General Dance Discussion > 2010 Winter Olymipcs Figure Skating... Ice Dancing, Pairs... etc...

Discussion in 'General Dance Discussion' started by Larinda McRaven, Feb 14, 2010.

  1. dancelvr

    dancelvr Well-Known Member


    The compulsory dance is my favorite part of ice dance competition. It really allows a comparison between pairs on an even playing field. None of that pesky choreography to get in the way. :rolleyes: :-D
     
  2. wooh

    wooh Well-Known Member

    The Russian couple was amazing. One would think they'd have to fall on their behinds, two or three times, for anyone to beat them.
     
  3. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    agree
     
  4. RickRS

    RickRS Member

    It did get a little monotonous for me. Still great to watch.

    Don't know if its the same today, but I remember seeing compulsory figure skating a few Olympic ago. The ladies were attempting to carve out perfect figure eights in the ice, traveling backwards at about 1/2 mph. Exciting tv, NOT!

    Original Dance skates today! Unfortunately for our ballroom-ers, required theme is "Folk/Country Dance". ;) Interested to see what the teams do with this. List of the dances here.
     
  5. dancelvr

    dancelvr Well-Known Member

    The compulsory figures were eliminated from skating YEARS ago. I have a very vague memory of Peggy Fleming doing some figures at her Olympics. Not exactly gripping television. :)

    Folk/Country Dance? *sigh* Ah well. I'm sure the skaters will be able to do some interesting things with that.
     
  6. danceronice

    danceronice Well-Known Member

    Fix is in. Domnina/Shabalin shouldn't be within ten points of Virtue/Moir and Davis/White, let alone in third. Even Belbin/Agosto should probably be ahead of them as their footwork's vastly superior. No surprise, considering Shabalin's knee's barely functioning, but still. But if they don't get gifted a medal then the Russian federation will scream bloody murder. They'll probably still throw a temper tantrum if (when, I hope) they don't win, but if they leave without ANY hardware, little as they deserve it?

    And it was a flat-out CRIME their racist minstrel show got more points than the Italian couple's tarantella. The speed and power isn't even comparable. Then again, what you can expect when one of the judges is the wife of the head of the Russian federation? (It's only "anonymous" in that they don't print a list. Plenty of people know who the panel is.) And they're desperate, because a past-his-prime Plushenko and a dance team with bad knees is ALL they've got. K/N, Russia 2, apparently can't politik well, so they're out. Russia has no singles skaters any more to speak of, and the only pairs team with a future is Kavaguti/Smirnov and their Olympics will be Sochi. (They used to be total crap, too, "pair skater with a practice dummy", but I saw some of that old Moskvina magic starting to work in their LP. Four years, maybe....I pray for Tamara's health, her teams are so much nicer than the Moscow pairs.) They are DESPERATE for a medal in ice dance--I just hope that V/M and D/W can hold them off, and if B/A can come from behind to snag bronze I'll be over the moon.
     
  7. Zhena

    Zhena Well-Known Member

    I was really interested to see whether any of the couples would be able to incorporate distinctive movements from the source folk dances in their routines. I was expecting something like when ballet choreographers use folk as inspiration (in other words, I didn't really expect much).

    I won't really comment about the "Country" numbers ( ... yeeee hawww!) or the Can Can (a folk dance??!!??) or the Russian's "aboriginal" routine (gag).

    I wasn't able to detect anything special except possibly in the Indian routine ... some of those moves are truly distinctive but I don't know enough about the form to judge whether they did them well. I'm not terribly familiar with Italian dance, but the routine looked like the ballet-Italian I've seen ... nice. There's not much the Israeli couple could have drawn from ... Israeli folk dance is pretty much choreographed in the first place (noting that Israeli dance is distinct from the various folk dances of the places Jewish people have lived over the centuries). The only routine out of the ordinary was the American's "Moldavan" routine. I didn't see much specific "folk" movement, but I have to give them credit for their costumes. The influences were definitely recognizable ... they didn't tone it down as much as might be expected ... impressive.

    Did I miss anyone?
     
  8. New in NY

    New in NY New Member

    Can't tell you; I had to turn if OFF. Hoping for better things later this week with the ice dancers.

