Yuval and Nathalie

[SwinginBoo]

So I've already said how great I think Yuval and Nathalie are. I've been thinking about possibly taking a private lesson/series of private lessons from them. I really want to work on my swivels, grind, syncopations, and overall musicality. They are, in my opinion, two of the best in the world for swing and the specific things that I want to learn. I'm trying to decide what to do. I'm thinking I might schedule one lesson to see how grueling of a trip it would be.

It would be a thrill of a lifetime to work with them, so that alone almost makes it worth it. Also, you can either attend alone or with a partner for the same price. So if my boyfriend would go it would be great. I'll have to discuss it further with him.

Their studio is in NYC and I live in West Hartford CT. So it would involve quite a hike. But if I commit to just one class it might not be too bad. I could decide after that if I wanted to do more. I think I am going to do at least one class.

Sorry about the random post. I just wanted to share my thoughts with those of you who would understand. It all goes back to my feelings following the ALHC. If I ever want to get to that level I have to put in the time and training. Up until this point, I've had no training from professional dancers. This would be so thrilling for me. Yup, I think I just might do it.:tongue:

[pygmalion]

Go for it, girl! One suggestion. Start small, so you can maintain the pace. Meaning, that is quite a hike. Why not try one class -- not one per week -- just one, to see if you like their teaching style, if you can handle the commute, etc. Then, if you like it, add another, or set up a regular schedule -- once a quarter, or once a month, or even once a week.

It looks like you already have a specific list of things you want to work on. That's good. These high-level coaches really want you to come prepared and not have them tell you what to work on, unless you're getting a routine critiqued.

Hmm. Bravo for you. :D I think you should go for it. Please keep me posted. :D

[SwinginBoo]

Yay, I just talked to Nathalie and I have a lesson scheduled for Nov. 22nd at 1pm. She also invited me to stay for a party afterwards. YAY, this is positively one of the best moments of my life. I'm like a little kid. :tongue:

[suek]

How exciting...hooray! I'm thrilled for you.

[SwinginBoo]

Ok, well I have been back for a few days but things have been so crazy that I haven't gotten a chance to post about my lesson on Saturday.

So as many of you know Bruce and I went to NYC last Saturday to have a private lesson with Nathalie and Yuval. Let me tell you that they both were very professional and just fantastic teachers. They were very very genuine which made me feel at ease pretty quickly. We actually sat for about a half hour before the lesson just talking about competitions and such, which is a whole 'nother story....

Ok so I went in there hoping to learn swivels and grinds (or as Nathalie calls them - switches). As it turns out we only got to the swivel part for me. But Bruce and I did work on our lindy connection and turns.

I guess I would say the whole experience was definitely positive, but also shattering. What do I mean by this? Well I will tell you. Ok, I've never taken any formal lessons and bruce has done a magnificent job teaching me. But I wanted to learn Nathalie's swivels and to do this 2 of the most major components of the way I dance have to change -- my pike and what I do on the 1 in the begining of a lindy pattern. I always stay sort of straight backed and come in on the 1. However, now I have to train myself to shift my hips backwards to create an almost sitting-like position. Sounds easy right? Maybe with some practice, but I have a tendency to straighten up as I come into the lindy turn, which is just a habit of the way I dance. Nathalie thinks it's from dancing WCS. I can see that since WCS is definitely more straight and smooth.

Ok, so we have the new piking position...now add to that the change on the 1. I've always stepped forward on 1. But in order to create those great swivels I need to hold back on the 1 - delaying coming in, which gives me more time to swivel, which makes for phenominal looking swivels. I practiced this a lot over the weekend with bruce and it's starting to come easier. It is also a hard habit to break.

Now for the fun part -- the SWIVELS!!! First of all, Nathalie can turn her hips so far each way I'm convinced she can spin her bottom half completely around. Second of all, she does this great stuff with her knees where she picks up her knees to create all these illusions that make her look like her lower body has a mind of it's own. It's the turning of the hips and the knees that I have to work on. (BTW do you see a pattern here? I need to work on EVERYTHING! Can you see now why my dancing world has been shattered? lol.)

