Pet hates, regular challenges, awkward situations & prob

[Claire_Brummell]

Hey

THIS IS A QUESTION FOR SALSER@S OF ALL LEVELS - FROM ALL AREAS OF THE WORLD!!!

Having danced for some years now, I know that there are several challenges that salser@s face and repeated problems that come up from the point of view of the lead and from the point of view of the follow, be they to do with people:

- not knowing the best hand holds
- not knowing how to dip correctly
- dipping people who have never done it before
- dipping in an area where there is not enough space
- not identifying and 'feeling' the mood of the music and dancing appropriately
- people pulling you too close and being 'sleazy'
- non-salser@s dragging you onto the floor just to 'bump and grind'
- treading on toes
- not giving enough tension
- giving too much tension
- struggling with spins
- not smiling
- not counting
- not knowing where to look
- looking in the 'wrong places'
- followers not allowing the lead to lead
- leads not leading clearly enough
- leads blaming the followers for moves not done well enough
- having their arms yanked
- leading above the follower's level
- forcing leads
- trying to make up time and hurting people as a result
- follows moving hands when leads have placed them for a later pick up
- follows leaning on the leads
- not knowing how to shine / style
- taking massive steps
- excessive sweating without bringing a change of clothes / de-oderant
- follows backleading / anticipating
- not adjusting to the height of your partner etc. etc.

....the list goes on and on....

I would like to know from you guys - what are the common / repeated challenges you face, what are you repeated complaining about to your salser@ friends, what do you wish didn't happen, what do you wish you had a technique to deal with / know what to say to / have a way out of, what regular problems to you face on and off the salsa dance floor.

We all have them and we all face them on a regular basis - what are your salsa pet hates / problems?

I want you to be as blatant and brutally honest as possible - we all face these - it would be nice to know what everyone else deals with and maybe share ideas on how to deal with them... :D

[Medira]

TIMING!!!

Listen to the beat, hear it within the music, be aware of it. Dancing off-time grates on my nerves more than that entire list you put together combined.

Ideas on how to overcome it will have to come later because I have a meeting to run to.

[Claire_Brummell]

No worries - thanks for your input! :D

[chook]

Post Edited.

[kdogg]

I could get better at spins and shines, among others. My room is carpeted so it's hard to practice spins. I know that there is no way to get better but practice and get some tips from good dancers. My lead used to be pretty gentle (that's part of my nature) but I've gotten better at leading more strongly. My salsa dancing used to be more about doing a lot of spins, and fancy combinations; but now it's more about feeling the music and letting it take over your soul. One time I was dancing with an older Cuban lady who threatened me that she'll stop dancing with me if I spin her; it was a big challenge for me. I got a couple of warnings, but I did pretty good. She was so immersed in the music that her every move spilled out passion in her; my pride as a youth took to its heel, and I realized I was dancing with a true salsa dancer. I can't say that I felt the music same as she did at that time, but now I can understand how feeling the music can influence your dancing.

[Claire_Brummell]

Salsa dance is for fun, so who cares about the minor things that annoy us. If someone makes a mistake, just smile and move on. The connection you have with your partner is more important than these little annoyances.

Absolutely and people taking it too seriously is one of those pet hates - the reason I'm asking this question is not to b*tch or moan, but to find out what common problems people face so that when I'm teaching I can give pointers to my students. Thing is that quite often I find that teachers tell students how to do the moves themselves, but don't give enough tips on leading and following, and ways to deal with awkward situations on the dancefloor which I think is just as important to pass on to newbies as the actual steps themselves. I know many of these in order to pass onto them so I thought I'd open up to the floor and see what other people have had to deal with over the years and also offer advice to each other on how to deal with these things too :D

[cocodrilo]

Salsa dance is for fun, so who cares about the minor things that annoy us. If someone makes a mistake, just smile and move on. The connection you have with your partner is more important than these little annoyances.
This is a good attitude to have, obviously from someone who enjoys the dance. This is precisely how I go about approaching those who lack tension(when I lead my lady friends), men who have octopus arms or the bad breath. It's only one dance, so I always smile and try to have fun.

[elgrancombo]

Timing, timing, timing. If follows are more concerned with styling than keeping in time, that's a problem. If leads are more concerned with combinations than staying in time, that's a problem. Before one works on that other stuff, work on timing til that Tumbao is a part of you!

And also, TAKE SMALL STEPS.

[Claire_Brummell]

Timing, timing, timing. If follows are more concerned with styling than keeping in time, that's a problem. If leads are more concerned with combinations than staying in time, that's a problem. Before one works on that other stuff, work on timing til that Tumbao is a part of you!

And also, TAKE SMALL STEPS.

Thanks for your input :D

[Shooshoo]

I HATE it when a leader just gives me a LOOK :shock: , oh didn't understand the lead?!!

