Salsa > Ballroom vs Street/club Salsa

Discussion in 'Salsa' started by latindia, Aug 23, 2005.

  1. Big10

    Big10 Member

    No, I don't know you personally, although I think I may have seen an Internet clip of you dancing at some point. In any event, whatever style you do or whatever level of proficiency you have at dancing had nothing to do with my comments. I addressed one comment you made in this thread that was patently offensive to me (the one about SalsaAmore's ethnicity), and then I also addressed the other "fact" you stated in this thread (quoted below), which is demonstrably false:
    The way you phrased that so conclusively indicated being out of touch with at least some portion of Cuban dancers, since I am one of at least three people on this thread who have seen Cubans dancing Rumba very recently.


    Again, my comments should not be seen as antagonism to "Ballroom people" in general. I don't represent all of "the Salsa World" just like I know you don't represent all "Ballroom people." I was just annoyed at some overly broad statements you made....and I guess a little of my sarcasm came out at the end. I've met several ballroom dancers who frequently "cross-over" into the Houston Salsa club scene, and I have sincere respect for them.
     
  2. SalsaAmore

    SalsaAmore New Member

    Prejudice is ignorance, point blank. Anyway they want to put it, it just sheer stupidity and fear. This is in no means pointed to anyone in particular. But, many times they don't know what a racist remark sounds like or is. Nor do they know how ignorant and uneducated it makes them sound. If it's anyone that's hurt by racist words it's the person making it, because all eyes are on the person who spurts out blatant and stupid comments.



    Ditto...I was also annoyed by overly generalized statements and inconclusive statements thus my comments.

    But, Altman, apology accepted.

    Tacad, thank you for the compliment.

    BTW, off the subject here, no offense to anyone from Miami, but I heard that the Salsa scene isn't happening down there. I have had several friends (from SF/LA) who are top dancers go up to Miami expecting to find a decent salsa scene, but was highly disappointed. Does anyone know why that is? With so many people of Cuban descent there, you would think that there would be a really good Salsa scene going.
     
  3. Ms_Sunlight

    Ms_Sunlight New Member

    I thought we'd established that it's not genetic :wink:

    Otherwise, I know nothing of Miami but it seems to me it's a big place. Is it possible that they just didn't manage to find the action?
     
  4. SalsaAmore

    SalsaAmore New Member

    Genes have nothing to do with the Salsa scene. Culture does. Don't read into anything that isn't there. :roll: :wink:

    These people I'm speaking of, if there's Salsa to be had, they would find it. One of them is living there now.
     
  5. IsaacAltman

    IsaacAltman Member

    There is plenty going on. Maybe this will help.

    borntosalsa.com
     
  6. helloman

    helloman New Member

    "Chinaman" is a racially derogatory term,
    similar to the "N" word and others.
     
  7. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Zoinks!!! I'm afraid to go back and read this thread. :?

    Just want to say that I hope you know, helloman, that DF doesn't do that discrimination ... uh ... stuff. Sometimes we have some posters who (perhaps innocently) communicate in offensive ways, racially or otherwise.

    But, by way of official policy, DF doesn't support that kind of nonsense at all.
     
  8. SalsaAmore

    SalsaAmore New Member

    I knew I would have to elaborate. Okay, what these people meant is that it's not happening in Miami for Salsa is not that there's no Salsa dancing. But, when they say that the scene in this city is not happening means for example, in places like LA, NY, SF and many other cities in the U.S., there are certain nights of the week that Salsa is hot because of the kind of people (Salsero/as) that frequent it. So, you get great dancers that congregate there each night of the week.These friends of mine from LA and SF hasn't seen that. They've been around the Salsa scene for many years and found the scene in Miami disappointing. One living there said that she can't get her fix and is waiting for NY Congress to get her fix. It's not the first time I've heard this. So, my question was to mostly directed to frequent club goers in Miami that know the Salsa scene? And, why it's not really happening.
     
  9. SalsaAmore

    SalsaAmore New Member

    It sure is. The earlier part of the post, I thought was pretty thought provoking up to that point. Then, with his rant, I'm not sure what he's getting at. :roll:

    Some things, you just gotta shake your head and say WTH?

    And, then I wonder to myself, after a couple of racist remarks, where are these administrators that are so strict on certain rules and people like Matrix and told him not to say that only one dancer is the best because that's antagonizing other posters. :lol:
     
  10. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    Even though this is not my room to moderate I will say that several posts in this discussion disappoint me deeply. I would gladly ask everyone to refrain from posting and quoting such pointless and inflammatory racial slurs. I do believe we are better than that around here.
     
  11. saludas

    saludas New Member

    Sorry - bad syntax choice for me. My apologies.

    Should read "only Chinese people would speak Chinese"....
     
  12. Sagitta

    Sagitta Well-Known Member

    If you notice something please do contact the moderators. We are people with lives and with such a large forum we are not always around. Secondly, as you now know saludas has rephrased what was said. Before blowing things out of proportion it is helpful to contact the person who has upset/bothered you. For instance, if I was helloman I would have pm'd saludas and told her what bothered me. Why make it public straight away before speaking directly to the person? (This is asuuming that helloman did not do so.) There are many times when what a person has said has upset me personally and after pm'ing the person we have come to an agreement of how to communicate what needs to be said without causing me any offense.

    If saludas did not respond to the request then I would have informed a moderator. If you don't want to go to the effort of clarifying communication then simply inform the moderators and give them some time to work it out. I say this as it has happened many times people ask you to help and expect that there be instant gratification.

