Stretches for Dancers

[pygmalion]

Just thought of a new topic, because I woke up totally stiff this morning. Lots of dance practice well into the night.

Does anyone out there have a favorite stretch, series of stretches or resource of information on stretching for dancers? Help!

[Swing Kitten]

Don't pull something while stretching... save that for the dance floor!

I mostly focus on quads and calves.

[pygmalion]

I like the quad and hamstring stretches, too. And here is a cool neck stretch I use a lot, since I hold stress in my neck, which is terrible for the posture. :x

Neck Stretch: Sit on the floor with your legs relaxed but straight out in front of you (some flex in the knee is fine). Place one hand under the thigh on the same side of your body (i.e. right hand, right thigh) Place the opposite hand on top of your head, and gently pull your head toward that shoulder ( in this case, left shoulder). Straight down is fine, but if you shift your head around a little, you can generally find a spot where you can feel the stretch relieve more tension. Hold for 20 - 30 seconds, then release and do the other side. Yummy stretch! :D

[SwinginBoo]

Good one Jenn. That helped me a lot. I've had considerable pain in my back and neck lately.

I like to do calf and hamstring stretches. It helps with running and dancing, since I tend to get really stiff there. To stretch my calves I lean forward pressing both hands into the wall, bring one foot forward -- knee bent, and put other leg backwards -- pressing calf into the floor.

For hamstrings I sit on the floor, right leg straight out, left leg turned inwards on the floor so that bottom of left foot is touching the inside of right leg. Lean forward and grab hold of right foot. This is a good one.

So relaxing

[SDsalsaguy]

Taken from 24 Hour Fitness:

Stretching is a very important part of health and fitness and often overlooked or avoided for various reasons. There are many different ways to stretch a muscle but these are the easiest and safest that we've found.

General info:
§ Never stretch a cold muscle... make sure you have warmed-up for at least 8-12 minutes
§ Get permission from your doctor if you've had any previous injuries
§ Stop immediately if you feel any pain
§ Do not bounce or jerk... stretch using a slow, controlled movement
§ Breath and relax
§ Hold each stretch for 20 or 30 seconds in the beginning, up to 60 seconds or longer if you're more advanced

UPPER BODY:

Arms

Deltoids (shoulder) Either seated or standing, lift your left arm across the front of your body at about chest height. Place your right arm below your left arm at or slightly above the elbow. Keeping your left arm straight, bend your right elbow and gently pull your left arm across your chest. Repeat with the other side.

Biceps (front of arm) Stand facing a wall, about a foot away. Extend your left arm parallel to the floor or slightly above with your palm against the wall. Slowly turn your body to the right, away from the wall. Repeat with the other side. This is also an excellent stretch for chest muscles.

Triceps (back of arm) Sit or stand tall, with good posture. Place your left arm behind your head with your palm facing your body. With your right hand, gently push your left elbow down. Repeat with the other side.

Wrists Interlock your fingers. Lift your arms above your head with your palms facing the ceiling. Without arching your back, gently push your hands towards the ceiling and slightly back. This is also an excellent stretch for shoulders and elbows.

Core/Torso

Chest In addition to the Biceps Stretch above, you can also stand or sit upright and place your hands on the small of your back. Slowly bring your elbows together behind your back, until you feel a stretch in your chest muscles.

Back
Upper
Start on your hands and knees. Pull your belly button in towards your spine and arch your back away from the floor. At the same time, lower your head towards the floor. Slowly reverse the motion to let your back sag towards the floor. At the same time, lift your head and tilt your pelvis towards the floor. This is Hatha yoga position known as the cat stretch.
Lower
Lie on your stomach with your feet together and your hands on the floor at shoulder height. While relaxing your back and butt, slowly push your upper body away from the floor to increase the stretch. This is also a Hatha yoga position known as the cobra. Alternate position: Sit on the floor with your right leg extended. Bend you left knee in a 90 degree angle and place your left foot just outside your right leg. Rest your right elbow on the outside of your left knee and gently rotate your torso to the left. Repeat with other leg.

Side Stand with your feet shoulder width apart and your knees slightly bent. Without bending forward or backward at the waist, slowly bend to the left until you feel a stretch along your right side. You can keep your arms on your hips for support, or extended over your head to increase the stretch.

LOWER BODY:

Legs
Quadriceps
Lie on your side with your top knee bent. With your hand, grab the top of the foot and gently pull your heel towards your butt. Repeat with the other leg. Alternate position: Lie on your stomach and bend your left knee. Grab your left foot with your right hand and gently pull your heel towards your butt. Repeat with the other leg.
Hamstrings
Standing, place your left heel on a bench or chair that is approximately 18 inches off the floor. Gently lean forward at the waist. Repeat with the other leg. Alternate position: sit on the floor with your left leg extended and toes pointing upward. Bend your right leg and place the bottom of your foot against the inside of your left leg. Keeping your back straight and bending at the waist, gently lean forward. Repeat with the other leg. Both of these stretches also affect the lower back and calf muscles.
Calves
Stand facing a wall or tree with your left foot closer to the wall/tree and your right leg further back (right leg should be straight). Keeping your right heel on the ground, slowly bring your left knee and hips forward. Be sure to keep your back straight as you move your body toward the wall/tree. Repeat with other leg.
Iliotibial Band (IT Band)
Lie on your back with your right leg extended and your left knee bent. Place your right hand on the outside of your left knee and gently pull your left leg over your right leg and towards the floor. Be sure to keep your right leg straight and your shoulders flat. Repeat with other leg. This stretch also affects the hip flexors.

Hip Flexors Kneel on your left knee on the floor with your right knee bent in a 90 degree angle and your right foot flat on the floor. Gently lean forward over your right foot while keeping your back and torso straight. Repeat with other leg. Alternate position: lie on your back with your knees bent in a 90 degree angle and your feet flat on the floor. Cross your left leg and rest your left foot just above your right knee. Gently pull your right knee towards your chest. Repeat with other leg. This stretch also affects your butt.

[Sarah]

After one too many posts asking how to learn to do the splits a guy called Brad Appleton did a bit of research and came up with the rec.martial-arts stretching faq. You might find it useful.


http://www.bradapp.net/docs/rec/stretching/


Cheers
Sarah

[danceguy]

Does anyone out there have a favorite stretch, series of stretches or resource of information on stretching for dancers? Help!
Hi Jenn,

Have you ever taken any Yoga classes? I've met a lot of dancers who complement their study of dance with yoga practice...in one group I used to belong to one of the students was an avid dancer and performer...one of my inspirations for learning to dance actually. :)

I've been doing yoga for about 5 years...and it's really helped with my total body flexibility, plus it is so relaxing. Once you learn the basics you can customize it to your particular needs...whch is great for the day after a late night dance-athon...give it a try if you haven't already! :wink:

[SDsalsaguy]

After one too many posts asking how to learn to do the splits a guy called Brad Appleton did a bit of research and came up with the rec.martial-arts stretching faq. You might find it useful.

Cheers
Sarah
Wow Sarah, fantastic resource! Thanks!!! :notworth:

[pygmalion]

Thanks for all the great suggestions, guys. :D

Yes, I do an occasional yoga class, and they are great. But I can only fit it in from time to time, because the rest of my fitness routing is really ambitious. There's only so much time. *shrug* :?

[pygmalion]

By the way, there was an article on yoga as the perfect exercise for dancers -- I believe in a recent issue of Dance Teacher or Dance magazine? Did anybody happen to read it? I just saw the caption while I was waiting for my dance lesson to start, and didn't get to read the whole article.

[danceguy]

There's only so much time...can I ever relate to that! So many hobbies...so many dance steps to practice...24 hours a day just isn't enough anymore.

I try to always stretch as needed throughout the day...especially working with computers...I'll tense up right away if I don't.

