Need USABDA/USA Dance syllabus

[Adwiz]

Where do I find the syllabus for Pre-Novice and Novice levels? I always see Bronze, Silver, Gold (or their ISTD equivalents) but never these two categories?

[ACtenDance]

In USA Dance, there is no pre-novice level, and for novice, there is no syllabus because that level allows open choreography. Hope that helps!

[Kitty]

Where do I find the syllabus for Pre-Novice and Novice levels? I always see Bronze, Silver, Gold (or their ISTD equivalents) but never these two categories?

At USA Dance comps in the "Novice" level open choreography is allowed (anything goes).

At NDCA comps there are levels "Novice bronze", "novice silver" and "novice gold" which are syllabus levels (ISTD syllabus), and "novice open" where open choreography is allowed.

[Adwiz]

Hmm. It was my understanding that Novice wasn't completely open; that it was similar to Pre-Champ in having some restrictions.

Many USABDA/USA Dance comps also have a Pre-Novice category. I have no idea what restrictions are involved. We have this category at the Seattle Star Ball coming up and it would be nice to know what level Pre-Novice corresponds to.

[SDsalsaguy]

Sometimes pre-novice means restricted to syllabus (meaning all the way up through gold) but novice (unless explicitly stated otherwise I guess) should always be open.

[smoozer]

Hmm. It was my understanding that Novice wasn't completely open; that it was similar to Pre-Champ in having some restrictions.

Many USABDA/USA Dance comps also have a Pre-Novice category. I have no idea what restrictions are involved. We have this category at the Seattle Star Ball coming up and it would be nice to know what level Pre-Novice corresponds to.

Seattle Star is an NDCA comp. To my knowledge you will not find pre novice at any USA Dance event in the NW. Novice is open no restriction using USA Dance criteria.

Adwiz were you at the NW Regional?

[Chris Stratton]

Hmm. It was my understanding that Novice wasn't completely open; that it was similar to Pre-Champ in having some restrictions.

Pre-champ doesn't have any syllabus restrictions either.

Unless you want to count the number of dances. Officially, Champ is recommended to be a five dance event, pre-champ a four dance event, and novice a three dance event. Though there is nothing to stop organizers from offering the missing dances as a second event in the level, which many do when there is room in their schedule.

[Laura]

Many USABDA/USA Dance comps also have a Pre-Novice category. I have no idea what restrictions are involved. We have this category at the Seattle Star Ball coming up and it would be nice to know what level Pre-Novice corresponds to.

The Seattle Star Ball is an NDCA-sanctioned competition. Their web site (seattlestarball.com) is confusing because it doesn't say so prominently, and because there's a link to a USABDA comp on their web page. If you click on the "Competitor" link on the left hand side, though, you get brought to a page that says it's an NDCA-recognized event. If you click on the "Policies" link in on the left side, it will take you to a page that gives some specific rules for this event (including a very odd one that says that Amateurs must be registered with USABDA, which is actually against current NDCA rules and is probably a mistaken hold-over from previous year's editions of this information page.) Also, you can find rules and information for NDCA competitions and syllabi on the ndca.org web site.

Pre-Novice is a weird kind of made-up category. You have to check each competition's web site to see what the rules are. Pre-Novice events are usually closed syllabus, meaning anything that is Bronze-through-Gold is allowed. But sometimes I've seen Pre-Novice events that say "Bronze and Silver only" on them. Your best bet would be to double-check with the organizer to see if it's the usual Bronze-through-Gold combined or what.

Getting back to the amateur dancers must be registered question...amateur dancers actually must be registered with the NDCA. You're in Canada, and I know there are some sorts of agreements as to what registrations are accepted from Candians, but the truth is I don't know what it is. So, you should check with the organizers and/or the NDCA on that, too.

[Adwiz]

Pre-champ doesn't have any syllabus restrictions either... Unless you want to count the number of dances.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I assumed there were some restrictions in Pre-Champ and Novice. I'm really confused now, however, because some events offer both Novice and "Open Novice" events. If Novice is open, how can there also be Open Novice?

[Katarzyna]

Pre-champ doesn't have any syllabus restrictions either... Unless you want to count the number of dances.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I assumed there were some restrictions in Pre-Champ and Novice. I'm really confused now, however, because some events offer both Novice and "Open Novice" events. If Novice is open, how can there also be Open Novice?

There are definitely no restrictions in Novice or Pre-champ... All those in between categories can get confusing though...

[Chris Stratton]

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I assumed there were some restrictions in Pre-Champ and Novice. I'm really confused now, however, because some events offer both Novice and "Open Novice" events. If Novice is open, how can there also be Open Novice?

