How far is is too far?

[hopelessly_addicted]

As a girl coming from an asian background, I don't even kiss guys who are not my bfs/close to be bfs. I see that this is not the norm in Western countries. Knowing this, I'm interested in your views on how far you'd go with strangers... especially those you meet on dance floors.. also, what if they're not complete strangers? what if they're regular dancers/musicians?

[randomMysh]

Depends on whether I like the guy. :wink: :lol:
Seriously, it all depends. There's a lot of physical contact built into ballroom, but even that depends. If I get a weird vibe off the guy, I'll put more distance between him and myself. If everything feels like good clean fun, I can get pretty wild, 'specially if I know him already. :roll: But definitely no kissing, other than a peck on the cheek if it's a friend. No kissing at all if it's a stranger. If anyone thinks that's too uptight, oh well.
Do you feel pressured into more physical contact than you like? Grrr for those people!!! :evil:

[DanceMentor]

Yes, I can understand this. There are plenty of people from other backgrounds where lots of touching, hugging and kissing is not the norm, especially with strangers. I think even in the case where people kiss one another socially, it is more common to do this only after they are comfortable with one another.

[Sagitta]

As a girl coming from an asian background, I don't even kiss guys who are not my bfs/close to be bfs. I see that this is not the norm in Western countries. Knowing this, I'm interested in your views on how far you'd go with strangers... especially those you meet on dance floors.. also, what if they're not complete strangers? what if they're regular dancers/musicians?

You know your comfort level h_a. You always have the right to only do what you are comfortable with. I wouldn't say that this is common in Western cultures. I know many Westerners who wouldn't do what you suggest. It depends on the circles that you move in.

Let me give you an example that contradicts what you have suggested. Take church service where at one point the priest asks everyone to wish ecah other peace. This past Sunday I hugged and did the kiss in the air thing with one of the chaplains. The next person I greeted was someone from Latin America. She did exactly the same with me and we are random strangers. Note not a western person!! I was fine with that, though most people will just shake hands. We both were comfortable with the hug and kiss thing and if either of us wasn't then it would be our right not to do this. And by the way I am Asian too, and lived most of my life in an African culture, so you cannot classify me as Western either. And I have done and seen people doing what I did in non-Western countries too in other situations, as well.

[cocodrilo]

I am an American living in Asia, and the dance events I go to have a high attendance of latinos, who often greet with kisses & hugs. They do this to people they are close with, not perfect strangers. I would not expect a kiss from a perfect stranger, it would be quite odd I think. The hugging thing really throws off the Japanese women here, but those who are in the salsa scene for awhile get used to it and even say they like the skinship thing.

[hopelessly_addicted]

oops I didn't clarify the kind of kiss I was talking about. A peck on the cheek is fine! I do that all the time when greeting people! (well not all the time but with the right people....) No.. I was talking about lip to lip kiss to kiss that involves tongue.

I see people on dance floor kissing like no one's watching one minute and then walking out of the venue like they don't know each other. Or people who french kiss multiple people in one night.. i mean... is that normal?

call me conservative, but for me, the kind of kissing that involves tongue or contact of lips is reserved for bfs.. what do you guys think?

[Sagitta]

oops I didn't clarify the kind of kiss I was talking about. A peck on the cheek is fine! I do that all the time when greeting people! (well not all the time but with the right people....) No.. I was talking about lip to lip kiss to kiss that involves tongue.

I see people on dance floor kissing like no one's watching one minute and then walking out of the venue like they don't know each other. Or people who french kiss multiple people in one night.. i mean... is that normal?

call me conservative, but for me, the kind of kissing that involves tongue or contact of lips is reserved for bfs.. what do you guys think?

hmmm... well a while back...around x'mas time...I was dancing with this cute chica and doing besito which involves a kiss on the cheek. She actually though it meant a kiss of lips on lips. So, there are situations when guys camn take advantage of situations... ( I didn't do so). There were other things going on but I won't elaborate as the situation was as a result of her ignorance and nothing else.