Also...have you ever tried Somatics? There are a lot of quick exercises you can do for a good stretch...I'm just not very good at explaining them by writing... :shock:

[pygmalion]

Somatics? No, but I will look into it. Quick streteches I can fit into the rest of my day are exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks. :D

[Swing Kitten]

--I forsee the use of google in this thread's very near future!--

[SDsalsaguy]

--I forsee the use of google in this thread's very near future!--
What else do your psychic talents reveal SK? :wink:

[pygmalion]

Oh fine! Just treat me bad! Just for that, I'm going to look it up, and not report back! So there. :tongue: :lol:

[SDsalsaguy]

Oh fine! Just treat me bad! Just for that, I'm going to look it up, and not report back! So there. :tongue: :lol:
Do you promise??? :D

:wink: :lol: :tongue:

[pygmalion]

Ha! Now I know what it is, and you don't! :tongue: :lol:

[SDsalsaguy]

And of course you are the only one who is allowed to google! How could I have forgot??? :shock: :shock: :shock: What was I thinking???

[pygmalion]

No, I'm not the only one allowed. ... I'm seemingly the only one who does it, at least for the sake of the forums. Ha! :shock: :lol: :tongue:

[Swing Kitten]

What else do your psychic talents reveal SK? :wink:

The Great SwingKittino predicts that Jenn will not hold a grudge for poking friendly fun at her google enthusiasm (which I share btw).

At least she should hold it very long :hope:

[pygmalion]

Grudge. Me? Never. :D I'm too busy googling to hold a grudge. :lol: Gotta concentrate on one higher-level brain function at a time. :lol:

[pygmalion]

And just to show there're no hard feelings ... :D

Somatics appears to be the process of retraining your brain to create an automatic relaxation response in your muscles, rather than the usual constriction response. SG, have you read the book, or do you have other references? Thumbs up? :D

[suek]

So I read through the first page of posts (before the googling took over) this morning. Before heading out to a 4.5-hour Chicago Steppin' workshop.

I tried a few things I read here and on the martial arts stretching links, and I'm going to keep arriving at class 5-10 minutes early to warm up. I feel great!

This is what I did:

Starting from my fingers and working down (you can start with toes and work up), I rotated my fingers, then wrists, then elbows, arms, shoulders, neck, head, waist, hips, legs, knees, ankles, toes.

Then i did a song's worth of aerobic dance warmups: triple steps, scissors, etc.

Then I stretched for about five minutes.

About ten minutes total and -- what a concept -- warming up made me feel looser than usual and kept me pain-free through the whole workshop.

Yay.

Thanks for all the posts,

Best,

Sue

[danceguy]

Somatics appears to be the process of retraining your brain to create an automatic relaxation response in your muscles, rather than the usual constriction response. SG, have you read the book, or do you have other references? Thumbs up?

Hi Jenn,

Whoops...I had forgotten all about this thread, and a thumbs up for sure! :)

Somatics is an actual form of body/mind movement...much like yoga...in fact it could be called a modern offshoot of it. It was created by a man named Thomas Hanna, who is now deceased but his widow has carried the work forward. I was fortunate enough to study with her and the exercises she showed me I still practice to this day. If you find a practitioner who teaches Somatics, they can give you specialized exercises to practice, and they are really great for a quick stretch.

Basically, from what little I know, and as you found with an online search, the goal of Somatics is to retrain your body from old patterns and to then release them. A lot of it involves pushing a particular stubborn area of the body past its already tensed point, thereby releasing it.

Another modality to look up is Ortho-Bionomy, it is great stuff, an offshot of Osteopathy.

Hmm, here's a quick stretch you can try, and I'll do my best to type it out here. (it would 10 be times easier to show someone in person!).

1. Sit on the edge of a table, bench or bed with your legs dangling, and preferably not touching the floor. The edge of the object you're sitting on should be on the underside of your knees.

2. Using just one leg at a time, place your hands underneath your knee for support, and then inhale (through your nose) as you lift that leg up as high as you can from the knee (just the last joint of your leg). As you feel those powerful dancer's legs getting a good stretch, hold for a bit, or just release VERY slowly as you exhale through your mouth, bringing your leg back to its starting position. You want to do this about 3 times each side, the slower the better.

3. Variations - When lifting from the knee, twist your foot to the same side as your particular appendage you are using (left for left, right for right) as far as it will comfortably go...this will give your Psoas muscle and lower back a good stretch. Conversly, try turning the toe the opposite way for a differernt stretch. Again, you may want to do each side 3 times with each of these motions. Also, you can try doing all of these laying down.

I hope this is clear enough for you! I do this particular exercise before and inbetween songs at dances. :)

Best

SG

[pygmalion]

Cool. Thanks. I will try. No problem finding someplace where my legs will dangle off the edge. I'm pretty short. Virtually any chair will do. :lol:

[Gator]

Does anyone out there have a favorite stretch, series of stretches or resource of information on stretching for dancers? Help!
:) Lots of them. Anything that stretches hip flexors, hammstrings, inner thighs. The fav. one that works the most of the muscles is hmm, donno offical name for it, but anyway, "Roadkill Split" - start in the side split and them move the body down to the floor, as flat as you can. Very good for turnouts, hip flexors, thighs, back, you name it.
Side bends are also important part, improves ribcage isolations, back.
Drop splits look cool when you dance, although kindda dangerous.

As of the 24 hour fitness instructions, it's rather how to not get stretched than anything else.

I do splits with cold muscles, bounce, whatever else. As long as you train right you don't need warmup, not that it'll hurt but you may not always have time. And if you stop every time you feel pain, why will the muscle stretch anyways ;)

The link provided in this thread had a reference to PNF and isometrics, which IMHO are one of the best ways to develp strong AND flexible muscles.

[SwinginBoo]

The fav. one that works the most of the muscles is hmm, donno offical name for it, but anyway, "Roadkill Split" - start in the side split and them move the body down to the floor, as flat as you can. Very good for turnouts, hip flexors, thighs, back, you name it.
Side bends are also important part, improves ribcage isolations, back.
Drop splits look cool when you dance, although kindda dangerous.

I do splits with cold muscles, bounce, whatever else. As long as you train right you don't need warmup, not that it'll hurt but you may not always have time. And if you stop every time you feel pain, why will the muscle stretch anyways ;)

This is a side tangent, but is it possible to train your body to do a full split past a certain age?

[Taita]

This is a side tangent, but is it possible to train your body to do a full split past a certain age?

hmmm.... girls doing splits.....

err, back to my original thought :wink:



Here's a favorite of mine which may work for you:

Static Back Contraction

Basically, you just lie on your back with your feet propped up so that your knees are at a 90 degree angle to the floor. Relax your hips, it's ok if your feet splay outwardly. Keep your hands comfortably relaxed to your sides with your palms facing upward.

Next.....
.
.
.
Just relax and breath slowly. Soon, you may feel your tired aching shoulders and back slowly release into the floor and you may feel your entire body sink into place. You may also find your shoulders slowly lowering to the floor and the muscles of your neck releasing as well. Do for at least 5 minutes. If you are in pain, do until the pain subsides.

Side Effects:

Muscular pain in your body may cease as your muscles relax into the pose. You may also find it easier to dance with all of your muscles relaxed and in proper alignment. :)

[Vince A]

Back last June or July, I received a PM from a ballet dancer from NY. He read my question on how to "loosen up the upper body," and responded.

He sent some great exercises in two PMs. I've been doing them pretty regularly for a while, and then religiously lately since I want to compete again real soon.

I've sent him a PM asking his permission (courtesy) to reprint what he wrote. I hope he still is watching the DF. If I don't hear from him in a few days, I'll copy it and pass it along to you. These exercises need to be shared!

Vince

[Gator]

This is a side tangent, but is it possible to train your body to do a full split past a certain age?
105% possible. I started seriously stretching at 30. Around a year I didn't go far with standard "no pain, relax and wait" instrutions. BTW I was told by many that it was too late, etc. Later I asked a doctor, friend of mine, if there was any medical reason for not being able to split, she said none, unless you have degenerative hip joint disease or something like that.

After discovering PNF and some more extreme techniques I managed full side splits in around a year, month later I could to suspended splits. Front splits were a lot easier for the record. And that's not the fastest result, my hips were real stiff at the begining.

