Dancing with the Stars - Week 1

[Porfirio Landeros]

Previous Dancing With the Stars Discussions
Preshow and Week 1 Discussion (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=9152)
Week 1 Poll (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=9845)
Week 2 Discussion (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=9909)
Week 2 Poll (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=9927)
Week 3 (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=10023)
Week 4 (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=10123)
Week 5 (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=10219)
Finale (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=10312)

Soundtrack (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=9893t=10122)
Judges & Contestants (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=9928)
In the News (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=10054)
Music (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=10036)
Sold Out (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=9883)
Free Tickets (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=9233)




I thought it might be cool to see how all-we-dancers vote compared to the public... maybe we can do one of these polls for each week?

[pygmalion]

Do you want to know our favorite, who we thought danced/performed best overall, or who we voted for online? (In my case, three different answers :wink: :lol: )

[pygmalion]

Too late. I already voted. :tongue: :lol: :lol:

[standardgirl]

Go John O'Hurley and Charlotte Jorgensen!! :D

[Big10]

Do you want to know our favorite, who we thought danced/performed best overall, or who we voted for online? (In my case, three different answers :wink: :lol: )
In the poll on this thread, I selected John O'Hurley & Charlotte J. because I thought they did the best performance this past week.

When I voted online at the ABC website, I voted for Kelly and her partner since I thought they got screwed by the judges (and I guess I'm not alone in that belief :wink: ).

[pygmalion]

Ditto that. And I called in a vote for good old Evander, just because I want to see him another week. :oops: :lol: :lol:

I guess that makes Evander my (sentimental) favorite, John/Charlotte the couple I thought did best overall, and Kelly my online vote. 8) So yes, you got it right. I sent two votes into ABC, and neither was for the couple I thought did best.

Voting is complicated... :roll: :lol:

[discovery]

Do you want to know our favorite, who we thought danced/performed best overall, or who we voted for online? (In my case, three different answers :wink: :lol: )

I agree and I think a lot of people will have different answers depending on exactly what you're asking. How about we add some more precision to this and create three separate polls? For example:

1. Who you thought danced the best
2. Who you actually voted for
3. Who was your favorite (not necessarily who you would pick to win in a competition)

I think we definitely have the numbers to fill up three polls and it would be interesting to see how they differ.

[pygmalion]

Any more votes? 8)

[tsb]

john's last name is misspelled but that didn't keep most of us from voting for him. IMO he actually led the most in terms of connection as well as doing the actual cha cha basic. i liked rachel hunter's routine the best of the women. i was also surprised to see how short miss april 1997 actually is.

[Joe]

You don't need to be tall to look good in lingerie. ;)

[tsb]

yeah, but it's easier to dance waltzes & foxtrots with someone closer to your own height - not that they actually did many steps together. there was one move at the end of her routine where her feet came off the floor and she looked more like a piece of furniture being muscled around than a partner & equal on the floor. and they scored her accordingly.

not that they did her any favors by partnering her with that guy.

[tsb]

i suppose the reply you were expecting was: "she'd look good if she weren't wearing any lingerie at all".

[rpungin]

Here are the recaps of each couple's routines so you can justify your votes:
http://journals.rpungin.fotki.com/dance/entry/wqbkwkdfksd/

Raphael

[pygmalion]

Thanks, rpungin. :D

[Porfirio Landeros]

i was also surprised to see how short miss april 1997 actually is.Jonathan was wearing Cuban heels to dance with her, so that she didn't look [too much] taller than him in her heels, so she really wasn't all that short.

[tsb]

i was also surprised to see how short miss april 1997 actually is.Jonathan was wearing Cuban heels to dance with her, so that she didn't look [too much] taller than him in her heels, so she really wasn't all that short.

jonathan's height is irrelevant to my comment; my impression is that the magazine in question tends to feature subjects leaning towards the amazonian in height. i am now aware that they have actually falsified that data at least once; someone featured backin the 90's passed away under somewhat mysterious causes recently (listed as natural causes when it was clearly a drug overdose) and it turned out that she was only about 5' while she had been listed as being 5'6". being curious about it, i googled miis april 1997's data sheet and found, to my surprise, that she had been listed at 5'3" the whole time.

