1. Siggav

    Siggav Active Member

    Steve - You may find this series of interviews that are just now on youtube interesting (assuming you've not run into them already)

    Angel HI and tangotime like this.
  2. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    Thanks for posting...
  3. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    Those are great! ... hadn't seen them yet.

    "We were dancing something...something resembling Balboa, but it evolved, eventually, into Balboa. We're talking about 1916, 1937, 1939.
    One of the Bal guys..."

    Bill Alcorn was identified as a champion Oregon jitterbug (although he was born in Spokane, WA) when he qualified for the June 1939 national and international jitterbug championship held in Los Angeles. He and his partner had their picture in the paper. He's also the one dancing with Jewel McGowan in Pot o Gold.
  4. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    Just chiming in to say, Yes, Bal is awesome; love it, love it, love it. Also, interesting that the 2 reigning champs of Bal and Bal-Swing are in France and Cali, and I was with them both in, where?..... Scotland. Bal... big stuff in your area, TT. Anyway, right you are; the dances are completely different.

    Great to know that you are doing it, Steve. Keep us up on it.
  5. Siggav

    Siggav Active Member

    Mickey and Kelly in Edinburgh?
  6. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    Anne Mills Part 2 advocates space between the partners.
    Part 4 "when you teach the hold... a man's arm should not go around a girl's back, not even half way. It should stop at the shoulder blade. that's around the 10:00 mark. Next, I believe she is commenting on lollies, and the fact that she and another of her contemporaries never did them.

    And, lollies are what we were introduced to in my lesson on Wednesday. When first moving into them, it seemed I was getting there too soon. I don't think we were given a "count," so I was not holding the one step (count 3) through two counts.
    At just about the end of the lesson we were shown how to lead an inside turn to get back into the basic position. But, we didn't really have time to nail it, I felt.

    I like what they are doing here around 0:30 better.

    And, of course, since I'm interested in the history of things...

    This is a very short clip showing "Randy swing" the type of swing dancing done in Los Angeles before The arrival of Lindy Hop.
    Lolly Wise is dancing with Lil Arnold, and Maxie Dorf is dancing with Mary McCasslin. These dancers were known as the "Ray Rand swingers" and did performances.
    after speaking with Lolly and watching this clip, we were inspired to name these kicks "Lollies" , even though Lolly just called them Charleston Kicks or kicks for short...The style is no doubt different, kicking across your body etc...
    regardless, people who enjoy this dance now know a Name they would have otherwise never known and this is where it came from....:) twobarbreak aka Peter Loggins
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2015
  7. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    And Steve, those "kicks " found their way into ECS, Jive and even a very compact version in Mambo .
  8. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    When doing lollies, I'm being told to NOT use a swing hold. There's one woman in the class that clearly indicates that this is uncomfortable to her. We are getting out of these with the man leading an inside turn while we step to the left on our left foot. This feels really awkward to me since my body is going to the left, and I'm leading my partner to my right.

    Any comments or tips on this?
  9. Siggav

    Siggav Active Member

    What do you mean by swing hold? When leading lollies I normally have my right hand almost on the side of my partner and then you have that springy compression and stretch thing happening in the left hands.

    Right hand has to move closer to the side because we open up a bit more than sometimes so being further along the back wouldn't work. Depends on size of partner and arm length and lots of different factors obviously.

    Leading exit from lollies I normally go into a throwout stretch and then finish with the latter half of a throwout.

    As for moving to the left while asking your partner go right, that tends to work if you have at least some counter balance energy going on, but I'm not sure exactly what's happening in your specific case.
  10. Siggav

    Siggav Active Member

    This video here has the entry and exit from lollies that I use most often (obviously it can be changed up)

  11. twnkltoz

    twnkltoz Well-Known Member

    This is what I was taught, too.
  12. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    Good video. Thanks.
    Played around with it yesterday at home (It's called practice!), and dropping the right hand on "eight,?" and using the old AT "torso twist" to the right feels like will help. The one gal who has issues with the "hand hold" has issues with where my hand is on her back, too, so...

    I see that he is stepping forward on his right to initiate the "around her" movement. I thought we started that on our left.
    I'm just gobsmacked that I can be this confused about this. But then, I had that fairly long talk with one of the other guys in the class, and he expressed the same observations that I had.
    But, just a note... I can get it done any number of ways and be on the music. Just trying to understand what I'm being asked to do.
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2015
  13. leee

    leee Well-Known Member

    Caveat: I've yet to actually dance Bal, so this is all theoretical, but maybe instead of thinking "left" you should think of "clockwise" instead?
  14. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    My "problem" is that I don't know if I'm supposed to start moving clockwise or "left" with my right foot -
    kick with right leg/foot, then step forward (which would be to the left = clockwise, instead of returning foot to the right of my left foot (ha)),


    kick with right leg/foot, return right foot to the right of my left foot, THEN step to the left - clockwise - with my left foot.

    If it's the first alternative, we don't seem to be staying with the "8 count" paradigm.
    Not that it matters that much, I guess.

    I just need to figure out what the instructors want us to do, STILL, even after we did it repeatedly.
  15. leee

    leee Well-Known Member

    From trying it out in my living room, for me the last set of lollies ends on the eight with your weight on your right -- as in kick (7), step (8). And then step on your left (1) to initiate the UAT. Hope that's helpful!
  16. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    That's what I thought, too, until I saw the video!
  17. Siggav

    Siggav Active Member

    I think the guy in the video fudges his footwork a bit or has "variation" going on. I normally have the same pattern that he has when going into lollies, i.e. you step step and then hold step. He seems to walk through all of it which I don't normally do and don't see very often.

    So I guess that was actually a bad video to share, but hey discussion is always good though.
  18. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    This video pretty much covers the same things we went over in our four 1 hour long classes.

    In spite of the frustration of not getting it fast enough, I can honestly say that I enjoyed this last class, especially practicing to the slightly slower music.
  19. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    I had to look at Laure' Haile's Balboa list, and she has Separation Breaks as Item 3.

    release slightly... keep shoulders close to partner's...allowing hips to swing freely backwards

    Anyone ever heard of those?
    She lists three.

    I guess I looked, because we have already learned 2 out of closed position moves.
    Her Open Break is 7. on her list (and there are b, c and even d items along the way.
  20. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    Looking at these vids, the body positions do not resemble anything like the Bal. I know. Its starting to look to " ballroomy ", and, the commencing basic , has changed from the original..
    Angel HI likes this.

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