Manhattan Dancesport Championship - July 4th weekend!

[standardgirl]

Anyone going?
How is the competition in amateur syllabus events? big? mostly contested? or small and mostly uncontested?



ps. The original thread got removed accidentally, so I am restarting this again! :D

[Angelo]

Anyone going?
How is the competition in amateur syllabus events? big? mostly contested? or small and mostly uncontested?

Last time I went (two years ago I think), it was fairly small but there were at least three couples in both the latin and standard events we competed in. The fact that it is on the July 4th weekend may have something to do with it.

[Larinda McRaven]

It is good sized for the Pro events. Usually each style has at least semi's.

[skwiggy]

Is there generally a good turnout for the open amateur events?

[Katarzyna]

Is there generally a good turnout for the open amateur events?

Usually yes! :D

[skwiggy]

How good? :)

[Katarzyna]

Last year standard had close to 30 couples (1st round), with most of the top people, and latin had quarters, (with quite a few names I recognise, but I don't know the latin couples well)....

Most people will be there again...

[Angelo]

when I went, I think the open amateur latin and standard events had at least a quarterfinal if I can remember correctly

[skwiggy]

In that case, I'll probably go! :D

[alemana]

cannot WAIT. i can walk to the venue from my apartment in brooklyn - this was the very first ballroom event i ever went to (last year, natch) and i remember how overwhelming the whole thing was.

[Katarzyna]

You should! What will you be dancing?

[skwiggy]

You should! What will you be dancing?

Open Am Standard.

[Katarzyna]

We will be competing then :)

[skwiggy]

We will be competing then :)

Excellent. See you on the floor! 8)

[Katarzyna]

If I only knew who you are :) :?: :?:

[skwiggy]

If I only knew who you are :) :?: :?:

check your PMs

[Katarzyna]

Thanks! You turn out to be one of 3 people I suspected from your area :)

[Nik]

I'll be there :D

[Katarzyna]

I'll be there :D
That's great :!: :!:

Are you guys going to Blackpool?

I wonder how big it will be this year (and if there will be any international couples) At manhattan that is...

[SDsalsaguy]

At manhattan that is...
I'm soooooooo glad you added that! At first I was like :shock:, thinking "how can she even ask that about Blackpool?" :lol:

[standardgirl]

I will be going, too!

[Chris Stratton]

Novice Bronze probably means bronze syllabus.

As for costumes, if you can't find anything specific, assume the NDCA rules (no costumes in syllabus) apply. You can always bring both outfits with you though.

[Katarzyna]

At manhattan that is...
I'm soooooooo glad you added that! At first I was like :shock:, thinking "how can she even ask that about Blackpool?" :lol:
I re-read my post and realized it sounded a bit off without that line:)

[chrisjohnston]

I just heard some very interesting news re.this comp.Every Pro and Amateur event with the exception of the Amateur Smooth will feature the current US champion in that style.There are also record entries in the Pro-am Smooth and Rhythm.As Supershag is going to the comp we shall post photos with placings as quickly as possible during the event.Cheers Chris

[pygmalion]

Every Pro and Amateur event with the exception of the Amateur Smooth will feature the current US champion in that style.


What does that mean? Every event includes entries by the current champion?

[chrisjohnston]

It means that Jonathon,Andre,Eugene etc.are all competing.Cheers Chris

[DancerForLife]

We're going as well... From the West Coast, dancing Ama Smooth and Pre-Champ standard. Looking forward to it - doesn't happen often that we fly across the country for a comp...

Anybody know how big will the Ama Smooth field be?

[callen]

We're going as well... From the West Coast, dancing Ama Smooth and Pre-Champ standard. Looking forward to it - doesn't happen often that we fly across the country for a comp...

Anybody know how big will the Ama Smooth field be?

In past years when I've danced it, it's been Diana's couple (I think they're Diana's, maybe Gary's.) and us. We're not dancing it this year. I haven't seen that couple competing in smooth in a while. So it is likely it will be very small.

Good luck.

Christopher

[chrisjohnston]

At the moment there are 4 couples in the Amateur Smooth,30 couples in the Amateur Standard.There are also 3 rounds in the Pro am Standard and Latin Championships for A,B and C.All the best Chris

[Dancing4Life]

Thanks for the info... looking forward to seeing you there!

[chrisjohnston]

Just to let you know,Supershag will be hosting a Pro-Am party on Thursday night on behalf of the competition organisers.As the comp is about 25% bigger than last year if you do not have an hotel room can you please contact 973-276-0201.Please do not contact Supershag as we cannot help you with rooms,Cheers Chris

[LauraB]

Anyone here doing pro-am, or just am-am? I'll be competing with my student on Thursday and Friday.

