Crap lesson. Oh, and my knees hurt

[Ms_Sunlight]

I went to a group class tonight but I don't think I'll go to that one again. There are several classes running concurrently and the beginners don't get a nice wooden floor, we get the bit in the bar with flagstones. You can not move well or spin well on uneven stone floors. My knees are aching.

Also, the beginner's instructor there seemed to give people no lead-follow technique. There were some guys there who I'd seen there when we went a few weeks ago and they seem to have developed what I am now able to recognise as really bad habits. They clutch your hand really hard instead of letting your hands just rest together, in open position often squeezing your palms uncomfortably with their thumbs with their hands uncomfortably high, and they keep you too far away from them so turns become awkward and steps disjointed. Some of them make steps that are far too big and you can see they're having trouble maintaining stability. In the Sunday class I go to all this gets addressed.

Also, some of the girls were really shoving their bottoms from side to side instead of letting the hip motion come naturally from the steps in a relaxed manner. It looked a bit silly, frankly, and I'm sure that it's not good for the lower back and hip joints.

I really didn't feel I learnt anything tonight.

Afterwards there's a club night. Myself and the husband had a drink and, as we've been learning for a few weeks now, got up on the dancefloor and did a basic wee dance. Nothing fancy; we mambo stepped in closed position, with a bit of opening out to the sides. I wanted to do it because I thought if we are intimidated about dancing up there with the good dancers we set a bad precedent for ourselves. Newbies we may be but we can move on the floor without getting in people's way and we deserve to be there as much as anyone. I'm not ashamed to be a beginner.

Unfortunately the other couples up there were doing big showy things. We were dancing small and moving out of people's way but we both got hit a few times. Hello? I thought it was supposed to be us clueless newbies that spike you with their shoes and hit you with their exaggerated hand gestures? There were no apologies.

I wasn't impressed by that at all. Is there a lot of this about? Dancers who have moves but no common courtesy or basic floorcraft? I found it disappointing. I would like to think that your fellow human beings should be more important that getting through some fancy combination.

Maybe they think we're beneath their notice. The music was good though, but I think I'll try elsewhere for a mid-week class.

:evil: :evil: :evil:

Sorry, just had to vent...

[tsb]

I went to a group class tonight but I don't think I'll go to that one again. There are several classes running concurrently and the beginners don't get a nice wooden floor, we get the bit in the bar with flagstones. You can not move well or spin well on uneven stone floors. My knees are aching.

Also, the beginner's instructor there seemed to give people no lead-follow technique. There were some guys there who I'd seen there when we went a few weeks ago and they seem to have developed what I am now able to recognise as really bad habits. They clutch your hand really hard instead of letting your hands just rest together, in open position often squeezing your palms uncomfortably with their thumbs with their hands uncomfortably high, and they keep you too far away from them so turns become awkward and steps disjointed. Some of them make steps that are far too big and you can see they're having trouble maintaining stability. In the Sunday class I go to all this gets addressed.

Also, some of the girls were really shoving their bottoms from side to side instead of letting the hip motion come naturally from the steps in a relaxed manner. It looked a bit silly, frankly, and I'm sure that it's not good for the lower back and hip joints.

I really didn't feel I learnt anything tonight.



on the contrary - you learned not to go back. i might have asked for my money back.


Afterwards there's a club night. Myself and the husband had a drink and, as we've been learning for a few weeks now, got up on the dancefloor and did a basic wee dance. Nothing fancy; we mambo stepped in closed position, with a bit of opening out to the sides. I wanted to do it because I thought if we are intimidated about dancing up there with the good dancers we set a bad precedent for ourselves. Newbies we may be but we can move on the floor without getting in people's way and we deserve to be there as much as anyone. I'm not ashamed to be a beginner.

Unfortunately the other couples up there were doing big showy things. We were dancing small and moving out of people's way but we both got hit a few times. Hello? I thought it was supposed to be us clueless newbies that spike you with their shoes and hit you with their exaggerated hand gestures? There were no apologies.


i know a few who deserve black belts in latin.