[gte692h]

I see people on dance floor kissing like no one's watching one minute and then walking out of the venue like they don't know each other. Or people who french kiss multiple people in one night.. i mean... is that normal?

call me conservative, but for me, the kind of kissing that involves tongue or contact of lips is reserved for bfs.. what do you guys think?

as someone who has adapted to western/U.S culture, i can clarify a few things.. from my experience, the kissing you mention is usually reserved for intimate settings. But in clubs, it happens, especially if there is a pick-up mission in progress. they might have been strangers at the start, but if they're going at each others' throats (via their lips) then chances are that things are escalating.. sometimes people get drunk, and caught up in the moment, it can be a lot of things.

so yes, you are naturally uncomfortable - and i don't think french kissing strangers is a cultural norm. nobody should force you to do such things, by claiming that is the 'culture' here. don't fall for that.

[cocodrilo]

I would NEVER kiss a stranger on the lips, not to mention letting his tongue in my mouth! If you are attracted to that person and are perhaps thinking of spending the rest of the night with him, if ya know what I mean, wink wink, then sure, go ahead. If it's mutual, there is nothing wrong with that. On the other hand, the dance parties I host are hardly conducive to that sort of thing- sure things may click with a couple now & then, but people are going there with the intention of dancing and we usually don't have to worry about fending men off as sometimes happens in the club scene.

[hopelessly_addicted]

ok. I'm gonna ask a separate question but this was what made me want to post this thread.

Do singers/musicians of saught out bands HAVE TO be friendly to their patrons (dancers/non-dancers)? If the friendliness extend to lots of flirting, making out and kissing on the lips and beyond, can that be justified by saying that that's the way they get their money (ie related to their profession)?

To me, this sounds like an absolute bull**** but what do you guys think? Since my experience in salsa/latino community only started 8 months ago, I'd like an opinion from you guys :) oh this singer/musician guy is a latino btw. Perhaps it's a cultural thing?!?

[hopelessly_addicted]

as someone who has adapted to western/U.S culture, i can clarify a few things.. from my experience, the kissing you mention is usually reserved for intimate settings. But in clubs, it happens, especially if there is a pick-up mission in progress. they might have been strangers at the start, but if they're going at each others' throats (via their lips) then chances are that things are escalating.. sometimes people get drunk, and caught up in the moment, it can be a lot of things.

Yes, i've seen all that happen and from my background, being drunk is unexcusable for such behaviour and kissing with strangers and escalating to something else is unimaginable :?

so yes, you are naturally uncomfortable - and i don't think french kissing strangers is a cultural norm. nobody should force you to do such things, by claiming that is the 'culture' here. don't fall for that.

I try my best to be in the position where I can be forced into doing anything...

Where are you originally from gte692h? I think I've read somewhere but can't recall...

[cocodrilo]

Singers, musicians, doctors, teachers, travel agents, people in ANY business for that matter should try to be cordial to their clients/patrons if they want to continue in that line of work and have a good reputation/following. I hardly think this includes kissing, groping or any other sexual behavior, unless of course you are in the sex industry.

If someone is feeding you this line(I have heard so much about wily salsa instructors and I have known a few to try out the line on me!), that "everyone is this way"- with the sex, then it IS total BS. Sounds like someone is out to take advantage of you. Be careful.

[hopelessly_addicted]

Singers, musicians, doctors, teachers, travel agents, people in ANY business for that matter should try to be cordial to their clients/patrons if they want to continue in that line of work and have a good reputation/following. I hardly think this includes kissing, groping or any other sexual behavior, unless of course you are in the sex industry.

If someone is feeding you this line(I have heard so much about wily salsa instructors and I have known a few to try out the line on me!), that "everyone is this way"- with the sex, then it IS total BS. Sounds like someone is out to take advantage of you. Be careful.

Thanks for your advise cocodrilo. Yeah, what he said clearly sounded dodgy. Just needed a confirmation that I'm normal and he's not! There has been a mild attraction between us I guess (didn't seem so mild on his part though :shock:) but this guy is no bf material for sure. Not even sure as a friend really. But you know how the story goes.. girls falling for bad boys :wink: Not gonna happen to me though! Not this time anyway....

[Larinda McRaven]

What is very interesting about this is I recently read a story about this very phenomenom.

