Ballroom Dance > 10 Commandments of Bobbie Irvine

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by DanceMentor, Oct 20, 2013.

  1. DanceMentor

    DanceMentor Administrator

    Still relevant today?

  2. hereKittyKitty

    hereKittyKitty Administrator Staff Member

    No offense but, it sounds like the year it was written:rolleyes:
  3. vit

    vit Active Member

    Yeah, most of it seems to be lost in competitive dancing of today.
  4. ajiboyet

    ajiboyet Well-Known Member

    It sounds like the year it was written, full stop. I think it's unrealistic for anyone to expect things to be the same between Bobbie Irvine's time and now. She trained Marcus Hilton, for goodness sake! Things are not even the same between HIS time and now.
    Sania likes this.
  5. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    To have tone but not to be tense.

    I wonder if people now a days know the difference.
  6. hereKittyKitty

    hereKittyKitty Administrator Staff Member

    I understand that. However I was responding to the question, "still relevant?" Some yes, some no.
  7. dlliba10

    dlliba10 Well-Known Member

    Based on my lessons, I certainly don't.

    Those tenets seem evenly split between notions that have changed and things that will always hold true. The passive connotations of some of these ("to follow, not to lead," "to be seen, not felt") aside from being patently antiquated seem counterintuitive -- I want to feel where my follower is, and I'm not just dragging her along for a ride -- she's responding to the suggestions I make with my frame and my center of gravity. Other things seem perfectly fine and indeed advisable: to be active and not activated, to move and not to move away.
  8. Mengu

    Mengu Well-Known Member

    It is not that different than what I am being taught today. I think some of them have changed a little, but as a student of dance, I feel most of the ideas are still relevant. The second one is kind of lost on me, and the third one I would question these days, but the rest all have merit in at least some examination, and expanding.
  9. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    seems a bit in confict with

    This is an intesting one, because I think it is in the eye of the beholder.

    s2k, ajiboyet, vit and 1 other person like this.
  10. Mengu

    Mengu Well-Known Member

    I don't think the implication of "to follow, not to lead" is "to be passive." It is simply the task of determining what will be danced. Just because your routine has a double reverse turn next, doesn't mean the lady should just dive into it, because the lead perhaps sees a better opportunity for an open telemark to extend a line. The advice is not counterintuitive, perhaps it is a bit trivial. Later on she talks about activity, so that's covered elsewhere.

    "to be seen, not felt" is the one I don't really get, I'm not sure what the thought is behind that one.
  11. Mengu

    Mengu Well-Known Member

    I was thinking the same thing. Some students need the opposite advice. But someone with dance background may be more inclined to show off, which can create a disconnect from their partner, and perhaps the advice is sound, to reign in this tendency.
  12. cornutt

    cornutt Well-Known Member

    Steve Pastor, I noticed that too. Actually, I'm not at all sure what she meant by "to be seen and not felt".
  13. TwoRightFeet

    TwoRightFeet Active Member

    Sounds like an apt description for a porcupine. I'm not quite sure how that relates to dance though. Maybe if your movement is so visually unappealing that the audience feels like they're being stabbed, it's probably not a good thing.
  14. nikkitta

    nikkitta Well-Known Member

    "to be seen and not felt" -- the first interpretation that came to mind is to be light on your feet so it doesn't feel like a thundering herd when you pass the judges.
    Dr Dance likes this.
  15. ajiboyet

    ajiboyet Well-Known Member

    For the record, I think some things WILL always be the same across generations, at least among the top quality dancers. But some things have to go.
  16. Lyra

    Lyra Active Member

    It feels a bit contrived, but then such lists always do! You get the feeling some things are in there just to make the number up to ten. Having said that, I think that the emphasis has changed in some areas, and some things we wouldn't describe the same way these days. It does all sound a bit passive, although I'm not at all sure that's what she meant. I don't think that the underlying principles have changed though.
  17. ballroomdancertoo

    ballroomdancertoo Well-Known Member

    I agree with lyra, nothing changes underneath it all. only the outsides changes. music, musicality, expressions, etc all change but the basics never change, imho.
  18. vit

    vit Active Member

    Yeah, gravity is pretty much the same, that's probably the only basic thing that didn't change :)
  19. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    Ya know, how the hell would she know what shes talking about, "she " and Bill afterall ,only won 10 world championships .

    And , for those in dis-agreemant, please give me the alternatives, to those that your statements challenge ( And, I mean a clear and concise alternative that, has technical merit )
    DerekWeb likes this.
  20. vit

    vit Active Member

    I certainly agree with above 'commandments', but people running competitive dancing world doesn't seem to agree with them, judging by what I see on the (WDSF) competitions ...

    For instance, 2000+ EUR dress for the lady is the norm these days. Is this something obeying "to be seen and not show off" commandment ?

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