Salsa > anyone ever go to a Frankie social?

Discussion in 'Salsa' started by yippee1999, Dec 19, 2006.

  1. Salcero

    Salcero Member

    Before you generalize, take a look at this video of Frankie dancing when he doesn't know he is being recorded and with a fantastic partner
  2. yippee1999

    yippee1999 Member

    Noobster: I (follower) have never danced with a Frankie person, so I can't really say if they are all "self-centered" dancers, although I don't see how that quality would necessarily be passed on from teacher to student. I think it would come from the natural personality of the dancer him/herself.

    I can't really say if all his dancers try to look cool and uninterested, but it does bring to mind an interesting experience I once had....

    Back when I was new to the whole NYC salsa scene, I was at what was I think my first Jimmy's social. I remember there was a woman that I really enjoyed watching. In retrospect, she may have been a Frankie type, but at the time my untrained eye would not have recognized that. But I DO recall that she was doing what at the time I considered "jazzy" type little foot moves. AND she had on those flat, lace-up jazz shoes (that many Frankie types wear). Anyway, when I appreciate someone's dancing, I like to tell them so. So when she came back over to the side of the floor, I told her I really liked her style, and asked her where she had trained. She put on a feigned look of surprise and said "who ME???!!!" (..."oh, I'm not THAT good")...."I took a few belly dancing classes but that was about it", and with that, she turned her head away making it clear she did not want to talk anymore. And all I could think was "who is she kidding? Clearly you don't dance salsa like that from just a few belly dancing classes."

    Which brings up another point.... I've noticed that people can react very "funny" sometimes when you compliment them on their dancing, and I have to wonder if, if they see you as an inferior dancer, they will almost be insulted, whereas if someone at or above their level were to compliment them, they'd respond in a very different manner.
  3. naturallove

    naturallove New Member

    Yippee, I know that when someone (especially someone who really doesn't dance) tells me how good my dancing is, I feel almost like a fraud! I thank them, but I know good and well how many better dancers are floating around (if they only knew!) Perhaps I shouldn't be so self-depracating.
  4. alemana

    alemana New Member

    once you start to make the transition from complimenter to complimentee, your whole perspective changes - it really does take a little work, for many of us, to NOt feel like a fraud when we are complimented. "oh, i am not that good." or to yourself: "this person obviously knows nothing."

    i think my new years' resolution will be to take these complimenting moments at face value, and try to have "beginner's mind" about them - remember how it felt as a beginner to see someone inspire me and work up the nerve to speak to them.

    as for the "oh i just had a few yak-roping lessons" or whatever people - feh on them. a heavy investment in Appearing Super Cool (which is what the dismissiveness towards classes is rooted in) is an expression of personal insecurity. unfortunatley it's quite prevalent in our scene.
  5. borikensalsero

    borikensalsero Moderator

    hehehehe... we can always count on alemana to tell it like it is.
  6. englezul

    englezul New Member

    What's "yak-roping" ?? Never heard this before.
  7. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    thanks, salcero. i really enjoyed this clip. very nice. he's well-matched with his partner & their dancing looks enjoyable... for both
  8. sweavo

    sweavo New Member

    wow, we have all this talk of etiquette on the dance floor yet people don't know that a simple "hey, thanks!" is all you need to say when someone says they like your stuff...!
  9. borikensalsero

    borikensalsero Moderator

    hey, thanks! :)
  10. englezul

    englezul New Member

    This is very simply because

    1. They hear it a lot.
    2. They don't actually care what you think since they don't know you and you're not an equal or higher status than they (in that scene).
    3. They have already been validated by people more 'important' than you and your appreciation values too less now.
    4. Who are you to qualify them?
    5. Some people cannot make a compliment without making it weird, whether is the look of expectancy in their eyes, or the words sound weird or rushed, or they're jittery, or they just appear out of no where and they're too invading.

    That #4 refers to your observation that if they'd receive that same compliment from some pro, they'd actually respond positively.

    If you're not a pro, and they've been putting a lot of effort in it, and you are a 'nobody' that compliment will not have too much value because however bright you might be (and they don't know this either) you could not completely comprehend how much effort and what challenges they faced get there. And you won't until you do it for yourself. So your words of praise have too little weight to them.

    This is alot more obvious in the movie Made with Vince Vaughn, when he tries to be cool and gives P. Diddy props to which P Diddy replies rather violently emphasizing "you're a nobody, you can't give anyone props". That's basically what happens. Especially when they can't give a compliment from a position of power and they place themselves in that "oh, not another one of these guys" category.
  11. yippee1999

    yippee1999 Member

    Oh, I totally understand Englezul. In a similar vein, I know if someone with "bad taste" for example were to compliment my outfit, I wouldn't like that. :--) I suppose I can't say the woman whose dancing I complimented was "rude", but I could see that she was rather disinterested and disingenuous.
  12. noobster

    noobster Member

    I think it is so, so sad that there are people out there who actually think this way.

