Country Dance Question -- What is Schottische?

[pygmalion]

Huh? Never heard of it. Anybody? :?:

[MadamSamba]

Hey, Jenn... we've got two Schottisches that I know of here in Australia.

One is the Excelsior Schottische (http://www-staff.mcs.uts.edu.au/~don/vogue/exce.html) and I can't remember the name of the other, but I think they're
New Vogue dances, (http://www-staff.mcs.uts.edu.au/~don/pubs/vogue.html) which, I believe, are Australian evolutions of old English dances. That's probably why you guys haven't heard of them.

But here's an explanation of the dance according to this Schottische website (http://www.streetswing.com/histmain/z3schot.htm)

"In 1850, there appeared in all parts of Europe, the Schottische (shot-teesh), a round dance which had been executed in Bavaria under the name "Reinlander" (rine-lant-er). Two sisters from Odessa, returning from Hungary did a variation to the Rheinlander called the "Hungarian Waltz" which became very popular with all who saw it as well. In the Rheinish (sp?) countries, the Schottische was known as the "Bavarian Polka". Bohemia had called this dance by the name of Polka Tremblante. Fanny Cerrito was known to do the "Cerrito Schottische" in 1851.

However, the word Schottische is from Germany, not Scotland, even though the correct name of the dance is Scottish, (the Germans refereed to it as Schottische for some reason.) The Polka was known as the "Schottische waltz" around 1840 in Germany. The dance was known in France, England, Russia, Greece as well as others as its true name "Scottish," which have led many people to think that the Schottische was from Scotland, it was not.

[pygmalion]

Thanks, MadamSamba. :D

There's a whole world of dances out there that I know nothing about. :shock: Cool. Much more to learn. I happened to come across the name schottische in a listing of instructional dance videos, or I probably never would have heard of it. Hmm. But according to your (very cool :D ) websites, there's a whole family of interrelated dances in schottische family. Wow!

Thanks. I'll peruse those websites of yours some more, and try to get a handle on what'w what. :D

Jenn

[Black Sheep]

The Schottische was taught to me by my first wife in 1950. We divorcerd soon after. She explained it was a common dance in Idaho created by the Nez Perce' Indians at the time. I don't know why, but I remember it was done side by side with your arms crossed over your partners arms as you held hands so there was no way of escaping, I guess. And it was a walk, walk walk, a cros step to right and cross step to the left with a slight hop on each cross step, and repeated. A very simple version that I learned in the time it took me to see it done once. If my memory serves me right, it was an 8 count step just like the Texas Tommy Swing and just as exiting.
I think the Schottische Craze has hit Uganda, in Africa or my informants are mis informing me...again. If this information is true, thern we can soon :lol: :lol: expect the Schottische craze to hit Californias like all the Craszies do!
Black Sheep 'Your friendly Magic Pill Schottische instructor'.

[pygmalion]

I wondered about this, Joe. The videos I saw listed schottische with a bunch of American Country and Western dances. I am beginning to wonder if schottische isn't more like swing -- a bunch of interrelated dances that evolved into separate branches with different music, in different parts of the world. Hmm. I hope some other DF members will chime in with their knowledge as well, so I can figure this out.

[pygmalion]

Here's another piece of the puzzle.

http://www.basinstreet.com/Programs/DanceEvolution

[Black Sheep]

Pygmalion,
Although I had my tongue in my cheek about the Idaho Schottische, I really did learn it from my first wife in 1950 and the description I gave wasn't far off of what we did. There were other partners in the group and we did travel in a circle; there were four separate circles with about eight couples to a circle. I was nothing like Swing at all. It was a Square dance, and we did cross arms and it was more or less a walking type dance with a little skip in it. I don't remember doing any crossed steps, I just threw that in.
The dance had no semblance to the Lindy. Maybe the Texas Tommy Swingout, but not the WCS, ECS, LINDY,or another Ballroom dances. It was strictly a Square dance with a Caller, chanting the simple moves. The dance was Da!
It probably was the main reason I divorced my wife!
Give me the Nonna Peppa Tarentella Swingout any day!
Black Sheep

[pygmalion]

Hey Joe! No tongue in cheek allowed when I'm on the quest for real historical information. :shock: :D And no lindy in this forum, either! :lol: :tongue:

Seriously, though, tongue in cheek or not, it looks like you were on to something. Schottische was, at least at some point, a 19th century dance exported from Europe. And, so far, we've found at least two variations in Australia and one in the US. Not bad, in less than 24 hours! :D

[Spitfire]

I have a c&w instruction book written by a local dance instructor which describes Schottische this way:

Step to side with your left foot.

Step across and behind with right foot.

Step to side with left and swing right foot in front.

Repeat to other side.

Move foward with four step-hops.