During the Korean War, the US GIs thought the Asian women were too fast. And the Korean women thought the American men were moving too fast. How is that?

Well it seems that Americans kiss relatively soon in a romantic relationship, yet the progression from there to the bedroom moves (or at least in the 50's) rather slow.

Asian cultures do not generally engage in PDA. And actually getting to the kissing stage in a realtionship happens rather late with sex very soon after.

So the American men were kissing the women early which signalled to the Korean women that it was time to head to the bedroom.

Both cultures were totally confused as to how to slow down the other half, yet everyone was giving signals to the others that were saying it is time to move forward. So there was/is a huge miscommunication going on.
-----------------------
Bcak to your case H-A, I would say of he is not boyfriend material there would be absolutely no kissing for me.

[cocodrilo]

Singers, musicians, doctors, teachers, travel agents, people in ANY business for that matter should try to be cordial to their clients/patrons if they want to continue in that line of work and have a good reputation/following. I hardly think this includes kissing, groping or any other sexual behavior, unless of course you are in the sex industry.

If someone is feeding you this line(I have heard so much about wily salsa instructors and I have known a few to try out the line on me!), that "everyone is this way"- with the sex, then it IS total BS. Sounds like someone is out to take advantage of you. Be careful.

Thanks for your advise cocodrilo. Yeah, what he said clearly sounded dodgy. Just needed a confirmation that I'm normal and he's not! There has been a mild attraction between us I guess (didn't seem so mild on his part though :shock:) but this guy is no bf material for sure. Not even sure as a friend really. But you know how the story goes.. girls falling for bad boys :wink: Not gonna happen to me though! Not this time anyway....
Good for you! I would definitely advise to steer clear of this type. You wouldn't believe some of the stuff guys have told me trying to sweet-talk me into the sack. It's like "Take a cold shower, dude!" :lol:

[cocodrilo]

It's funny Larinda, that some of the Asian countries I've visited(quite a few) do engage in public displays of affection. Hong Kong for example- young folks are all over each other! In Korea, young folks are pretty touchy-feely as well. In Japan, I have just started to notice it within the last 10 years. Not so much kissing, but holding hands, or arms wrapped around each other. You would never have seen that back in '85, when I moved here.

[wuthering]

In my Hungarian culture when people meet, they shake hands or just smile to each other. In France where I live, people kiss each other when they meet for the first time. I tried to stick to my old habits because I didn't like too much proximity with strangers, but it got people confused. When I offered a hand instead of my cheek, some got literally as scared as if I was pointing a gun at them. :roll: So now I kiss around and say nothing about it.

In the salsa community people are very intimate with each other, like holding hands, caressing arms, hands, shoulders. Once I accidentally met a salsa friend in a cinema, and without realising it, we were caressing each other's arms and hugging each other. I wouldn't do that normally to half strangers in a public place. Therefore I don't usually meet salsa friends outside the usual settings.

Be careful though with the intimacy you create. IMO it should be gradual and shouldn't make you feel embarassed. Even when dancing, you don't have to put up with everything, and a pleasant remark or even a warning helps things get back on track.

[Joe]

Well it seems that Americans kiss relatively soon in a romantic relationship, yet the progression from there to the bedroom moves (or at least in the 50's) rather slow.

FTFY! ;)

[Pacion]

Do singers/musicians of saught out bands HAVE TO be friendly to their patrons (dancers/non-dancers)? If the friendliness extend to lots of flirting, making out and kissing on the lips and beyond, can that be justified by saying that that's the way they get their money (ie related to their profession)?
Hopelessly_Addicted, as someone mentioned, in my opinion, singers/musicians ought to be friendly to the patrons because that is good business. Friendliness/customer service DOES NOT INCLUDE making out and intimate kissing etc. Flirting, hey, I tend to do this instinctively so I can't say no go there. :oops: It makes them laugh, it makes me laugh and we both go our separate ways at the end of the conversation with smiles on our faces. As Cocodrilo wrote, this is not the sex industry we are talking about here.

It does not matter which culture you are in, ANY GUY who tells you that it is the CULTURE or the habit for girls to kiss strangers intimately or do more is trying to feed you a line. That is not to say it does not happen, it does. But, the fact that it happens does not make it a cultural thing. :? It just means that there are some girls who are willing to be intimate with a guy they have just met and there are others who are not.

