View Full Version : The Difference Between WCS and Lindy Hop Enthusiasts.
Spitfire
10-23-2003, 08:42 AM
I don't know if this is representative, but from my observation of the local scene it seems like WCS dancers who get together and do only WCS are also into other dances as well. The Lindy hoppers here on the other hand do just Lindy Hop; few of them do other dances. I'm wondering if this is just a local thing here or is fairly common elsewhere.
Vince A
10-23-2003, 09:38 AM
I don't know if this is representative, but from my observation of the local scene it seems like WCS dancers who get together and do only WCS are also into other dances as well. The Lindy hoppers here on the other hand do just Lindy Hop; few of them do other dances. I'm wondering if this is just a local thing here or is fairly common elsewhere.
I've noticed the same thing . . . although it's probably not true.
I've been to three studio dances in the last few months. There were many Lindy Hoppers there and very few WCS dancers. The WCS dancers danced just about everything - WCS, ECS, Cha Cha, Salsa, Hustle, Waltz, Lindy, and so on.
The LH's only did the Lindy, and a few of them did ECS.
I did do a WCS with a young lady who said she had never danced a WCS, yet wanted to try it. She followed very well, but of course, had a tendency to make her own slot! I tried the Lindy, after a very quick lesson from her, and I struggled with that. So, we were even, but it left me wanting for more!
SwinginBoo
10-23-2003, 09:58 AM
THis is not true, at least for me. While lindy is my love, I will jump right into ECS, WCS, Waltz, Hustle, Cha-cha, NC2S, Salsa...you name it and I'm there. I go to WCS dances once in a while and often go to a dance that combines all of the above dances into one night of dancing. I'm not sure you can generalize about an entire population of dancers. Each person has individual tastes. Just my opinion...
Vince A
10-23-2003, 12:16 PM
THis is not true, at least for me. While lindy is my love, I will jump right into ECS, WCS, Waltz, Hustle, Cha-cha, NC2S, Salsa...you name it and I'm there. I go to WCS dances once in a while and often go to a dance that combines all of the above dances into one night of dancing. I'm not sure you can generalize about an entire population of dancers. Each person has individual tastes. Just my opinion...
And I don't think it true in most places . . . here in N. California, WCS is pretty strong, and yet I hear others from the area say that Lindy is very strong. It's just the venues that I go to are mostly Hustle and Swing . . . WCS!!!
d nice
10-23-2003, 12:32 PM
Most experienced lindy hoppers dance lindy hop, as well as some jitterbug, balboa, bal-swing, colligiate shag, and some times some WCS, ECS, or Carolina shag depending on what part of the country you are in.
DanceMentor
10-23-2003, 12:45 PM
One thing I find that both have in common is they have some very devoted followers. While there are people who dance multiple dances, you often find people who spend most of their time doing one, especially when it comes to Lindy and WCS.
Vince A
10-23-2003, 01:23 PM
I hope, that when a couple of things work-related and health-related concerns get resolved, I can take about 6 months of Lindy lessons.
Then maybe, I can answer this curiosity motivated issue for my own discernment.
Swing Kitten
10-23-2003, 01:27 PM
I hope everything is ok Vince ... take care of yourself!
Vince A
10-23-2003, 02:30 PM
Thanks . . things are getting better, day-by-day!
I don't know if this is representative, but from my observation of the local scene it seems like WCS dancers who get together and do only WCS are also into other dances as well. The Lindy hoppers here on the other hand do just Lindy Hop; few of them do other dances. I'm wondering if this is just a local thing here or is fairly common elsewhere.
There are longstanding relationships and influences between the WCS, Hustle, and Country dance worlds and a lot of people crossover. Lindy has a different family of dances people tend to crossover with, like the faster Shags and Balboa.
Some good dancers branch out over time and some concentrate more and more deeply on one form. WCS dancers tend to be considerably older than Lindy dancers and so may have had more time to be exposed to other dance forms, or come to WCS from other dance forms. Beyond that I wouldn't generalize.
Spitfire
10-23-2003, 08:05 PM
And again I'm only talking about what I notice locally and certainly not trying to make any generalizations here and that's why I ask since we are in different areas most of which I've never been to let alone never danced in. :D
Spitfire
10-23-2003, 08:09 PM
I hope, that when a couple of things work-related and health-related concerns get resolved, I can take about 6 months of Lindy lessons.
