Tango Argentino > Videos > Can some one explain to me.....

Discussion in 'Videos' started by barrefly, Aug 22, 2009.

  1. barrefly

    barrefly New Member

    Ever since my daughter's first few tango privates, I'm been wanting to get a clip of her. The first few classes, she looked really good. It was a faster, more showy tango. Then, it changed to very slow, almost lyrical tango. Her instructor even has her warming up, dancing with napkins under her feet.

    I've video taped her last 3 lessons and could see nothing worth posting. It seems like her instructor is telling her, "I've made you look good with the first few lessons,...now, I am going to teach you to dance".

    I have searched for "slow tango"...but even those clips get beat up with low ratings.
    Here is the only clip of a slow tango that I could find, that has decent ratings.

    Does anyone have any comments regarding this? Does anyone have any links to really good slow tango clips.
    The clip I took of my daughter, today, is as slow as the clip I've linked. You can see every single mistake she made, like looking under a microscope.

    Anyway, thanks in advance.
  2. Ampster

    Ampster Active Member

    Dancing fast is easy because you can hide mistakes by blurring it with lots of motion. It's also the reason why some people like dancing fast and flashy. It's forgiving of mistakes such as bad posture, wrong timing, at least some people think so... it's also the reason it becomes trashy.

    In contrast, dancing slow tango is always so much harder because you get to see everything. That's when real talent comes out. If you can dance a slow tango and make it look good and grab the audience while your at it. This is where that "Connection" thing makes itself apparent. I'm talking about a deep soulful connection by the partners to each other.

    I wasn't too impressed with that clip. It looked like they just strung together a lot of steps. The execution also needed some work. I felt cold and lifeless. BTW, my opinion is based on someone who dances AT. Had I not known AT, I probably would think better of it.

    Here's a slow tango. One of my favorites by the late Carlos Gavito and Marcela Duran

    [YT]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/v246c8wP6_0&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/v246c8wP6_0&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YT]
  3. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    guilty ?

    Hi barrely, I like the vid of Jesica and Gustavo.

    But, it is a choreography, its show tango. But, that level of show tango I just like, b.c it is far away from these styled and flashy TV-ready emotions we find at dancing with the stars etc. I like couples that decide to dance in a bit old-fashioned way, although they could stand in the beam of the headlight doing more fashionable stuff.

    TA is an improvised dance. But, can you really improvise at the push of a botton, if someone asks you to show TA to 50 people staring at you. So I browsed YT, found this vid and leaned a great deal by heart.

    You may accuse me of treason, now :bkick:

    Another example of a slow piece I worked on is Oblivion by Claudia and Jean from Paris, but this is Nuevo, or Neo style resp. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBXckflFSDs

    (@Ampster : I´m not yet ready to work on a choreography of Gavito. As a start I figured out the Gavito Base, remember? Although I think Gavito is a great entertainer and choreograph, his bigness lies in his styling and not in his steps.)
  4. bastet

    bastet Active Member

    I saw that clip you posted when I was still pretty new to tango and liked it well enough at the time but now I can see lots of problems with it.

    this one's slow- and I thought fairly well done. Not overly showy. The steps are necessarily large for performance, but not overly showy (lift, jumps, drops, boleos and ganchos out the yin-yang etc).


    though a word of advice- you might cut yourselves some slack. People aren't kidding when they say AT takes time, no matter how much dance training you've had before. I generally try to tell people to enjoy where they are at, you'll only be there once (no matter how many times you go back), get the most you can out of it and try to understand and enjoy too.
  5. bastet

    bastet Active Member

    arg- duplicate
  6. barrefly

    barrefly New Member

    Thankyou everyone for your posts and clips. I will show her them tonight after her day of dance training.

    My daughter is very patient,...it's me that's the problem. I've already solicited a pro. (artistic director) that is interested in working with her on show tango and they said that they want her to try out next year, for their Tango troupe that tours the U.S. Looking at their clips, she would fit right in.
    That is something a parent could be proud of, if they did not know what authentic, world class tango dance was.

