what makes a really good lead?

[Danoo]

ok i know theres probably about a hundred topics on this but im goin to ask anyway.

is it a good grip of the hands/body that makes a good lead?
is it good strength of the leader?
do followers need to have more resistance?

any help please?

[Sagitta]

ok i know theres probably about a hundred topics on this but im goin to ask anyway.

is it a good grip of the hands/body that makes a good lead?
is it good strength of the leader?
do followers need to have more resistance?

any help please? :doh: Youa sked for it! :P :) Long time no see danoo, I think. How's the dancing with the twins going.... A good leader dances at the level of the person they are dancing with. I'll try and dig out some old threads too. :wink: :)

[kdogg]

ok i know theres probably about a hundred topics on this but im goin to ask anyway.

is it a good grip of the hands/body that makes a good lead?
is it good strength of the leader?
do followers need to have more resistance?

any help please?

All of the above. This topic has been beaten to death. Here's the thread on good leading in general partner dancing: http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=10399.

Good leading in salsa context: http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=10415
There are several other threads on leading if you look around.

[Danoo]

ok ill have a dig through
i havnt been on for a while so i couldnt be bothered to look through this huge forum :oops: :lol:

and dancing is going great with the twins sagitta (still looking great) :lol: :lol:

[SDsalsaguy]

Welcome back Danoo! :D

[Sagitta]

ok.

http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=9904&start=0

[Sagitta]

and dancing is going great with the twins sagitta (still looking great) :lol: :lol: Gald to hear. Glad to hear that. :D :cheers:

[Danoo]

and dancing is going great with the twins sagitta (still looking great) :lol: :lol: Gald to hear. Glad to hear that. :D :cheers:
gald? :lol: :P

[Sagitta]

and dancing is going great with the twins sagitta (still looking great) :lol: :lol: Glad to hear. Glad to hear that. :D :cheers:
gald? :lol: :P

:doh: Made the correction. :)

[blossomingsalsadancer]

I was out dancing with a couple of girl friends last night and throughout the night, my friends and I will give reviews to each other of our partners ("He's a great dancer--make sure you dance with him" or "He nearly yanked my arm out of the socket--be careful if he asks you to dance" etc.). Thoughout the night, after dancing with leads that my friends previously danced with, I find myself disagreeing with their assessment half the time (I found some leads one was gushing about to be too rough and found that the some leads they were complaining about to be just right).

At the end of the night, I found myself asking the same question in this thread--what makes a good lead? I read the previous threads someone posted above and agreed with a lot of good points that have already been made. This previous post however struck a chord with me:

the best leaders do not insist that followers understand his intent - they find the way of expressing their intent in the way that works best for that particular partner - being as clear, unambiguous & gentle as possible. that way if they get a follower that insists that the lead be communicated in a certain way or to dance strictly to a syllabus, they can accomodate that.

I had a mini-epiphany last night along these lines. What makes a good lead (or good anything) is subjective--it's a judgment call by whoever is expressing the opinion {this is not the epiphany}. The epiphany is that a good leader is one who adjusts to the preferences and response style of each individual follower. Much has been said about leaders dancing to the "level" of the follower which is something that I agree with. However, many people seem to interpret this to simply mean that if you're dancing with a beginner, do simpler moves and save the complex moves for intermediate and advance dancers. I think, however, that leads need to dance to the response style of their followers as well. For example, some women will go spinning at a flick of a finger while other women will need some sort of push of varying force to know when to spin. A good lead should therefore quickly determine the right balance of pressure and gentleness he needs to effectively lead the woman he's dancing with.

Leads should also take into the account the physical build of the woman. I can't count the number of times I've had my head almost knocked off because the man I was dancing with didn't raise his arm high enough to accomodate my height (and I'm an average 5'7") during a turn. Also, one lead who I found to be "just right" last night was a lead that my friend found "too rough" because he was leading her who was 5'2" and very petite with the same strength he was leading me. I can go on and on with examples but I think you get the idea.

The best leads, IMHO, are the ones that get a feel for the skill, preference and response style of the follower and adjusts accordingly. If he does this he will get the same rave reviews from all followers regardless of their preference and skill level! :)

[Danoo]

IMO the best followers are the one's that have a average amount of tension in their arms, they are much more easy to lead
but i really struggle with the followers that have no tension at all, i mean how do you deal with that?

thanks for you posts :D

[HF]

IMO the best followers are the one's that have a average amount of tension in their arms, they are much more easy to lead


Coming from Latin I really appreciated some tension in the arm. But this changed the more I dance salsa.

Cuban girls are told that their arms should be a smooth as a silk. And even in Cross-Body-Style one can learn to dance with very low tension -more impact than power.

Also Frankie Martinez mentioned in a workshop that salsa is more about pulling than pushing. Pulling also needs tension, but much less than pushing.