Then maybe, I can answer this curiosity motivated issue for my own discernment.
I'm reminded that I'll be missing dancing in a few months as I am having surgery after the holidays.
Swing Kitten
10-24-2003, 05:27 PM
yikes! I hope everything is okay!
Spitfire
10-24-2003, 05:34 PM
yikes! I hope everything is okay!
It will be; after all it doesn't have to be done until after New Years. :)
Swing Kitten
10-24-2003, 05:44 PM
Well I didn't know if that would be when your new kidney would be available or something like that! sheesh! ;)
CCKitty
10-26-2003, 09:05 AM
Hi, I'm new to this board.
I have noticed this too. My geographical location is Milwaukee, WI and my love is Lindy Hop, Balboa, Shag, and Charleston. I've noticed that the WCS dancers are into more of the other types of dance than the ones who share my love of lindy.
Here is a thought, see what you make of it. The correct body posture for lindy-hop, ECS, & Charleston is very different than that used in ballroom, salsa, WCS, etc. I think that whichever side of that fence you are coming from, it feels kind of 'wrong' to change your stance dramatically.
I'd love to learn all kinds of dance, but I love even more to 'shine' at lindy-hop.
SDsalsaguy
10-26-2003, 01:21 PM
Welcome to the forums CCKitty! :D
Personally I also think it has to do with the "flavor" of certain dances. ECS and Jive, for instance, have much more of a "up" energy and attitude then other more "earthy" Latin/Rhythm dances such as rumba, cha cha, and samba. As such, there isn't always the same connection to the music and/or the dance itself... totally aside from technical variances. Just my 2 cents...
Spitfire
10-26-2003, 01:38 PM
Hi, I'm new to this board.
I have noticed this too. My geographical location is Milwaukee, WI and my love is Lindy Hop, Balboa, Shag, and Charleston. I've noticed that the WCS dancers are into more of the other types of dance than the ones who share my love of lindy.
Here is a thought, see what you make of it. The correct body posture for lindy-hop, ECS, & Charleston is very different than that used in ballroom, salsa, WCS, etc. I think that whichever side of that fence you are coming from, it feels kind of 'wrong' to change your stance dramatically.
I'd love to learn all kinds of dance, but I love even more to 'shine' at lindy-hop.
CCKitty,
Welcome to the forum, :D
If you're into a variety of dances the difference in posture is not a problem, but the let it all hang out aspect as I like to think of it is what makes the swing dances appealing. :)
Spitfire
10-26-2003, 01:42 PM
Well I didn't know if that would be when your new kidney would be available or something like that! sheesh! ;)
Nothing as serious a that. :wink:
The worst thing is that I'm going to be out of dancing for at least two weeks. :cry:
Dancegal
10-27-2003, 02:37 PM
From what I've seen in Texas, the WCS crowd is decisively older-40's and up-with some exceptions (30-something instructors trying to attract younger crowds to the dance) while the Lindy crowd is primarily 20-somethings with some teens and 30-40 somethings in the mix (Lindy crowd being more clean-cut). I learned 6-count swing and Charleston first, followed by WCS and Lindy and it seems that many WCS folks were once Lindy dancers but I don't see the reverse (WCS to Lindy) happening much. I switch from Lindy to WCS easily (posture and all) - to me each dance reflects a different "mood" - Lindy as playful, happy-go-lucky and WCS as the naughty one. I also dance salsa & merengue (which I knew prior to learning any swing), but not as much as the swing dances - alas, the crowd I hang with just don't seem to care for latin dances - and I don't care for the "pick-up" salsa scenes.
Spitfire
10-30-2003, 07:36 AM
Something else I've noticed.
At any lindy dance that I've ever been to the group class beforehand is either single time or triple time; seldom is it any eight count. I've been told that the one of reasons is that it will make it less difficult to learn eight count if this is taught first which makes sense.
Lindy classes here are generally given seperate from the dances.
The WCS group here on the other hand teaches strictly WCS at all their classes.
CCKitty
10-30-2003, 09:17 AM
In the Milwaukee area also, the free swing lesson before a dance is typically 6 count (East Coast) Swing. A person who never danced before can learn enough in 30 minutes to play with it and have fun for the rest of the evening.
Lindy Hop requires about 3 lessons to get the basics and some practice time before it feels comfortable.
A person can learn Lindy Hop without learning 6 count swing first, but it is always a benefit to have some dance experince first. Especially knowing the basics of how to lead and follow.
