When You're Into a Shine, Shine, Shine...

[Twilight_Elena]

...the whole world doesn't shine around you. Or at least for me. I was replying to another thread where someone mentioned that he knew a ballroom dancer (follow) who hated WCS because she didn't know what to do when he put her into shines. She just stood there, looking at him, having nothing to follow.
When I read that, my heart went out to that woman. Then I realised, "I do salsa! I'll be 'required' to shine at some point!" The realisation didn't make me panic. Instead, it made me angry. All I've been hearing about shines is:
-be yourself
-express your feelings
-feel the music
-do your own thing
-improvise
...and so on and so forth. All is good in theory, and I'm with everyone who's saying that. Sure, feel the rhythm, move to the music! That's what it's all about! Except this leads to a certain something.
That something is not easy to put in words, but it could be eloquently described as IT. IT (and I do not mean Information Technology for the techies out there :wink: ) is what every native cubano seems to have, as well as all those instructors and performers at the biggest Congresses or that girl you saw dancing last night at your local salsa club. They've got IT, and when you see them you just smile and know they're in touch with The Music. Those people seem to have the remarkable gift of moving to the music as if their own heart beats clave. They move to the music, with the music, and they do a darn good job at it.
The problems all start at the point where every mortal is required to have IT at a certain degree. I don't mean those who don't even like dancing or anything that resembles excercise. Nor do I mean those who do salsa because that's what's in style nowadays. I'm talking about those who are in love with salsa, those who get huge grins when they hear the clave beat and feel alive when they dance to it. Those people (the true salseros/as in my book) dance salsa or at least try, with various degrees of success. Are they supposed to have IT? Sure, they connect to the music. If I am allowed to consider myself a salsera, I 'll say out loud that I connect to the music. When I hear the salsa play, I feel like something is fluttering inside of me. It's like a heartbeat, like a shiver. I feel the music, dammit! It's there, it's alive!
But I can't shine to it.
There we are. The focal point of this thread. The SHINES. Not at all related to "The Shining" and closely related to freestyle dancing of any kind, shines can be a dancer's most favourite thing or his worst nightmare. What are they, anyway?
If I was called upon to describe shines, I'd probably say that it's that part of salsa where your own unique style and personality expresses itself full force.
So it's a good thing, they'd probably answer. It's the absolute manifestation of dancing as a means of expression! It's the greatest thing ever invented after sushi rolls! :D
I'd sigh and say "I suppose. For more info, please ask X, Y or Z because I can't shine for my life."
Let's think of dancing like regular, non ballroom/salsa/Swing/AT/etc. people. You go to a club and move clumsily to a monotonous beat (that is NOT music) along with the rest of the mass. Now let's go back to our favourite place, The Salsa Spot. There are people there who've got the IT. They're to be worshipped every Saturday night, but let's get away from those semantics for now. :P You're at The Spot, dancing with Mr. X Salsero. Sounds like heaven and it really is great, but that's the point where trouble starts. You are asked to shine. You freeze in place. WHY?
Well, for one thing nobody ever taught you anything about shines at girlscouts, camp, pyjama parties with your girlfriends or other major events of your teen life. Nobody told you when you were Majoring in nuclear science that shines exist or that you're supposed to shine when dancing salsa. Why? Probably because salsa wasn't there in the first place. Unless you're the luckiest lad/lass in the whole wide world and have grown up with Vasquez and Edie Torres babysitting you, or are used to hanging around with Da Silva and Liz Lira every freaking afternoon, chances are you didn't talk about salsa growing up or even now that you're an adult (let's pretend I am one too for a moment here).
But let's say you've seen people shine before and know what it's all about. Heck, you're an active DFer and have talked about shines yourself! What you're going to do during shines, i.e. the Moves isn't really the hardest part of the deal: we've all "danced in undies" when we were children, teens and yes, even as adults. It's as common as singing in the shower. Many ladies (myself included) do styling while doing household chores, homework (again, me :oops: :P ) or when they listen to salsa. Heck, when I'm in my room with "Yo Soy La Candela" as my sole comfort, I can pull off a whole styling workshop!
But just because we sing in the shower, doesn't mean we'd get a record on the market and start performing at MTV. You can pull off pretty cool moves in front of your bedroom mirror and hell yeah, you can shine! It might not be top quality professional shining, but if you were ever required to do your thing for a 5 seconds, you could pull off some sweet moves! Wepa! :D :D :banana:
So let's go back The Spot, where our guy is waiting for the bodyrolls, shimmies or whatever else you've got in mind. And you're still frozen stiff.
"Look around you!" you cry. "There are people around! They are staring! They are eeeeevil! They want to make fun of me and my poorly executed hip motion!" For some peculiar reason many people feel like that. I am one of them and I cry out pretty loudly. Because letting out your sexy self with a guy you barely know and in front of a crowd that has seen much better shines than your pathetic attempts at freestyling... let's just say it's pretty rough.
Hah, you'd say. It's all about insecurity, chica! Is it?, I answer. Lack of skills, experience and shine workshops might be additional factors. I'm very eager to hear what everybody has got to say on this huge rant of mine. It might be my rant, but I'd bet my Latin heels ( :shock: :shock: :shock: ) that there are many, many salseros/as out there who feel this way.
I am daring you to comment on this delicate issue.