Ok so for the hips, when you swivel left and right, the way you get that great effect is to imagine that each time you turn you are trying to show the leader your butt. Sounds funny, but it's true. That exaggerates the swivel which makes it look so incredibly good...on her anyways. Another way to exaggerate the swivels is by passing your leader parallel when coming out of a lindy turn. this means that when stepping 5 6 you are passing parallel facing the leader all the while looking at him dead in the face. This creates a kind of sexy look. That way you are already turned to the right for 7, allowing you to swivel on 7 & 8 : 1. That's 3 swivels for the price of one, lol...don't mind me I'm kind of silly today.

I guess what is hard about it is that I've never been too comfortable with my body, at least my lower half. So doing these exaggerated swivels makes me feel like I'm drawing attention to the lower half of my body which makes me uncomfortable. I know the whole point of it is to have people watch and go "wow"...so I'm slowly getting over that.

I am a little daunted by this challenge, but they said that this is what is going to take me from being an intermediate dancer to being an advanced dancer. I believe it, because I have not seen anyone around here with swivels like that, and that does impress me. I want these swivels more than anyone can imagine. It's like this yearning desire inside me that literally burns. SOunds crazy I know.

Well I think that's all I have to say for now, and if you made it this far through the post then I do thank you for reading. :D

[pygmalion]

We actually sat for about a half hour before the lesson just talking about competitions and such, which is a whole 'nother story.... I want to hear about the competition talk, when you get a chance. :D

I guess I would say the whole experience was definitely positive, but also shattering. To me, that means you had a good coaching session. Their job was to challenge you. Given that you've never had formal instruction, it sounds like you did a great job, just holding your own. Any thought about whether you're going to schedule more lessons? Pretty expensive, huh? And far away.

I am a little daunted by this challenge, but they said that this is what is going to take me from being an intermediate dancer to being an advanced dancer. I believe it, because I have not seen anyone around here with swivels like that, and that does impress me. I want these swivels more than anyone can imagine. It's like this yearning desire inside me that literally burns. SOunds crazy I know.
Nope. Sounds like a dedicated dancer to me.

Thanks for taking the time to post. You'll help somebody else who's wondering about getting coaching, but is afraid to ask, I bet. :D

[SDsalsaguy]

...if you made it this far through the post then I do thank you for reading. :D
Thanks for the update Boo. Oy yeah, and :uplaugh:

[Swing Kitten]

go Steph!

[SwinginBoo]

I guess I would say the whole experience was definitely positive, but also shattering. To me, that means you had a good coaching session. Their job was to challenge you. Given that you've never had formal instruction, it sounds like you did a great job, just holding your own. Any thought about whether you're going to schedule more lessons? Pretty expensive, huh? And far away.

I am definitely planning on scheduling more lessons. It really wasn't that expensive..$75 per hour for both leader and follower. So it's only like $30 a piece with round trip train fare that's about $56 for the whole thing. Still not too shabby. They asked me if I would come back for another lesson and seemed happy when I said yes, and I think it wasn't just because of the money. They offered for us to stay overnight at their studio if it was the only way we could come to their dance that night. They were really very nice people. I can't wait to go for another lesson...I just want to improve before I go back...practice practice practice. :D

[suek]

You remind me so much of myself! And you're so lucky to have a partner with whom you can learn and practice. I'd love to find one...

And how I wish I could see you move as you explain this stuff. I tried to move my body to your words and it was HARD.

I guess I would say the whole experience was definitely positive, but also shattering.

I so get this...I treated myself to a 2hour private with Nick Williams the other day...he's a really good balboa (and other swing dances) dancer from LA who was in town prepping for the Open. And when we started out I was feeling really good dancing with him...timing, connection felt really good to me; I could sense improvement from the last time I sucked it up and asked him to dance (terrified).

So there I am with a big grin on my face, digging not being scared, doing pretty good with the leads, and then guess what? He starts critiqueing the basic footwork and drilled and drilled me in stuff I thought I knew. Oh well.

Sheesh.