[Taita]

*drops out of lurk mode*

I'll be there

*drops back into lurk mode*

[callen]

Anyone here doing pro-am, or just am-am? I'll be competing with my student on Thursday and Friday.

I may well go on Thursday evening to watch the rising star pros and the mambo.

Christopher

[alemana]

i wish we were ready to compete, but it's not going to happen for Manhattan... i'll be there watching and cheering though!

[Sunshines Partner]

Anyone here doing pro-am, or just am-am? I'll be competing with my student on Thursday and Friday.

I may well go on Thursday evening to watch the rising star pros and the mambo.

Christopher

I'll be real interested in seeing the results of the Mambo since Sanchez/Penatello beat Telona's in the Mambo in the Rhythm at American Star.

[alemana]

yeah, the mambo is about to get really interesting.

[pygmalion]

*drops out of lurk mode*

I'll be there

*drops back into lurk mode*

Hi Taita! :D :D :D

[Larinda McRaven]

We will be there on Friday night competing. It is always a great competition, the crowd is very good at supporting the competitiors.

[pygmalion]

Best of luck, Larinda. :D :friend:

[standardgirl]

best luck, Larinda, and I will see you there!
Congrats for your result at Yankee! :D

[Taita]

[

Hi Taita! :D :D :D

*drops out of lurk mode*

Hi Pygmalion! :D

You coming out with us this time? :wink:

*drops back into lurk mode*

[Katarzyna]

Is the filming at Manhattan also not allowed?

[standardgirl]

Is the filming at Manhattan also not allowed?

I would assume so, since it's NDCA, but I am not 100% sure......

[Katarzyna]

I really hate this about the NDCA comps...

[Kitty]

filming was free at Yankee on Sunday :banana:

[Katarzyna]

filming was free at Yankee on Sunday :banana:
Luck you

[Wildon]

I really hate this about the NDCA comps...

Don't totally blame the NDCA. Even though it is stated that according to the NDCA rules, video taping is not allowed in the Ballroom, there is no rule in the NDCA rule book that prohibits it. If any thing, it really only applies to the pro events. This rule, to protect the routines of the pros, was initiated by the PDF in the late 80's. Today, this agreement is really between the organizer and the videographer. The videographer is the only vendor that is protected by the organizers, using the excuse that the NDCA does not allow videotaping in the ballroom. Baloney!!

To give you an Idea, the videographer can gross between $10,000 and
$30,000 on an average weekend. It's simple math. If a comp has 500 heats, and only 2 cameras are running, there's your $10,000.
I go to comps where there are between 6 and 12 cameras. True not all are running all the time, but I see as many as 4 or 5 at a time, even at smaller events. Do the math. It's the videographer who is reaping the harvest. The organizer gets a vendors fee and a small percentage of the gross. So, most of your discontent should be directed to the videographer, not the NDCA

[etchuck]

Won't be there this year (like I was last year). Maybe another one in the future, provided the job search goes well.

[Katarzyna]

I really hate this about the NDCA comps...

Don't totally blame the NDCA. Even though it is stated that according to the NDCA rules, video taping is not allowed in the Ballroom, there is no rule in the NDCA rule book that prohibits it. If any thing, it really only applies to the pro events. This rule, to protect the routines of the pros, was initiated by the PDF in the late 80's. Today, this agreement is really between the organizer and the videographer. The videographer is the only vendor that is protected by the organizers, using the excuse that the NDCA does not allow videotaping in the ballroom. Baloney!!

To give you an Idea, the videographer can gross between $10,000 and
$30,000 on an average weekend. It's simple math. If a comp has 500 heats, and only 2 cameras are running, there's your $10,000.
I go to comps where there are between 6 and 12 cameras. True not all are running all the time, but I see as many as 4 or 5 at a time, even at smaller events. Do the math. It's the videographer who is reaping the harvest. The organizer gets a vendors fee and a small percentage of the gross. So, most of your discontent should be directed to the videographer, not the NDCA

Perhaps that's true. It would be so much easier if they just sold video passes for people that enter couple different events. (couple hundred for videos of a comp seems like a bit too much in my opinon) Perhaps make sure that pro event's can't be taped etc...

How does one become a videographer?

[alemana]

it may be true that the folks who *profit* are the videographers, but the organizing body is ultimately responsible for the current situation - that competitors' choice consists of wildly expensive professional videos or none at all.

sucks.