Twilight Elena

[tacad]

:lol: I wish I could help but I enjoyed your post. Like everything else in life, if you haven't got the IT you probably have to build it up gradually (or let it out gradually depending on your point of view), little by little. When inspiration strikes you go with it. 6 months down the road you can't believe how much better you are. Heck, I'm a ballroomer trying to break out of the endless patterns. Inspiration struck last night during a cha cha. I went with it, managed it ok, my incredible partner managed to follow me ok. Then I couldn't find my way out of what I was doing. Crash and burn! But as I continue to let IT out I think IT will find IT's way out more often and sustain ITself longer.

[cocodrilo]

I was lucky to have been taught a lot of different shines by my instructor and also by some other excellent dancers. I always liked shines because I could practice them anywhere, anytime and look cool! Once you learn a lot of shines, you can do variations on them and create your own moves.

[vey]

T_E, dear, do not stress out, everything (including shines) will come to you at some point.

You already know that you have it inside you, it'll just take some time and practice to get it out of yourself in public.

Sometimes it helps to force the issue -
take footwork workshops/ bellydancing/ a couple of privates (if you can afford) and ask instructor to concentrate on open shines or get a regular partner(s) and just try to overcome whatever you're trying to overcome.

IMHO it is easier to do shines when guy is in T-STANCE plus you're the one who controls for how long you wanna do it... - that one is great to work on if you have a partner...

Sometimes it's better not to force the issue (you decide which one) - concentrate on other aspects of your dancing and let shines "brew" on their own.

I think for a social dancer the main purpose of taking classes, practicing, etc. is not as much to learn as to get comfortable with your body, to get in touch with your "inner dancer".
GOOD LUCK <hugs>

Another thing - good dancers are not going to look at you doing shines unless you're good and dancers at your level or below, if anything, will be sympathetic b/c they can identify with your struggle

[Twilight_Elena]

:lol: I wish I could help but I enjoyed your post. Like everything else in life, if you haven't got the IT you probably have to build it up gradually (or let it out gradually depending on your point of view), little by little. When inspiration strikes you go with it. 6 months down the road you can't believe how much better you are. Heck, I'm a ballroomer trying to break out of the endless patterns. Inspiration struck last night during a cha cha. I went with it, managed it ok, my incredible partner managed to follow me ok. Then I couldn't find my way out of what I was doing. Crash and burn! But as I continue to let IT out I think IT will find IT's way out more often and sustain ITself longer.

I agree with you, tacad. I suppose it's too early to know. I'm glad you enjoyed my post; it was an article-y shot at a subject that troubles many salseros/as. I hope people read and comment on it.
Oh, and thanks for the support. It's really not a thread about "how to help T_E" (more like a thread on how to help everyone with their issues), but I thoroughly appreciate your kind words. You're adorable. :D :D

Twilight Elena

[Ms_Sunlight]

It kind of gets to me when people say things like "just feel the music and improvise!" Yeah, that's the basis of freestyling of any flavour, including shines, but it's not that easy. Improvise what? Using what building blocks? And how do you do it, in a partnered context, in such a way that you're grab-able and leadable when shine time is up?

:evil:

The point being, people often assume that things that come easy to them must be easy for everyone. That's not always the case.

[Lucretia]

I really enjoyed your post....

But I guess you already is going to fulfil your dreams. You will soon do the most excellent shines.

Why?
I guess you already have taken a lot of classes in styling/footwork
You write you do a lot of styling alone at home - when washing up and cleaning the house. This last sentence means your body feel accustomed to this new bodylanguage. Good!