    We all make the forums what we want it to be. Commenting on lack of moderator involvement without contacting moderators is not very productive. Neither is simply commenting on what is perceived as racial language.
     
  13. Sabor

    Sabor New Member

    i wana be a moderator so i can delete posts! :p
     
  14. SDsalsaguy

    SDsalsaguy Administrator Staff Member

    :doh:
     
  15. latindia

    latindia New Member

    Well, I think it's good that you are pointing this out, but we probably shouldn't be so quick to take offence at such usage. Such terms acquire racist connotations owing to specific usages and specific history in particular parts of the world, and so may not be derogatory in other parts.

    For example, 'Paki' which is an abusive term in the UK for South Asians is quite routinely used as short for Pakistani in many parts of the US, or in India/Pakistan without offensive connotations. Same goes for 'Jap', which has acquired derogatory status in the US owing to the WW2 treatment meted out to Japanese-Americans, but is a neutral, even 'cool' short form for Japanese in Japan or many other places. Same as 'Brit' for British.

    Given that we have people from all over the world here on these forums, I think both sides have to respect each others' point of view and intent behind the usage, and not try to over-impose culture-specific views of political correctness.

    BTW, I am curious, why is 'Chinaman' an offensive term? What's the history behind this?

    --
    Raj
     
  16. alemana

    alemana New Member

    while i think this is a worthy topic for discussion, it doesn't belong in this item.
     
  17. SalsaAmore

    SalsaAmore New Member

    Sagitta, come on now. If a horse wants to keep their blinders on, you do not go and touch those blinders unless you want to be kicked in the rear. You're a long-time member here. Some of us are not and are unfamiliar with the ideas and beliefs of some of the people here. There have been moderators involved, but did not understand the racial slur. Maybe you have more patience than I, but, when someone doesn't understand what a racial slur is and what is not, personally, I prefer not to PM them to educate them on what is proper and to show them how to do their job.

    Sometimes, if something is done in public, it needs to be addressed in public for other viewers to see. Also, some like yourself like the PM approach, others don't. One could feel it's confrontational and others may not.

    In any means, moderators have been watching and it's the prerogative of people like Helloman to take a stance and say, "Can't you people see what's happening here." I, for one, preferred not to take a stance on that particular racial slur because I sensed it was an innocent misuse of words. But, if moderators prefer to applaud and just overlook it. I'm by no means going to take them in a headlock and make them see what they don't see. It's rather pointless.

    Yes, this point is well taken.

    Raj, dear, just because you may not be familiar with this term, doesn't mean anyone is assuming or imposing cultural views. Helloman is familiar with the term and he's right it shouldn't be used because it is offensive. But, Saludas innocently misused the word so I just shook my head. The "Ch" word is offensive the same reason The "N" word is offensive because in the days of Chinese slavery and/or when immigrants were entering the country, the white man used this term in a deragatory way to belittle and demean Asians. There is probably more history to this, but that's the gist of it. It's for the historians to elaborate more if they wish.

    BTW, if the Japanese want to use the "J" word as a cute expression within their own community, it's their choice. The same goes with the "N" word in the Black community. But, anyone outside of these communities should not use it, because then, you will be using it in a racist context, just a little insight for you. :wink:

    Okay, shall we get back on topic, now that this is cleared up?
     
  18. latindia

    latindia New Member

    SalsaAmore, thanks for your response and the insight ;) But you miss my point entirely. I agree that ignorance cannot be an excuse for being disrespectful. My point is only that there is very little or nothing that is intrinsically racist about these words (except the 'N' word, which, in my knowledge, was specifically devised for racist purposes and is used mainly in the US). The other words may be used in another part of the world by **everybody**, both within and outside a community with no negative connotations.

    Is it that inconceivable that 'J**' is just a convenient short form for many people, like 'Brit'? There is nothing 'cute' about it. Unless one is Japanese American or in the US, there is nothing to indicate its evil nature.

    You may accuse me of being ignorant of the disrespectful connotation of words in the US, and I may equally accuse you of being ignorant of the neutral connotation in other places. Who would be right? I dunno...

    The internet being the international phenomenon that it is, I think we all still have to figure out how to reconcile these differences without offending and hurting each other.

    --
    Raj
     
  19. SalsaAmore

    SalsaAmore New Member

    Sometimes, if you don't want to see it, you just don't want to see it. This is an interntional forum and there are going to be plenty of people from different countries reading it. But, if you choose not understand what terms are derogatory to the people reading this board, it's your choice. And, if you choose to offend that one person from another culture that is reading it, it's your reasoning that well in my culture/country, it isn't offensive. My approach is I stay away from anything that I think sounds racist to even that one person reading it. And, if I'm ignorant in that area then, thank you for a Helloman to wake me up to it.

    However, many professional, educated, sensitive people who meet others from different cultures choose to learn what is offensive in that culture so as to not offend and be polite. They do not take the stance that "Well, this is an international meeting of the minds and what I say may be offensive, but hey in another country it is not, so I'm just going to say it anyway." :roll: :lol: :wink:

    Now, let's get back on topic, please.
     
  20. DanceMentor

    DanceMentor Administrator

    Some words have been used often enough historically, and there is enough precedent, that they are "known" racial slurs. There are enough words available in the language without needing to use these.

    Please do not discuss issues of moderation in the public forum. Rather, talk to a moderator. As you can see, this topic is becoming less useful to the reader, because we are off topic.
     

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