[callen]

I thought Charlotte did well in keeping the routine simple and letting John O'Hurley be charismatic. He looked like he was having fun. I didn't vote with ABC, but I'm marking them here.

i was also surprised to see how short miss april 1997 actually is.Jonathan was wearing Cuban heels to dance with her, so that she didn't look [too much] taller than him in her heels, so she really wasn't all that short.

Porfirio, you're mixing up the women. A little google-searching reveals that Kelly Monaco (who did look really short) was Miss April.

Christopher

[Porfirio Landeros]

Porfirio, you're mixing up the women.Hee hee... you're right! Looks like I should have been subscribing to other magazines besides PC Magazine and Amateur Dancers.

[pygmalion]

Such as? :eyebrow: :wink: :lol:

[smoozer]

You don't need to be tall to look good in lingerie. ;)
So true :D

[tsb]

I thought Charlotte did well in keeping the routine simple and letting John O'Hurley be charismatic. He looked like he was having fun. I didn't vote with ABC, but I'm marking them here.

i was also surprised to see how short miss april 1997 actually is.Jonathan was wearing Cuban heels to dance with her, so that she didn't look [too much] taller than him in her heels, so she really wasn't all that short.

Porfirio, you're mixing up the women. A little google-searching reveals that Kelly Monaco (who did look really short) was Miss April.

Christopher

and according to the abc website, she's actually only 5'1" - not 5'3" but still looked a lot shorter than the bachelorette who is listed at 5'2".

[Porfirio Landeros]

I just watched the replay of the show (and managed to record it on DVD this time) and I stand by my vote for John and Charlotte. They had the basic character of the dance, some hints of developing technique, the perfect level of choreography, and GREAT charisma. I also still believe that Jonathan and Rachael are in it for the LONG run.

[tsb]

I just watched the replay of the show (and managed to record it on DVD this time) and I stand by my vote for John and Charlotte. They had the basic character of the dance, some hints of developing technique, the perfect level of choreography, and GREAT charisma. I also still believe that Jonathan and Rachael are in it for the LONG run.

they're my two favorites as well. and rachel hunter is 5'10".

[Joe]

i suppose the reply you were expecting was: "she'd look good if she weren't wearing any lingerie at all".
Not at all.

[tsb]

i suppose the reply you were expecting was: "she'd look good if she weren't wearing any lingerie at all".
Not at all.

most women do look better IN lingerie. hugh hefner does the average woman such a disservice.

[Purr]

My favorite routine was by Joey and Ashly. But I voted online for John and Charlotte.

[mamboqueen]

most women do look better IN lingerie

That applies to men as well. :wink:

[Gumby]

I could barely watch it. I think I must have been channeling Chris cause I would have given my life for one decent box or any basic pattern done with a minimal level of competance. God help me but all I could think was this looks like every objection I've ever heard about Pro/Am mutliplied by ten. Having said all that I though John and Charlotta were the bright point of the evening. He looked more like a begining dancer at a studio exihibition that knows he doesn't know what he's doing but is out to have all the fun he can anyway. The rest of the them were taking themselves waay to seriously.

[mamboqueen]

People doing Pro/Am don't go to open routines in 5 weeks, though. You're right, they would have been better off doing some basic stuff that looked good, but then the audience would probably be bored to tears.

[dTas]

and since its on national TV the audience is quite large. they have to make the dancing interesting enough to pull the ratings.

any opinions on whether or not this show is promoting or hurting dancing in the US?

[Gumby]

I think what I object to the most is that it's like the Bob Rosse method. Yes you too can learn to create art in ten minutes. AAARRRGH. It's art not popcorn. You can't learn to make a really good cup of tea in ten minutes.

You know that dance studio's are going to be invaded by the "I want to dance like Kelly." crowd and when they find out they have to actually work years to attain competancy a big chunk of them are going to get snapped by the franchise studio from hell - who will promise them the moon and a designer dress - the will spend a ton of money on nothing for about a year and them spend the next ten years bad mouthing the entire industry.

I think I had too much coffee this morning.