    Therefore, she will probably be split between the 2 tango worlds. (...as if she is'nt spread out enough already). Commercially speaking, the company gig would be great for her resume,...but the other (current) is crucial for her Tango dancing.
    She has an interest to be a choreographer for stage/film/television. (...but she is still young and that could change).

    Also, I can see already that she will eventually have to start working with both a lead and follow. Her current pro. (lead only) really can't see the mistakes she is making while they are dancing. Fortunatly, as we were leaving yesterday, his partner walked in an corrected one of her moves. There is another move, that involves a foot flex, that I know she is doing wrong....but her pro. can only feel how she is doing and can't really see it.

    I would so much love to post the clip,...but that would not be wise. I am soooo open to criticism until I could find a couple that really are the best,...whom would want to work with my daughter. I have a feeling that I will need to send her to Buenos Aires for this. Perhaps in a couple of years.
  7. Lilly_of_the_valley

    Lilly_of_the_valley Well-Known Member

  8. barrefly

    barrefly New Member

    I guess I started this thread in hopes of determining if my daughter is getting good training. I just talked with an instructor from L.A. (She teaches social dancing). She was so nice and gave me a great deal of her time. I think that what I have learned from her is that, if you train in L.A.,...you get L.A. training. LOL She gave me a bunch of dancers to research. One was Miguel Zotto and from the "noche de tango" clip above, I can see why.

    Thankyou everyone. I will take a day at a time and try to sort it all out.
  9. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    If you're concerned about getting her good training, perhaps go to a few milongas and ask around. Who is considered the best dancer in the area/scene? Who did they learn from? If you do this a few times, in a few locations, I'm sure a few names will come up again and again. Watch, learn, and be patient.

    After that, have your daughter take lessons. Even if you/she wants to go the performance route, she is still going to need a solid grounding in the fundamental technique. NOT flash'n'trash; as the name says, it's trash. A good teacher of social dancing will give her the fundamental techniques just fine. After she knows the basic technique, then learning the show stuff (since you say she's pretty good with that to begin with) should be a comparatively easy add-on.

    But a degree of patience is going to be key. Just because she's accomplished in other dances doesn't mean she'll be able to waltz right in and master things. It.takes.time. And spending time on the fundamentals is the only way she's going to truly become good. Perhaps that's not the goal...although that would be a real shame. You and she will both have to learn some humility in the process.

    As for a teacher not being able to correct things because they can only feel and not see... Yeah, some things can be corrected by watching. Presumably that is taken care of with mirrors around the studio. But IME, a skilled teacher can pick up on plenty of issues by feel. Plenty. And then some.

    And, yes, while her fast tango might look OK...if her slow tango isn't looking good it's because her technique isn't up to par. Slow is infinitely harder to make good, because there's no hiding mistakes.
  10. DancingMommy

    DancingMommy Active Member

    What Peaches said. 8)
  11. barrefly

    barrefly New Member

    Thanks Peaches,
    Yesterday, I took my daughter to a 2 hr. social dance class. The instructor was wonderful and gave me a great deal of advice.
    The instructor seemed to really care about my concerns and did not patronize me in the least. She gave me many names of dancers to research and which ones she thought I should try to get my daughter with. (Of course, this means training in Buenos Aires). These were world class Argentinian dancers, so, she must have been at least somewhat impressed by my daughter. How many instructors would give someone that they don't know, that much time and advice?

    I asked her, if during the class, she could take the time to evaluate my daughter. Apparently, I did not need to ask. She was all over the dancers, giving every single one, her pesonally attention. She recognized were my daughter came from as a dancer and made some very accurate observations and explained them to me. Wow,...how many group instructors would take the time to do that.

    Ironically, many years ago, I tried to have my daughter (very young at the time) take one of her classes. She basically booted me from the studio. I had to wait 4 yrs before my daughter was old enough. I say, ironically because I can see that the instructor would be great with kids. It's just that she has her ethics (unlike some instructors?) about putting kids with adults.