SwinginBoo
10-30-2003, 09:56 AM
A person can learn Lindy Hop without learning 6 count swing first, but it is always a benefit to have some dance experince first. Especially knowing the basics of how to lead and follow.
I couldn't agree more. It is only my opinion, but it seems that knowledge of 6 count makes it easier to transition into 8 count. It also provides more resources to draw upon when dancing.
Spitfire
10-30-2003, 06:07 PM
A person who never danced before can learn enough in 30 minutes to play with it and have fun for the rest of the evening.
That's another reason that was put to me since the hosts like to see as many people dancing as possible - seems to work.
The last lindy workshop held here included ECS as well.
d nice
10-30-2003, 06:33 PM
Personally I abhor the idea of teaching anything before lindy hop as a "requirement". If I want to learn how to run a marathon, learning how to sprint isn't going to do me much good. All that time is better spent learning what I actually want to achieve, IMO.
Most "lindy dances" are actually simply swing dances. In the club environment ECS dancers don't normally last. They either move on to a new hobby or pick up the more versatile lindy hop.
Lindy hop is often taught in a far more complicated manner thasn necessary and ecs is usually taught in a throw away format. Neither is particularly beneficial.
Most "lindy dances" are actually simply swing dances. In the club environment ECS dancers don't normally last. They either move on to a new hobby or pick up the more versatile lindy hop.
Only in environments where there's a lindy hard core to influence things. For example, the swing dance community in the Research Triangle in the early 1990s, prior to the lindy boomlet, sustained hundreds of ECS dancers.
I think it's very appropriate to teach 6-count ECS as the beginning lesson. Very few new dancers could go from zero to doing a Lindy swingout competently after one hour's lesson. And very few of them know what they "want to achieve" other than having a fun evening.
CCKitty
10-30-2003, 08:48 PM
No other dance experience is required when I teach a lindy series. But there is a noticable difference in the learning curve between people who already know how to lead and follow, and those who don't.
I spend a great deal of time on very basic lead and follow techniques, which is review to some and brand new concepts to others. The newbies have so much more to remember all at once.
SDsalsaguy
10-30-2003, 08:55 PM
Absolutely true Kitty! If I'm reading Damon's post correctly, however, I think his point is that the fastest way to teach someone Lindy is to teach them Lindy... AOFBE, of course. (Did I get that right?)
Swing Kitten
10-30-2003, 09:01 PM
Oh definately CCKitty, that lead follow connection is the entire point... and takes practice. I would be shocked if there wasn't a difference between the newbies and those who know another dance. Sort of like those who already know a language other than their own can learn more languages more easily.
How long have you been teaching? Rock on with your lindy teaching self!!
Dancegal
10-30-2003, 11:56 PM
I once took a one-night 2 hour Lindy "crash course" after I had been ECS dancing for months (but had not had WCS lessons yet) and was not comfortable at all with the swingout by the end of the night. I practiced it, but the circular nature of the dance made me dizzy (had not experienced this with other dances), struggled with the steps to the point that I did not enjoy it and chose not to take further lessons at the time. It wasn't until I had danced WCS for 4 months that I wanted another dance challenge and chose Lindy again. It was waaaay easier to learn the second time around and much more enjoyable. Made ECS look like just "plain vanilla" dancing.
I find that the Lindy connection is "tighter" than that of WCS (due to the body positioning and the circular vs. slotted-WCS nature of the dance) and it did take about 2-3 months to get the right connection "feel" -but it was SO worth it. It opened a whole new dancing world and introduced me to what I call the Lindy "subculture". In ECS dancing, I've seen folks get away with connection that's little more than holding fingertips and the moves do not allow much room for the follow to "play" a little. Personally, I like the Lindy connection :wink: better. Beginners with little dance experience do need to be taught basic single & triple step 6-count (easy to learn and apply immediately on the dance floor), and taught basic connection (particularly closed position) in order to smoothly transition into Lindy dancers.
CCKitty
10-31-2003, 12:05 AM
Well, I'm really an intermediate lindy hopper - but I'm competent, and I have a knack for clear teaching. (Part of my day job involves teaching too). I've taught lindy for about 2 years now. I started teaching because of the lack of leads in our lindy scene. Our social dance scene had about 10 follows for every lead here for awhile. I'm not exaggerating!