Now you "just" have it let it out in the club :D

WHy don't you "over rehearse" a few shines so you can pull them out of your sleves when it is time. Train them a lot at home ...you must be sure about them. If they don't feel good - adjust them to whats felling natural to you. (Many coreographed shines are "unnatural" :wink: and don't have the harmony my body needs)

Do this work alone in you home. Then when you feel confident....do them by yourself when you wait for next salsaclass. Or some other kind of environment where there are salsapeople and salsamusic but hardly none have time to look at you. I arrive too early every monday to practice shines on a good floor. (And if there are missing ladies in that class I may dance :D )

If you go for line-style classes - do your own shines instead of those the teacher tells you. I missed one linestyle class and next time when everybody was going to to the shines they already knew ...I was standing like a fool. But just for a microsecond. This and next lesson I did my own shines. I did learn much more about shines by NOT doing the stuff my teacher told me to do. I released my own creativity in a "safe" environment.

Let the shines out in small portions. You don't have to complete the if you don't feel for it.

Jump!

/luc

[MacMoto]

I hear you T_E. I always had a shinephobia. I could never remember any of the fancy footwork or styling stuff my excellent teachers taught, so all I could manage when I was put on the spot was to do my wiggly basic (basic step with wiggles). Still, people seem to get this impression that I *like* doing shines, keep making me do it and, sometimes, give me compliments on my shines. :shock: So my conclusion nowadays is, there's nothing wrong with wiggly basic, and since guys generally like my wiggle basic, that's fine by me. :roll:

I basically have two modes of shines:

1. When the leader makes me shine in the T-stance or cross-body position, I *flirt* with the guy. That's wiggling side to side, wiggling up'n'down, body rolling, shoulder rolling and other "get up close and wiggle" type stuff. I might also do a gancho (hooking your leg around his, tango style) if I remember how. Usually I don't remember so I just wiggle.

2. When the leader lets me go for solo freestyling, I *admire* the guy. I might mirror and copy what he's doing if I can, but if he's really into shines, I don't do much myself -- just stay there, do my wiggle basic on the spot (yeah I'm a one-trick pony) and watch what the guy's doing. I let him show off his stuff.

I still practise my teachers' fancy footwork patterns, but I haven't been able to use any. The difference is I worry less about it. I took a ladies styling workshop with Grisel Ponce once, and she says that, when dancing socially, she doesn't do a lot of fancy shines. She says she tends to stick to pretty basic things like basic step, right turn, left turn, etc., but with a lot of attitude. So that's what I'm aiming to achieve.

[cocodrilo]

Attitude, heh heh! I like that attitude! 8)

[Twilight_Elena]

I guess you already have taken a lot of classes in styling/footwork
You write you do a lot of styling alone at home - when washing up and cleaning the house. This last sentence means your body feel accustomed to this new bodylanguage.

:shock: :shock: :shock: Oh my, I was completely misunderstood! :? I have NEVER taken styling classes in salsa, or footwork workshops. In fact, the only salsa lessons I've ever done are the 1h every Saturday night groups! :? I'm so sorry if I led everyone to believe I'm some sort of salsa guru, because I'm not. I'm an ickle beginner who has been doing salsa for 9 months and that's that.
I've been shown basic arm styling in ballroom Latin privates, and since I've got the basics I can improvise on them. I've seen tons of instructional, professional and amateur salsa videos, and this has widened my horizons, so to speak.
When I said I could pull off a styling choreography on a good day I was trying to make a point. I was talking on behalf of the average salsero/a who has taken workshops, styling classes and the like, and not strictly about myself. I thought I had made that clear, but unfortunately I hadn't. Sorry. :?

Twilight Elena

[cocodrilo]

Great about the videos! Good way to learn shines.

[hopelessly_addicted]

I used to feel exactly like you T_E few months back. I still feel that way sometimes especially when a guy does a t-stance and i'm put in the spot to do shines when I don't feel like it. I do half-hearted shines and I don't like that...

But I'm a lot less stressed out about it now. I watch copious amount of video clips of pros doing shines socially. I try to copy them by practising at home but I haven't "mastered" them enough to pull them off socially.. I don't think it's necessary to take styling classes to do shines really... videos are great way to learn... I'm more aware of what can be done with practise.

Sometimes I surprise myself by just shining (letting go) without consciously thinking of what shines I'm doing. Rarely, but it does happen, when great shine material part of a song comes on, I kinda let go of the guy.

However, what I love most about salsa is the partnership aspect of it :D I used to hate shines because I preferred the security of doing well exactly what the guy tells me to do. Now, I like the partnership aspect more for different reasons than before...

[Sagitta]

When I notice a follower uncomfortable I stop doing my thing and re-connect. I have done this so much that I almost think I've forgotten how to shine. :oops: :)

[aragonh]

When I notice a follower uncomfortable I stop doing my thing and re-connect. I have done this so much that I almost think I've forgotten how to shine. :oops: :)

I do the same thing. I encourage them to try it out but if they are uncomfortable i immediately reconnect. After all, you dont want to be looking narcissistic.