I wasn't impressed by that at all. Is there a lot of this about? Dancers who have moves but no common courtesy or basic floorcraft? I found it disappointing. I would like to think that your fellow human beings should be more important that getting through some fancy combination.



people who dance are like people who drive - or fight for a position in the queue when they're in a hurry. people are people.


Maybe they think we're beneath their notice. The music was good though, but I think I'll try elsewhere for a mid-week class.

:evil: :evil: :evil:

Sorry, just had to vent...

seriously, i would have asked for my money back after a class like that. you risk serious injury dancing on flagstones, and dancing with inexperienced dancers increases the risk.

[Sagitta]

I know a couple fantastic dancers in my littel local scene who don't care about others on the dance floor..

[squirrel]

They are not fantastic, Sagitta... I'd rather dance with a beginner who takes care of me than with an advanced leader who pushes me into the other couples!

[Ms_Sunlight]

seriously, i would have asked for my money back after a class like that. you risk serious injury dancing on flagstones, and dancing with inexperienced dancers increases the risk.

Cheers for the opinion tsb. My knees and hips ache a little today, not badly but I can feel they haven't been well used. I am so not going back!

[tsb]

dancing on any hard surface puts additional stress on the legs.

i try to support a local monthly dance here but the rented hall has a linoleum floor over concrete. my feet usually hurt so much after a full night of dancing i spend most of the evening socializing when i patronize this particular venue.

[Ms_Sunlight]

Yeah. It's made worse by the fact I was wearing my nice dance shoes which have thin, flexible soles. When I bought them I noticed straight away that I was better able to control my moves and spin -- on a nice wooden dancefloor! However if I HAD to dance on stone I would have been far better saying, stuff the salsa, and doing freestyle / RnB moves in my trainers!

As for the inconsiderate dancers I just want someone to teach us to do some cross-body and travelling moves properly so we can more effectively take evasive action. Either that or just start proving how well I can do high-kicks and get them back!

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

[tsb]

unfortunately, there will always be dancers who make the floor seem even smaller by their presence. i've coined the term "dance rhino" to describe these types. i don't know what followers can really do except rely on their partners to help keep them out of harm's way though.

[Sagitta]

They are not fantastic, Sagitta... I'd rather dance with a beginner who takes care of me than with an advanced leader who pushes me into the other couples! By fantastic I mean their skill and ability to express themselves musically. They simply choose not to care about anything that they deem unimportant, thats all. When they do, on those rare occassions, one is blown away. At all other times ones gets really mad at them.

[Sagitta]

unfortunately, there will always be dancers who make the floor seem even smaller by their presence. i've coined the term "dance rhino" to describe these types. i don't know what followers can really do except rely on their partners to help keep them out of harm's way though. dance rhino! I like that. :D

[africana]

it's a BIG BIG shame when people hurt you and don't apologize! especially if they've been dancing for a while, it's proper to stop a few seconds and show some contrition.
Lately I'm made it a practice now to scream and/or gesture wildly at my foot whenever I get stepped on by a heel :lol: that way everyone knows and they are embarassed even if they don't apologize :P

Anyway, don't give up and don't be intimidated

[Ms_Sunlight]

Thanks. I'm not giving up. I'm going to keep learning and keep trying until I can dance the inconsiderate swines right off the floor!

:D :D :D

We went to a different class on Monday night and it was great. Good atmosphere, good instructor, nice people and a proper wooden floor!

[pygmalion]

Lately I'm made it a practice now to scream and/or gesture wildly at my foot whenever I get stepped on by a heel :lol: that way everyone knows and they are embarassed even if they don't apologize :P


:lol: :lol: :lol:

[tsb]

Thanks. I'm not giving up. I'm going to keep learning and keep trying until I can dance the inconsiderate swines right off the floor!


unfortunately, depending on the type of dance & venue, there's a good chance these folks are inebriated and/or otherwise oblvious/indifferent to the havoc they cause. and they get belligerent when confronted. while i'm prepared to absorb a thrashing if honor demands it, i much prefer dirty looks and cutting remarks that leave long lasting emotional scars... :roll:


:D :D :D

We went to a different class on Monday night and it was great. Good atmosphere, good instructor, nice people and a proper wooden floor!

sounds nice. but i wonder what compells the others to return to the other class?

