Tango Argentino > Advices For Milonga Participants

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by wadpro, Jan 18, 2010.

  1. wadpro

    wadpro Member

    My advices especially for male dancers.

    Sometimes some people go to milongas for just watching and they dont know how to dance. And you had better not to ask them for a dance because you will be rejected. So, how can you know if someone in a milonga knows how to dance or not? If you are a male, you can easly find out if a woman can dance or not by just looking at her shoes. If she doenst wear a high-heel shoe, she probably cant dance so keep away from her :)

    You should be careful before asking for a dance from a woman who has just rejected a man. Because she might be a beginner or she doesnt know how to dance. And dont try to ask for a dance from a woman who rejects more than one men :)

    When you are sitting in a milonga watch the dance floor and decide who you want to dance with.

    Let the woman decide close or open embrace. Do not try to dance close embrace if the woman doesnt want.

    Never go to milongas before taking a shower and use perfumes.


    (Please add your own advices)
     
  2. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Not true..and, not true. There are plenty of reasons why a woman would wear a low-heeled shoe, and plenty of reasons why a woman might reject one man but be willing to accept an invitation from someone else.
     
  3. wadpro

    wadpro Member

    I dont claim that my advices are always true in every conditition. They are just generalization, of course there are some exceptions.
     
  4. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    They are "mostly" opinion, and, IMO, badly taken as "advice". Of course, there are many things that one should watch/watch out for at a milonga, and all things have 'some' degree of relevance. Yet, again, IMHO, there are many other things that are extremely more pertinent than the heels of her shoes... such as; "Let the woman decide close or open embrace. Do not try to dance close embrace if the woman doesnt want.

    Never go to milongas before taking a shower...."
     
  5. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    not so much, no...

    Your assumptions about women are not even good generalizations with allowances for "exceptions". They are just bad advice... in general ;). Maybe they work where you are, but you can't extrapolate that to the entire world (which is the community of this board)

    For starters, a growing number of women who dance well are wearing dance sneakers or various styles of jazz or teaching shoes. And a growing number of newbies who want to "look the part" dress in fancy clothes and shoes. I myself got reamed for my basic mistakes by a total stranger at a milonga because he assumed from my appearance that I was an experienced (and possibly proffesional) tango dancer.

    Nope. At the time I'd been dancing for only a year or so. I just like dressing up. Conversely, I know several ladies who are quite good, but due to foot issues, wear only flats. Heel height and fanciness of the shoe (or anything else about the outfit, for that matter) says more about the person's style preferences than they do about the dancer that person is. How would you react to followers who only dance with guys in double breasted suits and wing tips because they think that's what a "real" tanguero would wear?

    As for someone who just turned down another guy.. If I get asked to dance with someone I really need to refuse because he's on my (very short... currently only 2 people) blacklist, then I feel obligated to sit out the tanda (or at the very least, that song) I won't turn one guy down and then immediately accept a dance from someone else.

    So chances are, if both those guys are present and I can't "refuse" them indirectly, I WILL turn down more than one guy. Two to be exact. I'll also turn down some of my favorites if I feel winded and need to rest, but I always tell them to PLEASE seek me out later when I've recovered. Are you able to tell what dialog transpires between a leader and a follower when she is turning him down?

    I assure you that I am no longer a beginner (though it feels like it some nights..;)) and I DO know how to dance (except when I don't seem to...:rolleyes:) The idea that seeing me turn someone down reveals ANYTHING about my dancing or the likelihood that I'll dance with someone else during the evening is downright silly. That pretty much holds true for 95% of the followers I know.

    Of course, what's also sorta baffling is your assumption that a follower who turns someone down does so because she thinks she's not good enough for him. Perhaps that reveals something about you and what you tell yourself to deal with rejection? This post does seem to be in the vein of "how to avoid rejection" as we've seen before.

    Where I am, its very rare for a follower to turn someone down for being too GOOD for her. Its far more likely that she will turn him down because she thinks HE'S not good enough. Of course, there are so many more followers than leaders here, that they rarely turn down ANY chance to dance, even if its with a Wookie. The ones most likely to be picky (from what I can see) are the intermediate followers... beginners are thrilled to be asked to dance. Advanced dancers know they should be able to dance with less skilled leaders and still make for an enjoyable tanda for themselves and their partner.

    As for perfumes... please... Everyone... go easy on the scents. They can be overwhelming when you get hot, and they spread to whatever your skin touches. I can't rell you how many times I've come home smelling like a combination of several guys' cologne.
     
  6. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    That's the only one I'd say is rock-solid.

    It's like the guy says in that "sunscreen" song.

    Replace "sunscreen" with "showering" and you're there :)

    I have a whole shedload of articles on my site: "Unlocking the Milonga".

    But I won't pretend they're in any way authoritative. They're just opinons.
     