As for me, I LOVE shines. I love finding a partner who is great at moving her body and moving with the music.

However, I wasnt born with this IT. I first started small, learning one shine and repeating, repeating it. Then I learned another shine, and repeated it. Then I started combining shines. I then learned more shines that I forgot the first ones that I learned!!

And then I started experimenting. . . . and thats where I am at the moment. I do shines that I forget after the song is over. I do some stuff that when I do it again in the studio w. mirrors, it looks sucky. There are some stuff, however, that I like and I keep.

And really, thats what shine are for me. Its my expression of my interpretation of the music.

[Lucretia]

:shock: :shock: :shock: Oh my, I was completely misunderstood! :? I have NEVER taken styling classes in salsa, or footwork workshops. In fact, the only salsa lessons I've ever done are the 1h every Saturday night groups! :?

Well you better go to a shining/footwork class. And then practice at home. I guess videos are a good start ....but systematic practice is much better. Regular practice!

I found out another "semi-official" way to practice shinings. At salsaclasses when there are to many ladies. A Rueda class would be great!

One of my teachers did this kind of exercise last monday when we trained Cuban patterns in a "Rudea way". The 2X8, 3X8 or whatever time she was free she used for practice. And then she jumped to the next guy whenever he was available.

I guess this is a good way of training because the environment is similar to the clubs. Anyhow it is the same people :wink: and they are all occupied by learning new stuff. Noone will have time to see whatever you do. :D

/Luc

[IsabellaCruella]

wow. I really didn't know what the hell a "shine" was... but I suppose I know now. serious stuff. So what is wrong with just doing what ever you want? And just dancing and having fun? Sorry if your eyes are bleeding from reading my simplicity. oh I wanna do a "shine". cool stuff.

[Sagitta]

wow. I really didn't know what the hell a "shine" was... but I suppose I know now. serious stuff. So what is wrong with just doing what ever you want? And just dancing and having fun? Sorry if your eyes are bleeding from reading my simplicity. oh I wanna do a "shine". cool stuff.

What is simple to one may not be simple to another.

[africana]

So what is wrong with just doing what ever you want? And just dancing and having fun? Absolutely nothing 8)

And don't let other people make it all sound so stressful and serious and such a great big deal than it really it. It's simply dancing, and it's supposed to fun, spontaneous, natural (although for some ppl lots of practice helps give confidence & attitude)

[hopelessly_addicted]

You're right africana. It's really important to do shines with an attitude. Otherwise, the shines don't look like your own. ie it might look like you're just practising what you've just learnt in a class - while there is nothing wrong with that, to the on-lookers, you appear to have more fun if you shine with your individual flavour.

It's not just how you appear to others. If you're comfortable enough with what you're doing, I think your own attitude/flavour would just come out doing the shines naturally... I'm not a natural dancer, so lots of things that I do that look natural come from practise..

[cocodrilo]

Well said, Hoeplessly_addicted. I try to incorporate a generous amount of attitude with my shines- the musical selection helps! I will be doing a couple of solo performances this summer and it will not be pre-choreographed, just getting up on stage and doing what I know.

[Paou]

Hey all,

I guess I have something to say on this...

In classes, the figures you learn are not to be danced as figures, they're there to help train your body to know what's "right" when dancing. (or rather, what's right... "for you" since everyones body is wired differently and everyone has a slightly different feeling with the music.)

Likewise with shines and styling classes. A suzi q is just a way of moving your body that when you've done one enough times and listened to enough salsa - starts coming naturally and automatically when shining.

I guess this is why lucretia said that coreographed shines can feel unnatural. And for me... dancing isn't about performing the figures or shine patterns I learn in class.

It's about training my body to perform what I feel when I hear the music USING the ways of moving that I learn.

To this end, a couple of ways I have learned to help 'train' my body to do what I feel.

Excercises designed to help give you the "IT" factor :)

---

Ok, so first. Work on throwing out any strict idea of 1,2,3...5,6,7... when shining

There are rules... and they're important... but... some of the rules are more guidelines than scripture, and you'll never learn what rules can be bent in the dance unless you break them sometimes and make mistakes.

The most important thing is that you need to be ready to step with the correct foot on the 1 once the shine is finished without shuffling around your feet and getting confused. Once you can do this, transitioning back to 'partner' dancing becomes a lot easier

Developing this in itself isn't easy. I would suggest taking a piece of music.. dance about like a loon for a bit ignroing any semblance of footwork or anything (when I started I was jumping round my living room like an idiot), and then try to get back into a basic step at some point. Break out of the basic again and repeat.