    Back to the thread....
    What I am discovering is,....though my daughter is a wonderful student and technical dancer,....she will not discover the true beauty of A.T. until she discovers her passion for A.T. Hopefully, viewing the clips that everyone has shared, will awaken her passion for A.T.

    Thankyou for your replies.
  12. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    and another http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srvWw1_qv0A

    Juan and Graciana dance to - Villurca; Yira
  13. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Actually, I wouldn't say that that's accurate. There are plenty of exceptional AT dancers and teachers all over the world.
  14. Ampster

    Ampster Active Member

    I agree with Peaches. Yes, that is very true.

    Case in point, there is a couple in California who concentrate on technique. They tour the world to teach and are very good in what they do.
  15. barrefly

    barrefly New Member

    Peaches, that was my ignorance speaking. Of course there is. I think that I was meaning that the best A.T. dancers in the world are not from the U.S. or, are unlikely to be setting up shop here in L.A., (in the U.S.?) unless you qualify Miriam and Leonardo. The topic was even brought up with the instructor. The question is..."Does anyone beleive that one can be a world class A.T. dancer, with training solely in the U.S".

    I think that this would be a hot topic and perhaps a seperate thread should be started.

    Added: Ampster, for my education, could you share who this Cal. couple is? Whom and where did they study? Would you put them in the same class as Milena Plebs, Natacha Poberaj, Miguel Zotto, Carlos Copella, Andrea Misse and the others, mentioned in this thread?
  16. Ampster

    Ampster Active Member

    Carlos and Mayte are based in Seattle. Jorge Torres is based in NY. All great dancers and instructors. Jorge is the current "Dance Captain" for the touring company of "Forever Tango." Carlos and Mayte (and Jorge) are contemporaries of Miriam and Leonardo.

    For technique and foundation. In SF, try Jennifer Bratt and Ney Melo.

    As a comparison, dancing with Jennifer and Miriam in a milonga are very much on par. Each with their own distinct signatures. Both beautiful to dance with.

    The names you've enumerated above have one thing in common...Show tango. As I (and others) have said master the basics first. The choreography is easy and can come later.
  17. barrefly

    barrefly New Member

    I enjoyed this clip. I especially enjoyed Graciana and her moves. However, there was something about there dancing that seems a bit different then the other clips. Where are Juan and Graciana from?
  18. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    I understood your meaning. I disagree with your assessment.

    1) Being from BsAs does not confer extraordinary ability. Period.
    2) A lot of fabulous teachers from BsAs have set up shop, so to speak, at various places throughout the world.
    3) There are plenty of "world class" teachers throughout the United States. More in some places (NY and Seattle come to mind) than in others (BFE), of course.

    "The best AT dancers in the world" is a subjective measure, at best. There are plenty of very good teachers, even if not recognized as "the best in the world," everywhere. Look for a solid grounding in technique in social dancing (fundamental technique is fundamental technique is fundamental technique...the show stuff uses the same technique, with add-ons for tricks). Ignore someone billing themselves as "the best in the world." The first question upon hearing that needs to be, "According to whom?" The AT world is too varied for that sort of stuff.

    Get her a good social teacher who will focus on fundamental technique. I'm sure you can find that in California. Or, failing that...hell, Seattle is closer and I'm sure there's got to be great teachers there. Forget this focus on BsAs.
  19. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Oh, I didn't realize Ney and Jennifer are in SF now. (Last I knew, they were in NY. Damn!)

    Barrefly, Ney and Jennifer are fantastic dancers, and incredible teachers. (I have not had the chance to have private lessons, but have had a seminar with him.) You can't go wrong with them.

    And...not from BsAs.
  20. barrefly

    barrefly New Member

    Thankyou Ampster,
    It's assuring to know that I don't have to ship my daughter to B.A. for her to get good training.

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