bumping into each other that it becomes counterproductive. I have to admit I found that approach a little condescending at first, but I've been converted. Hours of lessons bumping into teacher definitely wasn't doing me any good. I just had to do the homework, and get my feet working properly first. *shrug*

[d nice]

I look at it this way...
Its partner dancing. While important technique can sometimes be best demonstrated practiced without a partner, without understanding the why and how it will be used it takes much longer to sink in mentally and physically.

I like to teach weight shifts and just general movement in closed position. It gets the leaders to start thinking about being responsible for moving the couple as one whole rather than himself and it helps the follow realize that she is going to need to be receptive to this movement.

To me it is all about balancing the two.

Here is an academic example, solo movement in a partner dance is like attending a lecture class covering theory or mechanics of a subject, while the practicing together is the lab, the prac-app if you will.

[Vince A]

I can buy that . . .
FOr most other dances, for me, to teach that does work!

But for WCS. I just found it easier to teach them what a slot is, tell to change places in 6 counts, and once they feel this, introduce the actual footwork. Hey . . . maybe I'll call this the "Majik Pill" . . . OH NO! :wink:

Sorry . . . . . . . . :!:

[d nice]

I teach all the swing dances partnered from the beginning. I only have them break apart to do things that need to be understood in isolation (without the random sensory input a partner may add).

[smoothdancingirl]

I think it depends on the natural ability of the student your working with how fast you want to introduce body contact. I usually have my beginners do a closed hold not touching bodies. I think the most important thing in Smooth is to teach the man to lead with his body and the lady to follow his body. Because it doesn't matter if your in closed or open the lady is almost always following the man's body. The frame should always be connected with the body movement or torso. Also make sure the torso stays over the feet. Many Smooth dancers don't do this and that is what inhibits body flight or gives the flat appearance. 8)

[MissAlyssa]

I agree, it has to do with how well they take to closed position. If they can handle it, do it. If they can't, then slowly ween them off of open.

[msc]

Closed position is tough to maintain for everyone, even the best pros, and potentially ... uncomfortable. Really you shouldn't worry about it too much unless you are very, vey interested in Standard.

[pygmalion]

Is there also a personality thing going on here? Yes, closed position in body contact is tough. Really tough. So maybe I'm just trying to weasle out? :lol: But I love dancing in open position. The figures and the flexibility are so much fun. *shrug*

[DanceMentor]

Great feedback, smoothdancingirl!

That was just what I was looking for!