[Wildon]

it may be true that the folks who *profit* are the videographers, but the organizing body is ultimately responsible for the current situation - that competitors' choice consists of wildly expensive professional videos or none at all.

sucks.

I guess you didn't read the part of my last post that referred to the PDF. At one time all organizers allowed video taping. In the mid to late 80's Nicholas Cotton, who was a protege of Brian McDonald, and a group of other pro competitors formed a group that lobbied the newly formed PDF to require the NDCA to ban the taping of all pro events so that their routines were not stolen, or used at parties, without some sort of renumeration. Instead the NDCA did wrote a rule that "video taping was not allowed in the ballroom except for the private use of the organizer, but not for sale". That rule has since been removed from the rulebook, but the intent has not been removed. The rule was broken from day one, since the videographer sold the tapes, and the USBC sold all the pro events through Dance Vision.

In the end, you can't blame the organizer for the price of shoes, dresses,
or videos at their events. All are vendors, and all pay a percentage and buy an ad in the program. It's the competitors that pay the asking price. Stop buying the tapes and the videographer will lower the price. It's supply and demand. If you complain, but still buy the tapes, then it's your fault that the price stays at a high level, and who sets the price? Not the organizer.

[Katarzyna]

In the end, you can't blame the organizer for the price of shoes, dresses,
or videos at their events. All are vendors, and all pay a percentage and buy an ad in the program. It's the competitors that pay the asking price. Stop buying the tapes and the videographer will lower the price. It's supply and demand. If you complain, but still buy the tapes, then it's your fault that the price stays at a high level, and who sets the price? Not the organizer.
Well, with videos, you don't have much choice... You either need one then and there, or you don't. It's not like a gown or shoes that you can buy some other place. Comp videos can only be taken at the venue. Choice between really expensive or none is not a good one... I did many college comps and I am really used to taping all of my events. It gets very frustrating when I can only tape once every few NDCA comps because the cost of taping is too high.. :cry:

Also, if organizers allowed for taping and sold video passes, they could actually make some profit...

[dressgirl]

hmmmmm.......if cameras went to competitions by themselves and everyone ordered videos, then I guess you would have a point about the $$. For every camera, there must be a camera person, that individual gets paid, expenses covered, airfare, taxi, hotel. Plus, at least one person to organize the camera people. And the cameras are not all going at once. They have to be prepared for the big heats, but often there are only 2 -3 cameras going, maybe less. Add in people not picking up their videos, shipping and security. If the $ was that easy, we'd all be videographers.

[Katarzyna]

I do understand your point...

I just feel that if the camera costs are so high, I would just love to handle all the expenses of my camera if I was just allowed to tape myself...

[dressgirl]

When I danced, it was a real luxury to be able to afford the videos and that was a billion years ago. So I understand. I know a lot of couples who choose certain events where there are certain other couples on the floor to video over ones where maybe the competition isn't quite as good.

As far as supply and demand, its true, but I think if people stop buying videos, there just wouldn't be a videographer. At Yankee there wasn't a photographer. Expenses are on the increase for all the vendors and the organizers are charging a lot more to cover the costs of scholarships and other items. Vendor world is a lot more complicated economically than a lot of people realize.

[Kitty]

When I danced, it was a real luxury to be able to afford the videos and that was a billion years ago. So I understand. I know a lot of couples who choose certain events where there are certain other couples on the floor to video over ones where maybe the competition isn't quite as good.

As far as supply and demand, its true, but I think if people stop buying videos, there just wouldn't be a videographer. At Yankee there wasn't a photographer. Expenses are on the increase for all the vendors and the organizers are charging a lot more to cover the costs of scholarships and other items. Vendor world is a lot more complicated economically than a lot of people realize.

this is not exactly fair to say that people should stop buying tapes if they don't like the price. The problem here is that this is a monopoly! Something that is known not to follow normal economic supply and demand laws.

we, competitors, do not use too many criteria to decide which comps to go to: there are certain events we just can't miss, because they are just too important. And if you go to an important event, you want to know how you danced to be able to talk about the results... charging $12 per dance is really going to add to the price of competing, but for no apparent reason, since I doubt that most of these money will go to the comp organizers...