Side splits for the girls will be easier because of their anatomy specifics :)

Anyway, my point is don't believe to those who say the age is a problem, as long as you want it and joints are ok you can do it.

[SwinginBoo]

Please excuse my ignorance, but what's PNF?

[Vince A]

Please excuse my ignorance, but what's PNF?
Here you go Boo . . .
http://www.cmcrossroads.com/bradapp/docs/rec/stretching/stretching_4.html#SEC36

[SwinginBoo]

Thanks Vince! :wink:

[norsie]

Hey,

I'm new to the boards, but I'm a theatre student and I have very limited background in movement technique, ballet, jazz and modern dance (I'll be studying tap this semester). As a little kid I took as much dance as I could, but that was also very limited because I grew up in the middle of nowhere South Dakota. I've always wanted to dance, especially ballet and pointe.

I guess what I'm trying to ask is that I have an opportunity to take some classes next year in the city that I'm moving too, but I'm horribly out of shape and not flexible at all (well, it's improving anyways). I've been doing the stretches that we learned in our movement and technique classes and I've also started doing aerobic activity, yoga and pilates, but I'm always looking for new workout material, especially since I get bored easily. I'd really like to find some resources with exercises, warmups and stretches that are geared towards dancers and not like Denise Austin stuff. (Am I making sense to anybody?)

I dunno, I've looked up some of the NY ballet company's dvds and they have a book with stretches and exercises, but I just want to make sure these items would be worth my purchase. I'm just really looking for things to help me get my body into the proper shape for class.

I really appreciate any input that anyone can give!!!
Thanks!

[pygmalion]

Hi, norsie. Welcome. :D I believe there are a couple older threads that may help. I'll take a look around, then post them here. :D Welcome.

Jenn

[pygmalion]

Here are a few thread you might find interesting.
Yoga for dancers (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=2093)
Splits (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=1331)
Stretches for dancers (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=1066)

[delamusica]

There's been a lot of talk about yoga, but has anyone tried pilates? I've never done it myself (for lack of time, mostly), but my main coach really recommends it. I've heard it's focused on strengthening the core and working muscles in groups (instead of concentrating on one at a time) to improve fluidity of movement. Anybody here know more about it?

[LauraB]

Get the NYCB dvds. (Or just one of them.) They're definitely worth it, and they're definitely for dancers. If you're not too flexible right now, you just don't stretch as far, but if you want to push yourself, these workouts are great.

[norsie]

I really appreciate the feed back...thanks a lot guys!!!

ooo...PS: got to order a new pair of tap shoes today! I took 3 years of tap when I was a kid...so it's not really my first pair of tap shoes, but it's been forever since I've actually done any training in it, so I guess it's kinda like starting over.

thanks again though!

[pygmalion]

Anytime, norsie. Good luck with the new shoes, and with the tap training. :D

Jenn

[vices]

After recently joining a bunch of dance classes at my college, I realized I wanted to be more flexible. Imagine average flexibility for a non dancing male.

Hours of research later, I am totally confused. Hopefully someone here has some practical experience.

The goal is to gain as much flexibility as possible in my hips and legs, and lower back, in the shortest possible time. (Of course.) Splits, high leg raises, etc. I want em.

So the big question is, How??

What is the fastest (in number of days) way to develop these skills.

Stuff I kind of know:
PNF stretching is the most effective and safest. About 20 seconds of isometric contraction per rep? But how many reps before detrimental effects set in? An online book said 1 rep per day.. Which seems ridiculous.

Static stretching is the absolute safest, with stretches held for 20-30 seconds per rep. But how many reps before detrimental effects, before the muscle begins to tear past the useful point?

Yogi's sometimes hold their stretches for very long periods of time, wouldn't this be the most effective way to gain flexibility?



I'm really confused about what to do. My instinct is to hold the stretch for a very long time.. (I was in a Yoga club a few years ago)


Also, if my legs are sore the next day, it's important to stretch them out, right? To prevent the muscle from healing up shorter?

Any insight is -extremely- appreciated!!



After all this, I thought it was time for a picture.http://www.papimi.gr/evi.ht1.jpg

[samina]

i'm into this technique right now: http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=23060

you might wanna check out the book: "the genius of flexibility" by bob cooley.
http:// meridianstretching.com/

[vices]

Thanks Samina, I checked out the thread.

It looks like you are using PNF stretching, which I agree felt very natural when I was younger. I recently rediscovered it as well.

How long do your sessions with your trainer last? How long do you spend on your own, per muscle group?

Spring break just started and my free time is overwhelming..

[vices]

That's weird, I guess my post didn't go through.

Thanks for posting Samina, I checked that thread out.

It looks like you are doing PNF stretching, which I agree felt natural when I was younger.

How long do you and your trainer work together? How long do you work on your stretches alone?

Spring break just started, and I've got boatloads of free time for this stuff.

[Angelo]

If you want splits and high leg raises or kicks, Thomas Kurz's Stretching Scientifically ( stadion.com) or Pavel Tsatsoulines Relax into Stretch (dragondoor.com) are good resources. Their routines are very similar and do not require a trainer or other person for assistance.

[fascination]

let me just add that static stretches are only safe AFTER you have warmed up...they are not safe prior to that and they can cause serious tearing otherwise...each strectch should be held for about 20 seconds

[vices]

Thanks for the input everyone!

I'm just really curious what 'over doing' it, is. Holding a stretch for 20 seconds sounds about right, but how many reps should I do for maximal gain? A hundred sets of 20 seconds? Five?

[samina]

i go by what feels good... there is no better cue, IME... if you start to give yourself fixed rules you're going to diminish your ability to tune into what you really need. trust what feels right is my recommendation.

[jennyisdancing]

Thanks for the input everyone!

I'm just really curious what 'over doing' it, is. Holding a stretch for 20 seconds sounds about right, but how many reps should I do for maximal gain? A hundred sets of 20 seconds? Five?

I've never heard of doing reps for stretches and I don't think it's needed. Once or twice is enough for each stretch if you hold 20 seconds or so, and if you do them every day. I started ballet at age 8, and much later, I am still doing the stretches I learned there, and I am very flexible.

For splits and high leg raises, what you mainly need is looser hamstring muscles. Here are some of the ones I do for good leg flexibility:

Standing:
With legs together or slightly apart, bend down from the hip joints (like one of those perpetual drinking bird gadgets). Don't bend from the waist, you'll strain your back. Try to touch your toes. If you can't do that, put your hands on your knees and work them down. Eventually, if you keep at it over time, you want to be able to put your hands flat on the floor and touch your head to your knees.

If you have access to a ballet barre (or some other sturdy surface at waist level), put one leg up there and try to reach for your toes. Again, move from the hip joints, not the waist. Hold the stretch. Switch legs.

On the floor:

Sit with legs together in front of you. Reach from the hips and try to grab your feet or ankles; hold the stretch.

Now bring the soles of your feet together with your hands holding your ankles down, and your knees are out to the side. Pull your torso tall, don't hunch your back over. This will stretch out your inner thighs and hip joints.

Now put your legs apart in a straddle. Try to get your legs as far to the side as you can. At first, this won't be very far, if you're not flexible. Gradually this will improve. Reach from the hips, over your right leg, and grab your foot or ankle; try to put your head on your knee. Repeat for the left leg.

Return your body to the center, leaving your legs apart.
Then place your elbows and forearms on the floor in front of you, and press your torso forward to stretch, once again moving from the hip joint. When you're more flexible, you can reach your hands forward and walk them out in front of you, so your body goes lower and lower. Eventually, you can put your chest on the floor.

I'm sure some of these exercises will be familiar to those who do yoga. And there are many more. I would suggest a good video; I like the Rodney Yee yoga videos from Gaiam. To see some ballet stretches, I found this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOC93gtPPLA) on YouTube. But definitely always warm up first. :)

[Angelo]

Thanks for the input everyone!

I'm just really curious what 'over doing' it, is. Holding a stretch for 20 seconds sounds about right, but how many reps should I do for maximal gain? A hundred sets of 20 seconds? Five?