Those would have to be NDCA or other non-USA Dance events. Probably if you look closely the non-open Novice events say "Novice Bronze" or "Novice Silver" or something like that. In that usage, the word novice is not the important part of the name, the syllabus level is. "Novice Open" is a good way to be clear what you mean: however in the context of the USA Dance rules, "Novice" always means "Novice Open"

[Chris Stratton]

There are definitely no restrictions in Novice or Pre-champ... All those in between categories can get confusing though...

Wait, I though pre-champ competitors weren't allowed to take such pretentious bows?

[Katarzyna]

There are definitely no restrictions in Novice or Pre-champ... All those in between categories can get confusing though...

Wait, I though pre-champ competitors weren't allowed to take such pretentious bows?
What can possibly be pretentious about a bow? The better you bow the more respect you show to the audience, self, and the dancing :)

[Kitty]

There are definitely no restrictions in Novice or Pre-champ... All those in between categories can get confusing though...

Wait, I though pre-champ competitors weren't allowed to take such pretentious bows?

"such pretentious bows" ? What do you mean? You think Kat's bows are too pretentious?

[Katarzyna]

There are definitely no restrictions in Novice or Pre-champ... All those in between categories can get confusing though...

Wait, I though pre-champ competitors weren't allowed to take such pretentious bows?

"such pretentious bows" ? What do you mean? You think Kat's bows are too pretentious?
Not sure he's talking about me since last time I did pre-champ I didn't really bow :(

Had to work on the bows since them, it's work in progress...

[standardgirl]

There are definitely no restrictions in Novice or Pre-champ... All those in between categories can get confusing though...

Wait, I though pre-champ competitors weren't allowed to take such pretentious bows?

"such pretentious bows" ? What do you mean? You think Kat's bows are too pretentious?
Not sure he's talking about me since last time I did pre-champ I didn't really bow :(

Had to work on the bows since them, it's work in progress...

You actually find time to work on the bows? :shock:
Does your coach help you with that? :lol:

I never thought of bows as an important part unless you are a world famous dancer. Guess I was wrong......

[Chris Stratton]

It was just a silly comment based on the kinds of things a dancer in our area used to say.

[skwiggy]

I never thought of bows as an important part unless you are a world famous dancer. Guess I was wrong......

You know how they say, "dress for the job you want, not for the job you have"? Well a take off on that would be, "present yourself as the dancer you want to be, not as the dancer you are". Bowing is part of presentation. ;)

[Katarzyna]

There are definitely no restrictions in Novice or Pre-champ... All those in between categories can get confusing though...

Wait, I though pre-champ competitors weren't allowed to take such pretentious bows?

"such pretentious bows" ? What do you mean? You think Kat's bows are too pretentious?
Not sure he's talking about me since last time I did pre-champ I didn't really bow :(


You actually find time to work on the bows? :shock:
Does your coach help you with that? :lol:

I never thought of bows as an important part unless you are a world famous dancer. Guess I was wrong......

Had to work on the bows since them, it's work in progress...

It takes time for some people like me to get comfortable being all out and not feeling silly. We spent some time on presentation with my coach, she worked on my poor bows, so did my partner :) Presentation and image is always VERY IMPORTANT...

[Katarzyna]

It was just a silly comment based on the kinds of things a dancer in our area used to say.
I know :) but didn't that person want the same thing from his partner ?

:lol:

[Katarzyna]

I never thought of bows as an important part unless you are a world famous dancer. Guess I was wrong......

You know how they say, "dress for the job you want, not for the job you have"? Well a take off on that would be, "present yourself as the dancer you want to be, not as the dancer you are". Bowing is part of presentation. ;)
Exactly!!!

[Kitty]

There are definitely no restrictions in Novice or Pre-champ... All those in between categories can get confusing though...

Wait, I though pre-champ competitors weren't allowed to take such pretentious bows?

"such pretentious bows" ? What do you mean? You think Kat's bows are too pretentious?
Not sure he's talking about me since last time I did pre-champ I didn't really bow :(

Had to work on the bows since them, it's work in progress...


hehe
but I can really bow... even in silver/gold...

what am I supposed to do, stand there ashamed that my natural turn wasn' perfect :lol: , let the judges know that I wasn't happy with my dancing? or should I pretend I am a star?

[Katarzyna]

Had to work on the bows since them, it's work in progress...


hehe
but I can really bow... even in silver/gold...

what am I supposed to do, stand there ashamed that my natural turn wasn' perfect :lol: , let the judges know that I wasn't happy with my dancing? or should I pretend I am a star?
Good for you, you should go all out !

[wyllo]

A judge at a seminar I attended said he will call back a couple based on the quality of their bow. If a judge is down to the last 1-2 couples to make callbacks and the music ends, the bow is all you have to set yourself apart. I've always been told that you are being judged from the moment you walk on the floor to the moment you leave so act like a champion at all times whether you are dancing bronze or championship level.

[skwiggy]

I've always been told that you are being judged from the moment you walk on the floor to the moment you leave so act like a champion at all times whether you are dancing bronze or championship level.