It is not fair to say that competitors should not buy product in this market if they don't like the price. Why? Because this is a monopoly: if you need the product you don't have another choice. You don't have 2 vendors that are competing for customers and you don't have the opportunity to ask a friend to do it for you. I don't know how to explain, but after all the money spent on lessons and practice and comp fees and transportation, often competitors just need the tape from the comp, to make good use of the money already spent. But if they are spending so much already that doesn't mean it won't matter if they have to go and pay some more. In part because of where these money are going: if they went to the comp organizers as fees, or if they were paid to a world champion to teach me how to dance, I'd have no problem with it. But if they are going to a person with no special skills for 1 minute 40 seconds of work only because he has a monopoly, thats not fair! It just doesn't feel right!

[Joe]

In my experience, "friends" do a shizzy job of taping.

Of course, YMMV with the supposed "professional" videographers, as well.

[alemana]

yep - monopoly.

[chrisjohnston]

Just wanted to let the Pro-ams know that the Rhythm and Smooth Scholorships are going to be held on THursday evening due to the increase in entries.The final schedule should be up by Sunday.Cheers Chris

[standardgirl]

Does anyone know if the tickets they are selling online for $45 for Fri, Sat and Sun nights reserved seating, or just general admission?

[Sunshines Partner]

Does anyone know if the tickets they are selling online for $45 for Fri, Sat and Sun nights reserved seating, or just general admission?

I believe it's General Admission.

[chrisjohnston]

The tickets online do have a reserved seat ,but it is done on a first come first served basis.Competitors in the A,B and C Pro-am Open Smooth and Rhythm Scholorships do not have to buy an extra ticket for Thursday night.If you have any other questions I shall do my best to answer them .Cheers Chris

[DancingJools]

The heat lists are up. Looks like ThreeStep will be dancing.

[standardgirl]

faxed in ticket order form today.
Will be there Fri, Sat, Sun nights as well as Sat during the day!

Kat, I will cheer for you! Woohoo! :D
can't wait!

[Joe]

w00t for ThreeStep!

[Katarzyna]

faxed in ticket order form today.
Will be there Fri, Sat, Sun nights as well as Sat during the day!

Kat, I will cheer for you! Woohoo! :D
can't wait!

THank you! Where is the heat list posted..?

[chrisjohnston]

http://www.manhattandancesport.com/index.cfm/showsection/registration_policies/page.htm
You will find heat lists at above link.Cheers Chris

[Katarzyna]

Thank you! Is there a list of all registered couples per event?

[Larinda McRaven]

nah, you just look up a name and see what that specific couple is dancing. It is okay if you know the names of every possible couple that might be in your event. If you don't know their names then the system is a littel hard to use. It seems that most Accessdance site use this method.

[Katarzyna]

I just did that! It takes quite a bit of time if there are a lot of entries :)

[LauraB]

Yikes! My student and I are dancing in the very first heat, first thing Thursday morning. Can I tell you how NOT excited I am to have to wake up at 5 AM to do my hair and get ready?

[alemana]

YIKES

[standardgirl]

Yikes! My student and I are dancing in the very first heat, first thing Thursday morning. Can I tell you how NOT excited I am to have to wake up at 5 AM to do my hair and get ready?

BTDT......when I competed in bronze pro/am
but I was still EXCITED...I guess since I am the student, not the teacher.

[LauraB]

Oh, I'm excited about the competition... I'm just not a morning person. :P

[alemana]

SO EXCITED about the mambo championships tonight!!! this is going to be such a great competition.

tonight's session is as follows - will be a long night for me! luckily the comp is practically in my backyard.


8:00pm PRO-AM AMERICAN SMOOTH SCHOLARSHIPS (AB&C)
9:00pm PRO-AM AMERICAN RHYTHM SCHOLARSHIPS (AB&C)
9:45pm RISING STAR PROFESSIONAL STANDARD
9:54pm RISING STAR PROFESSIONAL RHYTHM
10:24pm RISING STAR PROFESSIONAL LATIN
10:33pm RISING STAR PROFESSIONAL SMOOTH
10:59pm US NATIONAL PROFESSIONAL MAMBO CHAMPIONSHIPS

[mamboqueen]

Enjoy yourself! I wish I could be there. Let us know results as soon as you can, okay?

[chrisjohnston]

Just posted some of the Pro-am Fun photos on the Supershag Gallery.Cheers Chris

[Sunshines Partner]

Any Results from US Mambo Championoship?

[alemana]

The Mambo Championship winners were Felipe and Carolina Telona.

I don't remember who was second.

Brian Jolly and Kristina third. The hair-tied-back-with-fabric-scraps look should be banned. It's like babushka-in-training.

Pierre-Antoine and new partner Zacharewicz a disappointing fourth. Too much prance, not enough dance.