But I wanted to learn Nathalie's swivels and to do this 2 of the most major components of the way I dance have to change -- my pike and what I do on the 1 in the begining of a lindy pattern. I always stay sort of straight backed and come in on the 1. However, now I have to train myself to shift my hips backwards to create an almost sitting-like position. Sounds easy right? Maybe with some practice, but I have a tendency to straighten up as I come into the lindy turn, which is just a habit of the way I dance. Nathalie thinks it's from dancing WCS. I can see that since WCS is definitely more straight and smooth.

Ok, so we have the new piking position...now add to that the change on the 1. I've always stepped forward on 1. But in order to create those great swivels I need to hold back on the 1 - delaying coming in, which gives me more time to swivel, which makes for phenominal looking swivels. I practiced this a lot over the weekend with bruce and it's starting to come easier. It is also a hard habit to break.
This is the part I wish I could SEE you explain. I don't get it. To be truthful, I don't really understand piking.

Now for the fun part -- the SWIVELS!!! First of all, Nathalie can turn her hips so far each way I'm convinced she can spin her bottom half completely around. Second of all, she does this great stuff with her knees where she picks up her knees to create all these illusions that make her look like her lower body has a mind of it's own. It's the turning of the hips and the knees that I have to work on. (BTW do you see a pattern here? I need to work on EVERYTHING! Can you see now why my dancing world has been shattered? lol.)

Ok so for the hips, when you swivel left and right, the way you get that great effect is to imagine that each time you turn you are trying to show the leader your butt. Sounds funny, but it's true. That exaggerates the swivel which makes it look so incredibly good...on her anyways. Another way to exaggerate the swivels is by passing your leader parallel when coming out of a lindy turn.
Is the lindy turn you're talking about a swingout?
this means that when stepping 5 6 you are passing parallel facing the leader all the while looking at him dead in the face. This creates a kind of sexy look. That way you are already turned to the right for 7, allowing you to swivel on 7 & 8 : 1. That's 3 swivels for the price of one, lol...don't mind me I'm kind of silly today.
I totally get this...the swivels start on the 8 and go 8/1/2. But I have to keep my two small and not so far to the outside to counter my unfortunate habit of heading out to the leader's right instead of straight at the lead's center.

I guess what is hard about it is that I've never been too comfortable with my body, at least my lower half. So doing these exaggerated swivels makes me feel like I'm drawing attention to the lower half of my body which makes me uncomfortable. I know the whole point of it is to have people watch and go "wow"...so I'm slowly getting over that.
Something has happened since I started moving my hips in swivels and switches...I feel a great big loosening and more like the music's moving through me. Feels very juicy. And I'm sure no one will be surprised to hear that I'm being told to tone it down by my teachers...A tendency to overdo? Quelle surprise.

I am a little daunted by this challenge, but they said that this is what is going to take me from being an intermediate dancer to being an advanced dancer. I believe it, because I have not seen anyone around here with swivels like that, and that does impress me. I want these swivels more than anyone can imagine. It's like this yearning desire inside me that literally burns. SOunds crazy I know.
Oh yeah I completely understand. Thanks for writing it all and showing me I'm not the only one that thirsts for this stuff.

I too get daunted, and have a very hard time forgiving myself for an off night, for dances when I don't connect very well.I've never in my llife tried so hard, practiced so much, endured through so much frustration. I'm proud of myself for that, but that doesn't mean it's easy.

[SwinginBoo]

To be truthful, I don't really understand piking.

Piking, from what I gathered from her is a term for the way you hold your body while you dance. I was used to holding mine straigther. She said that i need to shift my hips backwards which causes my rear to be almost in a sitting position, my back to be leaning forward, my knees to be bent.

Is the lindy turn you're talking about a swingout?

One in the same. :D

[Swing Kitten]

Piking, from what I gathered from her is a term for the way you hold your body while you dance. I was used to holding mine straigther. She said that i need to shift my hips backwards which causes my rear to be almost in a sitting position, my back to be leaning forward, my knees to be bent.