I've also been told you are being judged from the moment you enter the building. I don't think it's right, but it does happen.

[Katarzyna]

Subconsciously judges form an opinion about you before you begin dancing. Everything you do matters to some extent.

[alemana]

i need to learn how to bow.

[Katarzyna]

Watch someone you like, and try to replicate what they do.. I KNOW how difficult that can be if you are just not feeling it, but it gets better :)

[ACtenDance]

A judge at a seminar I attended said he will call back a couple based on the quality of their bow. If a judge is down to the last 1-2 couples to make callbacks and the music ends, the bow is all you have to set yourself apart. I've always been told that you are being judged from the moment you walk on the floor to the moment you leave so act like a champion at all times whether you are dancing bronze or championship level.

Of course there's also the little trick of walking off the floor last with your number facing the judges. If you're dancing a bronze heat with a million people in it, sometimes that's what it comes down to for a judge. Pick a number, ANY number. haha :lol:

[Katarzyna]

If you're dancing a bronze heat with a million people in it, sometimes that's what it comes down to for a judge. Pick a number, ANY number. haha :lol:

I love this one :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Kitty]

A judge at a seminar I attended said he will call back a couple based on the quality of their bow. If a judge is down to the last 1-2 couples to make callbacks and the music ends, the bow is all you have to set yourself apart. I've always been told that you are being judged from the moment you walk on the floor to the moment you leave so act like a champion at all times whether you are dancing bronze or championship level.

Of course there's also the little trick of walking off the floor last with your number facing the judges. If you're dancing a bronze heat with a million people in it, sometimes that's what it comes down to for a judge. Pick a number, ANY number. haha :lol:

:shock:

that's soooo terrible! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Katarzyna]

:shock:

that's soooo terrible! :lol: :lol: :lol:

I am sure it happens.. A lot :)

Especially comps like Harvard Beginners with over 10 heats.. :)

[wyllo]

At one college competition with large rounds my partner and I got called back for a dance we didn't even compete in! Kind of funny, but I guess a judge was desperate and remembered our number from an earlier round (or a volunteer scrutineer recorded the results incorrectly).

Since colleges often run really big heats to keep on schedule, it is easy to get overlooked by the judges, so knowing a couple of 'tricks' can be handy to get you into the next round where there will be fewer dancers and you can really be judged.

[Chris Stratton]

And then there's the times the MC starts reading numbers and berating couples for not being on the floor....

... couples who aren't entered in the event being danced.

[cl5814]

LMAO, wyllo and Chris. I thought about it...

[ACtenDance]

At the Triangle Open at NC State this year, our scrutineer set up his program wrong. When it came time for call backs, the people getting called back were the ones that were cut instead of the ones that were marked through... mass confusion for the first session, ick, never want to have that happen again.

[Laura]

I'm really confused now, however, because some events offer both Novice and "Open Novice" events. If Novice is open, how can there also be Open Novice?

Oy vey, this is why there should be standardized terminology. Some NDCA comps offer closed-syllabus events. Sometimes they are called "Closed Syllabus" meaning that anything Bronze-through-Gold is allowed. Sometimes they are called "Pre-Novice," and usually anything Bronze-through-Gold is allowed. And sometimes, when there is also an "Open Novice" division, they are called "Novice," and intend that the steps be restricted to the Bronze-through-Gold syllabus. Your best bet is to ask the organizer to be sure of what is going on.

Personally, I think if they're going to have a Closed Syllabus event, they should just call it that. My second favorite choice is to call it "Pre-Novice (closed syllabus)". Calling it "Novice" and then having a second "Open Novice" category just makes no sense. But I've seen it happen.

[Joe]

I thought ladies were supposed to curtsy, not bow.

[standardgirl]

A pro once told me that at lower level (like bronze, silver), you should bow to your partner instead of the audience. Not really a full bow, it's more like to ackonwledge your partner and thank him/her for dancing with you.

Anyone else ever heard of this?

Oops..didn't realize there is now a seperate topic for this, guess I will post there instead...... :oops:

[Katarzyna]

I've heard that before, also heard that between the rounds you should acknowledge your partner and the biggest full out bow is during presentation of couples or during the last dance...

[Joe]

Gee, Kat changes avatars as often as she changes ballgowns. ;)

[Katarzyna]

Gee, Kat changes avatars as often as she changes ballgowns. ;)
I guess I'm a little worse than you, you seem to change yours frequently too :)

[Kitty]

Gee, Kat changes avatars as often as she changes ballgowns. ;)

I love this new one!

[Katarzyna]

Gee, Kat changes avatars as often as she changes ballgowns. ;)

I love this new one!
Thank you kitty cat :)

[Kitty]

Gee, Kat changes avatars as often as she changes ballgowns. ;)

I love this new one!
Thank you kitty cat :)

You welcome, cat, I mean, kat. :D