Several follows volunteered to help out. A friend (a lead) and I put together a 4 week series of beginner lindy hop and advertised it with flyers that were given out to leads only. No follows were turned away....but I suggested that they try to capture a lead to bring with them.
We've had several very successful classes of lindy hoppers.
CCKitty
10-31-2003, 12:07 AM
We taught lindy hop in a way that we had not seen anyone else teach. It seemed to work very well. We began (like most teachers) teaching the rhythm/footwork in place (or going around the room) without partners. But (unlike others) when we started teaching the basics with partners we taught several spins before teaching the lindy circle and finally after 2 weeks, the basic swing out. The swing out is a tricky thing to master and the students seemed to get it much easier after having a couple weeks of playing with the rhythm.
Spitfire
10-31-2003, 08:39 AM
I do have an interest in getting more into Lindy Hop, but I do have some concerns here.
To begin with I have been doing triple time ECS for a very long time now having learned it long before lindy hop made a revival and this along with cha-cha are my equal favorites. When you find something you like you tend to stick with it so with me there is that if the toy's not broke don't fix it mind set so Lindy Hop to me would be an addition and not a replacement once and if I get around to it.
I have learned the throwout move that is the basic component. This is a very nice stylish move, but I don't know if I could do this move repeatedly as I have seen lindy dancers do here. If I'm missing something here I'm certainly open to suggestions.
Lindy instruction is not readily available since the scene here has diminished and thus there are not many classes given by the local lindy group at this time. The studios here for their part have not been teaching lindy because there just hasn't been a demand for it.
I don't question the personal viewpoints of lindy dancers who say that lindy hop is more energetic and versatile then ECS and maybe it's just me, but I certainly feel as though I've been able to take things beyond "plain vanilla."
Spitfire, get your butt to Mesa tonite! The Phoenix exchange is on (www.phoenixlindyexchange.com) and I'm there in spirit if not in body. The Phoenix area lindy scene is alive and well and has some great people and excellent dancers.
The dance tonite is in the Mesa Sheraton. All in conjunction with the jazz festival...live music.
Call 480 205-4151. Tell Dabney hello from me.
Go. Dance. Watch. And then dance some more. Stop analyzing; let your body--your heart and your pulse and your feet--decide.
Best,
Sue
Spitfire
10-31-2003, 12:07 PM
Spitfire, get your butt to Mesa tonite! The Phoenix exchange is on (www.phoenixlindyexchange.com) and I'm there in spirit if not in body. The Phoenix area lindy scene is alive and well and has some great people and excellent dancers.
The dance tonite is in the Mesa Sheraton. All in conjunction with the jazz festival...live music.
Call 480 205-4151. Tell Dabney hello from me.
Go. Dance. Watch. And then dance some more. Stop analyzing; let your body--your heart and your pulse and your feet--decide.
Best,
Sue
I was thinking of going up tommorow night. Don't want to do so tonight since there's Halloween dance party I'm going to attend.
d nice
10-31-2003, 01:39 PM
Don't worry Spitfire, no one will insist that you stop dancing ECS... however with time you'll probably decide you prefer Lindy Hop...
Why?
Most of what you know and love in ECS is taken directly from Lindy Hop. We use a bit more "natural" lead/follow to create the exact same moves. If Cha-Cha and ECS are your favorites I can't imagine you falling i love with Lindy Hop... the footwork rhythm is extremely similar to CHa-Cha (we sing the "cha-cha-cha" part, but it is step-step, triple-step, step-step, triple-step) the moves are again the root of most of the ECS moves just done with a slightly differnt "character".
Throw out and the whip/swingout are variations of the same move but we don't execute a series of throw outs. The main swing out starts in an extended open, one handed position brings the follower in you turn her around clockwise, and send her back out. It is the linking move, so it is not necessary done as frequently as the basic step in ECS it is used to transition from the other moves.
Hook up wiht Dabney. He will be able to get the ball rolling for you letting you know what workshop/events are in Arizona and make suggestions about what you can do in your neck of the woods.
CCKitty
10-31-2003, 06:48 PM
Most lindy hoppers don't do swing out after swingout once they learn more variations. They like to mix it up.
Before I learned to lindy hop, I was only doing ECS. A couple of instructors threw in a few 8 count moves. It was only with those moves that I experienced break-throughs in my learning process.