[pygmalion]

Thanks, spitfire. :D

That settles it! I've gotta buy that video, and see what Kathy Blake says. I've seen her peabody video, and in that one, she gave a good description of the history of the dance. Maybe she does the same thing for schottische. *shrug*

[Vince A]

Thanks, spitfire. :D

That settles it! I've gotta buy that video, and see what Kathy Blake says. I've seen her peabody video, and in that one, she gave a good description of the history of the dance. Maybe she does the same thing for schottische. *shrug*
Hi Jenn,
With your present dance skills, you do not need the tape. You can learn that very easy couple dance in under a minute or two! I may have the dance description somewhere if I kept all my C&W teaching books. If I do, I'll get it to you!

[Vince A]

Jenn, I found here on the 'Net . . . I tell you, it's really easy!

SCHOTTISCHE (BASIC)

Description: 16-count partner dance:
Traditionally done right after Cotton-Eyed Joe.
Most recordings of CEJ are followed by a Schottische song.

Music: Mr Man In The Moon - Patty Loveless - 124
Ten Pretty Gils - Al Dean
Sweetheart Schottische - Issac Payton Sweat

VINE L, HITCH R, VINE R, HITCH L
1-2 Side step left, step right behind left
3-4 Side step left, hitch right
5-6 Side step right, step left behind right
7-8 Side step right, hitch left

STEP L, HITCH R, STEP L, HITCH R X 2
9-10 Step forward left, hitch right
11-12 Step forward right, hitch left
13-14 Step forward left, hitch right
15-16 Step forward right, hitch left

[pygmalion]

Hey Vince. As it turns out, my public library has that video. So I'm going to borrow it (for free -- a heck of a lot better than $42.95 :lol: ) and take a look along with your step description. Thanks. :D

[dancergal]

Jenn, I found here on the 'Net . . . I tell you, it's really easy!

SCHOTTISCHE (BASIC)

Description: 16-count partner dance:
Traditionally done right after Cotton-Eyed Joe.
Most recordings of CEJ are followed by a Schottische song.

Music: Mr Man In The Moon - Patty Loveless - 124
Ten Pretty Gils - Al Dean
Sweetheart Schottische - Issac Payton Sweat

VINE L, HITCH R, VINE R, HITCH L
1-2 Side step left, step right behind left
3-4 Side step left, hitch right
5-6 Side step right, step left behind right
7-8 Side step right, hitch left

STEP L, HITCH R, STEP L, HITCH R X 2
9-10 Step forward left, hitch right
11-12 Step forward right, hitch left
13-14 Step forward left, hitch right
15-16 Step forward right, hitch left

Hey Vince, we do a version of this dance at the Saddle Rack all the time, but I don't see it in your description. At one point the girl crosses in front of the man in a turn and then back, and he spins her before you do the last steps. Have you done the Schottische before? If you have, you'll know what I'm talking about.

[Vince A]

dancergal,
I think those are variations on the theme . . . just as in the Cowboy Cha Cha where you spin the girl out . . . some guys do a single turn and some can get a triple in - if the girl is willing and able. I know tha tinmost of the old C&W couple dances. I was never satisfied with just doing it the way it was choreographed! Maybe???

I thought there was something missing, and maybe it was what you metioned.

Thanks for bringing it up!

[dancergal]

It wasn't something extra, it was part of the dance the way they taught it. After you do your grapvines, the man turns the girl out, then to his left side and then back, she spins, he walks and it starts over again. Something like that, oh well. I'll have to find the dance steps that we learned. I don't do it anymore because no one knows it, but it's a cute dance and I can pick it up if the man knows it.

[d nice]

The original Schottische was neither a called dance nor a choreographed. The steps Vince posted are correct for the basic ballroom social dance. There are sorts of spins and turns other patterns that can be danced in it.

The country version varies depending on where you dance it. Some use it as a square dance with a caller, some use it like a choreographed partner dance. These are modern regional variations of the original dance.

In truth Joe is right it tends to be a pretty boring dance. Then again its point was not to instill excitement, but to afford an opportunity for a man and woman to engage in private conversation without being interuppted or overheard by a chaperone.

Not nearless as scandalous as the Vienesse Waltz.

[pygmalion]

Tra la la. Found a link that describes the basic step. http://www.freewheelers.org/1DancingFool/schott.htm

[Genesius Redux]

Oh! So that's the step they're all doing on all the songs I sit out on Monday nights when I go dancing at Silverado!

That's a venue in Nashville, BTW, where you can go to do ECS, WCS, Cha Cha, Rumba, Waltz, Foxtrot, Tango, Hustle, etc. every Monday night, but every four tunes or so they play a couple of two-steps followed by a Sweet Heart Schottische. I've always meant to learn those dances, but my brain isn't big enough to fit it all in right now! :lol:

[ShyDancer]

Just a little more info if you want to check it out ,on the Excelsior Schottise..

http://www.dancesport.org.au/newvogue/excelsio.html

The woman of course would be doing the natural opposite of these steps being in the Ballroom Hold.

[pygmalion]

You know. It's funny. When I first started this thread, I was thinking American Country and Western dances. Little did I realize that Schitsche spans he centuries and several continents. 8) Maybe I'll have to actually learn it one day. :? :lol:

[etchuck]

You know. It's funny. When I first started this thread, I was thinking American Country and Western dances. Little did I realize that Schitsche spans he centuries and several continents. 8) Maybe I'll have to actually learn it one day. :? :lol:

Well, now you know why I was so surprised when you said polka was a CW dance. I've done Schottische as a vintage dance. It's pretty easy, and I don't think you'll have a problem with it.