Oh sort of like how Bruce has told me not to dance? :lol: ;) :D

[SwinginBoo]

Gee maybe that's where I got it from. :? But you know he has been the most wonderful teacher. I really am very lucky. :D

[pygmalion]

Yes, you are very lucky, to have built-in teacher. Probably a lot less expensive that way, too. :wink: But it never hurts to get some outside coaching, if only to give you a different perspective. I get the feeling that you're a very advanced dancer, which means you're at a level where you can choose how you're going to dance any given move. So this coaching is just giving y another option of how to dance things. There's nothing wrong with that. :)

[SwinginBoo]

Advanced dancer?? :oops: :D Wow thanks for the compliment. I don't quite think I'm there yet. I hope to be someday and soon! But unfortunately in this sort of instance it seems that instant gratification isn't going to work. I would say that my level is somewhere in the intermediate area. I can follow most leads even with more experienced leaders, as long as the leads are clear. I'm starting to play with the music and add my own touches as I feel them, now that I'm not concentrating on footwork and patterns. Well actually let me qualify that statement....that is how I felt BEFORE the lesson with Nathalie and Yuval. Now I feel more like a beginner than ever. But I know that I will get to the next level if I put in the time and effort to do so.

[pygmalion]

Feeling like a beginner? Dead giveaway that you're more advanced than you think. :D Good luck.

Jenn

[suek]

Advanced dancer?? :oops: :D Wow thanks for the compliment. I don't quite think I'm there yet. I hope to be someday and soon! But unfortunately in this sort of instance it seems that instant gratification isn't going to work. I would say that my level is somewhere in the intermediate area. I can follow most leads even with more experienced leaders, as long as the leads are clear. I'm starting to play with the music and add my own touches as I feel them, now that I'm not concentrating on footwork and patterns. Well actually let me qualify that statement....that is how I felt BEFORE the lesson with Nathalie and Yuval. Now I feel more like a beginner than ever. But I know that I will get to the next level if I put in the time and effort to do so.

I probably should move this reply to another thread...something called Private lessons with world-class dancers and how to survive the humiliation

I had a private with Kevin St Laurent yesterday (see KevinandCarla.com if you're not familiar with them). (Couldn't connect with Yuval to ask him, maybe when they come to California for a workshop I'll get another chance.)

I asked him to work on Connection and Balance. We never got past connection. He drilled me over and over (isn't it amazing how slow an hour goes by when you're getting this kind of input?) on:
• keeping frame (keep the shoulder down and back)...ten years of Pilates and I don't have this!
• coming straight forward when led forward (instead of arcing around my lead)
• powering forward, using the floor, while keeping the hand connection light
• going where led (sounds simple, right?)
• not anticipating...I lose opportunities to be led in cool stuff: stalls, sways, whatever, because I come forward before I'm asked

Ugh.

I was a wreck. By the time Damon and my friend Katie showed up a few hours later, I cried to them for an hour. Damon's words of encouragement: Now you know how it feels to be a dedicated dancer.

The good news: When I danced with Kevin later last night, I could feel moments of how cool it can be when more of these principles are in place.

So I have hope. Hand in hand with the discouragement.

[danceguy]

SueK and Swingin Boo,

I just wanted to say that I really enjoyed your posts...and I greatly admire the dedication that both of you have for Swing dancing! It's inspired me to the point that I want to take more Lindy lessons and not give up because of how I dislike getting dizzy...

Thank you again for sharing. :)

Respectfully,

SG

[pygmalion]

I probably should move this reply to another thread...something called Private lessons with world-class dancers and how to survive the humiliation


Sue,

Anything you post on this topic will be greatly appreciated. I have high level coaching on my list of goals for this year, and I bet a lot of other people do too. Thanks for all your informative posts. :D

Jenn

[SwinginBoo]

SueK and Swingin Boo,

I just wanted to say that I really enjoyed your posts...and I greatly admire the dedication that both of you have for Swing dancing! It's inspired me to the point that I want to take more Lindy lessons and not give up because of how I dislike getting dizzy...