Under no circumstances should you feel pressured to do something you are uncomfortable with. I have some gay friends who kiss both male and female friends with closed lips. We kiss on the cheeks. It does not make me any less than a friend and my friends respect that.

When I was in my teens, a wise person gave me some very good advice... she said to me, Pacion, you will meet guys who will ask you, either directly or indirectly, to be intimate with them. You can do one of two things - slap them across the face/throw a drink in their face :twisted: or tell them "thank you for the compliment" with a pleasant facial expression and then depending on the situation, either remove myself from their presence or stick around and be careful - chances are the guy may try again or he will take my decline gracefully and drop it. I live in the UK and it is has worked which ever part of the world I have been, with guys of all backgrounds - students, muscians, dancers, businessmen/professionals...

As I got older, wiser and more confident, when the guy inevitably asked "Why? Don't you like me?", I tell him - "I want to respect you in the morning :wink:" They laugh, they don't feel rejected (they were probably expecting it anyway but they thought they would still try :lol: :nope:). :D

Hopelessly_Addicted, it has often been said that if a guy asks you to dance, you shouldn't say no, without good reason - him asking/suggesting you to be intimate with him is a different scenario altogether and it is perfectly alright to tell him to "go take a hike", as politely as possible. I hope what we have all written has helped. :D

[Sabor]

So the American men were kissing the women early which signalled to the Korean women that it was time to head to the bedroom.

:shock: really?! ooops.. err.. well i hope the Korean women still dont think that way!

[hopelessly_addicted]

So the American men were kissing the women early which signalled to the Korean women that it was time to head to the bedroom.

:shock: really?! ooops.. err.. well i hope the Korean women still dont think that way!

:lol: Why Sabor, have u much experience with Korean women? :wink: :lol: well.. as a korean, I can tell you now that we don't think that way anymore! No way!

[hopelessly_addicted]

As I got older, wiser and more confident, when the guy inevitably asked "Why? Don't you like me?", I tell him - "I want to respect you in the morning :wink:" They laugh, they don't feel rejected (they were probably expecting it anyway but they thought they would still try :lol: :nope:). :D
That's a great line Pacion :lol:


Hopelessly_Addicted, it has often been said that if a guy asks you to dance, you shouldn't say no, without good reason - him asking/suggesting you to be intimate with him is a different scenario altogether and it is perfectly alright to tell him to "go take a hike", as politely as possible. I hope what we have all written has helped. :D

Thanks Pacion. What you and cocodrilo have written really helped me to clarify that this is not a cultural dilemma, and that i should be as assertive as I can be (and polite) in expressing my wishes...

[Larinda McRaven]

An nyong ha seyo!

[hopelessly_addicted]

An nyong ha seyo!

Man Na Seo Ban Gab Sep Nee Da, Larinda! :D

[cocodrilo]

Sarahamnida, everyone!

[macha]

Wombat.

And secondly- what is with anyone in any culture "mouth kissing" family members, kids, friends, boyfriends of friends, etc.?

Have you ever been around one of those "kissin'" families? My boyfriend's mother has a lifelong/childhood friend who visits from time to time. Michelle will hug Cindy (boyfriend's mother) and NOT kiss her, but when Cindy and James were together, she'd kiss James on the mouth, along with any other man around. She even did it to J once, and he was completely :shock: thrown for a loop. So, when she came to shake my hand and tell me bye, nice to meet her, I just dealt her the same treatment she'd given to nearly everyone else-only, of course, at the last possible second, I put my hand so that I was kissing the back of it instead. Besides throwing everyone for a complete loop, it stopped her from putting her clap trap on my boyfriend, and made everyone stop and think before doing something that could be deemed offensive by moi.

Mouth kissing should be reserved for couples and to prove points. Would you kiss your best friend on the mouth? Honestly? How would she/he feel if you kissed their SO on the mouth?

Sure, there will be a lot of behind-the-hand whispers about this little divulgence o' mine, but A- there were already, so who cares, and B- at least now people see my point here familiarily speaking. It's just weird to see adults- parents or not- kissing kids on the mouth- especially considering that kids eat dirt among other things.