[Ms_Sunlight]

sounds nice. but i wonder what compells the others to return to the other class?

I suspect they don't know better. If they've never been to a better class they do the horrible lesson but they see people at the same venue who obviously can dance and assume that's how they learnt, maybe?

[Twilight_Elena]

Oooh, take care of the knees. I've learn that the hard way. :?
And if those teachers/studio managers think you can do proper footwork on a stone floor, they're obviously not worth your time. Forget about them silly buggers.

Twilight Elena

[leftfeetnyc]

tsb, hope you don't mind, I quoted you re: the dance rhino's on my site. That's such a great term for them. The sad thing is, not matter how much floorcraft is taught, there's always going to be people who don't care or who think they are above the etiquette...in fact they think the rest of us are the ones hogging the floor.

[Twilight_Elena]

tsb, hope you don't mind, I quoted you re: the dance rhino's on my site. That's such a great term for them. The sad thing is, not matter how much floorcraft is taught, there's always going to be people who don't care or who think they are above the etiquette...in fact they think the rest of us are the ones hogging the floor.

I think that the ones that are doing this are not always going to be like this. I think it's a matter of time; they usually realise what they've been doing wrong - sooner or later - and then they're okay. It's just that, by that time, more bad floorcrafters will have appeared. :roll: "It's the circle of liiiiife..."

Twilight Elena

[cocodrilo]

I've never seen any really bad behavior(floorcraft) over here, or around Asia, but when I HAVE been stepped upon or whacked in the face or what have you, the dancers have the common courtesy of stopping and apologizing & or bowing mid-dance to admit their wrongdoing. I do likewise. I have never seen a "rhino" dancer/couple per se, but that's what they make elephant guns for now, don't they? :?

[tsb]

tsb, hope you don't mind, I quoted you re: the dance rhino's on my site. That's such a great term for them.


not at all, hopefully it'll become more popular than "jackhole". :D

The sad thing is, not matter how much floorcraft is taught, there's always going to be people who don't care or who think they are above the etiquette...in fact they think the rest of us are the ones hogging the floor.

in my experience one group of people who do this consider themselves superior dancers and somehow deserving of the extra space. and others encourage them by admiringly watching them strut their stuff when we should be smacking them repeatedly upside the head with a big carp. frankly i admire much more the ones who manage to make the most of a limited amount of space and can do smooth saves prompted by a dance rhino cutting them off.

another phenomenon i've noticed particularly within the ballroom world is that floorcraft gets worse later in the evening when a lot of people have left and EVERYONE assumes the extra space belongs to them and they start taking full strides & doing hesitations in the outside lane, etc.

[tsb]

I've never seen any really bad behavior(floorcraft) over here, or around Asia, but when I HAVE been stepped upon or whacked in the face or what have you, the dancers have the common courtesy of stopping and apologizing & or bowing mid-dance to admit their wrongdoing.

i would be surprised if it were any different in an asian culture. the external respectability thing.


I do likewise. I have never seen a "rhino" dancer/couple per se, but that's what they make elephant guns for now, don't they? :?

rent a copy of "shall we dansu?". there're some collisions in that flick.

[cocodrilo]

I do likewise. I have never seen a "rhino" dancer/couple per se, but that's what they make elephant guns for now, don't they? :?

rent a copy of "shall we dansu?". there're some collisions in that flick.[/quote]
That's a movie, though...
Also, I have never danced ballroom so I know nothing about ballroom floor-hoggers...In salsa, we tend to stay in our little spaces, with the exception of the wild guy that's whippin' his salsera here & there...