Thank you again for sharing. :)

Respectfully,

SG

I'm glad the posts were helpful to you SG. I definitely encourage the lindy lessons. It really is a fantastic dance, and no worries -> you'll get over the dizziness thing. I promise :wink:

[SwinginBoo]

Nathalie and Yuval are offering a 3 hour workshop on styling and musicality for intermediate dancers in January for only $35. I'm thinking of going. Question though, am I intermediate? What constitutes that? I guess I assume I am, but like I said I'm feeling more like a beginner than ever. :?

[Sagitta]

If you call yorself a beginner what am I?!! :? My guess is that the "intermediate" label is so that people know what the basic moves are, have a sense of the rhythmn... This would allow the workshop to focus on making those moves look better, and doing moves because of what the music dictates (musicality), rather then doing moves for the sake of doing moves. Go for it!! :)

[Swing Kitten]

take the workshop Boo! There's no two ways about it!

[suek]

Nathalie and Yuval are offering a 3 hour workshop on styling and musicality for intermediate dancers in January for only $35. I'm thinking of going. Question though, am I intermediate? What constitutes that? I guess I assume I am, but like I said I'm feeling more like a beginner than ever. :?

it's challenging isn't it? the way I deal with this: I look for a detailed descrption of the levels in the workshop flyer/website/etc. If there is no description, I will email the teachers/presenters and describe my experience and ask permission to attend. Sometimes I give teacher references.

not everyone defines intermediate the same way. I find it humbling, if not a little humiliating as well, to go through this process. at the same time, I support structuring classes and workshops so that the teachers can achieve their goals.

[SwinginBoo]

I probably will end up calling Nathalie and ask her if I would qualify to attend the workshop. Hopefully she will say yes so that my whole core of beliefs aren't completely shattered.

[SwinginBoo]

I just made the call and will be able to register for the workshop. This is good news. It will be like a birthday present to myself since my birthday falls the day before. I'm looking forward to it...now if I could only find some time to practice my swivels! I don't want to go back there without improvement. I feel like it's coming along ssslllooowwwlllyyy, but still I feel the difference. I'm getting used to coming in on 2 and changing my pike. I'm trying to work on isolating the hips from the upper body. Small steps...

[Sagitta]

That's great news SwinginBoo!! :) I'm so glad for you!!! :D

[SDsalsaguy]

Enjoy Boo! And happy yet to be birthday too! :D

[suek]

I just made the call and will be able to register for the workshop. This is good news. You made the call; I know how hard that can be. Pat yourself on the back for that one.
I'm looking forward to it...now if I could only find some time to practice my swivels! I don't want to go back there without improvement.If I waited for improvement (to my eyes) I would never be able to go back to privates and workshops. I have learned (painfully, I admit) that repetition is part of this process. I'm hearing stuff now that I heard in the beginning. The difference: I understand more now and so I can hear it on a deeper level. DNice and my other repeat teachers aren't always telling me something new--and my notes in my dance journal prove that out--but my place on my learning curve keeps changing and therefore I get more out of the same input as time goes by.
I feel like it's coming along ssslllooowwwlllyyy, but still I feel the difference. I'm getting used to coming in on 2 and changing my pike. I'm trying to work on isolating the hips from the upper body. Small steps...See? You do see it. Now if we could forgive ourselves for what we don't get and celebrate the small steps. Because I think that this is how we're building our foundation as really good dancers. One little step at a time.

Blessings,

Sue

[SwinginBoo]

Thanks so much Sue for your confidence. Your words really helped put things in perspective. :D

[pygmalion]

Ha! I bet you thought this was forgotten. Are you still taking lessons with them, SwinginBoo? How's the commute (especially with the ghastly weather :cry: ).

Any new observations?

[SwinginBoo]

Thanks for asking Jenn. Yes I did think this thread was dead, but you're always on top of things. :wink:

Last month I went and took the styling and musicality workshop for intermediate lindy hoppers. It was kind of a disappointment. I say this because I expected the class to be full of people who already knew basics and were ready to work on syncopations and the like. However, while most could complete a basic lindy turn, they could not do it very well. So we spent a bit over 2 hours working on basics. And don't get me wrong basics are great, but when I have traveled 2 1/2 hours to get there and have a 2 1/2 hour commute back home I was expecting the class to be different. I work on my basics all the time so I didn't really want a whole class on it, you know? I'm not criticizing because I know that in order to get to styling you have to have good basics. What I am upset about is that the class was listed specifically for intermediate dancers and by my standard an intermediate dancer is one who can do patterns fairly well but is always improving on them.