[Laura]

I think it's too early to tell. Right now the only opinions on this topic I've read anywhere are from people who think it might help or think it might hurt, but there's no hard data yet.

[leftfeetnyc]

Having said all that I though John and Charlotta were the bright point of the evening. He looked more like a begining dancer at a studio exihibition that knows he doesn't know what he's doing but is out to have all the fun he can anyway. The rest of the them were taking themselves waay to seriously.

I think that's the key point of this show that both the contestants and ourselves are forgetting.

Who cares if these people aren't that good. How does that effect us? It doesn't change dance for us or how it's done. We're not expecting these celebrities to be the next big rising star dancers.

As already stated, the quality of dancing is something we as dancers notice...not something non-dancers notice. If the celebrities don't look like they are having fun, yes it could keep people from giving it a try. If they look like they are having a really good time and a lot of fun, it can only enhance the interest in the dance.

But it will never hurt ballroom. People who want to do it are still going to do it. Chances are, with a bad show or without the show at all, fence sitters would never make it to a studio anyway, so it's not like the numbers of new dancers is going to go down just because of a mediocre tv show.

[Big10]

You know that dance studio's are going to be invaded by the "I want to dance like Kelly." crowd and when they find out they have to actually work years to attain competancy a big chunk of them are going to get snapped by the franchise studio from hell - who will promise them the moon and a designer dress - the will spend a ton of money on nothing for about a year and them spend the next ten years bad mouthing the entire industry.
How is that different from any other popular movie/television show where dancing is featured? My guess is that a large number of people (maybe 25% or more?) get the "final push" to enter a dance studio based on witnessing a singular great dance, whether in person or through the media. I'm not a dance instructor, though, so maybe someone who does some instructing can shed some light on the comments he/she hears from new students.

[robin]

While I have no solid data, all anecdotal evidence here in the UK suggests that the shows have greatly increased interest in dancing. Beginners classes are much more popular than they were, despite a woeful lack of advertising by the dance-studios...

What this particular TV programme shows in my opinion is that:
- dancing is great fun
- dance training is even more fun but also hard work
- anyone (however un-coordinated) can learn to dance, and have fun
- dancing makes for a good performance and good entertainment

In the UK too, I've heard some "serious" dancers say that they don't like it, that people should be doing basics rather than "flashy steps", that they should show some "real" dancing on TV instead, that people will go into dance studios wanting to do something "fun" as though that was a crime...

In my opinion, this programme is the best thing that happened to dancing in the last 30 years. It has brought it back to "the masses". It's popular with kids, teenagers, young adults and the older generation. It gets rid of the stuffy image and dispels the myth that dancing is something that has to be boring for the first 5 years before one is allowed to have fun...

And even for us "purists" it must be a good thing that 10s of millions of people learn the difference between a Foxtrot and a Paso-Doble... that people realise ballroom is not only for the over 60s, that the professional dancers are fantastic athletes, etc. etc.

Of course it won't create a huge number of top competitors by itself, but it will spark interest. It's up to the dancing community whether and how to use this interest. Local dancesport chapters should have an open day, set up a course for newcomers etc. etc. I think this is yet another great opportunity, probably much bigger than "Shall we dance" or "Dirty dancing 2", and I hope the various clubs/chapters/studios are going to make the most of it, because they're never going to get that much free publicity again!

Besides all that, I thought the UK show was one of the most enjoyable TV formats of the past few years. It was fun, you got to see a whole new side of the celebreties, it was not about humliating someone, nor about violence and disputes like all other reality shows seem to be. It was simply good entertainment, and I can't wait for the next series here!

[tsb]

most women do look better IN lingerie

That applies to men as well. :wink:

i don't pay much attention to cross dressers myself.

[Laura]

Local dancesport chapters should have an open day, set up a course for newcomers etc. etc. I think this is yet another great opportunity, probably much bigger than "Shall we dance" or "Dirty dancing 2", and I hope the various clubs/chapters/studios are going to make the most of it, because they're never going to get that much free publicity again!