A good rule of thumb is to do as many reps as it takes to achieve your maximal range of motion for the day in that particular drill.

[samina]

I've never heard of doing reps for stretches and I don't think it's needed.

i am personally a big repetition stretcher... i pulse, i alternate sides, and i can repeat for a long time, often going in loops as i address various muscle groups again & again, until it goes from feeling tight to that blissful "aaaaaaaahhhh" feeling! :)

(that's in the context of my non-meridian stretching habits)

[fascination]

be careful with the pulse not to bounce or tear...for me, I warm up with some sort of cardio then I stretch for about a half an hour twice a day...longer holds of the stretch but fewer reps...again, one needs to listen to their own body

[samina]

never bought the "don't bounce" warnings and still don't. the key is contraction & activation of your muscles while you're doing it... seems to build safety right in, then. been doin' this since i was a little weenie... feels awesome... would never stop.

have felt so "locked" along my sides until recently, and then yesterday before my meridian stretching session i was warming up on the floor with deep straddles and discovered my sides had finally released and i could stretch so wide like i used to... probly spent half an hour pulsing & bouncing with gentle control... omg, awesome.

[fascination]

well, I suppose you know your own body....and the term bounce is relative, but I have pulled/torn a hammie but good bouncing...and that ain't happening again, but i think most of it comes down to being warm enough first...

[samina]

the bouncing warms you up... lol.

but again, the diff is the tone & activation/contraction in your muscles while you do... without it, they're not protected and yah, probly could easily tear.

[fascination]

they won't even let us take our class through static stetches without 5 minutes of cardio anymore...not everyone is as in tune as you probably are sam

[fascination]

it's a huge bugaboo in the fitness industry right now...the warning du jour

[samina]

yah, i know... just pointing out another view... that works very, very well if one uses a high degree of personal responsibility. :)

fitness studios understandably don't want any liability for renegades like myself, lol.

[skwiggy]

I had a physical therapist that advised me all stretches should be held for 30 seconds, and ideally done 3 times. She said that if you don't have time for all of that, it's better to hold them for 30 seconds once than to shorten each time and do more reps. She mentioned some study that had been done saying that you get much less benefit from a stretch if you hold it for less than 30 seconds.

I've heard from different personal trainers things like a minimum of 12 seconds, but I tend to go with what the physical therapist said since I'm really concerned with preventing injury.

[fascination]

agree skwig...I definately don't see the merit in anything less than 20 seconds...and it drives me batty when they are led for less....and I really can't see myself stretching the same muscle group mor than 3-6 times...

[Angelo]

agree skwig...I definately don't see the merit in anything less than 20 seconds...and it drives me batty when they are led for less....and I really can't see myself stretching the same muscle group mor than 3-6 times...


It depends on what stretching method you are using. Relaxed static stretches can be held for as long as 5 minutes. If you use the Active Isolated Stretching Method, the "stretch" is held for something like 2 seconds. Dynamic stretches aren't "held" at all. The exact protocol will depend on your goals and what method you are using. A lot of different ways to skin the cat. This probably will only add to the OP's confusion but que sera sera

[bordertangoman]

I had a physical therapist that advised me all stretches should be held for 30 seconds, and ideally done 3 times. She said that if you don't have time for all of that, it's better to hold them for 30 seconds once than to shorten each time and do more reps. She mentioned some study that had been done saying that you get much less benefit from a stretch if you hold it for less than 30 seconds.

I've heard from different personal trainers things like a minimum of 12 seconds, but I tend to go with what the physical therapist said since I'm really concerned with preventing injury.

Reminds me of a Tai chi teacher who would stop us mid form frozen in whatever position we'd reached then would reel off some anecdote about his visits to China for ten minutes while our muscles started to ache and start quivering.....

and for those Qi Gong static 'hugging a tree' positions nothing less than half an hour will do.
if you don't believe me see what happens; my experience is that it goes from aching muscles to some kind of energetic response; you get very hot and then it all gets easy again; its just getting through the wall to reach that point that's difficult.

off topic I guess

[vices]

What is the difference between pulsing and bouncing?

And if I were to listen to my own body, I'd spend 20 minutes or more on each stretch...

[fascination]

I don't do either but pulsing involves keeping the muscle tone...if I were to hold a stretch for 20 minutes I'd either fall asleep or die of boredom

[samina]

What is the difference between pulsing and bouncing?

And if I were to listen to my own body, I'd spend 20 minutes or more on each stretch...

yah, around 20 overall minutes on the same area feels good to me, too. but i prefer to work on something a bit, then something else, then come back... and so on. over the course of an hour, i can notice a significant release in a few areas.

as for pulsing vs. bouncing, both for me include having my muscles activated. with pulsing i am already in the stretch and "pulse" deeper into it pretty much on the spot, whereas "bouncing" for me involves more movement away from & back toward the stretch. keeping your muscle group active seems to protect yourself from injury because it actually limits your range of flexibility. any flexibility you're able to produce is genuine & feels good in that case.

you could hurt yourself if you just bounce into the stretch without care, without contracting or activating the muscles. many years ago as a cheerleader in a pep rally, with no time for warmup, i did a round-off into splits & tore my groin muscle... that's an extreme example of the danger of bouncing.

[Chiron]

When I stretch I like to warm up a bit (if I'm dancing it usually involves a couple lines of foxtrot or waltz and some rumba basics). Then I usually like to do static stretches for around 20 seconds per stretch. I will also hold any longer if it feels tight or repeat it if it feels tight. If I'm stretching to increase my flexibility, not just part of my usual warm up. I try to do it after some activity where I'm really warmed up, (e.g. just finished practicing dance, just got in from a run). Then I usually start with static stretches and hold them usually longer than 20 seconds. I will also repeat anything that feels tight to me. After that I will do some PNF stretches. I think that to see results you need to be patient and persisent, just like most things in life. Running, lifting, dieting, dancing... For me it usually takes a month or two and then I'll have an "ah ha" moment, like the other day I look in the mirror and noticed one of my muscle groups is considerably more toned than it used to be. (I also have the opposite "ah ha" moments when I slack for a while, e.g. I used to be able to do this run no problem and it is kicking my butt today, those can usually motivate me to get back on the horse though).

One other thing I noticed some of my friends who were dance majors do. When they were doing misc things they would be stretching. When they were outside the dance department talking they would be stretching, one guy would have his leg up stretching his ham strings on a bench, another girl would be sitting on the bench in the splits. My ex would naturally sit in stretching positions if we were watching TV or just hanging out. They weren't in their full stretch position but were lightly stretching. It may not be necessary but probably wouldn't hurt to get into that habit if you wanted to be really flexible. Good luck, be patient and persistent and you'll get there.

[samina]

Hmmm. I don't think I do static stretches at all for any body part. If it's static and I'm holding still, I think it's either because I'm at the end of a stretching session and I'm just feeling how good it is, or am in a danger point.

Upon reflection, I think when I find myself in a relaxed static stretch, it's because I've gotten sloppy and am doing an action without control, and am thus too deep into a position...and know immediately I need to protect myself by activating my muscles.

And activated muscles crave movement, so then I'm back to pulsing.

Yah, I don't think static stretches are very safe, effective, or pleasurable. Wouldn't recommend them. Seem to be in the minority here on that account.

[fascination]

well sam just b/c you disagree doesn't mean your experience is wrong that is for certain...the fitness organization through which I recieved my certification, certainly has alot of cautions about static stretches prior to being very very warm...in truth they are best at the end of a workout...and the reason for this relatively new emphasis is that so many athletes have injured themselves using static stretches as a way to warm-up...which, bounce or no bounce, shouldn't happen

[emily13]

:D I love this topic hehe.
I started contortion about a year ago, and I wasn't flexible AT ALL. I couldn't even get down into the splits! But now, I can do 1 foot oversplits with almost no pain at all.