[fascination]

no tension at all is a problem for lead or follow and the one I dislike the most.....while I don't like to be thrown around hither and yon, I much prefer it to never knowing what the heck is going on and having to guess b/c I am dancing with gauze or air or something other than any kind of force that tells me what is happening.....know wonderful men who I hate to dance with for this reason :cry:

[Danish Guy]

The best leads, IMHO, are the ones that get a feel for the skill, preference and response style of the follower and adjusts accordingly. If he does this he will get the same rave reviews from all followers regardless of their preference and skill level! :)

:notworth:

Yes, being able to tune into your partner.

The good connection is sometimes easier when the lady also tune into the partner she is dancing with. (Or maybe relaxing after the last dance, to let me get the smooth connection I prefer)

[MacMoto]

IMO the best followers are the one's that have a average amount of tension in their arms, they are much more easy to lead
My current thinking is that the best followers are the one's that have the right amount of tension at the right time and in the right part of their arms. In other words, the best followers can give you tension when and where you need it but can also relax their arms when you are trying to manoeuvre their arms around (or whatever).

[Sabor]

what makes a good lead? hmm tough one there.. umm.. breakfast?

[Sagitta]

what makes a good lead? hmm tough one there.. umm.. breakfast? A satisfied stomach is definitely better then a starving one. :wink:

[Danish Guy]

IMO the best followers are the one's that have a average amount of tension in their arms, they are much more easy to lead
My current thinking is that the best followers are the one's that have the right amount of tension at the right time and in the right part of their arms. In other words, the best followers can give you tension when and where you need it but can also relax their arms when you are trying to manoeuvre their arms around (or whatever).

Yes :notworth:

When I lead her hand forward, it’s not her hand I want to move. Neither her arm. It’s her body. So if I lead her hand forward, I expect her body to follow. If only her arm follow, by being stretched out, then I have to go to plan B. But if I lay her hands over her head, the tension needed is different, but I still need to be in contact with her body through the hand to hand connection.

It’s great, when it ‘s just feels like the most natural ting 8)

[africana]

it's amusing how these threads always goes back to some guy's wish list for follows (the "rules")

wonder when the title will become relevant

[lynn]

hmm, i guess in partner dancing, having a good follow is as important to having a good lead...

[alemana]

hah, good point.

i'm not responding bec i hate item duplication....

[africana]

hmm, i guess in partner dancing, having a good follow is as important to having a good lead... still the thread is about "good lead"

[MacMoto]

hmm, i guess in partner dancing, having a good follow is as important to having a good lead... still the thread is about "good lead"

Well the original questions were:
ok i know theres probably about a hundred topics on this but im goin to ask anyway.

is it a good grip of the hands/body that makes a good lead?
is it good strength of the leader?
do followers need to have more resistance?

any help please?
But danoo didn't get much response... here's your opportunity to give your wish list for leads, africana. :wink:

[Shooshoo]

A good leader is one who is confident and doesn't hesitate and makes the dance fun and effortless.

[tacad]

Ooh! How do we make it fun?

[Shooshoo]

Just enjoy the dance with whom ever you are dancing with. Live the moment. Try to make some connection with the person during the dance. If the follower doesn't get the move, just move on to the next move. Make it as smooth as possible. I also love it when a leader gets me in a move, e.g. a dip without me expecting it. But I've experienced this with some leaders and if it's done badly, then.....it's really bad.
These are the leaders I enjoy dancing with.

[tacad]

From your lips to my ears! A follower gave me very similar advice. My partners and I usually enjoy our dances very much.

[Danish Guy]

hmm, i guess in partner dancing, having a good follow is as important to having a good lead... still the thread is about "good lead"

OK, some more words, and not just :notworth: to the fine quotes.

Lead/follow is also a sort of communication. What makes a good conversation?

Both talking the same langue helps. But you can improvise something.
Talking about something of interest for both parts make it easier.
Being able to listen and respond is necessary, so isn’t a monologue.

So a good conversation with one person could be boring to another, and incomprehensible for a person not speaking the same langue.

So a good lead must be able to give what the lady feel is a good lead. That goes to whenever the lady can dance or not. Whatever styles the lady can dance. And whatever the lady got spaghetti arms, concrete arms, or something I prefer, making my lead options much easier. Is she a spinner, show-off, romantic, shiner, or keep it simple type. Does she appreciate a light gentle lead, or maybe the strong I’m in charge lead or anything in between. Does she move by her self, or do I have to carry her. So a good lead is only a good lead if my partner thinks it is. In every dance, this is my task as a leader, and my fault if it fails.

Timing is essential to make it work. But it is not done me alone, it’s two persons dancing together. The lady’s response to me, tells me what I have to play with. How to adjust. She can feed me energy and inspiration.

Then again, the lead is not enough. Eye contact, smiles, and making your partner for this dance feel she is dancing with you, and not just getting a ride in the roller coaster. Keep the lady safe, don’t do dangerous moves on the social floor. Protect her form chairs, poles, other dancers and people doing dangerous moves. Make her feel safe in your arms.