Here's the unfortunate thing about that. Since Arthur Murray International is a sponsor of "Dancing with the Stars," there's probably only so much non-AM organizations can do invoking the name of the show. When the English-language version of "Shall We Dance?" came out, some USA Dance clubs wanted to do something to capitalize on it, but a memo went around saying that the only clubs who could do anything were those that were in "markets" that didn't "compete" with Arthur Murray since Arthur Murray International had locked up some kind of exclusive advertising and promotional agreement. In California, for instance, the only city on that list was Fresno.

I don't know if something like that is in force now, though.

Of course, there are ways around it, too.

[robin]

Why would you have to invoke the name of the show?? There is no way anyone can prohibit you from promoting ballroom or latin american dancing.

If you think people can't make the connection (which I'm sure they can) you can always try "Dance like a star" or "Learn to be a dancing star" or whatever....

I just think that now is a time when many people would react to seeing an advertisement for a dance school/studio/club/chapter/... and there is no reason to just let the big franchises cash in on it...

[Porfirio Landeros]

... and there is no reason to just let the big franchises cash in on it...In the case of Shall We Dance, the non-Arthur Murray International (AMI) dance world was not able to do things we would normally do, like dance at the premier. We actually have a great rapport with the theaters in town, and they said that they had received a bulletin from Arthur Murray and the theater home office that they could ONLY use Arthur Murray dancers to promote the event. In this town, there weren't any Arthur Murray performers anyway, so it was a lose-lose situation. AMI bought out the chance for anyone to give the public a live performance... great job :P

I don't know what, if any, promo deal AMI has with this show, other than the banner ads on the Dancing With The Stars website, which in fine print say "no celebrity endorsement implied", yet, the banner ad says something like "Learn to Dance Where the Stars Go" or something like that... sounds implied to me ;)

[Joe]

hugh hefner does the average woman such a disservice.
How's that?

[tsb]

hugh hefner does the average woman such a disservice.
How's that?

the average woman does not look like the typical playmate, but that's often what a typical guy imagines the typical woman to look like naked. that places a pretty unreasonable expectation on women.

[Porfirio Landeros]

I think I set this poll to expire sometime today, so it looks like John/Charlotte are the leaders (according to the Dance-Forums viewer poll).

Thanks for voting :-)

[Warren J. Dew]

any opinions on whether or not this show is promoting or hurting dancing in the US?
To the extent that it's having any effect, my guess is that it's hurting.

I don't think we're ever going to see a significant percentage of the general population doing pro-am competition - it's just too expensive. I think the number of viewers of this show that jump up and go to the local dance studio to plunk down their $10,000 so they can dance like the celebrities in this competition will be small. The format of the show doesn't at all encourage viewers to think of themselves in the place of the dancers - in fact, the use of celebrities and professionals practically screams, "these people are nothing like you, the viewer". This isn't the image ballroom needs if it is to become an everyday activity.

What would be good for ballroom dancing would be for lots of ordinary people - by which I mean millions, not thousands - to learn enough ballroom to handle themselves socially and dance regularly. I think that takes an entirely different kind of publicity, and a different approach to teaching, as well.

That said, even a very small fraction of the viewers going in to studios and signing up for pro-am lessons will be a noticeable boost from the studios' perspective.

[mamboqueen]

Some people might think "if he can do it, I can do it." Who knows?

When I meet people and they find out I dance, they always say "oh, I used to watch that on tv" and they genuinely enjoyed watching it. I think if dancing gets more airtime, it certainly can't hurt.

[pygmalion]

I do think that the attitudes portrayed by the dance pros will not be a plus for ballroom in the US. (Yes, I understand that the attitudes were, to a great extent, cutting room caricatures. But most people watching probably don't know that. :? )

[Warren J. Dew]

When I meet people and they find out I dance, they always say "oh, I used to watch that on tv" and they genuinely enjoyed watching it. I think if dancing gets more airtime, it certainly can't hurt.
I often get the same reaction - and the show that they "used to watch" was always PBS' "Championship Ballroom Dancing". I agree that show was a good influence: it presented dancing in a sympathetic, positive way, and helped the general public view the activity sympathetically.