I'm just dancing and trying, so if I don't get it the first, maybe something's wrong with the lead, or maybe I'll get it next time.

I don't blame you for doing it wrong. JUST DANCE....

[dancin/dj]

Timing, timing, timing. If follows are more concerned with styling than keeping in time, that's a problem. If leads are more concerned with combinations than staying in time, that's a problem. Before one works on that other stuff, work on timing til that Tumbao is a part of you!

And also, TAKE SMALL STEPS. i agree timing is the most important of all,i dont enjoy dancin at all with people in any style dance who dont have the basic timing of salsa or fill in the blank.i've danced with women who can do all that fancy styling stuff(i like some of it for sure :D ) but it means squat if her timing and connection are like a drunk bumble bee :roll:

[genEus]

I HATE it when a leader just gives me a LOOK :shock: , oh didn't understand the lead?!!

I'm just dancing and trying, so if I don't get it the first, maybe something's wrong with the lead, or maybe I'll get it next time.

I don't blame you for doing it wrong. JUST DANCE....

Exactly at this point: if ever a girl says "oh, sorry" after something doesn't work out -- I'll just smile and say "ah, it's always the leader's fault ;)" -- I always get a smile out of them and it makes the dance more enjoyable. Why worry about whose fault it was?

Now, this is not what I do when I dance with my girlfriend. I'll give her the LOOK :shock:, which is not always pleasant but it's the only way we'll get better... 8)

ON the subject of things I hate - #1 is not hearing the music, but of course that's hard for some people. I'd be devastated if my gf, whom I dance with most, didn't hear it - and she doesn't exactly, she often mistakes 5 for 1 and 1 for 5, but at least she's close and when I take the lead she gets it. But, #2 is fixable - it's when people bob up and down. That annoys the heck out of me, and thankfully the majority of people don't do it, but some just bob up and down, up and down. I'm thinking "polka?" :? hehe

[Shooshoo]

I HATE it when a leader just gives me a LOOK :shock: , oh didn't understand the lead?!!

I'm just dancing and trying, so if I don't get it the first, maybe something's wrong with the lead, or maybe I'll get it next time.

I don't blame you for doing it wrong. JUST DANCE....

Exactly at this point: if ever a girl says "oh, sorry" after something doesn't work out -- I'll just smile and say "ah, it's always the leader's fault ;)" -- I always get a smile out of them and it makes the dance more enjoyable. Why worry about whose fault it was?

Now, this is not what I do when I dance with my girlfriend. I'll give her the LOOK :shock:, which is not always pleasant but it's the only way we'll get better... 8)

ON the subject of things I hate - #1 is not hearing the music, but of course that's hard for some people. I'd be devastated if my gf, whom I dance with most, didn't hear it - and she doesn't exactly, she often mistakes 5 for 1 and 1 for 5, but at least she's close and when I take the lead she gets it. But, #2 is fixable - it's when people bob up and down. That annoys the heck out of me, and thankfully the majority of people don't do it, but some just bob up and down, up and down. I'm thinking "polka?" :? hehe


Give your girlfriend a break. I usually get this LOOK :shock: from the people I know (strangers wouldn't dare I guess) and its funny, they usually tell me the same what you are saying, that they want to get it right and I should understand....BUT I still HATE it!

[genEus]

Give your girlfriend a break. I usually get this LOOK :shock: from the people I know (strangers wouldn't dare I guess) and its funny, they usually tell me the same what you are saying, that they want to get it right and I should understand....BUT I still HATE it!

Nah I won't give her a break! :lol: And I do pretty much dance only with the people I "know" because there aren't many salsa dancers here, period, and most of them are from my studio. But, I won't ever say anything to them even if I know them - I'm in no position to do so. I may say something like "ooh, watch me butcher this combination" - that way if it doesn't work out, I will always take the blame :) But, with my gf I'm not just dancing "for fun" per se, I really want us to be great, whatever that may mean to us, so neither of us is gettin' a "break" yet - we just started!! :P

[cocodrilo]

But, #2 is fixable - it's when people bob up and down. That annoys the heck out of me, and thankfully the majority of people don't do it, but some just bob up and down, up and down. I'm thinking "polka?" :? hehe
Yes, yes, this irritates me, too, but it can be corrected. I have some ladyfriends who I am teaching and one of them does this kind of Charleston. Drives me mad. I say don't BOUNCE, but I think it is the way she interprets my hip movements. DO NOT CHARLESTON!" :twisted: :lol:

[chook]

Post Edited.

[DancingMommy]

TIMING!!!

Listen to the beat, hear it within the music, be aware of it. Dancing off-time grates on my nerves more than that entire list you put together combined.

Ideas on how to overcome it will have to come later because I have a meeting to run to.