This from someone who taught their ponies to smooch and take graham crackers out of her mouth carefully.

Wombat.

[LauraB]

What's wrong with kissing your best friend on the mouth? Or their SO, if you're close? I guess it just depends on how affectionate your friends are. I definitely wouldn't do it to someone I wasn't close to, but I have no problem kissing my best friends' on the lips, and they don't mind kissing me. ;)

by the way, I love your quote about witches.

[cocodrilo]

I think it's a bit too much to be kissing everyone on the mouth. I've done it a few times with really close members of the opposite sex, but we were hardly sober at the time! :wink: Also, consider the germs people are spreading by doing that!(Yeah like I want your cold alreday! :evil: )

Macha
I have never seen a wombat in the continental United States!

[macha]

Lol- I reread, and I wish there was a way I could clarify it, but the way things are in my mind are too wombat to try and type out. ( :oops:

I think I was trying to say "if you're going to adapt a standard of no smooching, you shouldn't be kissing other people that are non-SO or SO-of-friend... but that TOTALLY didn't come across.

"Yeah, I've been drankin a lil'," said Kenny's Mom...

and oh, CRAP you should see the polish job I just did on my nails... :shock:

[squirrel]

I am definitely against this habit of kissing on the mouth. I've seen it in some families, but the mere thought of kissing my mom or dad on the lips makes me feel like throwing up! And yes, I do love them dearly!

In my opinion it is unhealthy and sickening.

With my friends I kiss on the cheeks and nothing more. The lips are reserved for guys I am intimate / have a wish to be intimate with.

[hopelessly_addicted]

Sarahamnida, everyone!

Saranghamnida! :wink:

[Sabor]

What's wrong with kissing your best friend on the mouth? Or their SO, if you're close? I guess it just depends on how affectionate your friends are. I definitely wouldn't do it to someone I wasn't close to, but I have no problem kissing my best friends' on the lips, and they don't mind kissing me. ;)

by the way, I love your quote about witches.

agreed.. u know u are right, so dont care what anyone else says! :lol: :lol:

[Pacion]

What's wrong with kissing your best friend on the mouth? Or their SO, if you're close? I guess it just depends on how affectionate your friends are. I definitely wouldn't do it to someone I wasn't close to, but I have no problem kissing my best friends' on the lips, and they don't mind kissing me. ;)

by the way, I love your quote about witches.

agreed.. u know u are right, so dont care what anyone else says! :lol: :lol:

:doh: I would like to think that I am affectionate with my friends and I will hug and link arms until the cows (or should I say wombats :wink: ). I do recognise for some people that kissing friends on the mouth is part of who they are. But, it is not part of who I am - it is just something I don't do.

LauraB, I grew up in the tropics were vairous diseases/illnesses were prevalent. In addition, whilst I believe it is pretty much eradicated (but guessing, haven't readup on it), there was a leper colony (on an island) a few miles away. From recollection, as a child, I was told that leprosy is transmitted via saliva (and seeing people lick a finger to turn a page still makes me go "Yikes!" but that is my problem/emotion to deal with :wink: ). So, what is wrong with it? Nothing, if that is what you are used to... I am not. :D

I am off to Google now... :car:

[TemptressToo]

The whole Latin kissing on the cheek thing is taking some getting used to...all my salsa friends embrace and kiss me on the cheek. I allow myself to be hugged/kissed as a greeting. However, I have not gotten accustomed enough to return the kiss. Anyone know if they would consider me rude not kissing back? And when is it appropriate to do so? At the same time they are kissing me or on my own immediately afterwards?

[Pacion]

At the risk of making this thread ultra serious, I found this on Google:

Far from the traditional believe, and although it is an infectious disease, leprosy is not easily transmitted, neither hereditary. Very specific circumstances have to take place so that the bacillus passes from one person to another, such as lack of hygiene, poor diet, overcrowding, constant intimacy with the infected person…Actually, less than 10 per cent of the people exposed to the bacillus develop the disease.