This show presents ballroom rather less sympathetically - witness the fact that they are willing to edit all context from quotes to get more "sound bite" impact. If we get to the point where this show shapes the general public's views, people will be making a lot of negative assumptions - for example, they'll probably assume that your instructor is an egocentric guy who thinks he's god's gift to women, since the show seems to portray all male instructors that way. Instead of the generally sympathetic response we got from viewers of the PBS show when we mention that we're ballroom competitors, we're going to get knowing smirks based on false assumptions.

I would also note that even "Championship Ballroom Dancing" only resulted in lots of people remarking "I've seen that", not lots of people remarking "yeah, I'm a dancer too because of that show".

[mamboqueen]

they'll probably assume that your instructor is an egocentric guy who thinks he's god's gift to women

I agree. I don't think that was a wise choice. They seem to be attempting to add some "flavor" to the show to make it appealing and I think that was a backfire. Perhaps a little competitive banter between the pros would have been a little more endearing.

I agree on the PBS thing, too, not having people run out and sign up. I think the new program advertised on the Yankee Classic webpage (some kind of boot camp) might be a little better at getting people to take a stab at it. They'll be able to relate to those people a lot better.

[Porfirio Landeros]

I would also note that even "Championship Ballroom Dancing" only resulted in lots of people remarking "I've seen that", not lots of people remarking "yeah, I'm a dancer too because of that show".Even though ballroom dancing in the popular media may not result in individuals actually taking up the sport, it can benefit the industry anyway, in the same way there are football/baseball fans that are NOT going to (or be able to) play for the Raiders or Dodgers, or even on their local community softball team. Those that actually do the sport gain celebrity, endorsements and respect, so those of us have have chosen to be the dancers could actually aspire to being on trading cards someday ;).

I would not be surprise if already Jonathan Roberts or Louis van Amstel are starting to get chased by fans at Starbucks (if they can recognize Louis w/o his pony tail splint).

[robin]

When I meet people and they find out I dance, they always say "oh, I used to watch that on tv" and they genuinely enjoyed watching it. I think if dancing gets more airtime, it certainly can't hurt.
I often get the same reaction - and the show that they "used to watch" was always PBS' "Championship Ballroom Dancing". I agree that show was a good influence: it presented dancing in a sympathetic, positive way, and helped the general public view the activity sympathetically.


I have no idea what exactly the PBS show included, but given the title, i would assume it showed professional or at least top amateur ballroom dancing. I could imagine that that sort of show would not result in people wanting to take up dancing, because:

- it was probably watched primarily by the over 50s...
- and a much smaller audience than DWTS 13 million.
- it was pretty dull to the uninitiated
- it gave the impression "it's something I could never learn"
- it showed dancing as something very serious and difficult and for "experts", rather than fun and enjoyable for everyone

DWTS is totally different in all those respects. Firstly, it appears to be very popular. Due to the celebrities and the voting, it is discussed on national media, and if the US is anything like the UK also in the workplace/school/home/... It has strong appeal with younger audiences probably more than any other previous ballroom dancing programme.

It'll be interesting to see what happens in the next few weeks. In the UK we got newspaper articles about dancing, about how it's good for your health, how dancers are really young and fit and attractive, etc. etc. You had some of the celebrities saying how it was the best thing they done in their lives, how they'd keep doing it, how much fun it was etc. etc.

One thing I think is important to bear in mind, is that rather than changing people's perception of ballroom dancing, for a lot of people it'll be the first time they even *think* about it. Since the show has been on in the UK I have not met one person who couldn't associate anything with the terms ballroom or latin american dancing... Before the show that was probably the majority response!!

[wyllo]

This is a great time to get ballroom in the media and I can tell you from experience that your local newspaper would love it if you sent them a story idea about ballroom that has a timely tie-in. If you know a couple that met in a ballroom dance class or a high school that teaches ballroom dance - call or e-mail the city editor of your town's paper and tell them about it. The small to medium papers are always looking for stories about local people doing interesting things.

You don't have to send a formal press release, just send a note saying you saw this show on ABC which reminded you of some local dancers. If you can give them specific contact info. like names and phone numbers you will increase the chances of the paper following up on the story.