But it takes time. It takes a LOT of time. I do 4 hours of stretching EVERY day, no matter how I'm feeling. I have to do that just to KEEP my flexibility! I'm sure you're aware that you can lose flexibility quicker than you can gain it :)

My suggestion is to enroll in yoga and pilates. Also, and this may sound weird, but maybe learn vto conquer pain. That's what I was thought to do, and that's how I became a contortionist. I have a very high pain threshold.

Now, once you do start stretching, you have to make sure you stretch EVERY day, especially the day after you start stretching (trust me, it hurts a LOTTTT!)

Good luck!
:)

[samina]

:D I love this topic hehe.
I started contortion about a year ago, and I wasn't flexible AT ALL. I couldn't even get down into the splits! But now, I can do 1 foot oversplits with almost no pain at all.

But it takes time. It takes a LOT of time. I do 4 hours of stretching EVERY day, no matter how I'm feeling. I have to do that just to KEEP my flexibility! I'm sure you're aware that you can lose flexibility quicker than you can gain it :)

My suggestion is to enroll in yoga and pilates. Also, and this may sound weird, but maybe learn vto conquer pain. That's what I was thought to do, and that's how I became a contortionist. I have a very high pain threshold.

Now, once you do start stretching, you have to make sure you stretch EVERY day, especially the day after you start stretching (trust me, it hurts a LOTTTT!)

Good luck!
:)

so em, tell us a bit more about how you stretch. am very interested. i know i could've taken your path & become a contortionist when i was younger, but now i'm working to reclaim a level of flexibility that i had when i was very young -- i'd be ecstatic now just to achieve that.

what is your stretching routine to maintain what you have, and beyond? i'm all ears... :)

[and123]

Me too.... I swear I was made of rubber when I was younger (which to me means I'm physically capable of doing these things), but now I'm just "stuck" :(

[samina]

... but now I'm just "stuck" :(

and that gets me back to the meridian stretching/resistance flexibility training. am becoming rapidly unstuck, week by week... it is remarkable, truly.

the trainer was saying how she's going to start bringing in one of those gaiam handstand supports to start doing assisted inverted back stretches...so very cool

[and123]

I am seriously thinking about trying to find someone around here who does this kind of stuff *fires up Google*

[Angelo]

I am seriously thinking about trying to find someone around here who does this kind of stuff *fires up Google*


The "inventor" of the system, Bob Cooley, is (or at least was) based around here

[samina]

back when i took flexibility for granted, i used to think of it in terms of just doing splits, how close one could get one's chest onto one's legs, the arch in one's back...

as i'm endeavoring to recover much that was lost, i'm seeing how profound it is... the flexibility of rotation in all my joints, in every direction. wow, that's a big thing. and how when things certain muscles get stuck & start holding, there's a massive chain reaction.

so frustrating to experience & try to puzzle out how to undo... so exciting when it actually starts to adjust & reveal the freedom of movement underneath.

[emily13]

I start off with warming my muscles off. I run up and down the stairs, jog outside, jumping jacks, whatever. It's a true pain to start stretching if your muscles are cold. I don't do this for long, only a few minutes.

After that, I do a forward stretch. Knees straight, try to touch the floor. Well, I actually grab my ankles and pull my head through my leg, but that's just me. I found that it may help to "pulse" to a 20 count.

I follow with stretches to warm up my hips. The frog stretch and the butterfly stretch are great! Then, second splits (sit down, and extend your legs as far to the side as possible. Stretch forward if you can.)

Split stretches next. Start with lunges. First, hipflexors, then go back on your behind leg and extend your front leg and stretch forward. Go as far as you can into the splits. Repeat on both sides.

Those are stretches for hamstrings. I see you also want a flexible spine? There are many stretches for the spine.

First, a bridge. (I'm sure you're aware of what that is?)
Another one - Lay on the floor, legs extend to the back of you. Push yourself up as far

You can also look up "contortion stretches" or "contortion warmups" on YouTube and get some GREAT videos of how contortionists warm up/stretch. Don't be afraid to google contortion stretches/warm ups as well! Contortion all starts with simple stretches like so. The extreme bending comes after you warm up.

Also, you have to be REALLY careful when working your back. It's probably the most dangerous thing to bend. I -highly- recommend finding a stretching coach. Also maybe talk with a yoga instructor. Most of them are aware of contortion training :)

Hope I was of help! Feel free to PM me if you have more stretching questions.
-Emily

[samina]

thanks, em. these bring back memories. :)

you're inspiring me. will definitely PM. found some cool youtube vids.

gonna go put some tunes on and stretch now, lol.

[vices]

Awww, don't PM. Keep it public if it's not too personal, this stuff is really interesting for other people as well!

[emily13]

I'm glad I could help! :D

[samina]

Awww, don't PM. Keep it public if it's not too personal, this stuff is really interesting for other people as well!

sure. :)

i did indeed hit the mat last night. tried out a few variants of frog pose... had forgotten how i used that to get a good stretch in my back & hips.

have always been a big fan of the original hurdler's stretch, as well... just keep extending out, out, out right into the split. that's nice. i'm decent with straddle & splits stretches -- can fall over quite easily to put my tum on the floor in straddle -- but i've been avoiding working too much on spinal flexibility, and i feel released enuf now to take that on again.

lying on my back and going up over my head with my legs into a pike, and gradually working my bent knees to the floor next to my ears was always a good one for me in the past to release my spine. knees aren't making it to the floor as yet but... they will am sure with some practice.

[Peaches]

lying on my back and going up over my head with my legs into a pike, and gradually working my bent knees to the floor next to my ears was always a good one for me in the past to release my spine. knees aren't making it to the floor as yet but... they will am sure with some practice.That used to be one of my favorites. The problem I have now, which I'm wondering how you get around, is that my chin gets in the way. Seriously. The pike is fine, but when I bring my knees down to my ears, then my chin hits my breastbone/ribcage/whatever and I can't go any further.

Perhaps I need to be actually stretching something? Because, really, I feel no stretch from that. (The pike, yes, through the backs of my legs.) Mostly what I feel is my chin digging into my chest which is uncomfortable, and the back of my neck pressing into the floor/whatever, which also is uncomfortable.

What's going wrong?

Edit to add another question... Like I said, I feel no muscle stretch with the knees-to-ears thing. But the other thing I do feel, which can't be good, is what feels like a lot of strain on my spine itself. (This isn't the only time when it feels like my actual spine hurts, btw.) Anyone know what the deal is?

[and123]

lying on my back and going up over my head with my legs into a pike....

OK, I have heard evil things about this and how it's really bad for your neck. Trying to remember if it was a particular book that pointed out all of the bad ways people attempt to stretch. I can easily put my knees aside my ears, but my neck is to the point of nearly doing a back somersault. It hurts to stay there like that, as does that dang Pilates move Rolling Like a Ball. Hurts the bones of my spine something fierce.

[Peaches]

So it's not just me! :-)

[vices]

Yeah I never liked doing forward rolls because my spine bones always felt bruised.
Lately I am working on being able to raise my leg straight out in front of me. I'm not sure why I can't do it. Physically I can stretch, if I place my leg up on something. But the act of trying to raise it up shortens the muscle, or something.

To aid myself, I've been try to stick my leg straight up in the air while laying down, to reduce the strain on my hip flexor and target the ... hamstring? more.

Any tips?

[KathyInKY]

Ohhhhh!!! I'm all ears too, Em!!!

I don't have a desire to become a controtionist. It's just that I'm 47 and only now beginning dance and would really really really like to gain some flexibility and balance.

I wonder if I can do that without killing myself. LOL!!!

