General Dance Discussion > Bad Etiquette :(

Discussion in 'General Dance Discussion' started by pygmalion, Jul 10, 2004.

  1. quixotedlm

    quixotedlm New Member

    why don't you all just learn to smile and say no without giving reasons? then do as you please... go dance with someone else if that's what you want to..
     
  2. waltzgirl

    waltzgirl Active Member

    Well, it depends on the venue. That would be considered very rude at a ballroom social.
     
  3. Catarina

    Catarina New Member

    Oftentimes, a simple no isn't enough of a response though. Many guys will persist in asking, take my hand and try to pull me toward the floor. If I am genuinely tired, don't like the song, etc, I will say so and continue to give my regrets. Their persistence and rudeness backfires on most of them, as I want to dance with that person even less! I thnk I've just gotten in the habit of justifying my "no" as a result of these kinds of guys...to ward them off as efficiently as possible when I don't feel like dancing to a song/with that guy.
     
  4. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    If the guy is gonna cause you pain, you clearly have no intention of dancing with the guy, ever, so do you care whether or not he thinks you're rude? Unless you think he's gonna go around telling people how rude you are? Go ahead and dance with the best dancer! :)
     
  5. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    Sabers, at dawn?
     
  6. mamboqueen

    mamboqueen Well-Known Member

    Not remotely. In fact, I had a conversation with a guy once about the state of my back after dancing with him. I gave it one more try and decided that was it. So, for him, I don't particularly care. Then there's the case of the "sweater" who I'll give one dance to, but that's it...and early on before he's a complete sponge. It's more in situations like that where I feel a bit obligated to sit it out. It's really too bad you have to care at all. I think you should be able to dance with whom you want without having to make excuses or feel like you're being rude if you dance with someone else. I don't care one iota myself if someone declines me and then dances with someone else.
     
  7. noobster

    noobster Member

    I've thought of that, but in practice it's very difficult to do something that you know is so offensive to so many people.

    Personally I agree with mamboqueen - I don't think this should be so much of an issue. It's really just pretending that all leaders are equal and equally fun to dance with; but that is not true and I don't really see the sense in an etiquette that pretends it is. You're not prevented from going on a date with guy B after turning down guy A, so why should you be for a dance?

    But since I know lots of leaders feel it's very offensive, I find the etiquette difficult to breach. It doesn't come up frequently because I usually say yes to dance requests, but it has once or twice in instances like this - where I've already danced with the guy A in question and I know he's a twister/yanker/stepper.

    And yes, it is annoying to have to sit out a good song just because the first guy who happened to ask me was one of those.
     
  8. Catarina

    Catarina New Member

    Just this weekend, I was declining offers to dance bachata, as I was pretty tired and didn't know any of the askers as dance buddies. I was standing to the side, a great song came on next in the bachata mix, and another gentleman came up to me, and asked if I wanted to dance. I gave my "i'm tired, so sorry" face, and he asked again, "but do you want to dance?" Yes was the honest answer at that point. Different lead, different song, and I wanted to dance no matter how tired i was. We're all entitled to a change of opinion, right? And it was some great bachata too, I might add!
     
  9. WorksForShoes

    WorksForShoes Member

    It seems to me that a lot of etiquette is about establishing social norms that allow for the saving of face by all parties. For example, the instructive but probably apocryphal story of [insert high ranking personage here] who noticed a person of lesser rank at the dinner table mistakenly drinking from a finger bowl, who responded by drinking from his/her own. It isn't about enforcing certain behavior but more about establishing a code that allows everyone to preserve dignity.

    Therefore, it is rude to turn down a person's request for a dance and then immediately hop out onto the floor with someone else because it is tantamount to telling the first person the denial was personal -- it might have been, but this is etiquette, not absolute honesty.

    Conversely, it is rude to "force" a person to dance -- to say "oh, sure you are!" to protests that "but I'm not comfortable dancing Viennese in public yet." It is rude to ignore obvious non-verbal cues that the person is not available (for this song, for the night, whatever) -- such as being deeply involved in a conversation or being physically attached to an SO. That person is already saying they are not available for a dance, so the asker should respect that. We all know how to change our body language to look receptive.

    Additionally, I think there is a bit of a social contract in place when two people consent to dance. Both parties are saying they will try to make the dance as pleasant for the other as possible. Thus, the leader is implicitly saying he will not take a follower unfamiliar to him and start the dance with an upper level move or one that she needs to "know" in order to follow. He is also saying he will not make the follower feel bad about failure to communicate (which is what failure to follow is), and that he won't keep leading the same thing over and over, getting progressively snippier, if she isn't able for whatever reason to follow it. The follower, on the other hand, is promising to pay attention and try to the best of her ability to follow what is lead -- even if that is a whole song of box steps and forward basics, no fair looking bored, talking to others on the dance floor, window shopping others' dresses and shoes, or demanding moves that she would like to do.

    I think this is the etiquette implicit at a social. I love Chris's idea of a practice dance that explicitly has different etiquette -- this is a night for trying new moves, working things out with partners, offering suggestions and taking criticisms. The agreement here would be to share knowledge, not to save face, so it would be a different social contract.
     