It’s about two people having fun on the dance floor. It’s about playing with the music and each other.

The girls rating the leads and getting different scores was very interesting. It’s not about a good lead. It’s about your partner feels it’s a good lead.

I know I got a good lead. A lot of girls told me that. I also know I have much to learn, and is constantly working to improve. Got some wonderful feedback last week.

I will always give the lady the best lead I can. If she fit my wish list it makes my lead a mush easier job, widening up the possibilities. If she think my lead is too strong, I might have danced with too many successive beginners, or her response to me tells me she ask for a strong lead.

Does this make any sense to the followers out there?

[MacMoto]

So a good lead must be able to give what the lady feel is a good lead.
:notworth: :notworth: :notworth:

[Danish Guy]

Well the original questions were:
ok i know theres probably about a hundred topics on this but im goin to ask anyway.

is it a good grip of the hands/body that makes a good lead?
is it good strength of the leader?
do followers need to have more resistance?

any help please?

But danoo didn't get much response... here's your opportunity to give your wish list for leads, africana. :wink:

OK, another leaders view :P


is it a good grip of the hands/body that makes a good lead?

Theres more, see my post above. But the right grip, for the right move is necessary. Be careful with your thumps. Most things can be lead by fingertip contact, if the lady allows you.


is it good strength of the leader?

Generally less strength is better. But it don’t work with all the ladies. Timing is gold. But always listen to her repose, and try to adjust.


do followers need to have more resistance?


Yes, some do, and no some need less resistance.
You properly saw my “wish list”

Then again we could talk about arms, following by moving her own bodyweight, dancing really close, or accepting a dinner invitation .:P


but i really struggle with the followers that have no tension at all, i mean how do you deal with that?

Difficult/challenging! But here is some hints.
Take it easy and get the basic to work. Lead her by the backside, the shoulders. The hips and stomach is a possibility too, but more difficult to get working, as she often will respond very different then you expected. Use your entire 911 moves to keep dancing, working with what response you got.
With the arms, make everything larger. A big halo if you want her to turn. Lead the move before you normally would, to compensate for the delay there is before she reacts. And keep it simple. If the situation is right, tel her you can better feel her if she gives you a little resistance with her arms.
The last can sometimes not only make this dance mush more fun, but also save her night, when she dance with other guys. Some girls don’t know better. Too much dancing alone, and if they dance with a guy, they have to turn themselves if anything have to happen.

[Sabor]

three words: lime green socksies

'nuff said

[africana]

So a good lead must be able to give what the lady feel is a good lead.
:notworth: :notworth: :notworth: I concur :D

by the way, I don't like giving wishlists bcause I feel everyone must arrive at their individual way by trial, by error, and by fire ;)

[Danoo]

hmm, i guess in partner dancing, having a good follow is as important to having a good lead... still the thread is about "good lead"

OK, some more words, and not just :notworth: to the fine quotes.

Lead/follow is also a sort of communication. What makes a good conversation?

Both talking the same langue helps. But you can improvise something.
Talking about something of interest for both parts make it easier.
Being able to listen and respond is necessary, so isn’t a monologue.

So a good conversation with one person could be boring to another, and incomprehensible for a person not speaking the same langue.

So a good lead must be able to give what the lady feel is a good lead. That goes to whenever the lady can dance or not. Whatever styles the lady can dance. And whatever the lady got spaghetti arms, concrete arms, or something I prefer, making my lead options much easier. Is she a spinner, show-off, romantic, shiner, or keep it simple type. Does she appreciate a light gentle lead, or maybe the strong I’m in charge lead or anything in between. Does she move by her self, or do I have to carry her. So a good lead is only a good lead if my partner thinks it is. In every dance, this is my task as a leader, and my fault if it fails.

Timing is essential to make it work. But it is not done me alone, it’s two persons dancing together. The lady’s response to me, tells me what I have to play with. How to adjust. She can feed me energy and inspiration.

Then again, the lead is not enough. Eye contact, smiles, and making your partner for this dance feel she is dancing with you, and not just getting a ride in the roller coaster. Keep the lady safe, don’t do dangerous moves on the social floor. Protect her form chairs, poles, other dancers and people doing dangerous moves. Make her feel safe in your arms.

It’s about two people having fun on the dance floor. It’s about playing with the music and each other.

The girls rating the leads and getting different scores was very interesting. It’s not about a good lead. It’s about your partner feels it’s a good lead.

I know I got a good lead. A lot of girls told me that. I also know I have much to learn, and is constantly working to improve. Got some wonderful feedback last week.

I will always give the lady the best lead I can. If she fit my wish list it makes my lead a mush easier job, widening up the possibilities. If she think my lead is too strong, I might have danced with too many successive beginners, or her response to me tells me she ask for a strong lead.

Does this make any sense to the followers out there?

:notworth: :notworth: :notworth: :notworth:

thank you so much
ill put the help to the test on monday :lol: :lol: