Dance Articles > Banning Same Sex Partners could be Illegal

Discussion in 'Dance Articles' started by DanceMentor, Jul 15, 2014.

  1. DanceMentor

    DanceMentor Administrator

  2. ajiboyet

    ajiboyet Well-Known Member

    I do not believe that it is possible to judge a mixed-sex couple objectively against a same-sex couple. I do not have a problem with same-sex couples; I just think they need their own category.
    MaggieMoves likes this.
  3. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    Agreed. Some things should just be left alone. In Arg Tango circles, the same sex couples dance in an exhibition or showcase category, but the basic mixed pair comps are for mixed pairs, and there's nothign wrong with that.

    Now, as for the legality of banning such, I think we should ban political correctness.
  4. Squall

    Squall Member

    Well, in that article:

    Is mixed doubles possibly illegal then?
  5. Siggav

    Siggav Active Member

    I think it's utter nonsense to restrict who can compete based on gender and how they're partnered. Now I dance in the swing dance family where people dancing both roles is pretty common and there aren't any rules on gender regarding what role you dance or compete in.

    I've competed both as a lead and as a follow and I really enjoyed both. I would be very sad if either of those options were taken away
    twnkltoz likes this.
  6. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    They have had them in the U.K. for many moons ... but, Ladies only .
  7. twnkltoz

    twnkltoz Well-Known Member

    Why does it have to be such a big deal to let same sex partners compete with everyone else? Either your technique is good or it's not. Either you have musicality or you don't. I've seen some same sex couples to very well in WCS competition...the genders shouldn't matter.
  8. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    That argument has been used in Golf tournaments. Recently, a lady did compete in such an event, and did not disgrace herself .
  9. Generalist

    Generalist Active Member

    I would not enter Jack and Jills if I knew that I could be matched up with another man.
    JoeB likes this.
  10. Lioness

    Lioness Well-Known Member

    Why is that? I think that's more of a reflection on you than on same-sex couples.
  11. Bailamosdance

    Bailamosdance Well-Known Member

    Is it because you only know the mans part? Or are you afraid of touching another man lol...

    Seriously, why does your not wanting to enter a competition where you might wind up with a same sex partner have any relevance here?
    Rhythmdancer and Lioness like this.
  12. Generalist

    Generalist Active Member

    I only lead, but of course in a J&J that doesn't matter. I prefer not to touch men in the intimate ways I touch women and that would have a negative attitude on my dance. Competitions are tough enough without having to worry about gender issues.

    I have danced with men before, both socially and when I have male instructors. Men just don't feel the same as women when they follow -- even if they are better dancers than a lady at the same level. I don't need that going on when I'm competing.

    The real relevance is this: the vast majority of men dance because they want to dance with women. In most parts of the country men simply will not enter J&Js if there is an expectation that they might end up with a same sex partner.

    I have talked to many women if they enjoy dancing with other women. For the most part they are ambivalent but they almost always say that it feels different. I suspect women wouldn't want same sex partners either.

    It seems to me that dance competitions are emphasizing athleticism more than technique, so male couples would have a competitive advantage in many of the contests.

    Yes, very relevant and it's a very bad idea except for a few novelty events in places like San Francisco.
    JoeB likes this.
  13. Bailamosdance

    Bailamosdance Well-Known Member

    I have no words…..

    Well, actually, I DO have words. But I have to ask this: Where did you get your information about men in 'most parts of the country'? And what does San Francisco have to do with this discussion?
    dncergrl, rain_dog and Lioness like this.
  14. Lioness

    Lioness Well-Known Member

    So women said one thing but you assumed they meant something else?

    As a woman who's danced with both men and women, yeah it feels different. Extra boobs, etc...that doesn't bother me, and most of the women I've danced with have been didn't bother them either.

    A lot of the different feel is because women who lead usually aren't used to it, but when I've danced with a woman who was a full-time lead, there was no difference in feeling to dancing with a man.

    Also, if you're dancing with women in such intimate ways that you couldn't do the same with a man, you may want to rethink the amount of intimacy that you're dancing with, and whether your female partners are comfortable with it.
    twnkltoz and Bailamosdance like this.
  15. Generalist

    Generalist Active Member

    I'm a man. Remember?
  16. Lioness

    Lioness Well-Known Member

    Most of the men I've met are capable of treating women like they mean what they say...
  17. Generalist

    Generalist Active Member

    Even basics with a man can feel sort of gross. Here are a few I would really not feel comfortable doing with men: starter step, cuddle position, sweetheart position, basket whips, hip checks, shadow sways, barrel rolls (especially with extended butt rubbing, dips etc. Perhaps the worst one would be rag dolls (I could seriously hurt a guy with this one), and it would be gross for onlookers.
  18. RiseNFall

    RiseNFall Well-Known Member

    I am perfectly happy to dance with a woman leader. Somebody will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that it is standard in Lindy Jack and Jills for people to be able to enter a Jack and Jill as either a leader or a follower and some people enter both at different levels. Most WCS events do not allow that, but a few do.

    I really don't think that that is true. Athleticism without technique would be useless and at the higher levels there are other factors as well (musicality, artistry…).

    Another thread here persuaded me that there would be issues judging ballroom with same sex couples combined with mixed gender couples, though the collegiate competitions manage it just fine. With a mixed gender couple, part of what you are looking at is contracts, and that is lost to a certain extent with same sex couples. I do not feel that way at all about WCS J&J however--I think we've all seen excellent WCS with same sex couples, or at least I have. I personally think it's too bad that WCS J&J are restricted to male leaders and female followers… and I've never heard women complain about the idea of it, it's always guys who are uncomfortable dancing with other guys.

    Around here, it's typical anytime there are a few more men than women in a class for some of the men to follow (not that that happens all that often). The same guys probably wouldn't ask each other for a social dance, but I don't think they would have an issue dancing with a guy in a J&J.

    Generalist, you are uncomfortable dancing with a guy, so be it. I just didn't want to let some of the other things that you said stand without comment (your assumption that women wouldn't want to dance with other women, competitions being more about athleticism than technique, and that you assume that the vast majority of men--outside of San Francisco, of course--agree with you).
    Siggav likes this.
  19. Siggav

    Siggav Active Member

    Yeah I competed as both as a lead and follow in a jack and jill at the same event (this was blues), one in newcomers, the other in open. And sure it feels different dancing with men and women, most of the men I have lead are not experienced follows so they can be a bit harder to lead etc. but it's all fun.

    Leading men who seriously work on their following is a whole different kettle of fish again, and it's the same with following women, you can tell if someone is kinda dabbling vs. really wanting to dance in the role
  20. FancyFeet

    FancyFeet Well-Known Member

    Generalist, it's absolutely fine if you don't want to be part of a same-sex partnership, and as far as I have read, no one is asking you to. Competitions should be an enjoyable experience. That doesn't mean that it isn't what others find would contribute to their enjoyable experience though.

    I've been giving some periodic thought to whether I'd be open to entering small am-am competitions as a lead. I prefer to dance as a follow with a male lead, but I don't have an am partner at the moment, can't afford to compete pro-am as often as I'd like, know how to lead all of the pre-bronze and most of the bronze figures in standard, and dance at a studio where a lot of beginning follows are partner-less, can't afford pro-am, and are intrigued by the idea of competing. My mind is nowhere near made up, but I am thinking about it. We also have a female pro that is completely open to having competitive female pro-am students - which is allowed under the rules, with a few restrictions on age + level.

    (Oh, and if you touch me in an intimate way during a dance, you wouldn't be dancing with me either. And might get punched. Just saying.)
    Sania, RiseNFall and Siggav like this.

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