Carolina was definitely on fire last night, but I don't care for the way she burns. Felipe is sort of unremarkable - last night he was basically a prop for Carolina and her strange fuscia hair.

More later.

[alemana]

I didn't write any of this down so I apologize if I made any mistakes in the placements. I'm pretty sure about the three I did mention, but my brain was addled by several hours of subzero air conditioning.

[Sunshines Partner]

The Mambo Championship winners were Felipe and Carolina Telona.

I don't remember who was second.

Brian Jolly and Kristina third. The hair-tied-back-with-fabric-scraps look should be banned. It's like babushka-in-training.

Pierre-Antoine and new partner Zacharewicz a disappointing fourth. Too much prance, not enough dance.


Carolina was definitely on fire last night, but I don't care for the way she burns. Felipe is sort of unremarkable - last night he was basically a prop for Carolina and her strange fuscia hair.

More later.

Thanks,

I assume that 2nd was either Jessie and Jackie or Fabian and Christina.

[alemana]

Some other notes:

The costuming for the Mambo was amazing. Metallics are in in a big way, especially for all the latin and rhythm dancers, and quite a few of the women were all in bronze, silver or gold. Along with the crazy fake-tanning, it created quite a sparkle on the floor. Anya was wearing an amazing and very sexy gold number that I just loved, and she totally worked it. (She and Luis Grijalva inexplicably did not make the mambo final, but did nab third in rhythm rising star.)

The other big color trend is flourescent, with Kristina and Carolina both in extremely aggressive orange and pink paired with bright, loud patterns. Eye-catching, yes, but not terribly attractive.

[alemana]

yes, something like that. i've never seen either of those couples dance before but had definitely heard of them.

i think it was fabian and christina. i was quite surprised by the second place winners - i didn't think they'd end up so high.

[mamboqueen]

Thanks for the report. You are now officially qualified to write for Dancebeat!

Interesting on the colors! I was thinking last night people would be onto the "neon" look at some point! You really need a great tan to pull that off!

I'm curious about the metallic outfits; what kind of material could those be made of?? It seems like you'd sweat like Nixon in that kind of outfit. Of course, it may be a new way to lose some weight....

I need a latin dress...something that flounces out (ruffle) on the bottom. Anyone have anything hanging around??!!

[alemana]

Oh god, Dancebeat. I'd have to suddenly undo all my years of training in the English language to qualify to write for that thing! Or else start.... using strange and extraneous....punctuation... and learn to endlessly repeat the same phrases over and over. On this night. On this night.... on this night. Etc.

Anyway.

The metallic outfits ranged. Some were sequined or stoned in metallic colors, some had metallic-color fabric, some had both. I don't know that much about costuming, but I see a lot of spandex and man-made fibers and it's no problem for it to be metallicized. You can find that fairly easily.

I was also gratified to see some variation, both in rising star rhythm and latin, in hairstyles for the women. Two of the RS latin women (one of them winner Cheryl Burke) had an almost identical haircut - a midlength SHAG with bangs, jet black. The cuts hit just above the neck and featured nice fringey bangs and tons of razoring all over the head to keep the hair moving. LOVED it. Light years better than the plastered-down look.

In the Mambo championship the majority of the women had their hair down rather than up, so by the end of the group dance/solo spotlight/group dance series the floor was filled with sweaty strands and mussed-up do's, which I FAR prefer to the helmet-head alternative.

[Sunshines Partner]

yes, something like that. i've never seen either of those couples dance before but had definitely heard of them.

i think it was fabian and christina. i was quite surprised by the second place winners - i didn't think they'd end up so high.

In the Rhythm Comp at American Star the beat the Telona's in Mambo.

[alemana]

yeah, i think the Telonas had an especially 'good' night in the eyes of the judges.

it disappoints me that theirs is the standard, right now, for Mambo in the US. carolina is a good to very good dancer, but their performances aren't exciting or dynamic in the way i'd like. she is too clean, too precise, too International Latin for my taste. when she shakes, it's a calculated and well-executed shake, but there's no passion. it never seems to come from inside.

[alemana]

I just remembered - the Mitsuis were second in rising star rhythm.

Sorry for this piecemeal remembering, oy.

[callen]

Alemana, what did you dance? I saw the end of the afternoon session and all of the evening session. I don't know what your name is, though.

I found it funny that I'd also never me laurab, but we ended seated at the same table.

I didn't write down any results, and I'm really bad at names. I'll see what I can remember later today.