  7. Lilly_of_the_valley

    Lilly_of_the_valley Well-Known Member

    Hahaha. That reminded me.
    Once I was in a milonga, wearing low heel shoes with laces, that were in fact dancing shoes but looked a lot like low-key street shoes. One man I had not met before approached me and asked to a dance. I said yes and stood up. A moment later he looked down at my feet and went:"Are you a dancer? Do you know how to dance tango?" I smiled at him, and told him that he was about to find that out. We danced a tanda.
    In the end he was extremely apologetic, told me that I was indeed a great dancer, and that he hoped to dance with me again in the future.
    He was not a good dancer by any means, apparently, very inexperienced, and that what inexperienced people at times do: they judge their prospective partners by their footwear. (Why in the world? Anybody who has money can buy shoes. A shoe vendor does not ask you to demonstrate your dancing ability before selling you a pair.)
    And that particular one even decided to pass the judgment after he issued the invitation, not before. I hope he became more careful afterward.
     
  8. Lilly_of_the_valley

    Lilly_of_the_valley Well-Known Member

    What is so horrible about that, and shall be avoided at all cost? I do not see "Sorry, I am not dancing, I am here to watch" as a rejection any way I look at it.:confused:
     
  9. Subliminal

    Subliminal Well-Known Member

    So THAT'S what I've been doing wrong. :eyebrow:
     
  10. Heather2007

    Heather2007 New Member

    And if you are female: well if he doesn't stand at 1 metre/80 or more, has a butt as hard as a brick, washboard abs to make a washboard erm..weep, the torso of a swimmer, the pins of a sprinter, a winning thick-lipped smile, gentle eyes, glossy hair, smells like a toiletries counter, has a chiselled jaw that only yesterday were copied onto GQ and can dance you into another dimension entirely, then ladies, give the bloke a wide berth, he simply ain't worth a look-in. :lol:
     
  11. newbie

    newbie Well-Known Member

    That's how I once invited a girl in high heels who couldn't dance tango. She had come to watch, and she was wearing her salsa outfit.

    I wish. The women with whom I want to dance are usually never available for me, their leaders won't let them go.


    No. The embrace is part of the lead.
     
  12. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Regarding the embrace:

    Why does it have to be either the woman or the man determining it? What's wrong with some simultaneous negotiation by both parties? Generally speaking, as you're getting ready to dance, it's pretty obvious what someone is comfortable with. Pay a bit of attention, use your instincts, and make the changes necessary to create a good embrace and good dance for both of you.

    It shouldn't be an issue of The Man Determines The Embrace because he's the leader and sets the tone of the dance and the women have to deal. Nor should it be a question of The Woman Determines The Embrace because...I don't know what the rationale is--perhaps the idea that women are inherently less comfortable with close embrace. (Is it the boobs? Really? Cuz, you do realize that at a certain point they're much more interesting to you gents than they are to us. Mostly for us they just get in the way, or fail to make clothing fit right, or manage to catch all food drips. Just not interesting.) The embrace should never be a case of one person imposing their will on the other, because someone somewhere has told you that one or the other of the partners has that right. No one has the right to make someone else uncomfortable with an embrace they don't like. No one. It's got to be a mutual negotiation.
     
  13. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    Re: embrace
    The invitation to the embrace is part of the lead.

    But in the UK at least, this is an invitation - it's considered poor form to yank a partner into close embrace against her will. If the partner resists that invitation, then you dance in open.
     
  14. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    :D Thanks Peaches... that's how I see the situation and what i usually do.
     
  15. bafonso

    bafonso New Member

    I believe you are over-generalizing in a lot of your advices. Maybe you could travel more and go to more milongas before making such big claims...
     
  16. bafonso

    bafonso New Member

    It's always a negotiation. Anyone that tells you otherwise is trying to sell you an idea rather than what happens every night at the milongas. The lack of negotiation skills has never been good to anyone.
     
  17. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    Good post, Peaches.
     
  18. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    It warms my heart to hear you say this. Sadly, a lot of people seem to have missed that memo and will vehemently defend the idea of one partner or the other being allowed to determine the embrace. See the OP of this thread, and post #11 as examples.
     
  19. newbie

    newbie Well-Known Member

    Because the change of embrace during the dance is part of the lead and the lead is done by the leader. It's purely technical. When a follower doesn't follow the change of embrace it's just like anything that she does not follow, be it a boleo or a change of weight. When it happens I just take note, "this one can't change the embrace", like I would note that "this one has no axis" or "this one takes only small steps".
     
  20. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    I would argue that being able to change the embrace mid-dance (or being able to do it well) is a completely separate thing than entering into the embrace at the start of the dance or tanda.

    Surely, if you realized your partner was uncomfortable with close embrace, you wouldn't try to force it during the middle of the dance?

    Furthermore, while it is generally considered the lead's perogative to change the embrace within the course of the dance, the woman also has a say. She can refuse to go back into closed, for example, or indicate in other ways that she would like to switch from open to closed. It is still a negotiation, and still...no one has the right to be unilaterally determining the embrace.
     

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