OMG so true!!!! I could care less WHAT beat you dance on (1, 2, 3.45721), just FIND the <censored> beat and STAY on it.....

[gte692h]

i wish more girls would be like my favorite follow:

she has a great spirit and sings along with the songs. she looks me in the eye when she dances, rather than look away or down to the floor all the time. and she is genuinely happy to just dance and be alive. and she has the ability to have a conversation with me while we dance, which is a plus.

yesterday, i found myself waiting by the side for her to finish so i could ask her to dance. i even refused a dance, so that i could be sure to catch her. that's been rare for me - but now i have one person on my 'must ask' list.

[cocodrilo]

Hey, what are octopus arms? LOL>>>

Moves where the arms are going over the head, under the arms and all over the place. I like a little of this but not too much of it. Sometimes it seems as if the guy is trying to play Twister with me.

[genEus]

Moves where the arms are going over the head, under the arms and all over the place. I like a little of this but not too much of it. Sometimes it seems as if the guy is trying to play Twister with me.
:headwall: Reminds me of some really bad cuban style dancers in my area...

[clave]

- not knowing the best hand holds
- not knowing how to dip correctly
- dipping people who have never done it before
- dipping in an area where there is not enough space
- not identifying and 'feeling' the mood of the music and dancing appropriately
...
etc. etc.

All these things used to annoy me a long time ago. Now I recognize them all as the unimportant little peeves that they are. My biggest problem with this dance nowadays is not being able to get my fix like I used to. This stuff's addictive like heroin. Behold the ultracool-looking but secretly seething mafioso preying on the few clave-superpower-imbued superfollows who can make the entire evening wortwhile... If only he could rid the club of the hordes of hopeless pretenders who keep hogging his precious catwoman..... Ohhh but for one dance with Her Majesty Edie the SalsaFreak, then he could die happy.....

Umm, got carried away there for a second. :)

Seriously, if you're teaching I wish you'd teach more girls how to hijack. Most experienced leads I know love to be surprised. After you've been dancing this stuff for a while it all becomes same old same old. The other day I danced with a girl who exuded this incredible energy. Her following was effortless, but quite often she'd completely twist her response into something mischievous that'd make all my intentions fall apart and I'd crack up laughing. On a couple of moves when my back would end up toward her she'd yank my shirt as if trying to pull it out of my pants, enough for me to think "what the !?" for a fraction of a second and completely lose track of where I was going with the move. I proposed marriage to her after the dance, but then her husband gave me a black eye. Who said life was fair.

[Claire_Brummell]

Thank you so much to everyone for your input - this is great and just what I was after...

Seriously, if you're teaching I wish you'd teach more girls how to hijack. Most experienced leads I know love to be surprised. After you've been dancing this stuff for a while it all becomes same old same old. The other day I danced with a girl who exuded this incredible energy. Her following was effortless, but quite often she'd completely twist her response into something mischievous that'd make all my intentions fall apart and I'd crack up laughing. On a couple of moves when my back would end up toward her she'd yank my shirt as if trying to pull it out of my pants, enough for me to think "what the !?" for a fraction of a second and completely lose track of where I was going with the move. I proposed marriage to her after the dance, but then her husband gave me a black eye. Who said life was fair.

Glad that you like this, I have a leader who I dance with regularly who has a habit of 'playing' and changing it up at the last minute - part leading one move and then switching, just to catch you out or asking for a hand then moving his hand away before you get there and pulling a face - I love this and I end up giving as good as I get which is great fun - BUT you have to pick your leads...some guys love this - some HATE it so you have to read the lead first - but I agree it can make it fun and different...however it only works if she does what's instinctive...if you taught it, all the guys would be expecting it - this is the sort of thing better passed on one-on one so all the guys aren't ready for it... :D

[yola]

Thank you so much to everyone for your input - this is great and just what I was after...

Seriously, if you're teaching I wish you'd teach more girls how to hijack. Most experienced leads I know love to be surprised. After you've been dancing this stuff for a while it all becomes same old same old. The other day I danced with a girl who exuded this incredible energy. Her following was effortless, but quite often she'd completely twist her response into something mischievous that'd make all my intentions fall apart and I'd crack up laughing. On a couple of moves when my back would end up toward her she'd yank my shirt as if trying to pull it out of my pants, enough for me to think "what the !?" for a fraction of a second and completely lose track of where I was going with the move. I proposed marriage to her after the dance, but then her husband gave me a black eye. Who said life was fair.