Christopher

[alemana]

i didn't dance anything! i haven't competed yet.

when i do, it will be pro-am rhythm, open bronze and open silver.

[Merrylegs]

Thanks, Chris! Did you get any photos from your studio's performance group's show last night (Thursday)? I'd love to see them.

Keep the photos coming, I should have been there with you guys this weekend and I want to live vicariously through the photos. I couldn't get today off as a vacation day :!: :(

Just posted some of the Pro-am Fun photos on the Supershag Gallery.Cheers Chris

[Katarzyna]

Anyone has results for youth / jr or under 21 stardard from tonight?

Very excited to hear about it...

[alemana]

i know standardgirl was there - not sure if she'll have internet access anytime soon, however.

.

[chrisjohnston]

Hi guys, we have just posted all the results with photos (the top 3 in each event) in the SuperShag gallery for Thursday and up to Friday afternoon. We have lots of photographs including the showdance team but I am now in Chicago so we will try and put up as much as possible. We ran the pro-am party last night and it really was a great success, in fact Gary said the competition will make a bigger feature of it next year. I will check in when we have more photographs and results.All the best Chris

[alemana]

chris - i really appreciate that you are putting up the names now. it makes a huge difference. thanks again for the adjustment!

[chrisjohnston]

Glad you like it.Cheers Chris

[chrisjohnston]

Hi guys, just want to let you know that all results through Saturday night are now posted in our gallery with photographs. Because of time limitations we have only posted 1st through 3rd place. Tibor has told me the ballroom was packed last night and the atmosphere for the Pro Latin was electric. All the best, Chris

[Sunshines Partner]

Anyone hane the results of the Pro Rhythm?

[alemana]

Yep!


1. Tony and Inna
2. the Telonas
3. Pierre-Antoine and Zacharewicz



Tony was absolutely coasting all night long. No way did they deserve first - the Telonas were working like nobody's business. Even a student of Tony's, sitting at my table, was openly dismayed.

The Telonas danced as they always do. It wasn't until the third round that you could see any sign of fatigue on Carolina - she's in amazing shape and never slows down. I am not a terrible fan of her dancing but I need to acknowledge the effort and technical ability she does possess.

The third place was a gift, for sure. The fact that the rest of the field was much weaker definitely helped them. They only got fourth in the mambo, which underscored my earlier point about that lady having a long, long way to go in that dance. Third in such a major comp is not bad for their professional debut as a couple, but again, I feel the placements were a statment on him, the fairly high regard to which he is held, not a reflection of the actual dancing.

Brian Jolly and Christina weren't present at the open - not sure if they scratched or what. Would've been interesting to see them in that field.

One couple that kind of won me over by the final round was Jesse DeSoto and Jackie Josephs. She has a unique look that always stands out in a sea of clones. Once I got over admiring the superficial level, I noticed they were dancing quite nicely with solid technique and a lot of speed.

Also impressed with Bree Watson, who wore the prettiest dress of the evening and dances much in the style of Carolina Orlovsky-Telona, but with better posture. This probably bodes well for her in the long run, since the Telonas are judges' favorites.

[standardgirl]

Pro Open Standard: (it was AMAZING!)

1. J&K - winning all dances.
2. Victor & Anna (3 ? 2 2 2)
3. GG (2 ? 3 3 3)
4. Erminio & Liene
5. Igor & Julia
6. Garry & Rita

I don't agree with Victor & Anna taking 3rd in waltz......
I even think Anna looked better than Katusha from time to time on Sunday night.
Anyone else feel the same way?

ps. Katusha looked like she almost cried when they announced the result of the second place. They were soooo happy! :D

[Wildon]

Yep!
1. Tony and Inna
2. the Telonas
3. Pierre-Antoine and Zacharewicz
Tony was absolutely coasting all night long. No way did they deserve first - the Telonas were working like nobody's business. Even a student of Tony's, sitting at my table, was openly dismayed.

The Telonas danced as they always do. It wasn't until the third round that you could see any sign of fatigue on Carolina - she's in amazing shape and never slows down. I am not a terrible fan of her dancing but I need to acknowledge the effort and technical ability she does possess.

This coasting by Tony is also being noticed by the judges, but I guess
no one wants to be the first to mark them where they belong. It even shows in the pro/ams. It seem like there is no real effort, but I guess when you do 100 or mre entries every weekend it takes its toll.

[alemana]

I've seen him in pro-am rounds before and was quite dismayed by his attitude and behavior. I suppose it takes as much energy to be egocentric and dismissive for multiple pro-am rounds as it would to be kind and focused.

[standardgirl]

Well, it's "political" in some respect about Tony's win......I don't really want to say it, and I really don't know much at all about rhythm, but what I heard, Tony supports the comp with lots of pro/am entries......(just what a friend told me, and she's been in this for a long long time. I am not saying anything about anyone's dancing, since I really have no clue about rhythm anywaz...) :wink:

[alemana]

i don't think it's particularly radical to suggest that pure dancing ability on a given night is in fact NOT the only thing that determines placements in dancesport competition, so no worries :)

[ChaChaMama]

I'm not sure I entirely understand or agree with what is being said here, so I'm going to ask for a little clarification.

Naive question, I'm sure, but...
1) What is the incentive to the JUDGES to mark a couple who is supporting the competition higher? They get paid the same salary whether there are 1000 pro-am entries or 8000 pro-am entries, right? So why wouldn't they just call it how they see it?

2) If there really is judge bias, do you think there are couples who are perenially underrated because they don't "play the game" enough? (And if so, which couples do you think deserve higher placements than they have been getting?)

3) Isn't it in fact the case that many U.S. champions past and present don't dance a lot of pro-am? For example, I don't remember Bill Sparks and Kimberly Mitchell (one of my all-time favorite couples) dancing lots of pro-am. Similarly, I don't think Louis van Amstel and any of his partners have ever danced lots of pro-am. So isn't it the case that pure performance does in fact win a lot of the time?

Just asking questions.

ChaChaMama

[alemana]

i'm new to this world and naive too. i'm mostly repeating what i hear people saying all around me - spectators at comps, my coaches and the pros i know, judges and columnists and everyone.

and what i hear over and over is that Playing the Game (whether it be by jumping on the pro-am wagon, taking lots of expensive coachings from judges and tailoring your performance to their advice, pandering to influential officials, kissing tons of ass, etc) matters tremendously. it's true that some top performers are not heavy pro-ammers. but i bet they have other strategies of making themselves popular aside from their flawless feather step or whatever.

obviously nobody is at the professional level without some serious degree of talent, motivation and hard work. but i personally do not believe that those things are the only things that matter at competitions. i've seen that with my own eyes over and over in the past year.

i think part of what it takes to participate and be happy in the competition world is a moderate ability to deny this. selectively.

this is a very simplified and uninformed version of an argument that has been forming in my head for some time. i'm sure many more experienced people will have refutations and refinements to add. but my main point is that pure ability in a given five-dance round is in fact not the only criteria motivating the judging outcome.

[ThreeStep]

Actually, I was in Seattle.

I was supposed to be in Manhattan though. Oh well.

And never drive from San Fran (or anywhere further) to Seattle. It's murder.

ThreeStep
(dead)

[pygmalion]

And never drive from San Fran (or anywhere further) to Seattle. It's murder.

ThreeStep
(dead)

I love those little bylines of yours. Always good for a laugh. 8)

[Angelo]

Pro Open Standard: (it was AMAZING!)

1. J&K - winning all dances.
2. Victor & Anna (3 ? 2 2 2)
3. GG (2 ? 3 3 3)
4. Erminio & Liene
5. Igor & Julia
6. Garry & Rita

I don't agree with Victor & Anna taking 3rd in waltz......
I even think Anna looked better than Katusha from time to time on Sunday night.
Anyone else feel the same way?




I think the marks were pretty fair. I felt Giamperro Giannico and Frantsiska Yordanova deserved their second place marks in waltz and in tango (but only by a very slim margin in tango).

[Angelo]

yes, something like that. i've never seen either of those couples dance before but had definitely heard of them.

i think it was fabian and christina. i was quite surprised by the second place winners - i didn't think they'd end up so high.

Indeed Fabian and Christina placed second . I felt their second place finish was well deserved. They were the best of the solo performers in my opinion but Fabian faltered in his routine during the final group comparison.

[alemana]

say more about why you liked their performance...?

[Sunshines Partner]

yes, something like that. i've never seen either of those couples dance before but had definitely heard of them.

i think it was fabian and christina. i was quite surprised by the second place winners - i didn't think they'd end up so high.

Indeed Fabian and Christina placed second . I felt their second place finish was well deserved. They were the best of the solo performers in my opinion but Fabian faltered in his routine during the final group comparison.

Based on the Pros I've talked to, They should have won the mambo. They also felt that the 5th place in the Rhythm should have been a much higher finish.

[alemana]

interesting! why do they think they should've won versus the Telonas?

and when you say the fifth place in Pro Rhythm - this is the same couple, right?

[Sunshines Partner]

interesting! why do they think they should've won versus the Telonas?

and when you say the fifth place in Pro Rhythm - this is the same couple, right?

Yes the same couple. He has that latin feel and the girl is by far the best in the division based on speed, power, emotion and technique.

[alemana]

fascinating. i would put her way down in the top 6 i saw that weekend - my eye was very rarely drawn to them, and didn't stay there when it was. funny how opinions vary!

[alemana]

but hopefully i'll get to see that same field again soon in the same room, and i can pay more attention to them.

[Angelo]

say more about why you liked their performance...?

I like their sharpness and precision as well as their playful charchterization of the dance when addressing each other as well as the audience

[Angelo]

I should also note that I liked their coreography better as well.

[alemana]

did you see that moment with jackie josephs and jesse desoto, where he plays the drums on her tummy? i thought there would be more of a crowd rx to that, but nada.

[Angelo]

did you see that moment with jackie josephs and jesse desoto, where he plays the drums on her tummy? i thought there would be more of a crowd rx to that, but nada.

I saw that one or two years ago when they did it at the Yankee Classic. The crowd relly responded to it then but it's the kind of thing that, unlike other elements of good quality dancing, seems to get old kind of fast.

[alemana]

i'm surprised how many of these couples use the same tricks and moves over and over. i saw a tape of an old coach of mine dancing with a partner of his who was 3 or 4 partners ago - and i recognized moves in the routine that he still does TODAY! i was like DUDE, mix it up! and i'm not talking about basic choreography, but really DISTINCTIVE moves (like the tummy-drumming) that stay in your memory.

as a spectator, it's exciting when you see it the first, maybe the second time, but after that.. eh. and you know i see the same judges at all the comps in the area - exact same faces, every time.

[LauraB]

The tummy-drumming just went on way too long, that was my problem with it.

[alemana]

i felt the same! i was like, I GET IT, she's an INSTRUMENT.

[alemana]

i really liked her costume though.. that midriff-cut gold mesh top was sexy.

[chrisjohnston]

We have posted action photos of the Pro and Pro-am events from all the Thursday and Friday afternoon sessions from Manhattan.The photos are by Moses Goddard who is the husband of Joan Goddard ,who is one of our Pro-am students.The photos are in the Supershag gallery.Cheers Chris

[alemana]

dancebeat reviews Manhattan Dancesport in the current issue (mine arrived yesterday.)

[Katarzyna]

Will they have the article online? How frequent is Dance Beat? Bi monthly, quarterly?

[alemana]

i think it's six times a year.

[Katarzyna]

would love to see the artice, but I don't subscribe to the paper :(

[alemana]

i should make a lending library out of mine.

[mamboqueen]

Interesting article, eh??? Shirley was all over the "pros who dress like slobs" and someone else (Wendy Johnson, maybe?) wrote about the junior competitors who lacked the decency to walk up and accept their awards from Shirley Ballas. I don't understand why someone would do that -- any guesses?

[Larinda McRaven]

i think it's six times a year.

monthly, usually around the 20th of the month.

[mamboqueen]

Saw your little blurb in there, too, Larinda. Sorry you won't be going to FL.

[alemana]

oh yeah i LOVED the shirley ballas piece - it was fun trying to guess who she was ripping on. initially i imagined van amstel, who always dresses down to a somewhat comical degree at these comps, but i don't think he's doing any pro-am dancing.

if the article about the jr competitors was true - that really sucks.

[DancingJools]

The "pros who dress like slobs" comment might have been addressed to female pros, just as much as male pros. I don't know who she has in mind, but there were two such pros, in a session I attended and in which Shirley Ballas was judging, who were not as groomed as they should be. It could be they were having a bad day (a bad choice of costuming for the woman, a bad hair day for the man), or that they were taking their pro-am tasks less seriously than they would their own pro events. It happens. It's good for a judge to draw their attention to this. I know that in the case of the man, the judge(s) immediately (on that same day) told him he should have been more attentive to his appearance. So I think he learned his lesson, too.

[alemana]

she got down and dirty with the details: "armpit hair." hilarious.

[mamboqueen]

Off the original topic, but on the tangent..

If anyone wants the 0605 and 0505 editions of Dancebeat (a few months old), pm me and I'll mail them to you. No point in chucking them in the recycle bin if someone wants them. First person wins.

[alemana]

pm sent!

[mamboqueen]

That was quick!