But it's always a learning experience and it was good to practice my basics. So anyhow, we're going back this month to take a 3 hour balboa workshop followed by a 2 hour private. I think this will be a wonderful trip. As far as the Bal, I can dance very basic balboa. And even that I would like to get specific instruction on the basics, so I know that class will be worth it. And the 2 hour private will be awesome. It will be an expensive day, but at least I'll get 5 hours of great fun and wonderful learning experiences.

So to answer your question about the commute. It's not too bad. One hour drive to the train station, 98 minutes on the train, and whatever subways I need to take. (which I'm getting better at doing). It's kind of exciting. Like a little field trip. I'm looking forward to it. :D

[pygmalion]

Glad to hear you're still hanging in there, SwinginBoo. I was hoping you would.


Yeah. Workshops are iffy. A lot of times the teachers adapt content to the people who actually show up. The fault is with the beginner dancers who signed up for an intermediate workshop. *shrug* That's what people do.

Keep us posted on how your balboa workshop and private lesson go. good luck. :D

[SwinginBoo]

Thanks. I will do. :D

[pygmalion]

Hey. Talk about coincidence. There's a great interview and photos of them in the latest issue of 5678 magazine. I just saw it on the newstand today. Check it out. :wink: 8)

[SwinginBoo]

Thanks Jenn. I've never heard of 5678 magazine. Where do you get it?

[SDsalsaguy]

Thanks Jenn. I've never heard of 5678 magazine. Where do you get it?
At the store! :tongue:

(Sorry Boo, I couldn't help myself! :oops:)

[pygmalion]

What a smart aleck!

I found it at Barnes and Noble and at Books a Million. Both have extensive magazine selections.

5678 bills itself as "The Magazine of Social Dance." I think that's a bit of an overstatement, since the magazine seems to focus mainly on swing, -- the non-ballroom version -- and a little country on the side. This issue talked about Lindy, and had a write-up on Chicago Steppin, and step lists for a bunch of line dances. Most of the advertising is also for swing events -- USWDC sanctioned events. Anyway, if you're a swing person, it's probably worth a look. 5678 is published six times a year, and is available by mail-order subscription at a slight discount.

[SDsalsaguy]

What a smart aleck!

Who? Me??? :wink:

[suek]

I found it at Barnes and Noble and at Books a Million. Both have extensive magazine selections.I found it online...www.5-6-7-8.com Looks like they post many of the articles as pdfs.

[pygmalion]

The print magazine is actually not the best quality I've ever seen, in terms of paper quality and graphics. But there's lots of info in there, so what the heck.

[pygmalion]

Hmm. I couldn't find the Yuval and Nathalie article on the 5-6-7-8 web page. Maybe it hasn't been uploaded yet? So, for the record, the print magazine is the Winter 2004 issue, and it was just up on the newstand one day this week, so it's the latest copy.

[Swing Kitten]

What a smart aleck!

Who? Me??? :wink:

Well she was right about aleck part anyway :P

I've never heard of this magazine. Boo, if you get a copy may I take a peek?! :D pretty please!

[SwinginBoo]

Sure kitten anything for you! :wink:

[Swing Kitten]

Geeee! :D

[SwinginBoo]

Yes, the topic has been revived again! :P

I just thought I post a link to their website:

www.hopswingjump.com

They have a video of their new routine that they have been performing this past year at various competitions. It's really fantastic.

[Swing Kitten]

Nice to see you posting Boo! Have you taken another lesson from them? or do you plan to soon?

[SwinginBoo]

Well they're pretty busy now with traveling and teaching so they aren't holding any more lessons until September. But that's ok. I still need to work on the stuff I got from my last private so it all works out in the end.