[samina]

OK, I have heard evil things about this and how it's really bad for your neck. Trying to remember if it was a particular book that pointed out all of the bad ways people attempt to stretch. I can easily put my knees aside my ears, but my neck is to the point of nearly doing a back somersault. It hurts to stay there like that, as does that dang Pilates move Rolling Like a Ball. Hurts the bones of my spine something fierce.

i think this pose could definitely do some damage if done recklessly.

i find that the higher i am on my shoulders, the better it all feels... everything seems to find its place, then. i'm easing my way down day-by-day right now... i go only so far as my spine feels pressure but no strain. and as i've said before, i am not a static stretcher, so i move a lot, bringing my legs up high one-by-one and then together in a shoulder stand, then back down, piked over, then bent into the extreme stretch with knees closer to my ears.

i remember being able to fold easily over and rest my knees on the floor next to my head. and yes, as peaches said, things get pretty tight in the chin/chest area but... i think being up on the shoulders creates more space, so it all fits well enuf. i remember being able to just hang out there & feel great... that is the vision in my head right now to get to.

coming back out feels great, too... but again, one's back & legs & core all have to be active to control the movement or one could get hurt, i think.

as for rolling on the spine hurting the little spinal nobbies... i know, i've felt that too. but i think it's probly a sign of bits of misalignment, weaknesses that want to be massaged and enlivened... which is what the rolling does. children love to roll, and adults stop... just like jumping.

and dear me, now i'm remembering how awesome it felt to roll dynamically right into the knees-by-ears-on-floor position... lord, what a nice feeling! looking forward to being able to do that again.

[samina]

That used to be one of my favorites. The problem I have now, which I'm wondering how you get around, is that my chin gets in the way. Seriously. The pike is fine, but when I bring my knees down to my ears, then my chin hits my breastbone/ribcage/whatever and I can't go any further.

Perhaps I need to be actually stretching something? Because, really, I feel no stretch from that. (The pike, yes, through the backs of my legs.) Mostly what I feel is my chin digging into my chest which is uncomfortable, and the back of my neck pressing into the floor/whatever, which also is uncomfortable.

What's going wrong?

you should probly feel it in the spine... can you get your knees not just by your ears, but resting on the floor next to your ears? the effort to go just that much further is what would probly wake up tight points in your spine...

and if there's no room, make sure you're getting completely off your back, on the tippy top of what feels like your shoulders... but maybe it is the very base of the neck. i'll have to pay attention to it next time i do it. it doesn't feel bad or straining to rest there... you can feel right away that your weight has good support, as opposed to when you stay more on your back & everything gets squished, and the support is more on your muscles than your skeletal frame.

Edit to add another question... Like I said, I feel no muscle stretch with the knees-to-ears thing. But the other thing I do feel, which can't be good, is what feels like a lot of strain on my spine itself. (This isn't the only time when it feels like my actual spine hurts, btw.) Anyone know what the deal is?

yes, there ya go... that's the beauty & power of the pose, i believe... just be gentle with yourself and don't force. if you're feeing pain, it sounds to me like you're going over too far, and perhaps not actively supporting yourself muscularly as you go over. it's an extreme pose that needs active muscles to protect, IME. mebbe take it down a few notches?

[Peaches]

Just tried it. My back is too tight today to get into that position...not even close, lol. Generally, though, yes and no--I could get my knees resting on the floor if it wasn't for my chin being in the way. I can't find a way around that.

And it doesn't feel good on my neck. Yes, I'm completely up and off my back, but that just hurts my neck. Given that I've seen the effects of necks getting screwed up, I think I'll just avoid that altogether.

(I used to be able to do that without a problem, even going so far as to continue the roll and end up on my knees. Part of the problem is loss of flexibility, I'm sure--I also used to have no problem locking my feet behind my head--but the other part of it is that I know my body proportions have changed from when I was little.)

[Easy]

I see a lot of dancers stretching before they compete or perform. I could be wrong, but wouldn't it make more sense to warmup first, since stretching takes the muscles closer to their stress limits? Seems like a good method would be...warmup, dance, then stretch afterwards. Any thoughts on this?

[fascination]

stretching is good before dancing IMO...but as you note, not before warming up...after is also a good idea IMO

[wyllo]

It hurts to stay there like that, as does that dang Pilates move Rolling Like a Ball. Hurts the bones of my spine something fierce.

Yeah, I did this once in a class without much padding. The next day I had little round purple bruises all up my spine!

[samina]

ouch!

[reb]

that dang Pilates move Rolling Like a Ball. Hurts the bones of my spine something fierce.
That's that most fun part for me!

[Chiron]

I see a lot of dancers stretching before they compete or perform. I could be wrong, but wouldn't it make more sense to warmup first, since stretching takes the muscles closer to their stress limits? Seems like a good method would be...warmup, dance, then stretch afterwards. Any thoughts on this?

I'm one of the dancers you will see stretching right before they perform. I'm already warm at this point and the reason I'm stretching is more a nervous twitch than to get loose. It gives me something to do and a way to spend some energy/focus until I go on. The other options for me is to run/do pushups/jump up and down, but those always get weird looks.

[Easy]

I'm one of the dancers you will see stretching right before they perform. I'm already warm at this point and the reason I'm stretching is more a nervous twitch than to get loose. It gives me something to do and a way to spend some energy/focus until I go on. The other options for me is to run/do pushups/jump up and down, but those always get weird looks.

lol Thanks for the explanation. :)

[emily13]

Ah, same here, Chiron. Before classes, performances, whatever. I do hop around a little, like jog in place, just to get blood flowing my my muscles. It really helps.

Also, stretching in the morning is a great way to wake up ;) I stretch every morning after I take my shower.

[Me]

I think the key to flexibility (other than being 'born with' a body that lends itself) is dedicating the time to train it. If you want to become more flexible but are thinking, "Okay, I'll take ten minutes this morning to work my splits" then you'll never make it. There is a lot of good advice here on tips to warm up before stretching, and it is very important to hold a stretch. I trained ballet for many years, and never were we ever taught to plop down into a split before warming up at a barre, or taught to 'bounce' our foreheads against our knees while bending forward, etc. It takes patience and, as has been noted, a tolerance for discomfort (not pain). I think the only real way to cut down on the 'time' factor would be to engage in stretches after your lesson. This way your muscles are mostly warmed up and you don't have to spend time warming them.

[Easy]

I think the key to flexibility (other than being 'born with' a body that lends itself) is dedicating the time to train it. If you want to become more flexible but are thinking, "Okay, I'll take ten minutes this morning to work my splits" then you'll never make it. There is a lot of good advice here on tips to warm up before stretching, and it is very important to hold a stretch. I trained ballet for many years, and never were we ever taught to plop down into a split before warming up at a barre, or taught to 'bounce' our foreheads against our knees while bending forward, etc. It takes patience and, as has been noted, a tolerance for discomfort (not pain). I think the only real way to cut down on the 'time' factor would be to engage in stretches after your lesson. This way your muscles are mostly warmed up and you don't have to spend time warming them.

Excellent info you...I mean Me :)

[emily13]

I agree with Me.
It all boils down to, if you don't want to dedicate the time, you might as well not bother. It doesn't just magically happen. So many people think that they can stretch 30 minutes every other day and become rubber in 3 weeks. NO. It's gonna take months, maybe years.

One thing that you will possibly run into is the doubt of others. DON'T let anyone say "you can't do it." IGNORE them. I get that ALL that time. Well, I normally get comments like "There's no point" or "You're wasting your time. You'll never get into cirque." My response? Go fall out of a tree. ;D

Anyways, I wish ya the best of luck ^_^
Don't expect it to happen in weeks. It's gonna take several months, sad to say. And don't start WISHING. Wishing only hurts the heart, and won't get you anywhere :P

-Em

[reb]

My response? Go f a tree.
What! Telling someone to go fall out of a tree?!?!

how rude - we don't use language like that around here young lady . . .

[emily13]

My greatest apologies.
Edited :P

[Jordan S.]

Hi! I'm new to the forums and I wanted to ask this question.

I was really flexible when I was 3(lol everyone is) then I quit ballet(Baaad descison now that I think about it :( ) and my muscles just overtime became so freaking stiff. I'm 14 and now interested in getting flexible again. I've been watching So You Think you can dance for 4 seasons and it sparked a sudden interest in taking a dance lesson again, but I know I won't get far if I can't do a split. but my condition is pretty bad. I can touch my toes just barely, and I'm only half way towards a split. My mom told me I should just get into a split and hold it for a few seconds but to my disadvantage, I don't have her gene so at the moment, my muscles just won't stretch that far. And If I do, my musces will probably tear lol :headwall: Do you guys have any suggestions for good stretches or other things that might help, so possibly I could do to eventually be able to get into a split?