Glad that you like this, I have a leader who I dance with regularly who has a habit of 'playing' and changing it up at the last minute - part leading one move and then switching, just to catch you out or asking for a hand then moving his hand away before you get there and pulling a face - I love this and I end up giving as good as I get which is great fun - BUT you have to pick your leads...some guys love this - some HATE it so you have to read the lead first - but I agree it can make it fun and different...however it only works if she does what's instinctive...if you taught it, all the guys would be expecting it - this is the sort of thing better passed on one-on one so all the guys aren't ready for it... :D
Yep... trying to play with the guys.. some guys like it/love it; some hate it, coz it fools their moves. You need a guy who's sure enough of himself/his dancing; ánd you (the girl) need imecable timing.. still to be able to follow his lead.

[Claire_Brummell]

Yep... trying to play with the guys.. some guys like it/love it; some hate it, coz it fools their moves. You need a guy who's sure enough of himself/his dancing; ánd you (the girl) need imecable timing.. still to be able to follow his lead.

Absolutely - you need to know that if all goes pear-shaped that you can pick it up again at any point and catch up the move if necessary...otherwise it's a bit risky - there are only certain leads that I'll do it with and I have to know them very well...

[ash88]

Yep... trying to play with the guys.. some guys like it/love it; some hate it, coz it fools their moves. You need a guy who's sure enough of himself/his dancing; ánd you (the girl) need imecable timing.. still to be able to follow his lead.

Absolutely - you need to know that if all goes pear-shaped that you can pick it up again at any point and catch up the move if necessary...otherwise it's a bit risky - there are only certain leads that I'll do it with and I have to know them very well...

Some of my all-time favourite moments on the dance-floor have been when girls hijack me and i lose the beat because of me laughing so hard. I think the best ways to get ideas for doing that is just to watch lots of clips of people social dancing.

[Claire_Brummell]

That's the thing - hijacking is actually dead hard to teach, you just need to learn to take the little opportunities and play - it's kind of like styling, very boring and uninteresting if everyone does the same...what makes it good is people personalising it and doing it THEIR way - and like styling the best way to teach it is to give a couple of basics, and teach how to spot the opportunity and how to build it up gradually, with tiny things at first, so you get used to it and then leave it to them to embellish and find their own way... :D

[clave]

That's the thing - hijacking is actually dead hard to teach, you just need to learn to take the little opportunities and play - it's kind of like styling, very boring and uninteresting if everyone does the same...what makes it good is people personalising it and doing it THEIR way - and like styling the best way to teach it is to give a couple of basics, and teach how to spot the opportunity and how to build it up gradually, with tiny things at first, so you get used to it and then leave it to them to embellish and find their own way... :D
Amen! Go for it!!! Nobody teaches this. If you just point out the opportunity to hijack at certain counts during certain moves, and have them practice one or two simple tricks, I'm sure their imagination will run wild on the dance floor. Dancing instruction focuses on "you do THIS move THIS way", so we end up with a large excess of girls in the beginning classes and a large excess of guys in the advanced classes--girls run out of things to learn in class once they get the essentials of following. Then they go off and learn stying instead of learning how to play with what the guy dishes out. I'm not a good tango dancer but my beginner's impression is that in AT there's a lot more two-way communication going on on top of the standard lead/follow roles. That's what really good club salsa feels like.

[africana]

My biggest problem with this dance nowadays is not being able to get my fix like I used to. This stuff's addictive like heroin. Behold the ultracool-looking but secretly seething mafioso preying on the few clave-superpower-imbued superfollows who can make the entire evening wortwhile... If only he could rid the club of the hordes of hopeless pretenders who keep hogging his precious catwoman..... my sentiments ;) it's almost depressing those few weeks after attending a congress with lots of sublimely worthy dances to come back to the sparsity of reasonably good dancers in a sea of salser@s...I always have to work at savouring the simple basic pleasures like feeling the music otherwise one ends up looking like you have a bad or lofty attitude. I always work at forgetting just how good and challenging and stimulating dancing can be...

biggest pet peeve at these times: local dancers who think they are the $&!t expecting everyone to watch and applaud when I've seen better, been better, with better partners, ah well :? all the compliments and such don't even matter because there's not much challenge in that. one constantly needs growth, to be pushed or risk turning into those local dancers who thnk they are the $&!t
it would be nice to have one of those teleporters from star trek then I could leave and travel to salsa paradises more often ;)

[squirrel]

Timing... it is the most important to me...!

No matter the beat you choose... STICK TO IT! :)

[tacad]

The circular hand motion thingy in salsa when doing the basic. Blech!

[clave]

The circular hand motion thingy in salsa when doing the basic. Blech!
"Basic"? What's that?

:wink: :lol:

[azzey]

Partnership! Because without partnership regardless of level of the dancers there's no spice, no fun, no real connection..

Dancing is fun and it should be 50/50, even if the guy is better than the girl you dance to her level but when the girl is over-styling and dancing selfishly (same goes for the guy when he's move mad) the other partner is going to hate it.

Most of the elements of partnership are taught: Leading and following, timing, connection etc, but not the essential attitude and give and take which make it fun.