Try and develop the following things while doing this:

1) Starting your 'shine' on the correct count. i.e. finishing on the 7, and start your "sexy thang" on the one. This I found relatively easy, well... all except the 'sexy thang' part :)

2) Deciding as late as possible that you're going back to the basic... try and get it so you can decide 'on' the 7 or 8.. this I found relatively hard... I always had the wrong foot ready to step, and that's what I needed to work on learning.

3) Work on returning with the same timing you started with.. i.e. a complete number of 1,2,3..,5,6,7... must have passed since you started your shine. If you have a friend to practice with (luckily I did)... it helps if you take it in turns 'shining', and then they can keep the basic step going while you do your thing, and you can ensure that you end up with the same timing as them when you finish... alternatively if you have salsa videos, you can use these as your 'friend' for practicing.

4) Practice breaking out of basic and returning to basic at 'appropriate times in the music. You know... when the song breaks into a percussion only section... and try and start when the music 'starts' up again.

---

Second. Stepping to the song. Take a song with a reasonably defined melodic pattern.

Something like tito puente's Ran Kan Kan... or mambo gallego. Practice stepping your feet with this melodic pattern.

As an example:

Ran Kan Kan has something like the following pattern at the very beginning of the song (and repeated in places throughout)

(The exact timings are not completely right nor comepletely important... this is an illustration - B is a trumpet 'hit')

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8
B B B B BBB B BB B B B

so.. for example, you can step the following
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8
B B B B BBB B BB B B B
L R L R LRL R LR L R R

Try diffent combinations of steps until you feel comfortable that you can hit the timings.

Double up steps when you feel like it, or 'hang' when you feel like it... like at the end of my example... At the end of this melodic line I either like to punctuate it with a Bam Bam Bam step with the same foot... or... sometimes I like to "flow" my body (with a bodyroll or somesuch) through the last 3 Bam Bam Bam hits...

note that stepping with the correct foot on the one is very important when you FINISH your shine, but less so in between :)

Try the same thing, but, instead of moving your feet, try moving your body in time while keeping your feet more stationary.

Then lastly start combining the two so your body and feet move as one :)

---

third (and finally for this reply)

Take some of the footwork you know... for example a suzi-q, body roll, samba steps... whatever... or anything else you see other people doing while shining... practice them individually so your body developse a sense of 'how' to do them, and then incorporate them into the things you practice above.

And don't worry, keep practicing, it'll get easier, and always remember you can literrally do ANYTHING while shining.

[cocodrilo]

..errr, that's what I meant! :lol:

[Paou]

Also, with the second 'stepping with the music' part - experiment with stepping to (or better said dancing with) the percussion as well as the melody. or any other part of the song you feel like (it helps if you can recognise patterns in whatever your dancing to)

Patterns are important.

Music has a couple of concepts that might help in practicing, and that you might want to mirror the concepts of in your shines / dancing.


the first is a 'call/response' structure.
This is where you can hear one instrument say something in the music, and another 'replies' then the first comes back and says something else. And so on... in a dialog.

When you hear this you can mirror in your dancing, by dancing to one instrument with a certain 'attitude' (say punctuated... deliberate, steps) and then the second with a different style (say, more flowing)


second is a concept of self simmilarilty and repetition

you'll hear in the call /response structure that the second time and instrument/ vodcal 'speaks' it 'says' almost the same thing as the first time, but with a slight difference. Again, you can develop this in your dancing so that the first time you dance something with that instrument, and then the second time you dance the same, but add something / remove something / change something depending on the music.

This doesn't just happen in call/response... it happens when a phrase is repeating. eg.

"Bam Bam, Bam U Bam, Bam Bam, Bam U Bam U"

If you can reflect this self simmilarity in your dance / shines... it can be a good thing.




Thirdly is a concept of mirroring.

(and this applies more to dance than to music - it's one way of differentiationg your steps for the above for instance)

take your basic side step for instance. It's split in two. One step to the left, one to the right. Mirrored.

You can/should mirror other things you do too. Four suziq left, then four right.

Perhaps the second time you do it you add an embelishment at the end so the third suzi q is something a little different.

don't mirror everything, naturally, but it's another tool in your arsenal :)


fourth is a concept of building.

Fairly self explanatory, the musician is building from a basic into a climax by adding new instruments, or making a repeated phrase slowly more complex. You can mirrror this in your dance too, incorporating it into the repetition, starting simple and working up.



lastly is a concept of breaking

This is when you hear a large change in the music, normally accompanied by a "Pow", and a drop in energy. It's used a lot when the musician wants to change the direction of a song without continuing to build. And often happens at the climax of a section.

Here you can pose, or dip, throw your hands in the air. Drop to the floor... whatever you want. Something dramatic.

Looks good if you pause and/or drop in energy too.


Hope all this is helping someone :)

[Paou]

just having a read of what I said... please, don't think these are any sort of 'rules'... they're just things that are good to play with / practice to help you train your body and become more spontanious and natural. :)

[peachexploration]

just having a read of what I said... please, don't think these are any sort of 'rules'... they're just things that are good to play with / practice to help you train your body and become more spontanious and natural. :)

Great info Paou! :D

[HF]

Paou

Good posts!

[cocodrilo]

I guess Paou realy broke it down for us!(applause!)

Actually, I never really gave too much thought to all of that- when I was just starting out I tried to get as many cool shines down as possible and work on them with my own style. Next I made up some of my own moves and pieced them together with the shines I was taught/learned. Now, I just go with the music, not having to think about what I'm going to do next, just letting my body and the moment dictate what happens.

[Paou]

One more thing about repetition I want to say is that I use repetition to help me know what's coming next in a song.

Normally things get repeated (with small changes), often 2,4,8,16... times.

When you know this, you can then make predicttions about what the song will do next.

For example if the song goes "Ran Ra Ranna" once, I know it's going to do something at least very simmilar the next measure.

And so even if I don't know the song, I'll do something that goes with "Ran Ra Ranna" in the second measure (and probably third and fourth too)

Often the fourth repetition is special, and a major changes happens after the fourth, so I'll do some kind of "tada" finish to whatever I was doing.

Sometimes I get it wrong and end up being all big and climaxy when the music went 'pur plink', but then that's life :D

Oh, and cheers for the big up people :)

[Sabor]

i shine my shoes b4 going dancing.. does that count?

[Sagitta]

i shine my shoes b4 going dancing.. does that count?

What happens then when you dance barefoot on the beach, or with sandals?

[IsabellaCruella]

i shine my shoes b4 going dancing.. does that count?

What happens then when you dance barefoot on the beach, or with sandals?

oh I wanna dance on the beach barefoot! lets go.

[Twilight_Elena]

:lol: LOL Sabor and Co.! Shine my shoes... now there's a good way to get my mind off shines!
Wow, Paou, that's some pretty great advice you just gave me (and everyone else!) :D Beats me how I'm ever going to do all that, but I think starting slooooooow is the best way to go. As in, first learn your BASICS, woman! :roll: :lol: Then, if I EVER manage to get my basics straight, I can move on to more complicated things.
*begin rant*
Which brings me to an interesting issue. When I dance with my salsa teacher at parties (and the DJ always puts fast salsa, damn it! :x ) he always starts slow on me. Lots of basic, a turn or two, some Dile Que No's, and so on. Then he moves on to trickier stuff, such as DQN's w/turn, setendas, etc. Then, if I'm able to pull them off (which I usually am) he actually starts to enjoying himself rather than be in his 100% teacher mode. It is almost like we're dancing for the pure fun of it.
And at that point something goes clicky in my head and I lose my step, which brings us back to basic mode.At that point I feel like I've ruined the whole dance. :headwall: :headwall:
What is WRONG with me? Am I intimidated of pure fun dancing and subconsciously want to stick to safe basics? This is very similar to my shinephobia. Aarrg! :headwall:
*end rant*
Ehm. That was probably exams stress, but it's a true and frustrating story.

Twilight Elena

[Lucretia]

There is nothing wrong with you. This happens to all people...in the beginning. After a while you will be able to both enjoy yourself and dance.

I guess the problem start with some steps you misunderstand or you are off beat beacuse you missed something or where too slow in a turn/spin. Then you start to think again (and thats not good) and you feel that you cannot manage the situation. And then it goes.... :headwall:

More dancing....more dancing...more dancing with different people....
And the problem will be solved.

/luc

[cocodrilo]

And at that point something goes clicky in my head and I lose my step, which brings us back to basic mode.At that point I feel like I've ruined the whole dance. :headwall: :headwall:
What is WRONG with me? Am I intimidated of pure fun dancing and subconsciously want to stick to safe basics? This is very similar to my shinephobia. Aarrg! :headwall:
*end rant*
Ehm. That was probably exams stress, but it's a true and frustrating story.

Twilight Elena
When you're starting out there's the matter of intimidation AND just trying to remember the steps(hellish for me as I tend not to like anything logical, if you can percieve that notion!). Your present mental & physical aptitude DOES affect your dancing and the stress put on you by exams may be related(also it sounds like a good excuse!). Cheers to you & keep at it, girl! :D

[Twilight_Elena]

You know what my best friend and fellow dancer says to me all the time? "You're thinking too much. Stop thinking. Really." But I'm an analyser by nature. Tough luck. :?

Twilight Elena

[Medira]

You know what my best friend and fellow dancer says to me all the time? "You're thinking too much. Stop thinking. Really." But I'm an analyser by nature. Tough luck. :?

Twilight Elena
Heh, my instructor tells me that too. I find it's easier in chacha and rumba than the others, because those are the ones I picked up the fastest. We now have a deal though. He wants to imrove his performance technique, so our deal is that when he dance, he has to look like he's enjoying it (since he has a habit of looking either dead serious or unhappy) and I have to perform every dance I do. It's been helping me to stop overthinking my steps and think more about how I can perform the dance with the lead he's giving me.

[tacad]

You know what my best friend and fellow dancer says to me all the time? "You're thinking too much. Stop thinking. Really." But I'm an analyser by nature. Tough luck. :?

Twilight Elena
Don't know if this will help, but I have to start by analysing and then once I understand things well enough I have to let go of the analysing and just feel.

[Sagitta]

Take salsa suelta workshop... and check out teh following shine video clips...


http://salsamoves.tripod.com/
http://www.how2salsa.com/index_fw.htm#shines


:cheers: :)

[Twilight_Elena]

Take salsa suelta workshop... and check out teh following shine video clips...


http://salsamoves.tripod.com/
http://www.how2salsa.com/index_fw.htm#shines


:cheers: :)

Thanks, Sagitta! :D I'll check them out and update on the groovy moves I'm gonna learn! (...sorta)

Twilight Elena

[megaproto]

room with "Yo Soy La Candela" as my sole comfort, I can pull off a whole styling workshop!



great song!! :D is it the buena vista ??

well yeah guys having trouble with shines too but.... girls have more trouble i guess

[cocodrilo]

well yeah guys having trouble with shines too but.... girls have more trouble i guess
That's a really good observation- I've only once heard a guy comment "Gee, I gotta learn more shines!" but it's the women that seem to be more self-conscious about it! I learned more shines than partner moves, so I'm even more comfortable dancing solo! Give me a hot song and I can do a whole performance of shines for the duration! 8)

[Twilight_Elena]

"Yo soy la candela" is Edwon Bonilla's. Buena Vist a Social CLub do sing "Candela", though it's a completely different song.

Twilight Elen

[Josh]

It kind of gets to me when people say things like "just feel the music and improvise!" Yeah, that's the basis of freestyling of any flavour, including shines, but it's not that easy. Improvise what? Using what building blocks? And how do you do it, in a partnered context, in such a way that you're grab-able and leadable when shine time is up?

:evil:

The point being, people often assume that things that come easy to them must be easy for everyone. That's not always the case.

(I know this post was a copule of weeks back, but I couldn't help but notice!)

I am completely in tune with your sentiments here... once a girl told me that she thought it was ridiculous that I was taking salsa classes... why not just move with the music? she would say... It made me SO mad and confused at the time. It's like telling someone who has never driven a car to just.. go try it! Hope you don't kill anyone else or yourself! Especially since a leader (to me) bears more responsibility for the dance, how can a leader be expected to just go move and claim it as an already established dance? At any rate, I'm glad I didn't listen to her :-)

[borikensalsero]

The mechanical operation of a foreign entity isn’t very comparable to self-expression/artistic expression using our own body.

The basics of freestyle or shine are rather simple, do what ever comes up in your mind. If you feel like swatting imaginary flies of your shoulder then do that, if you feel like sitting down in an imaginary chair and imaginarily take your shirt off, then do it.

Freestyle or shines really are just that, the period where a person digs into mind, heart, and soul and do with the body, whatever it is they feel like doing.

If that notion is not enough, then use as a “stepping” stone for free-styling or shining, staying on beat. Besides that anything and everything that can possibly come to your head about moving your body, should suffice.

When people hear shines, they are scared off by fancy footwork and all kinds of things that are but different manifestation of what someone feels like doing. Hence, we think shines really are some kind of fancy movements that we need to go to school to learn. Shines are nothing but the time where we self express, use the body and move it!

Do not limit yourself by a preconceived notion of what must be done during a shine sequence, rather, say, crapola, I’m free do wiggle my butt until its time for partner work, then do it.

We already have building blocks (The body, and staying on beat) use them as you please, the only notion of partner work and shines is to keep a connection through the eyes, or emotional. If we are having problems staying on beat, or are too timid to move the body as we feel like, then we aren’t ready to shine and should not be worried about shining until we feel more secure.

