Tango Argentino > Videos > A question of style?

Discussion in 'Videos' started by opendoor, Aug 25, 2010.

  1. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Hello foristas, Ezequiel shows a constant up and down moving on the ball. I worked hard to avoid such things. So, is that a label for a certain style, an attitute, or simply a habit?

  2. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    I think it's just a personal preference. There are several ways of "embellishing" (dressing up, or distinguishing) the walk. This is but one. Some people like it, and others say it should not be done.

    FWIW, I've heard some teachers say go down, but only come up when pausing to do figures, some come up on every step (like this leader), some do the counter/contra body movement, and some even rise on every step (on the side where the foot lands). It's sort of like the toe first vs heel first debate.
  3. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    if you watch some of VillA Urquiza style dancers they flow up and down and it looks rather nice.
  4. Captain Jep

    Captain Jep New Member

    Gosh he looks ridiculous. Quite an old-school performance. Very salon - seems like the last 10 years of performance tango have passed him by.

    He's saved to a large extent because of who he is dancing with. Despite his motion she seems to still move smoothly in a wave. She also keeps him stable when he looks like he is about to stumble (eg at 3:21).

    The audience clap at the end but hey these guys are family - they're bound to clap regardless..
  5. v22TTC

    v22TTC New Member

    I must admit that I do this a little, myself; just now and then, as punctuation - a sort of undulation of my body in time to a particularly sweeping bit of di Sarli's strings, say.

    Only in open hold though, and I bend my arms slightly to compensate, so the undulation doesn't transfer across to the woman.
  6. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Re. VU

    I use to identify Villa Urquiza style with the dancing of Finito, and he does not bob up and down at all ! Watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7HmCGjYRYE
  7. bastet

    bastet Active Member

    I see the bobbing now and again, and it's not limited to toe leads. If you watch any videos of Melina and Detlef, he always goes with ball of foot and doesn't bob that I can recall. I see bobbing in heel leaders too so I think it has more to do with how they are using their knees than ball of foot versus heel...but that could just be my undereducated guess.

    I guess it comes down to preference.
  8. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    I guess we just like different things. I don't have any issue with the "head bob" thing. If I were to really nit pick, it would be about his footwork (looking a bit feminine at times). I also didn't see the stumble that you referred to @ 3:21. Overall, I think he danced well.
  9. jantango

    jantango Active Member

    It appears they have improved the floor at Club Sunderland by replacing all the broken and missing tiles. Has anyone been there this year to dance?

    I understand the entrada for the milonga is 25 pesos. The only place that charges more is Ideal when an orchestra is performing.
  10. Captain Jep

    Captain Jep New Member

    Feminine? Dont you mean "mincing" ... lol ... :cool:
  11. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    I have no clue what you guys are talking about. I didn't think his footwork was feminine or mincing...I thought it was smooth and elegant. I don't get the criticism of it being out of style--isn't music and dance styles that are considered "original" often held up as ideal? And bobbing? What...???
  12. Ampster

    Ampster Active Member

    I thought the performance was very smooth and fine. IMHO, its something you could associate with, tone it down a bit and take it to a milonga floor.
  13. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    It looks to me like he is landing on a bent knee and then straightening it just as he starts the reach for his next step. In the turning moves, he stays down, so there is less bobbing.

    Not making any kind of value judgment on the bobbing.. just my observation of the mechanics I'm seeing.

    My partner does this to some extent.. he has a very strong forward pressure, tends to land on a bent knee, and then propels himself forward by a... lets call it "energetic"... straightening of the standing knee (almost as though he is sending it backwards) to begin the next step.

    I never really noticed the bobbing while dancing with him, but I did notice a certain feeling of difficulty in staying connected. Then a teacher pointed out to us that the problem was that while he is landing on a bent knee and straightening it for the next step, I had a habit of landing on a too stiff knee and allowing it to bend only after I had transferred all my weight to it. That meant that we were both bobbing, but in opposition to one another. The teacher said that neither of us was bobbing all that much, but it was the combination that was making it such a big problem. I was going down just as he was going up and vice versa.

    Also, my tendency to land stiffly needed to be addressed no matter what, so fixing my own walk habits pretty much solved the problem, at least as it FEELS while dancing together... and isn't that what really matters?
  14. pwpulto

    pwpulto Member

    In my opinion you should ask yourself two questions. First of all you want to know if it is a normal physiological movement. In this case it isn't. During normal gait the heel always touches the ground first, followed by the fifth metatarsal and finally the first metatarsal. This normal sequence should be the point of departure, the point of reference for your movement.
    Having this point of reference in mind you can ask yourself the second question: is there a personal, artistic, expressive reason to depart from this normal movement. In general I don't recommend to depart from physiological movement patterns when "permanent aspects" of the dance are concerned. With "permanent aspects" I mean this motor patterns that you use throughout the dance. Ezequiel's example is a "permanent aspect", since gait is permanently present. Other examples are aspects of your posture and your abrazo.
  15. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    you say this but normal is just habit watch any infant and they put their toes down first; because; the foot is a spring working from the ankle; it is easier arriving on the heel whilst walking. I would query which metatarsal arrives next as from observation of my feet it feels its like the ball of the foot arrives pretty mush at the same time

    as Oscar Wilde said "To be natural is such a very difficult pose to keep up."
  16. v22TTC

    v22TTC New Member

    I hope that I'm not being unwarrantedly pedantic, but I have to ask ''normal' for what?' Like horses, we have different gaits for different things.

    I guess you mean the distance-eating gait, but you won't be using that under milonga conditions - as movement needs to be more precise, it is 'normal' for balance to be transferred more onto the balls of the feet.

    Dunno; could be wrong - I've spent so many years training myself to move 'properly' that even in my turbo-walk (and it is!), my heel never hits first (at 'worst', and only in a shoe/boot with a heel, will my heel land at the same time as the ball)... maybe I've just forgotten how to walk 'normally'?...:confused:

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