[Sagitta]

This dance is very easy. I just was shown it once at folk dance class tonight and went staright ahead and did it. It won't be a problem at all for you Jenn. In addition to the basic that is described on the link you provided you can do other stuff such as turns etc. Leader can turn follow instead of doing the closed turn, or turn the follow when doing the travelling steps...and...it's straightforward.

[MadamSamba]

Yeah...you guys should all come to Australia and we'll have a huge DF, New Vogue night and teach you all our New Vogue dances, including the Excelsior Schottische, which is a lovely dance! :)

[dnquark]

Here are some fun songs you can Schottische to:

Green Day - Misery -- a great Schottische!
No Doubt - Underneath It All
Sublime - Caress Me Down
UB40 - Cherry Oh Baby

And now my obligatory 2 cents on how to do it :)

The way I'm used to doing it (which is probably one of the original variations in Austria, or wherever it was that it originated) is going LOD, in an open side-by-side position (lead's hand on the follow's shoulder blade); lead starts on L and follow on R, as usual. Then it goes (for the lead) :

step(L)-step(R)-step(L)-hop(L),
step(R)-step(L)-step(R)-hop(R),
step-hop, step-hop, step-hop, step-hop.

That's the basic; instead of the step-hops you can come into closed position and pivot with your partner (same step-hop footwork).

There are other things you can do, add styling, etc. Lots of fun and silly variations that one can make up: separate from your partner and run around the couple ahead of you, have like 4 couples doing it in one line, or form a circle; try to capture some unsuspecting couple in that circle.

Too bad people don't know the dance unless they are into folk dancing, C&W stuff, or went to Stanford.

--l

[pygmalion]

Sounds like fun. Dang! I wish somebody around here taught it. Most of the country teachers here do line dance, waltz, country cha or rumba. Even polka. But no schottische. :(

[etchuck]

Sounds like fun. Dang! I wish somebody around here taught it. Most of the country teachers here do line dance, waltz, country cha or rumba. Even polka. But no schottische. :(

If you want, you can fly up here to Durham and take a private with my friend Chris as the instructor. If you want a partner, I'd be more than happy to accommodate you. ;)

[pygmalion]

You're a sweetie. :kissme:

[etchuck]

Thanks. :oops: If we were closer, I would be a bit more serious about the offer. Chris (and his fiancee Dawn) (http://www.trianglevintagedance.com/) keeps saying he's willing to offer me a private to return past assistance with supporting his Vintage Dancing. As mentioned before, I don't ever want to take a private alone.

Otherwise, if you know that Richard Powers (http://www.stanford.edu/dept/dance/faculty/rpowers.html) is going to be in the area, go to his vintage social dance workshops. Or you can go to Newport for the Vintage Dancing Week up there (http://vintagedancers.org/newport/).

Oh well... I can just dream about it I guess. :cry:

P.S. Of course, if we did actually live closer to each other, we may actually solve our mutual (lack of) dance partner problems. ;)

[lizzy lonewolf tombs]

its a person that comes from scotland :lol:

[blue]

Tra la la. Found a link that describes the basic step. http://www.freewheelers.org/1DancingFool/schott.htm
Wow, this is an exact description of the basics of what folk dancers here in Sweden call "schottis". Then there are a few different turns.

Here are some images and film clips (unfortunately, I do not have the software to watch them in this computer I use at the moment. To my understanding the clips should show some more or - mostly - less traditional schottis turns and variations)
http://home.swipnet.se/dans/texter/schottis.htm

A brief historical description, claiming that the schottische is originally from Bohemia
http://www.abacci.com/music/tunetype.asp?type=155
Just in case someone finds it interesting.

[WorkinOnIt]

I used to do this dance so well.. I could have competed in it. I remember goning to Denim and Diamonds.. I'm thinking around Nashville somewhere.. can't remember exactly.. did 5 ina row (what they are famous for) and by the time I got to their fastest one.. I barely even realized we were going as fast as we did.. when I heard the BPM.. I was shocked since I had never done it that fast in my life.. and I never skipped a move nor a beat and put variations in too! No one could believe it.. and neither could I! The bad part was.. once I left.. and went back home.. everything there seemed really SLOW and when I spoke to my dance partner (at that time) she agreed and we were both.. well.. disappointed realizing our challenge had come and gone and now we were faced with what was in front of us.. we excelled.. but the bar didn't.

I was NOT involved with Ann back then nor have I ever danced it that fast with her. ya really gotta know what you are doing.. leader and follower to pull this dance off well once you really get going. I've taught many.. however.. it's easier and flows better when both partners can hit it! THIS is NOT a slam on Ann at all.. I'm just clarifying so no one expects to see this done any time soon. :D 8) We do however still do it on the hardwod from time to time :wink: