General Dance Discussion > Ballroom Dancing vs. The Martial Arts

Discussion in 'General Dance Discussion' started by Spitfire, Apr 18, 2003.

  1. KaiTran

    KaiTran New Member


    HI Blondie,

    Well first I'd like to say that whoever told you that TKD is not a martial art has demonstrated they don't know fully what Martial Arts is all about. First the term Martial Art in itself means Warfare Art. TKD was created during the Japanese occupation of Korea during WW2 and the Koreans created it to basically have a way of defending themselves w/hand to hand combat. Anyway sorry about but I had to correct that since I get very touchy when people debate what is and isn't a Martial Art. As for a Martial Arts that doesn't concern punching or kicking, I'd recommend TAI CHI to you. Tai Chi is infact a Martial Art in case anybody says otherwise. Its just that you will have an extremely had time finding a good Tai Chi instructor since Tai Chi is mostly used as a relaxation sort of thing these days. It doesn't involved kicking or punching and relies on circular soft energy to fight back. The truth is however, I doubt you'll find a school that still teaches the combative aspects of TAI CHi and even if you find one, it'll take you about 30 years to learn correctly. If you are looking to the Martial Arts as a way of self-defense in a shorter amount of time, there isn't any way around not punching and kicking. The closes I think you'll get to what your asking about is Aikido. Although Aikido does have some strikes and what stresses mostly on redirecting your opponents energy against them. I hope this helps!
  2. danceguy

    danceguy New Member

    Hi KaiTran,

    Wow, I haven't seen you post in a while...quite a lurker!
    I wanted to comment a bit on your post as I've studied many styles of Taijiquan (Tai Chi) over the past 10 years.

    While you are correct that many teachers of Tai Chi only know the health aspects, rest assured the combative parts of the art are still alive and well. Sadly, there are not many practitioners who do teach the fighting elements, but there are some out there and more people are seeking to learn the entire art.

    I also wanted to mention that all systems of Tai Chi have punches and kicking. You won't see a lot of kicks, but they are there and quite effective in their use. As far as punches...Chen style in particular is full of them, and they are extremely powerful and deadly...but even softer styles such as Yang and Wu have punches. Other similiar arts such as Bagua are more open handed...while Hsing I Chuan is full of closed fist techniques. And oddly enough, one of the first teachers of Karate in the US (forget his name, but I can look it up later) taught some of the aspects of Hsing I in his schools...I'll find a link to his website and post it when I have more time...

    It certainly will not take 30 years to become proficient in Tai Chi, a good instructor, like in any MA can train you to become quite skilled in a matter of months. It all depends what you want out of it and how deep the training goes.

    Learning to hurt others is very easy, but learning to master any MA and become a good person who avoids violence can take 30 years...or many more for some people. :? :wink:


  3. johnnywalker

    johnnywalker New Member

    I wish more people could propagate exactly those sentiments. I've attended dojos where some students were more intent on learning to cause harm than to avoid conflict. I've witnessed a student being dismissed from my Aikido school for his agressive and disrespectful ways (he wouldn't even bow when entering the dojo or to an opponent). My sword instructor has been my best sensei though. The violent aspects of the art he has taught as history but the philosophy he has always taught has been more peaceful.
    I credit both styles with giving me a better understanding of movement, balance, co-ordination and space which I try to apply to dancing; unfortunately, not always successfully.
  4. Sarah

    Sarah New Member

    Hi Kai
    Nice to see you're still around.
    Um - Blondie's original post specified `fast moves'. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I understood that most tai chi practice is not exactly what you'd call fast.
    She also specified `no touching'. Around about the second[1] thing you'll be asked to do in just about any beginning aikido class is to grab someones wrist, and then it just gets more intimate from there.
    Actually the art that I think most fits the original description is iaido[2] - practice is primarily solo kata, no kicking anything, and you're most definitely not allowed to touch anyone. The clothes are cool, too.


    [1] after bowing ;)
    [2] Japanese sword drawing art.
  5. johnnywalker

    johnnywalker New Member

    Do you do Iaido, Sarah? The school I was at (have moved so am looking for another) taught Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu, Toyama Ryu and Batto Do. We were also part of the Shinkendo Federation.
    Although there is no 'touching' involved we sparred quite a bit with both bokken and iaito.
    The hakama is great. It is more comfortable than the normal gi. Looks more dynamic too on both Iaido and Aikido practitioners.
  6. Sarah

    Sarah New Member

    Yes, a while ago, until our Sensei had to move away. Also Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu.
    Until one catches a toe and falls flat on one's face. This seems to be a rite of passage in most aikido dojos, where in iaido you're taught to flick the thing carefully out of the way[1]. Then again most aikido dojos don't have bare hardwood floors.
    :mrgreen: Theres a thread on men in skirts in the salsa forum, if you're interested. :mrgreen:


    [1] in a cool and stylish manner :D
  7. johnnywalker

    johnnywalker New Member

    :oops: :shock: there's something oddly liberating about the hakama. :D but if you think you'll catch me in a skirt...well, it would depend on if it made me look good
  8. Sarah

    Sarah New Member

    Well, what do you reckon?

  9. johnnywalker

    johnnywalker New Member

    Ha ha...that's great. Hoots Mon, where's ma sporran?
  10. Noiseman433

    Noiseman433 New Member

    I agree. And really, there isn't as much of a discontinuity between martial arts and dance. A number of non-far-eastern martial arts still have "ties" to dance in the form of music (someone already mentioned Capoeira, and Muay Thai as a ring sport is always accompanied with music/musicians that improvise to the flow of the action) and theatre (Kalaripayat is still the basis for alot of theatrical training in Indian theatre like Mutiyettu and Kathakali; Muay Boran-ancient thai kickboxing, is primarily practiced as a theatrical form; Silek is the basis of West Sumatran Randai theatre). I look at dane and martial arts as just being at along some sort of continuum of movement based activities that can also include mime, acrobatics/gymnastics, and other less easily classifiable art forms...

    It is more of a Western/European mindset to separately categorize the arts into little boxes, but I also think that dance and martial arts traditions in the west are a little more dichotimized in that way, in a sense...
  11. Noiseman433

    Noiseman433 New Member

    haha...and that is really the basic difference between dance and martial arts isn't it? :wink:
  12. Noiseman433

    Noiseman433 New Member

    Some forms of Tai Chi are incredibly deadly efficient, indeed.

    I'm not sure who you mean, but I believe that Sosai Oyama incorporated Tai Chi into his Kyokushin didn't long outlive his death, unfortunately (I think only one of his students continued incorporating it)

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