    BTW, has anyone else noticed how many of our U.S. gold athletes have no idea what to do when the flag is raised and the anthem is played?
     
  9. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    huh. missed the racist minstrel show. not sure i'm following your heat against the russians, DOI... they looked great during compulsories.

    do you have a personal bias by any chance? would be interesting to hear.

    personally, i simply do not understand all the PC hullabaloo having to do with the various dances & costumes. whatever happened to respecting artistic license? these aren't satires... they're simply dancers absorbing various cultural influences into their own personal expression. AKA... "we do it all the time in ballroom"
     
  10. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    oh... the "minstrel" show was the "aboroginal" routine? crikey... people so need to lighten up.
     
  11. Ithink

    Ithink Active Member

    Sam, I totally agree! There was nothing sub-par about the Russian pair and the whole costume thing is ridiculous!

    And I'd like to be so "past my prime" as to be able to easily land a clean quad-triple jump combination... The man is 27 years old, for god's sake!! If they are going to change the scoring system to place all the emphasis on jumps, then they should reward the superior jumping (never mind that I think the aforementioned emphasis is retarded and wrong). The Russians are only arguing for what the skating federation seems to be stressing these days with their assinine decisions to encourage the skaters pack the program with so many jumps/stupid human tricks that they seem to have forgotten that they are actually skating to music...
     
  12. RickRS

    RickRS Member

    LOL, sure you can comment. Any one that actually dances those "folk" dances likely blench at the sight of what the ice dancers did with their "interpretation".

    As to the aboriginal rountine, only thing missing was a bone in their nose. At one point the guy was leading the girl by her hair/"topknot". :rolleyes: "Minstrel show" is a little strong, but I see the point; the cleaned up dance still seem to be demeaning.

    There was some good skating, so regardless of last night, high hopes that the "free skate" will be entertaining tonight.
     
  13. CANI

    CANI Active Member

    /OT
    Why? I haven't seen the routine, but isn't that the beauty of a forum that everyone gets to write their own opinion? I fully respect if you have a different view from another poster, but why do other posters need to change -- "lighten up" -- because they don't agree with your viewpoint?

    Let's face it, we all have the 'things' that we react to. I know I find jokes about men beating their wives deeply offensive -- simply because it isn't how I would want to be treated -- and yet I had a friend in college, who, in his culture, it was the norm for his father to slap his mother...and such jokes weren't offensive to him. We all have our things that other people think we take too seriously, I guess.
    /BOT
     
  14. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    CANI, it wasn't directed to DF... it was directed to a very large media hullabaloo hyping up costumes & routines and calling them racist.
     
  15. wooh

    wooh Well-Known Member

    I'm not very familiar with the Australian aboriginal people, but from what I've heard, I kind of feel like it's the equivalent of a white woman singing an "old negro spiritual" (a la Bringing Down the House with Steve Martin and Queen Latifah.) There are some old wounds it's difficult to lighten up about. (Although ironically, it's pretty funny in the movie.)

    Edited to add video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oC18tioP6PY
     
  16. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    whatever the collective wounds of a community and how each individual chooses to deal with them, i respect that as a private matter and one that shouldn't be belittled...

    still, there was just a young couple of dancers interpreting a cultural influence in their own apparently innocent way. the hype IMV is inflammatory and needless... tho serves media well for creating drama, interest, and divisiveness. chilling out and just appreciating the art and the athleticism for what it is would go a long way for peace and enjoyment... i find it such a shame that two young athletes & artists work their tuckuses off, only for people to find every which way to rip them to shreds. just not my way, i guess.
     
  17. danceronice

    danceronice Well-Known Member

    And their OLD costumes were worse--the old body paint used actual Aboriginal religious art (it's still grossly offensive for a woman to be wearing red at all) and their body suits were much darker, as was Shabalin's makeup. The Aboriginal community in Australia had expressed that they are deeply offended by the routine and the costumes. DomShabs initial response was that "It wasn't really AUSTRALIAN, it was like people danced in prehistoric times", the ISU pointed out that if that were so, the dance was in violation of the ISU definition of this season's original dance, and they tried backpedaling again, claiming they did "Lots of research" when it's painfully obvious they have not. They also have given at best a lukewarm sorry to the Aborigines (who aren't taking it, given their reaction to last night.)