I later came to realize that 8 count dances are more in tune with the music. In the music, patterns repeat in series of 8 beats. I felt the music more when I danced 8 count rhythms, and was able to anticipate the breaks without knowing the particular songs.
Spitfire
11-01-2003, 10:43 AM
Don't worry Spitfire, no one will insist that you stop dancing ECS... however with time you'll probably decide you prefer Lindy Hop...
Why?
Most of what you know and love in ECS is taken directly from Lindy Hop. We use a bit more "natural" lead/follow to create the exact same moves. If Cha-Cha and ECS are your favorites I can't imagine you falling i love with Lindy Hop... the footwork rhythm is extremely similar to CHa-Cha (we sing the "cha-cha-cha" part, but it is step-step, triple-step, step-step, triple-step) the moves are again the root of most of the ECS moves just done with a slightly differnt "character".
Throw out and the whip/swingout are variations of the same move but we don't execute a series of throw outs. The main swing out starts in an extended open, one handed position brings the follower in you turn her around clockwise, and send her back out. It is the linking move, so it is not necessary done as frequently as the basic step in ECS it is used to transition from the other moves.
Hook up wiht Dabney. He will be able to get the ball rolling for you letting you know what workshop/events are in Arizona and make suggestions about what you can do in your neck of the woods.
Ah, the cha-cha similarity; cha- cha even has a variation on the throw out. 8)
Spitfire
11-01-2003, 10:50 AM
Another difference is the dances themselves. Here there is usually live music and the lindy/swing dances, but the WCS dances are all recorded music.
Spitfire
11-23-2003, 09:50 AM
Most of what you know and love in ECS is taken directly from Lindy Hop. We use a bit more "natural" lead/follow to create the exact same moves.
If I can get back to this subject.
This is another point. Many of the moves I learned in ECS such as the continuous tuck turn, pretzel and reverse pretzel, wrap in and yo-yo and arm slide; I myself have never seen lindy hoppers use any of these patterns making me think these are perhaps purely ECS style allthough They do work with eight count as well and some of the lindy follows who have danced ECS with me thought they were actually quite cool.
Are they a part of lindy too?
Again, I can only go by what I see here.
Most of what you know and love in ECS is taken directly from Lindy Hop. We use a bit more "natural" lead/follow to create the exact same moves.
If I can get back to this subject.
This is another point. Many of the moves I learned in ECS such as the continuous tuck turn, pretzel and reverse pretzel, wrap in and yo-yo and arm slide; I myself have never seen lindy hoppers use any of these patterns making me think these are perhaps purely ECS style allthough They do work with eight count as well and some of the lindy follows who have danced ECS with me thought they were actually quite cool.
Are they a part of lindy too?
Again, I can only go by what I see here.
I took ECS for almost a year before starting lindy. And even though I don't know the the moves you mentioned above (except for tuck turn) by name, I bet I do 'em all the time. I can tell you that every single move and choreography variation we learned in ECS has been led to me in lindy dances. Good lindy leads mix up six- and eight-count moves--driven of course by the phrasing of the music. It's simple math: One can do an eight-count move and four sixes and end up back at the beginning of a 32-count phrase. Or any combinations thereof. Or even come back at the end of the second phrase.
Then again, there are those who dance without any obvious or subtle connection to the phrasing of the music. That would be why I started that sentence up there about lindy leads with "Good."
Also recommend you go back and read some of the posts on the evolution of the swing dances. (I don't have the time right now to find the links for you; sorry.) All of these six-count moves, all of these dances, have their roots in LH.
Sagitta
11-23-2003, 12:58 PM
I agree with Suek. There is a champion lindy hopper who comes to the tuesday night lindy hops and other lindy events. He mixes it all up...balboa, charleston shag, charleston, ECS, WCS...when dancing lindy...it all depends on the music. And whenever he dances he is a sight to watch...awe-inspiring!! I enjoyed watching him on Friday when I went to a swing dance though I wasn't in a dancing mood. [A little bit of a cold coming on...]
Swing Kitten
11-23-2003, 04:38 PM
all sorts of knots can happen
d nice
11-24-2003, 05:23 AM
Most of what you know and love in ECS is taken directly from Lindy Hop. We use a bit more "natural" lead/follow to create the exact same moves.
If I can get back to this subject.