Hansen’s bacillus penetrates the body through mucus nasal, mouth and skin. Period of incubation is very long, from three to ten years, so it is very difficult to know exactly when it was transmitted.

Leprosy hasn't been eradicated though. Apparently since 1987, there has been a cure for it.

As a matter of fact, it is still a public health problem (more than one case per 10,000 inhabitants) in 14 countries from Asia, Latin America and Africa. The most affected countries are: India, Brazil, Madagascar, Mozambique, Myanmar and Nepal. 90 per cent of the cases detected are found in these countries.

Every year, more than 600,000 new cases are detected worldwide and the total number of affected people is 7 million approximately.

Leprosy is also still present and active because the affected patients are still marginalized by the society. They usually live isolated from the community in order to hide their disease, and they are also forced to live in places with difficult access due to the irrational fear of being infected by the disease.

[Larinda McRaven]

Sarahamnida, everyone!

Saranghamnida! :wink:


Aaaww.... Kam sa hamnida :kissme:

[wuthering]

The whole Latin kissing on the cheek thing is taking some getting used to...all my salsa friends embrace and kiss me on the cheek. I allow myself to be hugged/kissed as a greeting. However, I have not gotten accustomed enough to return the kiss. Anyone know if they would consider me rude not kissing back? And when is it appropriate to do so? At the same time they are kissing me or on my own immediately afterwards?

TT, I've got a problem with this too (as I said before earlier in this thread). The right way to do it though, is that the person in front of you kisses you on one cheek and you kiss him/her back on the other cheek. A kiss is meant to be returned. If you're not confortable returning a hug, then just put your hands lightly on his/her arms, shoulders or back. If too much proximity bothers you, just explain it gently and calmly. But you shouldn't remain passive when being greated with a kiss and/or a hug.

[TemptressToo]

Does that mean when our faces are side-by-side and he is kissing my right cheek I should be kissing his right cheek at the same time? Or does that mean I draw back and quicky kiss his left cheek. And then, there is the dreaded double kiss...a kiss on both cheeks (although I think this is more of an European thing).

I had interntational business in college and we covered such things. I just don't remember...nor had I been presented with the opportunity to practice ettiquette until recently.

[MacMoto]

Does that mean when our faces are side-by-side and he is kissing my right cheek I should be kissing his right cheek at the same time?
Yes.

And then, there is the dreaded double kiss...a kiss on both cheeks (although I think this is more of an European thing).
:lol: :lol: :lol:
It's certainly not a Scottish thing and took me a while to get used to.
Now I have to stop myself giving non-salsa people a double :roll:.

If you feel awkward about kissing people on the cheek, there's always the air kiss option...

[Sabor]

let me help u settle this thing:

if they're gorgeous.. kiss on the lips
if she's average/okay .. kiss on the cheek
if they're below average/not okay.. kiss in the air
if they smell funky.. get a restraining order for no less than 20 ft

see .. easy

NEXT!

[TemptressToo]

Where would you kiss me? ;)

(kidding)

[Sabor]

Where would you kiss me? ;)

(kidding)

i dont think u want an answer .. kidding or no kidding :lol:

[TemptressToo]

Oh really...

Anyway, thanks for claritying what I was wondering. I'll be sure to kiss back. Those Latin people are very kissy. I've had a few leads tell me how much fun I am to dance with and actually kiss me on the forehead after our dance. I suppose that is a sign of affection. ;)

[LauraB]

I didn't grow up kissing my friends, I actually didn't use to be very affectionate at all. Now, though, it really depends on my relationship with a person. But I also didn't grow up where there were lots of diseases. Like I said, I only kiss my close friends on the lips, but A kiss on the cheek is more common for me. There was a guy I worked with once who would always have to give me kisses on both cheeks, and I hated it. I had gotten him to stop rubbing my arms and shoulders, but I put up with the kisses. I don't like people touching me who I'm not close with. It makes me very uncomfortable. My family has always been non-touchy-feely, but I hug them now.

[cocodrilo]

But I also didn't grow up where there were lots of diseases.
Things have changed quite a bit in the past twenty years, with virus strains mutating and changing, populations have increased and people are traveling everywhere introducing and spreading new diseases. It makes total sense to avoid kissing strangers on the lips.