    To somebody less advanced than yourself, you are always going to look great. Someone who has only had three salsa lessons will already look cool to someone who's had none. Conversely, no matter how good you get you will still see the people ahead of you and think you suck. I definitely understand the urge to answer a compliment with "No, I suck!" It just feels stupid that anyone should compliment you when you are in a sea of people who are light-years ahead of you.

    I'd bet on it being what naturallove said. She (edit: she = dancer who dissed yippee's compliment) was probably just shy/embarrassed at the compliment. And who knows, maybe she hadn't really had a lot of salsa classes. She could have been translating stuff from another dance she knew well. A trained salser@ would notice if what she was doing wasn't quite 'salsa-ish' but someone who hadn't been watching very long might just see graceful, musical movement and confuse it for salsa training.

    Snicker. I started a thread on this phenomenon a while ago ("reading your grade in your partner's eyes"). It's not everybody - I wouldn't even say it's a majority. There's definitely a contingent though. I don't know why they do it. They could be bored, or concentrating really hard, or it could be their 'game face,' or whatever. Who knows why people do what they do.
  13. Salcero

    Salcero Member

    Good explaination!
  14. naturallove

    naturallove New Member

    Actually, I've been dancing for quite awhile, although I have only been consistent with my lessons this year. :) Although I've seen some improvement, the more I learn, the more I know how much MORE there is to learn. For example, I've been learning about rumba this year--although my dancing is infused with its influence, I don't know nearly as much as I would like.
  15. noobster

    noobster Member

    "she" in the post above referring to the complimentee in yippee1999's example. Not to naturallove. :) Internet communication is so confusing sometimes.
  16. DCR

    DCR Member

    I been to several..but I don't go particually for who's doing it..I go for the dancing.
  17. naturallove

    naturallove New Member

    It really is! I totally misunderstood--but do agree with the observation.
  18. englezul

    englezul New Member

    I think this is the major reason. For the good people around here, who coincidentally or not are mostly teachers themselves, it becomes a challenge not to be bored when you're going out 4 if not 5 nights a week, and you're always doing the same stuff with the same people. Sure they explore but...4 nights a week is too much if you want to have every dance to be exciting and fresh.
  19. borikensalsero

    borikensalsero Moderator

    There are people who do not compliment on moves, technique, dips, aerials, etc. Regardless of skill level, the "compliment-or" can identify the attributes he/she likes; hence project that as a compliment. However, many of us "dancers" think dancing is technique, moves, patterns, musicality, hence why we look so dead in the heart. Eventually assume someone is a better dancer... Therefore, dismissing any or all compliments, even taking it as in insult, when someone of a "lesser" pedigree compliments them. To me, many of the praised and sought after dancing styles are synonymous to jogging through an obstacle course and coming out as if it there was never a jog; lots of physical action accompanied by the glory of self mastery.

    Some people, I for instance, compliment on a different standard, out of the top dancers in NY City there is only one who I go out of my way to compliment. And the one is actually a ballroom dancer, who I think should grab all of these "top dancers", put them in a room and teach them how to care about their partner.

    Many advanced salseros blow off a compliment because they dance from the ego; always at a distance from the heart. They assume that a compliment is a merit of physical status. The compliments that have meant the most to me have come from the folks that actually see beyond comatose patterns and inert connections... Only from a beginner do I take the compliments on skill, seriously; for they see something for which to strive… To be honest, it seems that compliments beyond the body are prevalent to the mature crowed who understands that while a rabbit can fly through pleasures of the flesh, the heart makes all the difference.

    I assume that they’ve lived the fast, the materially impeccable, and physically awe stirring, but with the passage of time they’ve come to realize that wealth of the material cannot amount to wealth of the heart. Not that the young don’t have it, ‘cause it is also there, it just seems that it takes a heck of a lot more than impeccable rhythm and musicality to stir the heart of the wise. At a young salsa age we are more concerned about quantity and quality of the body than we are about quality of the heart.

    Pretty much, we tend to adore the narcissist body, praise it for its beauty, and yet disregard that behind the facade work needs be done. we look for a version of models on the dancefloor, nothing more nothing less. If someone is fat and ugly, but has the heart and personality of charm, then they are no good on the dancefloor; they can't dance and we are looking for folks who can actually look good so we can lose the pounds, get surgery from the masters, and bang, now we are worthy of praise.
  20. peachexploration

    peachexploration New Member

    :notworth: :notworth: :notworth: :notworth:

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