This is another point. Many of the moves I learned in ECS such as the continuous tuck turn, pretzel and reverse pretzel, wrap in and yo-yo and arm slide; I myself have never seen lindy hoppers use any of these patterns making me think these are perhaps purely ECS style allthough They do work with eight count as well and some of the lindy follows who have danced ECS with me thought they were actually quite cool.
Are they a part of lindy too?
Again, I can only go by what I see here.
Yes, they exist, but are used sparingly... Lindy Hop has such a large repetoire of moves that there tend to be regional and national trends of what moves are currently popular. The pretzels are currently replaced with basketr whips and tunneling basket whips. The tuck turn is one of the basic turns in lindy hop, and some varuation is always in vogue.
Spitfire
11-24-2003, 07:51 PM
Most of what you know and love in ECS is taken directly from Lindy Hop. We use a bit more "natural" lead/follow to create the exact same moves.
If I can get back to this subject.
This is another point. Many of the moves I learned in ECS such as the continuous tuck turn, pretzel and reverse pretzel, wrap in and yo-yo and arm slide; I myself have never seen lindy hoppers use any of these patterns making me think these are perhaps purely ECS style allthough They do work with eight count as well and some of the lindy follows who have danced ECS with me thought they were actually quite cool.
Are they a part of lindy too?
Again, I can only go by what I see here.
Yes, they exist, but are used sparingly... Lindy Hop has such a large repetoire of moves that there tend to be regional and national trends of what moves are currently popular. The pretzels are currently replaced with basketr whips and tunneling basket whips. The tuck turn is one of the basic turns in lindy hop, and some varuation is always in vogue.
What is a basket whip? Can you describe it?
alfborge
03-23-2004, 09:04 AM
What is a basket whip? Can you describe it?
Spitfire
03-23-2004, 09:49 AM
What is a basket whip? Can you describe it?
I just learned recently having taken up WCS.
Basket whip described here. (http://www.swingcraze.com/ussds/WestCoastSwing/Steps/Basket.html)
pygmalion
03-26-2004, 05:46 PM
Is that the same pattern as the men's basket or the analogous women's basket? It's hard for me to describe, but I'll look around for a description or clips.
pygmalion
03-26-2004, 05:58 PM
Yup. Looks like I waas visualizing the right step patterns. Haven't found any descriptions or clips yet, though. :?
pygmalion
03-26-2004, 06:11 PM
I fear this may be as good as it gets. Basic dance notation for a basket is included here. cryptic, but correct.
http://www.dancestudent.com/dnld_wcswing_gp_01.html
pygmalion
03-26-2004, 06:28 PM
Unfortunately, the basket whip isn't here. It was a good guess, though. :roll: :wink:
But, if you're relatively new to WCS, I think you may enjoy these video clips, anyway.
http://www.ballroomdancers.com/Dances/featured_steps.asp?Dance=WCS
DWise1
03-26-2004, 06:38 PM
I fear this may be as good as it gets. Basic dance notation for a basket is included here. cryptic, but correct.
http://www.dancestudent.com/dnld_wcswing_gp_01.html
The description there looks like a locked whip. Is "basket whip" just another term for a locked whip?
Is "basket whip" just another term for a locked whip?
Right.
swinginstyle
04-01-2004, 05:37 AM
I must admit I prefer the use of the term "locked whip", primarily because the guy's footwork is identical to their footwork in the whip.
SDsalsaguy
04-01-2004, 05:47 AM
Just wanted to say welcome to the Forums swinginstyle! :D
Swing Kitten
04-01-2004, 06:10 AM
Indeed, welcome to the forums!! :D
so does the name of 'basket whip' somehow imply that the leads footwork ought to be different? I guess I'm not seeing the connection between the difference of 'lock' and 'basket' translating to footwork.
swinginstyle
04-01-2004, 06:47 AM
I think the term "basket" may derive from a ballroom syllabus. It's similar to what I may call the "cuddle". Regardless, I think it's the idea that we, as the leads, lock the girl up (in essence, wrap her in).
Thanks for the welcome
swinginstyle
04-01-2004, 06:50 AM
What is a basket whip? Can you describe it?
For the lady, steps 1-4 are a forward progression. You want to allow the guy to harness your momentum, then start redirecting between counts 4, 5. As you travel back toward the spot where you began, stepping 5, 6, you should reach the end of your slot on 6, so you can anchor in place (7&8). The guy wraps the lady in 1-4 (the start is very similar to an underarm pass, right side). Then he redirects her down the slot.