[DancingMommy]

One thing! Don't just "get into a split and hold it" unless you are really well warmed up. When I was not much older than you, I did that and I have had a persistent injury for the last TWENTY years because of it.

You are 14. Lots of people don't get started until they are around your age. Being able to do a split or not is not make or break, really. Some people's bodies just won't do it. It has more to do with your physiology and less to do with ability.

For starters, I'd begin with a good "stretch and strengthen" class. Pilates and Yoga are also beneficial for lenthening and strengthening the muscles. Under NO circumstances should you try to do any sort of movement without being properly warmed up. You're asking for a world of pain and injury if you don't warm up properly!

About.com has a good article on pilates stretches. Take out the spaces and replace the word "dot" with a "." to make the link work.
pilates dot about dot com/od/pilatesmat/tp/Stretches-for-Flexibility.htm

[samina]

muscles stretch best (and most safely) when they are under contraction at the same time. you might wanna check out bob cooley's book "the genius of flexibility".

you are so young, your flexibility till come back i'm sure no problem. my advice is to put some good music, get down on the floor, straddle your legs, and start feeling how good it feels to stretch to the side over each leg and then down to the center, using rhythm and repetition, but never force. focus not on getting your head down, but on narrowing the space between your legs and your body. keep expanding the width of your legs until you start naturally putting yourself into splits...always feeling how good the sensations are, never ever forcing. "pulsing" to the rhythm is extremely helpful (not bouncing tho -- you must be gentle with your progress while still playing the edge).

at your age, i bet this will work fabulously for you! take your time...you can easily spend an hour or more doing this. and be sure to invent some counter-stretches to stretch the opposing muscles.

and of course, this is just the beginning of all the cool stretching you can do using this technique... experiment, and keep the good music on as inspiration!

[JJ]

Samina, are there lots of pics, illustrations, etc in the book? I find books on stretching much easier to follow when there are diagrams that accompany the text.

[latingal]

Welcome to DF Jordan S.!

[Angel HI]

I have been asking this very question for the past couple of months, now. Countless times, I have been told to find a yoga class. So........

[fascination]

also bear in mind that the best time to stretch is after a workout...that is when your muscles are good and warm

[samina]

Samina, are there lots of pics, illustrations, etc in the book? I find books on stretching much easier to follow when there are diagrams that accompany the text.
lots of pictures. there's also a video one can order that shows the exercises, but i don't have it. i think mamboqueen has checked it out.

[Chiron]

Welcome to DF Jordan.

Patience and persistence will get you there, don't try to rush things and hurt yourself.

Brad Appleton has a nice guide to flexibilty/stretching and working towards the splits.

http://www.cmcrossroads.com/bradapp/docs/rec/stretching/stretching_toc.html

[Chiron]

Something else I just remembered from when I was younger, if you've recently gone through a growth spurt your flexibility will be decreased. Your body will loosen up in time, stretching will help get it there faster.

[CANI]

(and most safely)

I'd be interested in this safety piece. Are you aware of any studies that proves this? Thanks

[samina]

I'd be interested in this safety piece. Are you aware of any studies that proves this? Thanks
Studies? No, although I could ask my stretch trainer. All you have to do is try it and you'll see -- when you don't put a muscle into contraction when you attempt to stretch it, your joints & connective tissue are not protected against injury from over-stretching. When you put the muscle under contraction, your true range of stretch is revealed, and significantly limited as compared to when it's not contracted.

Try and you'll see...

[etp777]

all I know about splits is that guy in our TA couple does them in new routine they were working on this week, and all of us (his partner, coach and I) were all just amazed and disgusted about how quickly and easily he got up out of those splits. Just waasn't right. :P

[samina]

I'd be interested in this safety piece. Are you aware of any studies that proves this? Thanks

there is, however, a study i believe regarding the *effectiveness* of resistance stretch training and why it increases power and recovery time in athletes (why, for example, the swimmer dara torres is such an aficionado of this stretch technique). i'll see what i can find and post it here.

[samina]

my stretch trainer provided this reference regarding eccentric training, which is basically what is done in resistance stretch training -- taking muscle from short position to long position under resistance -- it's a great survey article in a sports med journal:

Brughelli M and J Cronin. Altering the Length-Tension Relationship with Eccentric Exercise Implications for Performance and Injury. Sports Med. 2007: 37 (9) 807-826

[CANI]

All you have to do is try it and you'll see

Thanks, I'm already familiar with Bob Cooley's book. In my prior experiences, lots of things can feel very, very good in the short term, only to produce long-term problems. That's why safety studies are of particular interest to me. Thanks for asking your trainer.

[CANI]

there is, however, a study i believe regarding the *effectiveness* of resistance stretch training and why it increases power and recovery time in athletes (why, for example, the swimmer dara torres is such an aficionado of this stretch technique). i'll see what i can find and post it here.

Thanks, yep, read about the effectiveness in the short term...and am familiar with dara torres' story (to an extent)

[CANI]

my stretch trainer provided this reference regarding eccentric training, which is basically what is done in resistance stretch training -- taking muscle from short position to long position under resistance -- it's a great survey article in a sports med journal:

Brughelli M and J Cronin. Altering the Length-Tension Relationship with Eccentric Exercise Implications for Performance and Injury. Sports Med. 2007: 37 (9) 807-826

Thanks very much. Can't seem to access this without paying money and can't spend money on this right now. Will save this for a future read when funds are available. But, this might answer my question if it addresses long-term safety. Thanks.

[samina]

as for whether and how good it feels, that's a separate matter altogether -- you actually feel tighter at first when you do it this way. but it sounds like you already must know that.

[CANI]

as for whether and how good it feels, that's a separate matter altogether -- you actually feel tighter at first when you do it this way. but it sounds like you already must know that.

I haven't worked with a trainer, nor do I have plans to, but my experience with the book descriptions is I don't feel pain...and working with the descriptions feels good...may be a matter of semantics...

[r0yal7y]

So I need some help, I reeeeaaaaalllllllyyyyy want to be a good dancer...Ive had a tiny bit of experience so far, but by tiny I mean....not much AT ALL, but I have what looks to be like a natural "gift." I want to learn contemporary, modern, ballet, all that I can, but I cant take classes until next year (green card makes everything cheeper...im canadian) so I want to prepare my body. Ive started working out, but I cant seem to advance much with stretching. I would love to be flexible as fast as I can so I can be better prepared for jumps/splits ext. any stretching tips would be really helpful.....im 20 by they way so you can see why im in a little bit of a rush haha

[and123]

:google:

[fascination]

welcome to df...we also have a search function and some threads on this....IMo, yoga is a good way to start

[opendoor]

Hi r0yal7y, welcome here!

If you seek a training method especially for dancers, take Pilates into account.

(Everyone here has found the best method, and will give you good advice :p )

But, Joseph Pilates invented his training system for the ballet dancers of my hometown in peticular. When he moved to NY, he trained the best dancers around.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Pilates

Be aware, what is offered as Pilates in the fitness centres rarely is worthy of the name. Bthw, he invented the mashines which are typical for body building centres, today. But he used them to train dancers, only.

[samina]

also r0yal7y...have you read through this thread in detail yet? there are good suggestions in it...

[Tangos_with_Tim]

I am currently working on trying to increase my hamstring flexibility. I have started reading through this thread and the Brad Appleton document looks really useful, but I haven't found an answer to my problem yet...

I'm having a particular problem, and wondered if anyone else has experienced this. The stretch I normally use, is to place one foot on a table/step about hip height, try and touch toe with opposite hand while keeping hips square.

My problem is I get really uncomfortable in the muscle down the front of my shin of the stretching leg (tibialis anterior) and in the muscles over the top of my foot. I can't even see that these muscles are being stretched as they are on the opposite side to the muscles being stretched, surely they should be relaxed?