Latinos will say just dance, because it is a given in a latin culture that moving to the music hasn’t to do with what anyone says we should do. We just go ahead and bust out doing whatever the heck comes to mind. Now, getting back to partner work, we figure it out when its time to grab and go.

I’m latino and my non-dancing friends still laugh at me thinking that what I do is school thought, which mostly aren’t, telling me that all I have to do to freestyle is “move what your mama” gave you.

It might help to define shines or freestyles, like that then we don’t have as much pressure to move our bodies when the time comes, but crapola if we are told that shines are a specific set of steps, then all mighty God, who the heck is going to know what shines are until told exactly what to do, at which point its stops being self expression, and even freestyle, rather, other’s expression and borrowed-style.

[africana]

I like to move what my mama gave me :P

[Twilight_Elena]

I like to move what my mama gave me :P

Don't we all, girl. :wink: :D
Josh, I feel for you. My best male friend believes that dancing lessons are the silliest thing in the world, because dancing is a naked expression of one's psyche and so on and so forth. I've just given up on talking to him about dancing, because it leads to a big fight every time. :roll: :cry:
Boriken, you just said it all. :D :notworth:

Twilight Elena

[peachexploration]

............ Shines are nothing but the time where we self express, use the body and move it!

Do not limit yourself by a preconceived notion of what must be done during a shine sequence, rather, say, crapola, I’m free do wiggle my butt until its time for partner work, then do it.

We already have building blocks (The body, and staying on beat) use them as you please, the only notion of partner work and shines is to keep a connection through the eyes, or emotional. If we are having problems staying on beat, or are too timid to move the body as we feel like, then we aren’t ready to shine and should not be worried about shining until we feel more secure.......

Totally agree, Boriken. I say think "outside the Q". Suzie Q, that is. :wink: To use examples of shine masters: Frankie Martinez or Juan Matos. I don't think I've seen them do anything remotely close to a Suzie Q. Most often when I watch them, I go "what the !?! was that"! :shock: :lol: But, I say that in admiration of their skill in self expression. It's all about there own self expression as Boriken says. There is no way you could even name the moves that they do when they're social dancing. They probably couldn't tell you either because they are doing what the "feel".
...If we are having problems staying on beat, or are too timid to move the body as we feel like, then we aren’t ready to shine and should not be worried about shining until we feel more secure....... Very true, Boriken. Very true. :)

[hopelessly_addicted]

Do you see the need/benefits in learning shine patterns?

[peachexploration]

:) I like how Paou and Boriken stated the following:
just having a read of what I said... please, don't think these are any sort of 'rules'... they're just things that are good to play with / practice to help you train your body and become more spontanious and natural. :)

....Do not limit yourself by a preconceived notion of what must be done during a shine sequence, rather, say, crapola, I’m free do wiggle my butt until its time for partner work, then do it.....

Sure, there are benefits but my recommendation is to certainly think outside the "Q". Allow for you own self expression. :)

[Sagitta]

:) I like how Paou and Boriken stated the following:
just having a read of what I said... please, don't think these are any sort of 'rules'... they're just things that are good to play with / practice to help you train your body and become more spontanious and natural. :)

....Do not limit yourself by a preconceived notion of what must be done during a shine sequence, rather, say, crapola, I’m free do wiggle my butt until its time for partner work, then do it.....

Sure, there are benefits but my recommendation is to certainly think outside the "Q". Allow for you own self expression. :)

Ditto dat. Though, it is good to know certain patterns to lead salsa aerobics, as I found out! :oops: :)

[tacad]

I got shined tonight. :D At a ballroom dance, I danced a foxtrot with a relative beginner. Then they played a salsa and discovered I was dancing with an experienced salsera. Then she broke away into a shine and after about 10 seconds she was done and we continued the partner dance. That was fun.

[Sagitta]

I got shined tonight. :D At a ballroom dance, I danced a foxtrot with a relative beginner. Then they played a salsa and discovered I was dancing with an experienced salsera. Then she broke away into a shine and after about 10 seconds she was done and we continued the partner dance. That was fun. Yup. One never knows what is hiding behind the cloak of a relative beginner with one dance. Maybe a genius in another. :)

[Twilight_Elena]

I agree, Sagitta. Many times I've gawked in :shock: at dancers who were mediocre in salsa but were amazing in, say, tango. Many of my teachers are like that, though they're mostly very good at everything.
Thanks about all the pointers, everyone. I believe the whole shinephobia is generally mostly fear of your own body/potentials and lots of insecurity. So I'll take Boriken's advice and stop worrying about things that I'm not ready for.

Twilight Elena

[tacad]

Taking boriken's advice goes for me too.