Had to insert this in here. I just taught this move last night.
swinginstyle
04-01-2004, 06:55 AM
Now, I wanted to speak about my scene in Kansas City. Our West Coast community is mainly older, average age perhaps 40-ish. The westies, though, are very supportive of lindy hop efforts. They also seem to do more dances. On the other hand, the lindy hoppers are quite limited in the number of dances they're able to do well, mainly their vintage lindy styles. Many of our lindy hoppers appear stand-offish (snobby) toward westies, their music, etc.
There are crossovers among the westies and lindy hoppers that do cross the divide. I find that these people are what I consider "swing" dancers. They are versatile and are willing to dance swing, whatever form it may be, whether west coast, bal, shag, lindy, blues, etc, to a variety of music. It's these people, the crossovers, and the westies, I am most comfortable with, simply because they are more accepting. They seem to value differences more and are willing to learn than our "pure" lindy hoppers.
Spitfire
04-01-2004, 08:08 AM
Now, I wanted to speak about my scene in Kansas City. Our West Coast community is mainly older, average age perhaps 40-ish. The westies, though, are very supportive of lindy hop efforts. They also seem to do more dances. On the other hand, the lindy hoppers are quite limited in the number of dances they're able to do well, mainly their vintage lindy styles. Many of our lindy hoppers appear stand-offish (snobby) toward westies, their music, etc.
There are crossovers among the westies and lindy hoppers that do cross the divide. I find that these people are what I consider "swing" dancers. They are versatile and are willing to dance swing, whatever form it may be, whether west coast, bal, shag, lindy, blues, etc, to a variety of music. It's these people, the crossovers, and the westies, I am most comfortable with, simply because they are more accepting. They seem to value differences more and are willing to learn than our "pure" lindy hoppers.
Welcome to the forums swinginstyle. :D 8)
It's pretty much like that here and the monthly swing dances held here are "integrated" as far as the styles go.
bgirlswinger
04-01-2004, 09:47 AM
i don't like to watch wcs,... i lvoe to watch lindy. I will do wcs- to soem songs- becasue they are fun. But I am not a big wcs person.
amber d.
Swing Kitten
04-01-2004, 10:19 AM
I think the term "basket" may derive from a ballroom syllabus. It's similar to what I may call the "cuddle". Regardless, I think it's the idea that we, as the leads, lock the girl up (in essence, wrap her in).
:lol: wait, so how does that relate to footwork again?? ah.. it's really not important... most people just call it which every way they learn it. :shrug: ;)
Vince A
04-01-2004, 10:31 AM
I think the term "basket" may derive from a ballroom syllabus. It's similar to what I may call the "cuddle". Regardless, I think it's the idea that we, as the leads, lock the girl up (in essence, wrap her in).
:lol: wait, so how does that relate to footwork again?? ah.. it's really not important... most people just call it which every way they learn it. :shrug: ;)
I agree . . . however, the only time that I've ever had to use "terms" is when I'm taking a private and the teacher says to do "a continuous basket whip, with an inside lady's turn, exchange hands, to a forward lunge dip, take her out with two phantom turns, to a double arm lock, ending up by spinning the lady out to an anchor."
I usually say . . . "what was that first one you said?"
J/K . . . but if you get my drift here . . . if you do know some of the terms that go with the moves, you won't lose valuable time ($$$$) by having them show you one of those particular moves.
So, so learn them . . . they're important.
DWise1
04-01-2004, 02:16 PM
I think the term "basket" may derive from a ballroom syllabus. It's similar to what I may call the "cuddle". Regardless, I think it's the idea that we, as the leads, lock the girl up (in essence, wrap her in).
:lol: wait, so how does that relate to footwork again?? ah.. it's really not important... most people just call it which every way they learn it. :shrug: ;)
I normally assume that the same move will be known by more than one name.
In our beginning WCS class, our instructor shows us the men's footwork first for the basic whip, then for the inside whip, and then for outside whip. Then she says what should have been obvious if we had watched her closely enough: the men's footwork is the same for each of those whips.
And the men's footwork for the locked whip is ... the same. For the woman, it's like when a man goes shopping: go straight in, stay there a moment, then straight back out.
One thing I find that both have in common is they have some very devoted followers. While there are people who dance multiple dances, you often find people who spend most of their time doing one, especially when it comes to Lindy and WCS.
what he said - although i'd consider it true of all 'club' dances.
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