I also feel like it takes a good 20 seconds before any stretch starts to effect my hamstring - everything else has to go through hell before it even notices the stretch!

Any shared experiences welcomed!

[fascination]

a) make sure you warm up for about 5 minutes, walking or on an elliptical or do step touches or grapevines...before you begin to do stretches...your muscles must be warm first

b) as to the top of the leg...anterior fib (?)...I find that it hleps to actually tighten the muscles first and then deliberately release it...calve raises and toe points can achieve this

also helps to massage the area prior to the stretch

[Tangos_with_Tim]

a) make sure you warm up for about 5 minutes,

b) as to the top of the leg...anterior fib (?)...I find that it hleps to actually tighten the muscles first and then deliberately release it...calve raises and toe points can achieve this

also helps to massage the area prior to the stretch


Hi Fascination,

Thanks for the reply. I do warm up before stretching as I always stretch after cycling.

I will try the massaging first on the hamstrings, see if this will help them to start stretching quicker and relieve the stress on everything else.

I got the muscle name off Wiki, Human_leg (I can't post URLs yet), it is the biggest muscle down the front of the shin and apparently called the tibialis anterior. I just can't understand why this should hurt when it's the back of the leg being stretched.

Thanks,
Tangos

[fascination]

lolz...anterior Tib....I was close... :)...anyhow, it is not uncommon tfor the opposing muscles to the one you are stretching to become tight...so if you are stretching the back of the leg things on the front may compress...which is why you need to make sure that you do opposing stetches...it would not neccessarliy be a problem or uncommon to feel the front of the leg tense a bit

[Tangos_with_Tim]

lolz...anterior Tib....I was close... :)...anyhow, it is not uncommon tfor the opposing muscles to the one you are stretching to become tight...so if you are stretching the back of the leg things on the front may compress...which is why you need to make sure that you do opposing stetches...it would not neccessarliy be a problem or uncommon to feel the front of the leg tense a bit

Ahh, ok then, so I will try toe points as well. Thanks again :)

[Tangos_with_Tim]

:banana:Wow, that advice helped immediately! Did some rubbing of my shins and hamstrings, and some toe pointing, then did my full hamstring stretch - so much more comfortable!

And after that I was able to touch my toes and hold the position for the first time ever! :D Held it for about 20 seconds - could have stayed there, but thought I wouldn't push my luck.

Thanks Fascination!

[samina]

I am currently working on trying to increase my hamstring flexibility.
Any shared experiences welcomed!
here is the classic "resistance stretching" hamstring exercise, with bob cooley, the creator of meridian stretching. this is an assisted stretch demonstrated, but you can also do it yourself by creating some resistance drawing your foot toward your buttocks while you stretch your heel to the ceiling...or however high up it goes.

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here's a stretch for the central hamstring ("brain meridian")

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the medial hamstring ("pancreas meridian")

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and the lateral hamstrings ("bladder meridian"), which addresses the part that connects the glutes with the hamstrings and may help you as well

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you can do the resistance portion of the exercises first, to warm up your muscles very specifically, and then add the stretch part in.

for me, after my muscles are warmed up, either stretching in pike positin or on a V on the floor, or standing up and bending over to stretch in pike or in a V, helps -- the intention being to lay my torso onto my legs (or the floor), and i tip my tuckus up in the back at the same time to create a longer stretch.

happy stretching!

[samina]

it is not uncommon tfor the opposing muscles to the one you are stretching to become tight...so if you are stretching the back of the leg things on the front may compress...which is why you need to make sure that you do opposing stetches...
i agree with this, definitely.

to oppose the hamstrings, do a youtube search for exercises stretching the "stomach meridian", which is along the front of the body, those quads in particular.

[Tangos_with_Tim]

Cheers everyone, looks like some top advice from you all, so thanks! :)

[laucy.my]

I have one that I love doing but to be frank I don't know what muscle it stretches. I just like doing it. I sit down with the soles of my feet facing each other and I pull it as close to my body as possible, making sure that my knees are as close to the floor as possible. If not, I push them down. Then, I lean back a little before stretching my hand out to the front and pull my body as low as I can. Try to get your tummy or chest in contact with your feet. I don't know if it makes sense, what I am talking now.

[fascination]

that would be predominantly for inner thigh but would also activate hip flexor and lower back

[MidwestDancingGuy]

I have one that I love doing but to be frank I don't know what muscle it stretches. I just like doing it. I sit down with the soles of my feet facing each other and I pull it as close to my body as possible, making sure that my knees are as close to the floor as possible. If not, I push them down. Then, I lean back a little before stretching my hand out to the front and pull my body as low as I can. Try to get your tummy or chest in contact with your feet. I don't know if it makes sense, what I am talking now.

Sounds like a butterfly stretch.

[Spitfire]

I mentioned having "night cramps" in my legs on another thread. I'm not so sure about the term cramps as it is not in the form of pain, but rather a very tight feeling; best way I can explain it. What I actually suspect is that the problem could be from having very tight muscles in my legs and am going to try using stretching exersizes to see if this helps.

[fascination]

my remedy for that is a hot bath and some bengay before bed

[Joe]

DH must love that. ;)

[fascination]

:) not so much...fortunately for him that is most likely to occur on nights when I am in indy

[pygmalion]

A hot bath will probably help with the insomnia, either way. If it's a muscle thing, it will loosen them. But if it's just about insomnia, a hot bath should help too.

This thread isn't about insomnia, but ... have you tried those lavender bath salts or tablets? I'm pretty sure that Wal-Mart, Target and the dollar store all sell lavender bath thingies. Hot bath = good for stiff muscles. Lavender is supposed to help you sleep. Two birds with one stone. :-D

[Tangos_with_Tim]

I mentioned having "night cramps" in my legs on another thread. I'm not so sure about the term cramps as it is not in the form of pain, but rather a very tight feeling; best way I can explain it. What I actually suspect is that the problem could be from having very tight muscles in my legs and am going to try using stretching exersizes to see if this helps.


Tight muscles do result from exercising without stretching, so do try it. Also I find giving my calves/quads etc a good deep massage by pushing my thumb in where it is tight really helps release the knots.

[Spitfire]

Tight muscles do result from exercising without stretching, so do try it. Also I find giving my calves/quads etc a good deep massage by pushing my thumb in where it is tight really helps release the knots.

Did stretching the last two nights before going to bed and no problems so maybe this is all I need rather than taking medications. It probably also helps that I was dancing last night.

[pygmalion]

Did stretching the last two nights before going to bed and no problems so maybe this is all I need rather than taking medications. It probably also helps that I was dancing last night.


That's good to hear. I was wondering. A big bag of bath salts is never a bad thing, though. :wink:

[Spitfire]

That's good to hear. I was wondering. A big bag of bath salts is never a bad thing, though. :wink:

Or a heating pad.

[pygmalion]

Add in some warm milk and I'm your girl. :wink: :-D

[Spitfire]

Let's dance!

[pygmalion]

Any time! :-D

[Spitfire]

Any time! :-D

Say tomorrow night at the AM in Phoenix; the local chapter USADance? :cool:

Oh, that's right; that would be a little out of the way for you.

BTW-I haven't seen our good friends Henry and Olivia lately.

[Joe]

Put on your red shoes and dance the blues.

[BreAna]

I'm pretty flexible in the sense that I've been able to achieve my goals of doing splits, straddles, etc., however, there is still one goal that I have yet to attain.

I think it's so gorgeous when a lady slowly extends her leg so that her foot is in the air and her legs make a straight line, perpendicular to the floor. I've seen it done on youtube videos of pros dancing Rumba and Bolero.

I can lift my ankle to the desired position for a second or 2, but then I need to release it. Unless I kick or pull my leg up, I can barely get it above parallel to the floor!

What do I need to do to accomplish this feat?

[TurnsAre4Girls]

OMG BreAna .. I've seen people get close to it ...

I think you'd need a stunt double. If I tried anything remotely close to that I'd need a doctor!

GL trying to achieve that though.