    I'm assuming those who don't have a problem with the costumes would be okay with someone interpreting Mickey Rooney's "Breakfast at Tiffany's" character on ice, or doing an authentic folk 19th century blackface routine. To the Aborigines, whom they're attempting to depict, it's on a moral par. Trading gifts with the First Nations of Canada doesn't address the concerns of a people with a VERY long history of being treated as tourist curiosities as best and animals at worst. Representatives of that people have repeatedly said the routine is grossly offensive. D/S should have listened to that. I am one of the LEAST PC people out there, and when I first saw a picture of their costumes I was appalled. I can hardly blame the people they were representing for feeling worse.

    Plushenko can land a quad, but he can only do it at the front of the program (which diminishes its value), and his footwork sequences and spins aren't Level 3 or 4. He got away with it in Torino, and cruised back in (partially because Russia has nothing else in men) expecting to do the same. The whining after the fact that the quad is everything was laughable childish and, I strongly suspect, a way of pressuring the ISU to give DomShabs a medal, preferably gold. That's almost certainly not going to happen--the Compulsory is their strongest section and it's worth the least. In the OD and FD, they don't have the speed, the edging, the twizzles (huge part of the score)...given Shabalin's knees, it's physically impossible (their excuse for not switching back to their old Kalinka folk dance was his knees couldn't handle the routine any more.)

    The scoring system does not place all the emphasis on jumps. There are two sections, technical and program component. The former includes jumps, spins, and footwork elements. Plushenko gets points for the first--though he jumped VERY badly for him in the LP. That lutz certainly had negative Grades of Execution on takeoff, air and landing, and his 3a as well. His spins are mediocre, and his footwork is Level 2. Lysacek's is usually Level 3, Takahashi's Level 4 when he's on. (Now, if Takahashi had landed his quad and come second, HE would have had reason to complain. His program is the full package, if he could only put two clean programs together in one competition!) And Plushenko REALLY lacks in the PCS--he's actually said himself, he has no transitions (an entire subsection of the PCS mark), and his choreography is weak. If anything, he's been held up in IJS-marked competitions with TRN and CH scores that were too high for what was actually on the ice. (The equivalent of the old "If he lands his jumps, give him a 5.9, 5.9".) Ironically, he lost to Lysacek on the technical mark as Lysacek's not a huge TRN/CH scorer, either.

    D/S are old by skating standards and on their way out (he won't hold up another season and has admitted as much--having blown a knee I'd love to know what painkillers he's using because dance is ALL knees). Plushenko is also old for men's singles--for Sochi he'd be 31, and while you can sometimes get away with that for dance and pairs because of the lower jump content (though Zhao Hongbo is considered an elder statesman at 36 and absolutely will not be back for Sochi at 40!) this isn't ballroom--sometimes, if you're incredibly lucky with injuries, you can make it to your early thirties. Maybe. If you're a woman, you're pretty much done around 26, 27 for singles. The more quads you do, the harder it is for men (Alexei Yagudin, who was a true artist with a quad, had to retire from show skating for a hip replacement.) So yes, Plushy's old. He's past his prime. Because the Plushenko of Torino would not have fallen apart in the LP like he did. For him, that was not good. The whining about judging after the fact just made it even worse.
     
  18. wooh

    wooh Well-Known Member

    Liked the British brother and sister team. Liked the music. Liked the "backwards" lift (since it fit the theme and wasn't just a "look at what we can do.")
     
  19. wooh

    wooh Well-Known Member

    I think the thing I'm enjoying most about watching the ice dancing is it's a reminder of how forward poised they are. There's a group of ice dancers in our ballroom community and the men are right on top of me when I dance with them. You want to say, "You aren't on ice, you can stand up straight!" But then you remember to be polite and just hope that one day they'll take a dance lesson with someone that will fix it. But seeing how forward you've got to be to skate makes me happy that they're only as forward as they are.
     
  20. wooh

    wooh Well-Known Member

    The French couple was beautiful to watch.
     

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