  10. Ron Obvious

    Ron Obvious New Member

    I liked what you wrote as a whole, but I don't think this statement is true.
     
  11. WorksForShoes

    WorksForShoes Member

    Ron Obvious, you're probably right that that was too much of a blanket statement. But I do think it is fairly intutive that if we want to be asked to dance, we tend to look up with that "oh! a mambo!" happy look on our faces, look around the room, maybe make sure that we don't have anything that looks time consuming in our hands, like a plate full of chili nacho dip and chips. Conversely, if we are thinking "rats, a mambo!" we tend to look down meaningfully into our beverage, engage in a conversation, maybe grip the hand of our SO or shove our own hands into our pockets. So some of the body language just happens naturally.
     
  12. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Bravo!!!
     
  13. Gssh

    Gssh Well-Known Member

    Hmm, in my social circle this is actually frowned upon - i remember quite a few conversations with guy A's that ran along the lines of "And she told me that it was not me, but her, and that she needed some time for herself and was not looking for a date right now, and the next day i saw her making out with guy B". Or "Yah, she just broke up with A, and two hours later she is already dating B".

    And besides, the big problem in dancing is that you still want to go on dates with A after you turned her down. I never turn a follower down without giving her her a reason why i turn her down (I promised a dance, i am taking a break, i want to dance another song with her), and then i try to make sure that i actually go back and dance with her later. Just like in dating i know that if i dump her in a bad way we are not going to be friends later - and the dance equivalent of getting my stuff thrown out on the street is to never be able to dance with her, or any of her friends again.

    Gssh
     
  14. wooh

    wooh Well-Known Member

    Funny thing happened at one social. End of night, I'd worked a 12 hour shift that day and not gotten much sleep the night before, so at that point, I was sooooo exhausted, I just couldn't dance anymore. Song comes on, I'd refused my husband, refused the studio owner. And then this one guy that's a decent lead but sooooo shy about asking women to dance asked me. Even though I was tired, I'd have said yes to him just because I'm soooo happy when he gets up the nerve to ask any girl. And I said no because I'd refused two guys, as etiquette says that I should. But the guys I'd refused, they wouldn't care, as THEY get happy to see this guy ask a girl to dance. It's funny how we get caught up in etiquette, and then realize that the feelings etiquette is designed to protect, it just ends up not working as well as common sense would. But in the split second you have to make a decision, etiquette is there, and common sense sometimes takes a bit to decide.
     
  15. noobster

    noobster Member

    Well, in your first example she lied (although it was a white lie really), and in the second example she was already in a relationship with A. But if A walks up to me out of the blue and asks me on a date, and I say no, he can't reasonably accuse me of poor etiquette because I say yes to a date with B tomorrow.

    No, I don't. I very very rarely turn people down. If I do, usually it is not about the guy but because I am literally heading out the door (have already changed my shoes). The small percentage of guys I have turned down for reasons of prior injury (three of them I can think of) or left on the dance floor for reasons of complete creepiness (two - and by complete creepiness I mean one of them was staring at my chest and appeared to be touching his own genitals while dancing) are people I never, never want to dance with. Ever.
     
  16. Ron Obvious

    Ron Obvious New Member

    Yes, to some extent it's controllable; I was just thinking of what has happened to me (and probably a lot of other people), and that's when someone special asks you to dance/chat/movies/whatever, and then usually I get nervous and send the complete opposite signals. (Well I don't as much anymore, but certainly have previolsly.) . Furthermore I think a lot of people aren't realising what body signals they send.
     
  17. Gssh

    Gssh Well-Known Member

    Well, this is outside the realm where courtesy is required (well, nowadays it is - this would be a nice occasion for a duel :) ) - really, when i think about the etiquette of turning down it is in the context of "I am right now not in the mood to dance with her, but i want to keep on good terms with her so that we can dance again some other time" - and i assumed that this is the same for followers. I feel a follower would be perfectly within her rights to bruise a leader as much as he bruises her - thats just self defense - so they are actually getting off lightly with a bruise to their ego. I am all for being rude to leaders that start it - how else will they learn that their behavior is unacceptable?

    GSH
     
  18. mamboqueen

    mamboqueen Well-Known Member



    This is where it's handy to have the post-it note that says "I'm a pervert" and you dance with him for 6 seconds and gently apply it to his back.

    I'm with Peaches - ICK!
     
  19. Sagitta

    Sagitta Well-Known Member

    There actually is an art to this. There are beginners who just hesitate as they don't know how. I've had people who wouldn't otherwise dance come with me because there friends pushed them and they had fun. The next time I asked them they jumped up.

    As others mentioned earlier....if I ask someone and they say they aren't dancing tonight, or something similar, then I see them dancing with someone else... Strike off my dance card. I'll never ask them again as I detest being lied to.


    I don't mind being simply told no thanks, I'll pass, or even I'm with someone if that's true. But never lie to me if you think you may want me to ask you to dance. And if come and ask me to dance at another time..they will get rejected. All liers do.
     
  20. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    this is what I LOVE about being stronger than most men
     

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